I don't think that anybody from any era of the bands should have a say on anything, related to the vault. They are over stepping their bounds.

PennyPurple said:

I don't think that anybody from any era of the bands should have a say on anything, related to the vault. They are over stepping their bounds.

I know it happens infrequently, but I completely agree with you about this. Neutral but knowledgeable parties only, I hope.

PennyPurple said:

Mumio said:

rogifan said:

Mumio said:

I know it happens infrequently, but I completely agree with you about this. Neutral but knowledgeable parties only, I hope.

Do you have an example?

No because I am not a knowledgeable party. But those who took part in making the music could be helpful, but I see anything beyond that as a conflict of interest type scenario.

donnyenglish said:

I do think ex band members/associates are good sources of knowledge. But we saw first hand that involving them does not always result in the best product with PR Rain Deluxe being a prime example. My main issue with the article is the clear agenda by some members of the Revolution to overstate their contributions. Prince quickly put people in their place while he was alive but now that he is gone they want to talk. I will always defend Prince's name. [Edited 8/6/17 5:54am]

Agree for the most part with what donnyenglish said here.

[Edited 8/6/17 8:21am]

Mumio said:

Thewooh said:

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the folks who were closest to him during any given era having input on vault releases...W&L for the 80s, whoever from the NPG, etc. Seems like W&L could say, "Prince was the best checkers player in the world!" and "diehard" Prince fans would be offended because, you know...they dont know what theyre talking about. Someone as "advanced" as Prince would obviously play chess rather than checkers.

UncleJam said:

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the folks who were closest to him during any given era having input on vault releases...W&L for the 80s, whoever from the NPG, etc. Seems like W&L could say, "Prince was the best checkers player in the world!" and "diehard" Prince fans would be offended because, you know...they dont know what theyre talking about. Someone as "advanced" as Prince would obviously play chess rather than checkers.

Hmmm. . . I am going along with most in this thread. I am sure the bandmates were not the only ones close to him and from what I see in ALL the bandmates is that they all have clear biases.

I would actually want someone not "close" to Prince but a person who is not Prince person but properly credentialed, a curator, to go in and catalogue what is there who would not have a need for agenda or need for history be rewritten or show favor. I do not want any of the bandmates and not Sheila E. either.

The bandmates all seem to have the need to tell "their story". At this point I want Prince's music and his associates music from the Vault and some of it ignored due to personal bias.

[Edited 8/6/17 12:16pm]

I think the best producer would be Steve Albini. He is in Chicago, and is a genius. Now, Prince's "genre" is not in his wheelhouse, but a great producer could make extraordinary music.

1Sasha said:

I think the best producer would be Steve Albini. He is in Chicago, and is a genius. Now, Prince's "genre" is not in his wheelhouse, but a great producer could make extraordinary music.

I do not think you need a curator in the wheelhouse exactly because Prince did it all,

Rock, Jazz, Funk,R&B, Pop, Gospel, Christian contemporary, Blues- Prince was a real musician and did it all.

Mumio said:

PennyPurple said:

I don't think that anybody from any era of the bands should have a say on anything, related to the vault. They are over stepping their bounds.

I know it happens infrequently, but I completely agree with you about this. Neutral but knowledgeable parties only, I hope.

Vashtix said:

donnyenglish said:

I do think ex band members/associates are good sources of knowledge. But we saw first hand that involving them does not always result in the best product with PR Rain Deluxe being a prime example. My main issue with the article is the clear agenda by some members of the Revolution to overstate their contributions. Prince quickly put people in their place while he was alive but now that he is gone they want to talk. I will always defend Prince's name. [Edited 8/6/17 5:54am]

Prince was swift in putting these people on notice and throwing the lawyers when lips started flapping. Now it's up to us, the fans to call out them out on the wrongs.

purplegirl00 said:

donnyenglish said:

I do think ex band members/associates are good sources of knowledge. But we saw first hand that involving them does not always result in the best product with PR Rain Deluxe being a prime example. My main issue with the article is the clear agenda by some members of the Revolution to overstate their contributions. Prince quickly put people in their place while he was alive but now that he is gone they want to talk. I will always defend Prince's name. [Edited 8/6/17 5:54am]

Prince was swift in putting these people on notice and throwing the lawyers when lips started flapping. Now it's up to us, the fans to call out them out on the wrongs.

No one is calling them out. People are just on message boards talking to each other.

Thewooh said:

I don't think ex-band members should have a say in the choice of vault material and they should not be allowed to tinker with the material. W&L, Bobby Z and others have shown clearly that they are mostly interested in furthering their own legacy. The would give priority to the material they themself eorked on and versions of songs featuring their own contributions. That COULD be the best material. But I would like someone else to be the judge of that.

Totally disagree.
These people were a part of the process.
They were a part of the direction and vision.

They would know better than anyone what would be great to release,

They would have the best input and promotion for each.

PennyPurple said:

I don't think that anybody from any era of the bands should have a say on anything, related to the vault. They are over stepping their bounds.

How could they be over stepping their bounds when they were a part of the music?

ESPECIALLY if they helped co-create or performed.

Why should some stranger to the times, especially someone not even born yet have their hands in it?

Thewooh said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

she was friends with Prince, he lived in their home when visiting, etc ie organically

1982 she was standing in on soundchecks, on set for Controversy videos, singing on Free & IB in the band officially 1983

You should know this

I do. And I don't think occasionally hanging around means much.

um they were friends from 1980-2016

OldFriends4Sale said:

donnyenglish said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Prince was asked to do the PR Reissue and he submitted it without the input of the Revolution and he involved Welton. Anything else we or anyone else has to say about it does not matter.

Yes it does matter. It will always matter.

that's why it's been killing me that Prince didn't leave a hint of a direction as to how the vault was to be curated, released, damaged tapes repaired/enhanced, which songs might be appropriate for commerical tie-ins, revised or augmented song writing or producing credits, etc. NADA...how glorious if even, outside of a will, there was a big note in his hand-writing on the vault wall saying "Wendy, Lisa, Dez, Sheila, 3rdEyeGirl, etc. were my trusted fellow musicians..turn to them for direction if I am not here."

OldFriends4Sale said:

Thewooh said:

I don't think ex-band members should have a say in the choice of vault material and they should not be allowed to tinker with the material. W&L, Bobby Z and others have shown clearly that they are mostly interested in furthering their own legacy. The would give priority to the material they themself eorked on and versions of songs featuring their own contributions. That COULD be the best material. But I would like someone else to be the judge of that.

Totally disagree.
These people were a part of the process.
They were a part of the direction and vision.

They would know better than anyone what would be great to release,

They would have the best input and promotion for each.

I respect all of this bands and what they brought to us via working with Prince .

.

I just think for true equity and care for generations to come it needs people who can go through it without anything else in mind but getting the great music out. I want to hear this gospel, his blues, along with unreleased Vanity 6, The Time, even his Christian stuff no matter feelings and emotions attached to the production and some things I am sure no one ever heard before.

.

As I said I really respect all his bands but for the vault I do not want to hear from them. They all have their own views on certain things and do not want that clouding or blocking the process not even purposely on their parts and I am speaking ALL the bands ALL. I am not singling out one.

rogifan said:

Vashtix said:

Hmmm. . . I am going along with most in this thread. I am sure the bandmates were not the only ones close to him and from what I see in ALL the bandmates is that they all have clear biases.

I would actually want someone not "close" to Prince but a person who is not Prince person but properly credentialed, a curator, to go in and catalogue what is there who would not have a need for agenda or need for history be rewritten or show favor. I do not want any of the bandmates and not Sheila E. either.

The bandmates all seem to have the need to tell "their story". At this point I want Prince's music and his associates music from the Vault and some of it ignored due to personal bias.

[Edited 8/6/17 12:16pm]

Who are you seeing this from besides The Revolution?

I have not searched it out I am saying ALL bands. I cannot single out the Revolution with this because I honestly feel all the bands should not have anything to do with what is released from the vault.

Vashtix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Totally disagree.
These people were a part of the process.
They were a part of the direction and vision.

They would know better than anyone what would be great to release,

They would have the best input and promotion for each.

I respect all of this bands and what they brought to us via working with Prince .

.

I just think for true equity and care for generations to come it needs people who can go through it without anything else in mind but getting the great music out. I want to hear this gospel, his blues, along with unreleased Vanity 6, The Time, even his Christian stuff no matter feelings and emotions attached to the production and some things I am sure no one ever heard before.

.

As I said I really respect all his bands but for the vault I do not want to hear from them. They all have their own views on certain things and do not want that clouding or blocking the process not even purposely on their parts and I am speaking ALL the bands ALL. I am not singling out one.

But having someone 'unrelated' to it, doesn't mean there won't be/cannot be personal views on certain things.

Not to mention, someone with no connection, just might not get it, when it comes to the music the times the vibe the direction.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes it does matter. It will always matter.

that's why it's been killing me that Prince didn't leave a hint of a direction as to how the vault was to be curated, released, damaged tapes repaired/enhanced, which songs might be appropriate for commerical tie-ins, revised or augmented song writing or producing credits, etc. NADA...how glorious if even, outside of a will, there was a big note in his hand-writing on the vault wall saying "Wendy, Lisa, Dez, Sheila, 3rdEyeGirl, etc. were my trusted fellow musicians..turn to them for direction if I am not here."

yes

I mean if it came time (and I HOPE IT IS VERY SOON) to release a Roadhouse Garden set.
How would Joe Shmoe from Kalamozoo know anything about what the process and vision would be, how would he/she know anything about the music in the vault that revolved around it. They cannot.

And to make the process move quicker, the people involved inthe music/scene/era/band should be the ones.

Same with the Rainbow Children II, I want that too, even if some of the songs were released, it would care the same affect.

The Rebels project

the Loring Parks sessions

OldFriends4Sale said:

Vashtix said:

I respect all of this bands and what they brought to us via working with Prince .

.

I just think for true equity and care for generations to come it needs people who can go through it without anything else in mind but getting the great music out. I want to hear this gospel, his blues, along with unreleased Vanity 6, The Time, even his Christian stuff no matter feelings and emotions attached to the production and some things I am sure no one ever heard before.

.

As I said I really respect all his bands but for the vault I do not want to hear from them. They all have their own views on certain things and do not want that clouding or blocking the process not even purposely on their parts and I am speaking ALL the bands ALL. I am not singling out one.

But having someone 'unrelated' to it, doesn't mean there won't be/cannot be personal views on certain things.

Not to mention, someone with no connection, just might not get it, when it comes to the music the times the vibe the direction.

But for the release of music a person who is a music curator would know good music despite the vibe and connection. I am also under the impression that there is so much there and stuff Prince did alone.

.

At this point I want the music, videos, lyrics, whatever to be shared in a respectful way and not a circus. I do not even want the engineers who worked with him either. Give the music and take away all the connection and vibe for me. I am emphasizing ALL bands and ALL engineers .

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplegirl00 said:

Prince was swift in putting these people on notice and throwing the lawyers when lips started flapping. Now it's up to us, the fans to call out them out on the wrongs.

No one is calling them out. People are just on message boards talking to each other.

I did not say anyone was calling out. My point was that Prince had no issue keeping these people in place when he was alive. He did it with reason. If fans don't like what they are doing, then it's up to them (us) to speak out now that he's gone.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Thewooh said:

Why does she harp on about Wonderful Ass being written about Susannah and Wendy(!)? The song predates both if them and was given to Vanity.

Did she 'harp' on the song or did they ask? She obviously has great memories and feelings about the song.
Aslo Wendy was in camp since 1981 technically. And knew Prince, not to mention by 1982 she sang on Free(1999) Irresistable Bitch and sat in on soundchecks during the Controversy/1999 tours.

Not to mention, a songs origins are not negated by a later evolution of the song.

Neither is wrong, both are right.

Do you know who it was written about?

"Yes, of course, it was written about Wendy and Susannah. They were twins [Susannah was in a relationship with Prince at the time]. It was about Wendy and Susannah’s wonderful ass."

*

This is tricky now. I was giving Lisa the benefit of the doubt believing before that what she meant the first time she implied that WA was about Wendy and Susannah was that she and Prince were having a little fun with the song at that time singing about their girlfriends. Now I'm not so sure.

*

It's suspicious all over again. She is clearly trying to imply again that the song was WRITTEN about Wendy and Susannah, which I DO NOT BELIEVE for a moment. I know I wasn't there, but neither am I gullible enough to believe everything I hear about Prince (no matter who says it) without analyzing a situation for myself by putting facts together. The song does predate Susannah. I have an interview of Susannah saying she met Prince and Vanity for the first time at the Warner Bros Christmas party December 1982, and Wendy was quoted in The Making Of Purple Rain saying that Prince started to show interest in Susannah for the first time at the First Ave Benefit concert August 3 of 1983. Jill Jones can even attest to that and has come forward saying the song was inspired by Vanity with proof of her handwriting on the initial lyric sheet proving she was there and even helped Prince look up and write the IRATE rhyming words for the song.

*

Not only did Jill Jones come forward but I've heard that Morris Hayes came forward saying the song was about vanity, I've heard about Appolonia coming forward saying the song was about Vanity. Even if none of them are to be believed... SUSAN ROGERS herself has been on record saying that WA was inspired by Vanity. So it's Susan Rogers, Jill Jones, Morris Hayes, Appolonia... All of this along with the fact that it PREDATES Susannah... Come on.

*

I know it's a frivolous thing to debate who inspired the song WA, but it's not even about the song anymore. If you're not gonna be truthful about who inspired a simple thing as a song, It's gonna be hard to believe anything you say. I think it's a trust thing now. I'm not trying to beat up on the Rev's or Lisa (I like Lisa) but I'm gonna speak my mind if I think something is off.

[Edited 8/6/17 16:41pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

donnyenglish said:

In 30 years, Prince never invited the Revolution to record or play live at Paisley Park. Now, they want to have a say with the releases? And the lies that Wendy wrote the opening of Purple Rain when she could barely play the guitar at the time and Fink wrote the iconic woo woo woo woo at the end of Purple Rain is offensive. The Revolution era was a cool period. Like all other eras it had good aspects and bad. My opinion is they were a good image band but was his most robotic and stiff band by far. Stop overstating your influence. Stay in your lane.

Yes he did. In 1999

But what does that have to do with having a say in music released when she / they were with Prince?
That is a no brainer. Joshua Welton can work on stuff from the PR Deluxe? But not Lisa Coleman? LOL come on.
It should be that way with the various NPG formations and 3rd Eye Girl

Dr. Fink also said he remembered hearing Prince work on it after they went to see Bob Segar doing the 1999 tour and Prince told him the WB wanted him to do that type of music. Now years later this song has become a band effort. LOL.

They can talk all the smack they want they will never get a dime of money and no way should they be consulted or get a check from the estate for anything that were not involved with. Kind of leaves it to AWIAD and Parade and some outakes.

Remember Jill Jones called them a bunch of Millie Vallies and that is actually how they are starting to look. A year and a half ago Mark Brown was looking for work via Facebook.

Matt Fink was playing in a Prince tribute band with some white guy running around on the stage pretending to be Prince.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes it does matter. It will always matter.

that's why it's been killing me that Prince didn't leave a hint of a direction as to how the vault was to be curated, released, damaged tapes repaired/enhanced, which songs might be appropriate for commerical tie-ins, revised or augmented song writing or producing credits, etc. NADA...how glorious if even, outside of a will, there was a big note in his hand-writing on the vault wall saying "Wendy, Lisa, Dez, Sheila, 3rdEyeGirl, etc. were my trusted fellow musicians..turn to them for direction if I am not here."

He did leave a hint. It is called a contract. It appears via the WSJ article that the contract he signed with WB give WB license to material for the soundtracks forever, license domestically and internationally for some projects forvever. Every WB album has different start and end dates. The masters belong to the estate and WB has its own vault of unrealeashed music.

This contract I imagine is binding as we already saw UMG walk away from their deal with the estate because of the WB contract.

I think it will probaly be up to Troy to make decisions with WB about what the future releashes for WB material will be and whomever the estate decides to work with on the post WB stuff.

I doubt the Revolution will get the job. This is just making them look bad and they need to knock it off.