.

[Edited 10/10/17 21:36pm]

I don't know much about who gets credit for what in song writing, but it sounds like Prince wrote most of the song and Mark helped with the arrangement ...but if P said he would put Marks name on that song ,then he should have

80tomato said:

I don't know much about who gets credit for what in song writing, but it sounds like Prince wrote most of the song and Mark helped with the arrangement ...but if P said he would put Marks name on that song ,then he should have

David Z said that song started with Prince and ended with Prince. I have heard the original song by Mazariti and it is awful. Anyway we know why Prince was where he was and the reason why Mark is were he is today.

Simpley about a person with vision and person who is a half a step behind.

At the end of the day Prince was the boss and it was Prince’s band which he still cannot seem to get this through his skull. He was an employee and obviously he was not unhappy with his musicianship if he wanted him to stay in the band but Mark cannot let it go and it is laughable to say he does not dwell in the negative. What is he doing in this interview?

OH and I like the demo version of the song just fine.

--

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2004/09/tuesday-is-prince-day-pt-3-how-kiss.html

This is from David Z.

[Edited 10/11/17 7:35am]

laurarichardson said:

I learned so much from Prince

A lot of people don't realized how much

I learned from that guy

Who I am today is because of him

my openess etc

I didn't realize Morris Hayes came to Prince through BrownMarks 1989 a band Finger Print (from Tenesse

.

BANG BANG reminds me that a lot of music Prince did for people had a strong feel of a mix of 1984-1987... thinking of Love Song (Madonna) too

.

the grounds of the Kiss demo is from a 1930s song...

Strawberrylova123 said:

laurarichardson said:

David Z said that song started with Prince and ended with Prince. I have heard the original song by Mazariti and it is awful. Anyway we know why Prince was where he was and the reason why Mark is were he is today.

Simpley about a person with vision and person who is a half a step behind.

At the end of the day Prince was the boss and it was Prince’s band which he still cannot seem to get this through his skull. He was an employee and obviously he was not unhappy with his musicianship if he wanted him to stay in the band but Mark cannot let it go and it is laughable to say he does not dwell in the negative. What is he doing in this interview?

OH and I like the demo version of the song just fine.

--

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2004/09/tuesday-is-prince-day-pt-3-how-kiss.html

This is from David Z.

[Edited 10/11/17 7:35am]

Yeah but he didn't deserve or the others didn't deserve the treatment they got from P, no matter how people try to defend his behavior. Mark should've gotten credit for kiss, that was screwed up that he never gotten paid for the song.

It is not about what you deserve it is about what is in your contract. The band was hired hands and if they had nothing in writing saying they would receive royalties then why would you expect to just get it all of sudden. Remember by the time Parade came along Mark and been around for 5 years if he did not receive royalties in the past or had not signed any sort of agreement why would he think things would be different. Everybody has to be responsible for handling their own affairs and it seems that even when he went to Motown he still mishandled his affairs by telling the label what he was going to do and not do!

I also would like to know what happened to the 1 million dollar bonus the Revolution received after the Purple Rain tour was over?

I am not saying Prince was perfect but at the end of the day he was the one putting in the work and the one with the recording contract not Mark. If you want friends business is not always the place to look for them the best thing to do is to get a dog.

I wish him a lot of luck with his book since it seems he was sitting back for 10 years waiting for Prince to die so he could get it out without being sued.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I didn't realize Morris Hayes came to Prince through BrownMarks 1989 a band Finger Print (from Tenesse

.

BANG BANG reminds me that a lot of music Prince did for people had a strong feel of a mix of 1984-1987... thinking of Love Song (Madonna) too

.

the grounds of the Kiss demo is from a 1930s song...

What song would that be exactly? It sounds like any traditional blues song played on an acoustic guitar which despite Mark's nonsense actually sounds really good and Prince would perform songs acoustic years later in concert and people loved it.

The song actually reminds me of the song "Player" but I bet Mark wrote that as well. I cannot understand someone complaining about getting paid for working on a song that they did not write the lyrics to and in the end a whole another arrangement was used. Mark did not even fish this song out of the trash it was handed to him by Prince to work on.

[Edited 10/11/17 8:51am]

How much of the credit? All of it?

Strawberrylova123 said:

laurarichardson said:

David Z said that song started with Prince and ended with Prince. I have heard the original song by Mazariti and it is awful. Anyway we know why Prince was where he was and the reason why Mark is were he is today.

Simpley about a person with vision and person who is a half a step behind.

At the end of the day Prince was the boss and it was Prince’s band which he still cannot seem to get this through his skull. He was an employee and obviously he was not unhappy with his musicianship if he wanted him to stay in the band but Mark cannot let it go and it is laughable to say he does not dwell in the negative. What is he doing in this interview?

OH and I like the demo version of the song just fine.

--

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2004/09/tuesday-is-prince-day-pt-3-how-kiss.html

This is from David Z.

[Edited 10/11/17 7:35am]

Yeah but he didn't deserve or the others didn't deserve the treatment they got from P, no matter how people try to defend his behavior. Mark should've gotten credit for kiss, that was screwed up that he never gotten paid for the song.

I have heard the demo too. The way people on here and Brown talked about it, I thought it would suck or not resemble the final product. It doesn't suck and it does resemble the final product. (less funky obviously.) I have heard the mazarati version. The groove is cool but the singing sucks.

1930's song? So prince not only stole from mazarati and mark brown but also some 1930's tin-pan alley or blues composer? Wait a minute-- Ithought prince only knew his own music and music he heard on AM Radio in Mineapolis before the Revolution introduced him to culture. Sorry I am in a snarky mood.

Prince should have given him some credit on the instrumentation (maybe writing if he contributed part of the melody or verse) but I fear what Brown will write about. The dude is inconsistent in his sentiments. In one interview stating he would rather remember the good about Prince and using generic accolades about his influence on him ; in another interview, stating he's going to write a book and dissing about the Kiss demo.

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I didn't realize Morris Hayes came to Prince through BrownMarks 1989 a band Finger Print (from Tenesse

.

BANG BANG reminds me that a lot of music Prince did for people had a strong feel of a mix of 1984-1987... thinking of Love Song (Madonna) too

.

the grounds of the Kiss demo is from a 1930s song...

What sound would that be exactly. It sounds like any traditional blues song played on an acoustic guitar which despite Mark's nonsense actually sounds really good and Prince would perform songs acoustic years later in concert and people loved it.

The song actually reminds me of the song "Player" but I bet Mark wrote that as well.

[Edited 10/11/17 8:55am]

purplerabbithole said:

I have heard the demo too. The way people on here and Brown talked about it, I thought it would suck or not resemble the final product. It doesn't suck and it does resemble the final product. (less funky obviously.) I have heard the mazarati version. The groove is cool but the singing sucks.

1930's song? So prince not only stole from mazarati and mark brown but also some 1930's tin-pan alley or blues composer? Wait a minute-- Ithought prince only knew his own music and music he heard on AM Radio in Mineapolis before the Revolution introduced him to culture. Sorry I am in a snarky mood.

Prince should have given him some credit on the instrumentation (maybe writing if he contributed part of the melody or verse) but I fear what Brown will write about. The dude is inconsistent in his sentiments. In one interview stating he would rather remember the good about Prince and using generic accolades about his influence on him ; in another interview, stating he's going to write a book and dissing about the Kiss demo.

laurarichardson said:

What sound would that be exactly. It sounds like any traditional blues song played on an acoustic guitar which despite Mark's nonsense actually sounds really good and Prince would perform songs acoustic years later in concert and people loved it.

The song actually reminds me of the song "Player" but I bet Mark wrote that as well.

[Edited 10/11/17 8:55am]

I do not think he contributed anything because outside of being acoustic how is it any different then the finished product. If anything it is David Z that deserved credit. Prince simply took the project from him and he is still pissed because he is not getting royalties off anything he did at Motown.

He also needs to stop contradicting himself because he sound like he is a little off his wheel.

why would he want all the credit?

purplerabbithole said:

How much of the credit? All of it?

Strawberrylova123 said:

laurarichardson said: Yeah but he didn't deserve or the others didn't deserve the treatment they got from P, no matter how people try to defend his behavior. Mark should've gotten credit for kiss, that was screwed up that he never gotten paid for the song.

the poster stated "Mark Brown should have gotten credit for Kiss". I was asking if they could be more specific? HOw should it have been credited and why?

OldFriends4Sale said:

why would he want all the credit?

purplerabbithole said:

How much of the credit? All of it?

[Edited 10/11/17 9:17am]

I keep reading about this 1 million dollar Purple rain bonus for each of the members of the Revolution ...is there a source for this

purplerabbithole said:

purplerabbithole said:

HOw much credit should Mark have gotten according to what you are hearing from Mark was what i was asking. David Z was also there and he said it began and ended with PRince? Writing is determined by melody and lyrics?--not production. It was sourced to Prince and the Revolution on the LP (not the single unfortunately). Was Mark not in the Revolution? when he left the Revolutin, why didn't he sue for royalties. It worked when tony and Levi did it for their contributions on Sexy M.F> and the problem was solved at the time.

Strawberrylova123 said:

purplerabbithole said:

the poster stated "Mark Brown should have gotten credit for Kiss". I was asking if they could be more specific? HOw should it have been credited and why?

[Edited 10/11/17 9:17am]

Mark is the source..he was there

]

[Edited 10/11/17 9:29am]

purplerabbithole said:

Stay on topic. We know P's history with Do Me Baby and this Kiss thing has been discussed before. Mark constructed the song and then P wrote the melody and lyrics based on an instrumental? Is that what you and he are implying? Giving credit for playing on a song, or producing or arranging is not the same thing as writing (legally). When Prince played Kiss live, he doesn't use the Mazarati instrumentals...so whose song is it then?

Strawberrylova123 said:

purplerabbithole said:

HOw much credit should Mark have gotten according to what you are hearing from Mark was what i was asking. David Z was also there and he said it began and ended with PRince? Writing is determined by melody and lyrics?--not production. It was sourced to Prince and the Revolution on the LP (not the single unfortunately). Was Mark not in the Revolution? when he left the Revolutin, why didn't he sue for royalties. It worked when tony and Levi did it for their contributions on Sexy M.F> and the problem was solved at the time.

]

[Edited 10/11/17 9:29am]

He should have gotten paid! He never recived any money for his contributions. Prince wrote the melody and the lyrics to kiss but it was mark who constructed the song! Prince had a history of not giving credit to other's ,Do me baby is another example. [Edited 10/11/17 9:43am]

[Edited 10/11/17 9:48am]

[Edited 10/11/17 9:51am]

purplerabbithole said:

No the song exsisted before Mark came along and Do Me Baby is "Frantic Moment" by Eddie Hazel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej41zcmRfPg

I just heard this acoustic version today and now I have no use for Mark and his stories.

purplerabbithole said:

Stay on topic. We know P's history with Do Me Baby and this Kiss thing has been discussed before. Mark constructed the song and then P wrote the melody and lyrics based on an instrumental? Is that what you and he are implying? Giving credit for playing on a song, or producing or arranging is not the same thing as writing (legally). When Prince played Kiss live, he doesn't use the Mazarati instrumentals...so whose song is it then?

Strawberrylova123 said:

purplerabbithole said: He should have gotten paid! He never recived any money for his contributions. Prince wrote the melody and the lyrics to kiss but it was mark who constructed the song! Prince had a history of not giving credit to other's ,Do me baby is another example. [Edited 10/11/17 9:43am]

[Edited 10/11/17 9:48am]

[Edited 10/11/17 9:51am]

Strawberrylova123 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Stay on topic. We know P's history with Do Me Baby and this Kiss thing has been discussed before. Mark constructed the song and then P wrote the melody and lyrics based on an instrumental? Is that what you and he are implying?

[Edited 10/11/17 9:48am]

Bringing up do me, baby is staying on topic because the discussion is about song credit, you just don't want to admit it that prince had a history for not giving his bandmates credit when credit is due.and mark reconstructed kiss completely compared to the original demo. Mark should've gotten credit for constructing the song.

Are you having a hearing problem? That is the same song with out the acoustic guitar and the added echo that was done by David Z. Then Prince came back and rearranged whatever Mark did do.

If he had tried to sue he would have lost since he did not create anything from scratch. If anything he should have been credited just out of kindness for helping out but his efforts are not that of a creator and suspect that is the reason he did not give him credit.

I bet he just did not feel he contributed enough to the song and Mark had no written agreement to be a co-writer.

I never disputed you on do Me Baby and I do believe that he has a shoddy history at times but that doesn't mean this issue can't be discussed with a bit more maturity. What does constructed even mean? So if Prince does an interpretation of Come Together by the Beatles like he did ten years ago on stage (when it was re-arranged as a country swing type song) and records its, it is now a Prince song? The melody to Kiss is in that demo. Its the same except a little slower (same notes) . Mark deserves some credit. I am not sure its writing credit that we are talking about though.

Strawberrylova123 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Stay on topic. We know P's history with Do Me Baby and this Kiss thing has been discussed before. Mark constructed the song and then P wrote the melody and lyrics based on an instrumental? Is that what you and he are implying?

[Edited 10/11/17 9:48am]

Bringing up do me, baby is staying on topic because the discussion is about song credit, you just don't want to admit it that prince had a history for not giving his bandmates credit when credit is due.and mark reconstructed kiss completely compared to the original demo. Mark should've gotten credit for constructing the song.

[Edited 10/11/17 10:02am]

laurarichardson said:

The "arrangement" is different. So he deserves credit for arrangement or production then. The notes and melody are not different. . And don't accuse me of shit. That's a straw man argument.

Strawberrylova123 said:

laurarichardson said:

Are you having a hearing problem? That is the same song with out the acoustic guitar and the added echo that was done by David Z. Then Prince came back and rearranged whatever Mark did do.

If he had tried to sue he would have lost since he did not create anything from scratch. If anything he should have been credited just out of kindness for helping out but his efforts are not that of a creator and suspect that is the reason he did not give him credit.

I bet he just did not feel he contributed enough to the song and Mark had no written agreement to be a co-writer.

The songs arrangement is completely different and you know it, you just don't want to admit that prince was wrong with not giving people credit when credit is due or him not paying his people. If you were being paid peanuts you wouldn't be happy.

purplerabbithole said:

Constructed means created. The orginal song which Mike Dean played is the original song that Mark is calling C&W Where is he hearing that I do not know. Prince gave him the song with the melody already in place.

I have heard the Mazarratti version which is awful and you have David Z saying it just was not working out at all. Prince came in and changed the arrangement and did the singing which to me makes the song.

Prince covering "Come Together " is just him covering a song in concert it has nothing to do with creating anything and he would never get credit for rearranging it.

The melody in that demo is Prince singing the original song. that is Prince singing the original song. Go back to 18.58 Mark is explaining how the song was on a cassette tape and how he did not like Prince' vocals or the fact that it sounded C&W but then he turns around and states that Prince ripped it off from some all blues song (WTH)! If he thinks it is ripped off from some other song how would have got credit for anything?

Anyway that demo has the same melody to my ears. Thus what did Mark create?

purplerabbithole said:

I never disputed you on do Me Baby and I do believe that he has a shoddy history at times but that doesn't mean this issue can't be discussed with a bit more maturity. What does constructed even mean? So if Prince does an interpretation of Come Together by the Beatles like he did ten years ago on stage (when it was re-arranged as a country swing type song) and records its, it is now a Prince song? The melody to Kiss is in that demo. Its the same except a little slower (same notes) . Mark deserves some credit. I am not sure its writing credit that we are talking about though.

Strawberrylova123 said:

purplerabbithole said: Bringing up do me, baby is staying on topic because the discussion is about song credit, you just don't want to admit it that prince had a history for not giving his bandmates credit when credit is due.and mark reconstructed kiss completely compared to the original demo. Mark should've gotten credit for constructing the song.

[Edited 10/11/17 10:02am]

[Edited 10/11/17 11:36am]

The song is not acoustic and has background vocals other then that how is it different? Mark could have received credit for producing but that would not have gotten him any money as a writer.

purplerabbithole said:

The "arrangement" is different. So he deserves credit for arrangement or production then. The notes and melody are not different. . And don't accuse me of shit. That's a straw man argument.

Strawberrylova123 said:

laurarichardson said: The songs arrangement is completely different and you know it, you just don't want to admit that prince was wrong with not giving people credit when credit is due or him not paying his people. If you were being paid peanuts you wouldn't be happy.