I interpreted Lisa's statement as being in reference to artistic contributions not personal or practical ones. But agree to disagree.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think I did a good job of answer your question about Z

purplerabbithole said:

Did you read the comments section in that article. People on this site aren't the only ones arguing about the vibe these Revolution articles give off sometimes (probably not intentionally) . One guy defending the article stated that the Revolution's statement doesn't take anything away from Prince because Prince set up the conditions so that he and his bandmates could create and write the songs together. This description is fine for songs like PUrple Rain (although what falls under 'write' as opposed to "arrange"?,) but is it accurate for all his songs? I am actually getting tired of hearing only about PR (and it collaborative creation) but not about the Beautiful ONes, Darling Nikki and When Doves Cry. It is nOt necessarily the Revolution's fault (after all, PR is what they are probably being asked about). But, even with all his hype, Prince is still underrated about certain things.. Maybe if the Revolution could see the ways in which he is occasionally underrated, they would make a point to describe what they loved about those solo efforts I listed. (they did a great job in liner notes of PR deluxe.) I know they have in the past, but newer fans or less ardent fans haven't read every interview in the last 30 years.

Recently, I was reading about SXSW 2013 and P's performance.. One of the reviewers stated that Prince did a cover of Tevin Campbell's "SHHH"..and needless to say it definitely annoyed me (how do you do a cover of a song you wrote?). So I looked into the recordings of both versions. It turns out even the arrangment and playing on Campbell's earlier released version were P and the NPG's. So I listened to Campbell version on youtube and read the comments. Some of the commenters didn't know he wrote the song, most of them did,but the commenters also didn't know that Campbell's version (with the exception of vocals) was P and NPG's version as well.. The commenters were divided on which version was better..(some of the posters preferred Prince's raw sexual version, some preferred Tevin's more more romantic and sensual version and stated that he brought it to a new level..). LOL> Can you believe I spent 45 minutes reading about his crap yesterday. Pathetic, I know.

[Edited 7/25/17 7:39am]

[Edited 7/25/17 7:43am]

[Edited 7/25/17 7:44am]

That was about Bobby Z

purplerabbithole said:

I interpreted Lisa's statement as being in reference to artistic contributions not personal or practical ones. But agree to disagree.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think I did a good job of answer your question about Z

Lisa is talking about image and personal expression, not necessarily musical talent. Rivken is right on the money.

Not to pile on you--- I am not quite as annoyed as Laura is with the Revolution now--- I realize now that at least they are keeping Prince in the media's attention a bit with these interview---but those tidbits you provided from Bobby basically sound like Bobby was learning the technique that Prince wanted him to use.

Michael Bland brings that drum solo at the beginning of "Shhh" in P's version and that alone makes me love that big fella.. Shhh was recorded for Tevin in 1992 and of course P released it as his own in 1995 on the Gold Experience album. That is obviously post Grafitti Bridge. Although Tevin's Round and Round is GB...(I like that song --its Jackson 5 quality in my opinion.)

Even though Shhh has a slightly creepy undertone of teenage sex, what I like about P's version is that the smooth love jam groove and lyrics about breaking it down and keeping it quiet (and private) contradict the loud intensity of the beginning and end of the song, as if he is trying to contain the sexual energy and keep it quiet but its futile once climax is met. The beginning of the song is the excitiment of an upcoming sexual rendezvous, the middle of song is the quiet sneaky foreplay and deliberately pent up sexual energy that intensifies the excitement, and then, the loud end of teh song is all that pent up sexual energy eventually released (obviously orgasmic for a lack of a better word). I love that song and the live performances are quite impressive that I have seen (2011 french one is my favoirte) . I find that to be one of his sexiest songs/performance and it reminds me why guitar players are sex gods. I am totally defensive about that song...LOL>

About Graffiti Bridge, I love about half the songs but the half I love I really love. Too bad that the crappiness of the movie (along with the title song and a very others) tainted what was good about that album.

OldFriends4Sale said:

How is this statement not understood?

"Every one of us had something he didn’t have, even though he had it all."

http://www.twincities.com/2017/07/18/how-the-revolution-goes-on-without-prince-and-why/amp/

Rivkin: “Nobody lived like him. Nobody had that talent, nobody had that panache. He really was one of a kind. Watch the Syracuse ’85 concert video (recently reissued as part of the deluxe version of ‘Purple Rain’). When you watch him, you realize he’s probably the greatest entertainer of all time. Nobody had the songs, the dances, the moves, the look. And if Prince is gone, wow, this really is a temporary place. He sang about this and he wrote about this. It was all about life and death for him.”

Coleman: “He sang about really personal things and took a lot of chances with how he looked, what he was saying and how he performed. He was really courageous. Think about things we hold very close. Our personal identities, our religious and sexual and racial identities. He was putting it all out there in a big, strong way, like whoever you are, whatever you are, it’s all good. He made risk-taking cool and made your dark side something to proud of. People really connected to all of that.”

Okay, let's track this.

The original statement that Lisa made that is in the OP's first post is what I was referring to. I don't think she was talking about personal or pragmatic things. I stated then that I didn't see what big artistic contributions Bobby brought to the table. YOu responded by pointing out Bobby's ability to handle the drumming as Prince wanted (and learn how to use the Linn drums etc), his connection to his brother, his humility, and his personal connection to Prince. I disagreed that your description of Bobby's contributions were what Lisa was talking about.

We can drop the subject. Yes, Bobby was valuable...I just didn't know if it was in the way that Lisa was implying (bringing an artistic sensibility or skill that Prince didn't already have himself.) .

OldFriends4Sale said:

That was about Bobby Z

purplerabbithole said:

I interpreted Lisa's statement as being in reference to artistic contributions not personal or practical ones. But agree to disagree.

[Edited 7/25/17 15:02pm]

laurarichardson said:

GaryMF said:

Get over it. She's being very respectful.

.

It sounds contradictory, but what she means is that Prince was an amazing artist before and after the Revolution and was always destined to fame....

.

.

but that even someone with all his talents wanted to add to his palette by including other musicians who could contribute and make his music have some more qualities it wouldn't have had otherwise.

No she is being ridiculous and we have been seeing these types of comments for several months. They know exactly what they are doing and they are not above being called on it.

No, YOU are being ridiculous, as everyone can see.

Well you do keep wrestling with this. So you can drop it, but I will comment.

The article quote is clear as day. Of course Prince needed people, because he is 1 man. He ain't God omnipresent omniscient etc

Prince was the visionary, 'their fearless leader',

How is this statement not understood?

"Every one of us had something he didn’t have, even though he had it all."

http://www.twincities.com/2017/07/18/how-the-revolution-goes-on-without-prince-and-why/amp/

Rivkin: “Nobody lived like him. Nobody had that talent, nobody had that panache. He really was one of a kind. Watch the Syracuse ’85 concert video (recently reissued as part of the deluxe version of ‘Purple Rain’). When you watch him, you realize he’s probably the greatest entertainer of all time. Nobody had the songs, the dances, the moves, the look. And if Prince is gone, wow, this really is a temporary place. He sang about this and he wrote about this. It was all about life and death for him.”

Coleman: “He sang about really personal things and took a lot of chances with how he looked, what he was saying and how he performed. He was really courageous. Think about things we hold very close. Our personal identities, our religious and sexual and racial identities. He was putting it all out there in a big, strong way, like whoever you are, whatever you are, it’s all good. He made risk-taking cool and made your dark side something to proud of. People really connected to all of that.”

purplerabbithole said:

Okay, let's track this.

The original statement that Lisa made that is in the OP's first post is what I was referring to. I don't think she was talking about personal or pragmatic things. I stated then that I didn't see what big artistic contributions Bobby brought to the table. YOu responded by pointing out Bobby's ability to handle the drumming as Prince wanted (and learn how to use the Linn drums etc), his connection to his brother, his humility, and his personal connection to Prince. I disagreed that your description of Bobby's contributions were what Lisa was talking about.

We can drop the subject. Yes, Bobby was valuable...I just didn't know if it was in the way that Lisa was implying (bringing an artistic sensibility or skill that Prince didn't already have himself.) .

OldFriends4Sale said:

That was about Bobby Z

[Edited 7/25/17 15:02pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplerabbithole said:

Okay, let's track this.

The original statement that Lisa made that is in the OP's first post is what I was referring to. I don't think she was talking about personal or pragmatic things. I stated then that I didn't see what big artistic contributions Bobby brought to the table. YOu responded by pointing out Bobby's ability to handle the drumming as Prince wanted (and learn how to use the Linn drums etc), his connection to his brother, his humility, and his personal connection to Prince. I disagreed that your description of Bobby's contributions were what Lisa was talking about.

We can drop the subject. Yes, Bobby was valuable...I just didn't know if it was in the way that Lisa was implying (bringing an artistic sensibility or skill that Prince didn't already have himself.) .

OldFriends4Sale said:

That was about Bobby Z

[Edited 7/25/17 15:02pm]

While taking the statement in a literal manner is to miss the intent behind the words what Bobby had that Prince didn't was the ability to blend into the background and play in a stately manner, driving the songs forward without missing a beat. If they were all moving like Prince up there you wouldn't know where to look.

Brownmark had this as well, Andre Cymone has actually talked about how he basically wanted to be Prince up there and was always vying for attention, he was never gonna last because he was too competitive. Brownmark was happy to share but not steal the limelight.

[Edited 7/25/17 19:48pm]

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Right, so you are using it wrong.
People around here throw that word out as soon as someone likes or speaks positively about someone, they(you) don't like. That is not a Stan.

I've never met any of these people, I don't go running to try to meet any of them, including Prince.

Ridiculous claims about Prince or Prince associates without ever backing anything up and going overboard to the point of attack other people or 'stalking' the people they admire is one thing.
You cannot call someone a "STAN" which is not even an official word, just because they like someone you don't or someone you have a problem with.

throw out that made up term STAN whenever someone says you don't like (and you seem to be against everyone from 1978-2017) is a strawman

use of STAN is a STRAWMAN

straw man

ˌstrô ˈman/

noun

noun: strawman

1. 1.

   an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

   "her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"
2. 2.

   a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.

   "a photogenic straw man gets inserted into office and advisers dictate policy"

I listed the definition for you. That is how it is being used. When it does not work for you it is a made up word.

Uh it is a made up word. Who started it again? It is a made up word.
But even from the origins of that, you are wrong in using it willy nilly toward anyone who talks about someone you don't like.

Strawman

OldFriends4Sale said:

Asenath0607 said:

Lisa Coleman states "Every one of us had something he didn’t have, even though he had it all."

Anyone care to share their thoughts on what each member had that Prince did not have? Just curious as to what other people's thoughts are.

please include the article link

thanx

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jul/24/how-we-made-princes-purple-rain-interview

purplerabbithole said:

I interpreted Lisa's statement as being in reference to artistic contributions not personal or practical ones. But agree to disagree.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think I did a good job of answer your question about Z

I orginallywas looking at her statement from an artistic contribution also and never really thought about her comment from another vantage point.

OldFriends4Sale said:

If Prince could have cloned himself he would have never had a band.

Being someone who was there with Prince since 49East I think having someone in your band that totally believes in you, and is dedicated to you (not using you to get a record deal or as a stepping stone) is a big thing. There is a familia connection that happens ie Prince also had David Z(Bobby Z's brother) working with him. Prince was friends with Bobby's wife. knew the kids etc

So that kind of connection makes a big difference.

Bobby Z was really sharp in learning the technical aspects of drumming when the electric drums triggers and linn drum programing came into the camp. Those sounds were key to Prince's music and it being a distinct sound.

.

There is an interview(I think video) where Bobby goes into detail about what he did and had to learn in those earlier years. It sheds a whole different behind the scenes light of what we were hearing and seeing.

.

I love the 3121/Planet Earth period. I don't find drummer Cora particularly standout-ish. I could say 'what did she bring?' I could not tell you. And I think Bobby Z was a much better drummer and did very good job playing Prince music so it sounded like Prince music. And I prefer Bobby Z as a drummer over Michael Bland.

.

But back to the OP's confusion. They've spelled it out in too many interviews.

purplerabbithole said:

I don't mean to sound hard on Bobby but even your and Prince's very nice description of Bobby's talent, self discipline and humility doesn't suggest that he brought anything special to the table that PRince couldn't have done himself had he just been able to clone himself. Not over-drumming is something Prince was probably just as capable of.

As for the title, I referred to. I was not directing that disdain toward teh Revolution but instead toward the writer.

Slightly, unrelated question....Do you think there was magic in the superbowl performance of Purple Rain or was there something lacking because the rest of the original partiicipants weren't there. Is the Revolution now without PRince, Susan Rogers etc able to recreate the magic of Purple Rain? Or is the magic in both cases just unique and distinctive from the recording?

[Edited 7/25/17 5:53am]

I am not the one who indicated that the quote didn't make sense, or that I was "confused" in any way. I posted a simple question in an attempt to solicit genuine opinions and engage in a constructive dialogue. I'm not a muscian, and do not know all the ends and outs of Prince's bands; but was thinking along the lines of artistic/musical skills/talents; i.e. "so and so had more years of training in classical music and brought this to the table where this wasn't one of Prince's strongest areas and you can hear this when so and so played on ________" . I have no hidden agenda, am not trolling by asking the question. Furthermore, even if "they" spelled it out in many interviews, my question was related to what you all as fans viewed that each member brought to the table what Prince didn't have. As an aside, IMO, I think that it's a sorry state of affairs that it seems like 80-90% of post on here seems to shift to a negative/argumentative/defensive/condesending tone or vibe for no apparent reasons other than folks tendency to make assumptions and jump to conclusions. But on second thought; it's all good. simply the times we're living in and the nature of the best. carry on

[Edited 7/26/17 2:28am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said: I listed the definition for you. That is how it is being used. When it does not work for you it is a made up word.

Uh it is a made up word. Who started it again? It is a made up word.
But even from the origins of that, you are wrong in using it willy nilly toward anyone who talks about someone you don't like.

Strawman

I am applying it this way on this board to all the W&L stans.

--

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Uh it is a made up word. Who started it again? It is a made up word.
But even from the origins of that, you are wrong in using it willy nilly toward anyone who talks about someone you don't like.

Strawman

I am applying it this way on this board to all the W&L stans.

--

Stan

Based on the central character in the Eminem song of the same name, a "stan" is an overzealous maniacal fan for any celebrity or athlete.

A Typical Kobe Bryant Stan would say something like.
"Kobe Bryant scored 81 points last night. Kobe could beat God himself in a game of 1 on 1 hoops. To hell with Michael Jordan or Wilt Chamberlain, they arent on Kobe's level!"

Well go talk to the stan

and stop hijacking the thread