No, there shouldn't be another word. A fan is a fan. I am not a casual fan. I am not a fairweather fan. I am a new fan.

I apologized for challenging your fanhood. I was wrong. I would kindly ask you to stop challenging mine just because we disagree about some statements made by his associates. I am not ripping into Wendy like other people are on this thread. I try to have a balanced view on her and on Prince.

OldFriends4Sale said:

No I'm not kidding you

I think there must be another word to use

purplerabbithole said:

Are you kidding me?

Do all his 'true' fans feel the need to drive off anyone who is a new fan who doesn't want to conduct their fanhood in the same way. My not being as interested in his associates doesn't make me less interested in him. I guess since I don't prefer every Prince and The Revolution song or Time song or 80's side project over everything he did in later parts of his life, that disqualifies me as a true fan. Well, damn, I have been wasting a lot of my time the last year and a half, listening to and obsessing over someone of whom I am not really a fan. I guess I just come on this website to argue with you for no damn reason.. I wasn't around when Sinatra or the Beatles made their music either. I guess my fanhood of them is just a crock of shit.

I apologized and explained myself. I don't have any issue with the Revolution touring now. I merely explained why I wasn't able to personally bring myself to see them and why I prefer seeing old clips of Prince performing. If U2 decided to tour without bono or the Rolling Stones decided to tour without Mick, I wouldn't go see them live either even if it was to celebrate Bono and/or MIck's lives after they died. (and obviously,Mickand Bono aren't as important to the success of their bands as Prince was to his). Others might out of love for Mick and Bono, but I wouldn't want to go.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

you on fire today! Anyway, let me make this 100% clear..this is not a bait thread. It is a fully valid & in the context of Prince a very important point of discussion. There remains a lot of angst in her & it leads me & many others in my ourple circle to strongly question the motives of this so called 'healing' tour.

I think u have fire under U, did U create a thread like this a few months back

you seem to have an issue with her, so anything she says will be taken out of context by you

without wishing to get into the usual you said / I said nonsense your point bears no relevance. There is no context as these are her comments, her emotions laid open for all to see & hear. I 100% agree that I have huge issues with her..in the context of what's going on in the world right now it is totally meaningless..however as a long term hardcore prince fam I fully reserve the right to be hugely offended. I am not alone in this perception.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think u have fire under U, did U create a thread like this a few months back

you seem to have an issue with her, so anything she says will be taken out of context by you

without wishing to get into the usual you said / I said nonsense your point bears no relevance. There is no context as these are her comments, her emotions laid open for all to see & hear. I 100% agree that I have huge issues with her..in the context of what's going on in the world right now it is totally meaningless..however as a long term hardcore prince fam I fully reserve the right to be hugely offended. I am not alone in this perception.

And that drives you

purplerabbithole said:

And who did Wendy want a thank you from??

Prince. Obviously. But how do you get blame from that? Do you not think it's possible to talk about two different things in the same conversation? The program was about sidemen, and their section touched on what they did when they were no longer in that capacity.

.

I just feel like you're taking two different things and pushing them together. Mad at the industry does not equal mad at Prince. If anything, she's talked about how Prince let her wear his suits instead of her underwear on stage -- she didn't want to be hypersexualized and he didn't make her. Wasn't one of the reasons he gave for firing them (to their faces at least, not necessarily the real reason) that he wanted to sell sex with the women in his band, and he knew that they wouldn't want that / couldn't do that to them? Likely completely bogus, but that's how he justified it to himself and to them initially.

.

Then they embark on solo careers and the industry wants of them what they're not willing to give.

.

That's not blaming Prince. That's not his fault. No one could reasonably say that's his fault, and I really don't see where that vibe is coming from.

.

It's a timeline. She's mad at the industry. She WAS mad at Prince when he fired her. Who wouldn't be? By the looks of things, they got past that. They probably got mad at each other at other points in their lives several times -- that's called having a living relationship with a person.

.

He called her before he died. She gave him her sister's phone number. Not sure why you'd talk to someone if you're harboring some 35 year old grudge if you don't have to.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Purplerabbithole, had the opportunity to see the band live in her city. She didn't. She should have.

For some reason she holds the Revolution members to some high standard.
People here are reading it the way they want. There is no where in that video that after the break up period did she talk about Prince and Prince being the reason their career didn't go as the people hoped. As Lisa said the shows were sold out.

Yeah, it was a great show, you could feel the love on that stage.

.

Careers almost never go how you expect them to. But they were able to make a living as musicians. I'd call that a success. I'd also say it's normal to want more. Totally normal, legit feelings. Who doesn't want to headline festivals and collect GRAMMYs? There's always that feeling of "we could and should do more."

i know its more complicated than love or hate. But really did Prince ever say in a media interview that I wanted Wendy and Lisa to thank me for helping to make them famous? They worked hard for him. But he wasnt' exactly sitting on his ass either. Did he really just take and take but never give?

crimesofparis said:

purplerabbithole said:

And who did Wendy want a thank you from??

Prince. Obviously. But how do you get blame from that? Do you not think it's possible to talk about two different things in the same conversation? The program was about sidemen, and their section touched on what they did when they were no longer in that capacity.

.

I just feel like you're taking two different things and pushing them together. Mad at the industry does not equal mad at Prince. If anything, she's talked about how Prince let her wear his suits instead of her underwear on stage -- she didn't want to be hypersexualized and he didn't make her. Wasn't one of the reasons he gave for firing them (to their faces at least, not necessarily the real reason) that he wanted to sell sex with the women in his band, and he knew that they wouldn't want that / couldn't do that to them? Likely completely bogus, but that's how he justified it to himself and to them initially.

.

Then they embark on solo careers and the industry wants of them what they're not willing to give.

.

That's not blaming Prince. That's not his fault. No one could reasonably say that's his fault, and I really don't see where that vibe is coming from.

.

It's a timeline. She's mad at the industry. She WAS mad at Prince when he fired her. Who wouldn't be? By the looks of things, they got past that. They probably got mad at each other at other points in their lives several times -- that's called having a living relationship with a person.

.

He called her before he died. She gave him her sister's phone number. Not sure why you'd talk to someone if you're harboring some 35 year old grudge if you don't have to.

OldFriends4Sale said:

crimesofparis said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Purplerabbithole, had the opportunity to see the band live in her city. She didn't. She should have.

For some reason she holds the Revolution members to some high standard.
People here are reading it the way they want. There is no where in that video that after the break up period did she talk about Prince and Prince being the reason their career didn't go as the people hoped. As Lisa said the shows were sold out.

Yeah, it was a great show, you could feel the love on that stage.

.

Careers almost never go how you expect them to. But they were able to make a living as musicians. I'd call that a success. I'd also say it's normal to want more. Totally normal, legit feelings. Who doesn't want to headline festivals and collect GRAMMYs? There's always that feeling of "we could and should do more."

Yes I totally agree, it is a great communal experience.

.

I agree, especially in that moment I can see how then need to do more or be more, when being pushed, might go against what you really want.

purplerabbithole said:

i know its more complicated than love or hate. But really did Prince ever say in a media interview that I wanted Wendy and Lisa to thank me for helping to make them famous? They worked hard for him. But he wasnt' exactly sitting on his ass either. Did he really just take and take but never give?

Could be lots of reasons Prince never said in a media interview that he wanted a thank you from Wendy and Lisa (that I know of, at least).

1. Maybe the DID say thank you privately or publicly. Neither of us know if they said it privately, and I don't know that they've never said it in an interview.
2. Maybe it's less common to WANT that kind of affirmation from your mentee, as a mentor. Maybe it's actually kinda weird and aggressive (might not be the right word, but close) to want your employee to thank you for hiring them.

I don't feel the need for my employees to thank me for the opportunity or thank me for kickstarting their careers or whatever. I thank them. I've certainly thanked my boss for opportunities, raises, being understanding, etc., but I know he doesn't expect it. I do it because it's polite.

.

However, it feels awesome when he thanks me for doing a great job, especially when he also busts his ass. Actually, that makes it a lot more meaningful. To hear "We all worked hard, and I'm really thankful that you helped us get to where we are." What's unreasonable about wanting that?

.

No one is saying that he just took and didn't give, but he did have a history of being ... uneven with giving credit. I think he gave them a lot. I'm sure they feel like they were given a lot. They're not asking for more money -- the way some Prince collaborators have by suing him -- they just said they would've liked a "thank you, I think you're great."

OldFriends4Sale said:

I agree, especially in that moment I can see how then need to do more or be more, when being pushed, might go against what you really want.

Especially when people thought you could be huge (yourself included).

.

I think I read that Wendy & Lisa self-financed that first record -- I imagine for a mix of total creative control and also a bigger share of any royalties they were anticipating from sales back when people bought records. Not sure that gamble paid off for them in the short term. Hope it did in the long run.

A mentor teaches a mentoree something about their trade.. W and L never give the impression that that was the case (not in the interviews I read anyway-- I would sincerely love to read evidence to the contrary). From what I read from them,they sound like bandmates who contribute ideas and opened his mind to different musical forms but ultimately he was the general and they were the already talented ground troups being taught merely endurance and self discipline. This general they describe sounds like someone whose influence never really affected them in their own musical evolution. They often seem like experts hired for what they already knew before they were hired (like Prince was the raw talent but savvy star who hired these expert musicians to cultivate his music.) Did not Prince's funkiness rub off on any one else (mark brown maybe.)??

crimesofparis said:

purplerabbithole said:

i know its more complicated than love or hate. But really did Prince ever say in a media interview that I wanted Wendy and Lisa to thank me for helping to make them famous? They worked hard for him. But he wasnt' exactly sitting on his ass either. Did he really just take and take but never give?

Could be lots of reasons Prince never said in a media interview that he wanted a thank you from Wendy and Lisa (that I know of, at least).

1. Maybe the DID say thank you privately or publicly. Neither of us know if they said it privately, and I don't know that they've never said it in an interview.
2. Maybe it's less common to WANT that kind of affirmation from your mentee, as a mentor. Maybe it's actually kinda weird and aggressive (might not be the right word, but close) to want your employee to thank you for hiring them.

I don't feel the need for my employees to thank me for the opportunity or thank me for kickstarting their careers or whatever. I thank them. I've certainly thanked my boss for opportunities, raises, being understanding, etc., but I know he doesn't expect it. I do it because it's polite.

.

However, it feels awesome when he thanks me for doing a great job, especially when he also busts his ass. Actually, that makes it a lot more meaningful. To hear "We all worked hard, and I'm really thankful that you helped us get to where we are." What's unreasonable about wanting that?

.

No one is saying that he just took and didn't give, but he did have a history of being ... uneven with giving credit. I think he gave them a lot. I'm sure they feel like they were given a lot. They're not asking for more money -- the way some Prince collaborators have by suing him -- they just said they would've liked a "thank you, I think you're great."

[Edited 7/12/17 12:32pm]

purplerabbithole said:

A mentor teaches a mentoree something about their trade.. W and L never give the impression that that was the case (not in the interviews I read anyway). From what I read from them,they sound like bandmates who contribute ideas and opened his mind to different musical forms but ultimately he was the general and they were the ground troops being taught merely endurance and self discipline. This general they describe sounds like someone whose influence never really affected them in their own musical evolution. They often seem like experts hired for what they already knew before they were hired (like Prince was the raw talent but savvy star who hired these expert musicians to cultivate his music.)"

[Edited 7/12/17 12:24pm]

Maybe mentor is the wrong word, but they're certainly on the "protegee" side of this wall where to his right are those he influenced, and to his left are those he was influenced by. So seems that he thought he influenced them.

.

Regardless, replace "mentor" with "employer" and I still think it's weird to say "you should thank me for hiring you." The only kind of person who says that is exactly the kind of person you do NOT want to work with.

.

I haven't read every interview with them to say for sure one way or the other if they've ever said they were influenced by Prince. That doesn't mean they never said it. To prove that they've never said that, you'd have to dig through literally every interview they've ever done -- proving a negative is super hard.

.

I think it's clear that they were. But there was also obviously an exchange of musical ideas -- Wendy's chords, Lisa's killer piano chops and orchestration.

.

And don't we try to hire people who are better than us in the capacities we need filled? Who can contribute on their own? Especially in music.

Ill betcha Wendy wishes she had said some of these things directly to Prince, now that she will never get to may be the reason she is a little more emotional or assertive in her feelings.

moonsister said:

Ill betcha Wendy wishes she had said some of these things directly to Prince, now that she will never get to may be the reason she is a little more emotional or assertive in her feelings.

I think she probably has said a lot.
I agree, sometimes you think bringing something up to someone seems petty, until it's too late.

"ehh I'll let it go," but sometimes it lodges way in the back somewhere.
She talked about when she was with him prior to the 2004 Reflections performance and how much she hugged him and told him she loved him.

OldFriends4Sale said:

moonsister said:

Ill betcha Wendy wishes she had said some of these things directly to Prince, now that she will never get to may be the reason she is a little more emotional or assertive in her feelings.

I think she probably has said a lot.
I agree, sometimes you think bringing something up to someone seems petty, until it's too late.

"ehh I'll let it go," but sometimes it lodges way in the back somewhere.
She talked about when she was with him prior to the 2004 Reflections performance and how much she hugged him and told him she loved him.

I love that performance. He was so. damn. handsome. and the song was perfection. I can see where she is just staring at him, amazed, and he finally looks at her, like whatcha staring at??? LOL

And don't we try to hire people who are better than us in the capacities we need filled?

To some extent, this is probably true. Prince is a good piano player but Lisa is probably a bit better, but was Wendy a better guitarist than Prince? Is Prince just good at showmanship, band leadership and coming up with halfway catchy melodies and fun dirty lyrics? Does he not have color, variety and tone in his music without Wendy and Lisa?

I am no musician but I believe a good use of chords was evident in pre-and-post-Wendy Prince music?

I know Lisa has complimented some of prince's compositions. I get the feeling they believed in him (otherwise why work so hard for them)? But occassionally, I feel like they think they were more cultivated and refined than he was.

crimesofparis said:

purplerabbithole said:

A mentor teaches a mentoree something about their trade.. W and L never give the impression that that was the case (not in the interviews I read anyway). From what I read from them,they sound like bandmates who contribute ideas and opened his mind to different musical forms but ultimately he was the general and they were the ground troops being taught merely endurance and self discipline. This general they describe sounds like someone whose influence never really affected them in their own musical evolution. They often seem like experts hired for what they already knew before they were hired (like Prince was the raw talent but savvy star who hired these expert musicians to cultivate his music.)"

[Edited 7/12/17 12:24pm]

Maybe mentor is the wrong word, but they're certainly on the "protegee" side of this wall where to his right are those he influenced, and to his left are those he was influenced by. So seems that he thought he influenced them.

.

Regardless, replace "mentor" with "employer" and I still think it's weird to say "you should thank me for hiring you." The only kind of person who says that is exactly the kind of person you do NOT want to work with.

.

I haven't read every interview with them to say for sure one way or the other if they've ever said they were influenced by Prince. That doesn't mean they never said it. To prove that they've never said that, you'd have to dig through literally every interview they've ever done -- proving a negative is super hard.

.

I think it's clear that they were. But there was also obviously an exchange of musical ideas -- Wendy's chords, Lisa's killer piano chops and orchestration.

.

And don't we try to hire people who are better than us in the capacities we need filled? Who can contribute on their own? Especially in music.

purplerabbithole said:

And don't we try to hire people who are better than us in the capacities we need filled?

To some extent, this is probably true. Prince is a good piano player but Lisa is probably a bit better, but was Wendy a better guitarist than Prince? Is Prince just good at showmanship, band leadership and coming up with halfway catchy melodies and fun dirty lyrics? Does he not have color, variety and tone in his music without Wendy and Lisa?

I am no musician but I believe a good use of chords was evident in pre-and-post-Wendy Prince music?

I know Lisa has complimented some of prince's compositions. I get the feeling they believed in him (otherwise why work so hard for them)? But occassionally, I feel like they think they were more cultivated and refined than he was.

Wendy? Better guitarist? No. She's a great guitarist, though. But Prince is one of the greatest ever. She's inventive in different ways. Watching her with an acoustic guitar is pretty spellbounding.

.

Honestly, I have no idea how she gets her hands to reach some of those notes. I've seen tabs on how to play Purple Rain and most of them say something along the lines of "well, this is the actual chord, but it's really really hard to play, so I'm just gonna play a regular F chord instead." It's also a pretty exhausting reach -- I can't play tht song for 8-13 minutes straight. My hand cramps up.

.

Of course he had great music without them. He's the one who said they added color to his music.

.

As a guitarist, early Prince stuff was very funk and disco-driven, a little punk too. Those are tighter chords, tigher strumming patterns. Wendy opened chords up a lot. Absolutely something he could have done on his own (and did do later), but he didn't at the time. She did.

Thank you for the measured and well informed responses. But is 1999 all that punkish or even funky of an album. It seems a bit more melodic to me and from all accounts, Revolution members' involvement was more limited than in later album..

I guess what I am trying to say is that when Prince says that W and L added color to his music, it is a compliment. When Lisa compliments WDC and Darling Nikki, that is a compliment. Even though, they state what they like about Prince's music and state how they contributed, at times they come off as if they think that Prince lived in a musical bubble before them (like a skilled but not particularly cultured musical savant). I introduced him to the Beatles, I introduced him to Jazz, etc. Kind of condenscending. He hired them knowing that they had certain expertise or skill sets which to me indicates that he at least had an inkling of what he wanted them to bring to the table.

BTW< I am not a guitarist...other than a brief stint with "Guitar playing for dumbies" on an old accoustic guitar I own, but I too have watched Wendy playing those hard to play chords (I think--the ones that requires 4 fingers--one on each fret) and she does seem to have some serious strength in her hands.

crimesofparis said:

purplerabbithole said:

To some extent, this is probably true. Prince is a good piano player but Lisa is probably a bit better, but was Wendy a better guitarist than Prince? Is Prince just good at showmanship, band leadership and coming up with halfway catchy melodies and fun dirty lyrics? Does he not have color, variety and tone in his music without Wendy and Lisa?

I am no musician but I believe a good use of chords was evident in pre-and-post-Wendy Prince music?

I know Lisa has complimented some of prince's compositions. I get the feeling they believed in him (otherwise why work so hard for them)? But occassionally, I feel like they think they were more cultivated and refined than he was.

Wendy? Better guitarist? No. She's a great guitarist, though. But Prince is one of the greatest ever. She's inventive in different ways. Watching her with an acoustic guitar is pretty spellbounding.

.

Honestly, I have no idea how she gets her hands to reach some of those notes. I've seen tabs on how to play Purple Rain and most of them say something along the lines of "well, this is the actual chord, but it's really really hard to play, so I'm just gonna play a regular F chord instead." It's also a pretty exhausting reach -- I can't play tht song for 8-13 minutes straight. My hand cramps up.

.

Of course he had great music without them. He's the one who said they added color to his music.

.

As a guitarist, early Prince stuff was very funk and disco-driven, a little punk too. Those are tighter chords, tigher strumming patterns. Wendy opened chords up a lot. Absolutely something he could have done on his own (and did do later), but he didn't at the time. She did.

[Edited 7/12/17 14:33pm]

[Edited 7/12/17 14:35pm]

[Edited 7/12/17 14:37pm]

Hell yes 1999 is punkish, rockabilly, funk futuristic sounds etc, and it is the first strong album that exhibits PURPLE MUSIC. And very sparse at times

Something In the Water
All the Critics Love U

This period was partially influenced by Princes love for the film Blade Runner

.

Yes Prince did live in a musical bubble, and that is partially why the sound and style is so distinctly Prince in the 80s in a way it never was again after. Rainbow Children for me is the one full album that reminds me of Prince ala Purple Music. If Prince was listening to everything that has happening in music back then it would definately have affected what they doing.

The period between 1980/81-1988 was furiously non stop. I don't see how he had time to stop and listen to the radio or actually go get records to listen to. I believe in an interview with Dez Dickerson he talked about once Purple Rain blew up, Prince said something to the degree of going to malls and just casually hanging out place was over.

.

From a 1981 Rolling Stone interview Prince talked about what radio was like in Minneapolis. He said it was mostly country music and the rnb station(s) were dead. He talked about listening to album as friends/family got them. Not to mention bouncing around as much as he did I suspect gettting a place to sleep & a record deal were at the forefront of his mind. What was on the radio was probably not so important.

.

Even Lisa Colemen said once they got into that grove of time, she called it a bubble, too. She admitted to not even knowing who Madonna was when she presented them with the award on the Grammys Night. As well as most of the band did not even know of the We Are the World event taking place for that night, adding on that Prince was easily able to keep the information away from them, before finally telling them not to take part

.

Once 1988/89 hit you started to see more people in the industry doing more music with him, and him opening to artists/acts that were not connected to his scene. And of course like Miko & Dr Fink said by 1990 the new members were on a different path. The music changed.

purplerabbithole said:

Thank you for the measured and well informed responses. But is 1999 all that punkish or even funky of an album. It seems a bit more melodic to me and from all accounts, Revolution members' involvement was more limited than in later album..

I guess what I am trying to say is that when Prince says that W and L added color to his music, it is a compliment. When Lisa compliments WDC and Darling Nikki, that is a compliment. Even though, they state what they like about Prince's music and state how they contributed, at times they come off as if they think that Prince lived in a musical bubble before them (like a skilled but not particularly cultured musical savant). I introduced him to the Beatles, I introduced him to Jazz, etc. Kind of condenscending. He hired them knowing that they had certain expertise or skill sets which to me indicates that he at least had an inkling of what he wanted them to bring to the table.

BTW< I am not a guitarist...other than a brief stint with "Guitar playing for dumbies" on an old accoustic guitar I own, but I too have watched Wendy playing those hard to play chords (I think--the ones that requires 4 fingers--one on each fret) and she does seem to have some serious strength in her hands.

crimesofparis said:

Wendy? Better guitarist? No. She's a great guitarist, though. But Prince is one of the greatest ever. She's inventive in different ways. Watching her with an acoustic guitar is pretty spellbounding.

.

Honestly, I have no idea how she gets her hands to reach some of those notes. I've seen tabs on how to play Purple Rain and most of them say something along the lines of "well, this is the actual chord, but it's really really hard to play, so I'm just gonna play a regular F chord instead." It's also a pretty exhausting reach -- I can't play tht song for 8-13 minutes straight. My hand cramps up.

.

Of course he had great music without them. He's the one who said they added color to his music.

.

As a guitarist, early Prince stuff was very funk and disco-driven, a little punk too. Those are tighter chords, tigher strumming patterns. Wendy opened chords up a lot. Absolutely something he could have done on his own (and did do later), but he didn't at the time. She did.

[Edited 7/12/17 14:33pm]

[Edited 7/12/17 14:35pm]

[Edited 7/12/17 14:37pm]

moonsister said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think she probably has said a lot.
I agree, sometimes you think bringing something up to someone seems petty, until it's too late.

"ehh I'll let it go," but sometimes it lodges way in the back somewhere.
She talked about when she was with him prior to the 2004 Reflections performance and how much she hugged him and told him she loved him.

I love that performance. He was so. damn. handsome. and the song was perfection. I can see where she is just staring at him, amazed, and he finally looks at her, like whatcha staring at??? LOL

yes I was me seeing him @ the Aladdin in LV and this Tavis Smiley performance that made me fall in love again with all things Prince.

That performance was just beautiful.

I love watching their hands moving on the guitars

I remember reading something she posted after that show, she said "I just looked up at him and he was just as beautiful..."

OldFriends4Sale said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

without wishing to get into the usual you said / I said nonsense your point bears no relevance. There is no context as these are her comments, her emotions laid open for all to see & hear. I 100% agree that I have huge issues with her..in the context of what's going on in the world right now it is totally meaningless..however as a long term hardcore prince fam I fully reserve the right to be hugely offended. I am not alone in this perception.

And that drives you

what a strange reply!...if your perception of this thread is that it is 'bait' then lock it up..you are a 'mod' afterall I couldn't care less. You are starting to sound like the Fox news to Wendys Trump!

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

And that drives you

what a strange reply!...if your perception of this thread is that it is 'bait' then lock it up..you are a 'mod' afterall I couldn't care less. You are starting to sound like the Fox news to Wendys Trump!

lol

Hell yes 1999 is punkish, rockabilly, funk futuristic sounds etc, and it is the first strong album that exhibits PURPLE MUSIC. And very sparse at times

Something In the Water
All the Critics Love U

This period was partially influenced by Princes love for the film Blade Runner

How is that living in a bubble? I think I misspoke when I said bubble. When I said "bubble" I meant clueless about music outside a few genres (like RnB, funk and soul).

I feel like Controversy was more punkish (even though there are punk elements in 1999). I love Something in the Water's song structure--I don't think it is simple as the All the Critics basic groove and spoken utterances. Delirious is obviously rockabilly (and brilliant in my opinion. the combination of rockability and quirky punchy synthesizer...I don't think I have ever heard anything like it). The song 1999 is a rare dance song of substance, Little Red COrvette is hooky rock song with strong narrative. Automatic is robotic and has a cool sexy groove. Free is a lovely melody. International Lover is hilarious but suprisingly musically sophisticated. DMSR is a great funk song. Let's Pretend we Aer married is a rock song disguised as a synth dance song...Lady Cab Driver is funky and poppy before descending into intense punkish thrusting insanity.

1999 is my favorite 80's prince album and this was actually a surprise to me when I finally listened to it all the way through, because a lot of songs with heavy synthesizer sound truely dated to me (including a lot of Blade Runner's score). But he makes it work so effectively that instead of sounding like an outdated 80's album, it almost sounds like a modern album influenced by 80's music (even though I am well aware of how off-the-mark that feeling is).

I am sorry but when Prince would say I don't listen to music I make music, I think he was exagerrating. He probably listened to others' music but he listened with purpose (not casually or strictly as a fan). It was a mock competitive attitude. I remember photographer Steve Parke talking about Prince' s faux competitive side. It fueled him to act like Bono or whoever sucked and to talk a little trash. Parke felt that Prince didn't mean any of that because he would catch him listening and grooving to the same music he claimed to not listen to or to like. And of course at times when Prince was in a charitable mood (mostly later in life) he would admit which artists (modern) that he liked and collaborated with---people like Amy Winehouse etc. It was interesting when DJ's and record store owner after he died would list what he was listening to (or requesting for them to play) or buying and it was varied and often obscure.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Hell yes 1999 is punkish, rockabilly, funk futuristic sounds etc, and it is the first strong album that exhibits PURPLE MUSIC. And very sparse at times

Something In the Water
All the Critics Love U

This period was partially influenced by Princes love for the film Blade Runner

.

Yes Prince did live in a musical bubble, and that is partially why the sound and style is so distinctly Prince in the 80s in a way it never was again after. Rainbow Children for me is the one full album that reminds me of Prince ala Purple Music. If Prince was listening to everything that has happening in music back then it would definately have affected what they doing.

The period between 1980/81-1988 was furiously non stop. I don't see how he had time to stop and listen to the radio or actually go get records to listen to. I believe in an interview with Dez Dickerson he talked about once Purple Rain blew up, Prince said something to the degree of going to malls and just casually hanging out place was over.

.

From a 1981 Rolling Stone interview Prince talked about what radio was like in Minneapolis. He said it was mostly country music and the rnb station(s) were dead. He talked about listening to album as friends/family got them. Not to mention bouncing around as much as he did I suspect gettting a place to sleep & a record deal were at the forefront of his mind. What was on the radio was probably not so important.

.

Even Lisa Colemen said once they got into that grove of time, she called it a bubble, too. She admitted to not even knowing who Madonna was when she presented them with the award on the Grammys Night. As well as most of the band did not even know of the We Are the World event taking place for that night, adding on that Prince was easily able to keep the information away from them, before finally telling them not to take part

.

Once 1988/89 hit you started to see more people in the industry doing more music with him, and him opening to artists/acts that were not connected to his scene. And of course like Miko & Dr Fink said by 1990 the new members were on a different path. The music changed.

purplerabbithole said:

Thank you for the measured and well informed responses. But is 1999 all that punkish or even funky of an album. It seems a bit more melodic to me and from all accounts, Revolution members' involvement was more limited than in later album..

I guess what I am trying to say is that when Prince says that W and L added color to his music, it is a compliment. When Lisa compliments WDC and Darling Nikki, that is a compliment. Even though, they state what they like about Prince's music and state how they contributed, at times they come off as if they think that Prince lived in a musical bubble before them (like a skilled but not particularly cultured musical savant). I introduced him to the Beatles, I introduced him to Jazz, etc. Kind of condenscending. He hired them knowing that they had certain expertise or skill sets which to me indicates that he at least had an inkling of what he wanted them to bring to the table.

BTW< I am not a guitarist...other than a brief stint with "Guitar playing for dumbies" on an old accoustic guitar I own, but I too have watched Wendy playing those hard to play chords (I think--the ones that requires 4 fingers--one on each fret) and she does seem to have some serious strength in her hands.

[Edited 7/12/17 14:33pm]

[Edited 7/12/17 14:35pm]

[Edited 7/12/17 14:37pm]

[Edited 7/12/17 16:34pm]

It was a bubble they existed in for a long wonderful period of time.
Truth is no one knows of and hears everthing. Even artists we know of, everyone doesn't know the music, the alternative stuff, the obscure stuff. Prince knew of Bob Dylan, but didn't know his music.

It is easily possible when you are going 100MPH touring interviews tv shows from Europe to the States, and recording all at the same time, to not hear a lot of stuff.

I remember somewhere in the mid 1990s I was ALIVE, moved in with a girlfriend, done with college, travelling etc Music was a background to life. There was a long period of time I did not have a lot of different albums of music, that I generally would. I was still on jazz, some underground stuff house & hip hop but not really knowledgeable about a lot of music during that period.

.

I think it was 1985 he said the only/last album he like was one by Joni Mitchell. Yeah he was watching and listening, but probably from afar. I don't think he was buy albums like a regular music consumer was. I think he was watching/listening more to the inspirational stuff to like Joni Santana Led Zep. James Brown, started getting into Miles Davis etc.
.
But again the thing that made that period so explosive was that 'as he said' his 'competition' was all around him in his reflections ie the Time, Vanity 6, his band, Sheila E, etc

purplerabbithole said:

Hell yes 1999 is punkish, rockabilly, funk futuristic sounds etc, and it is the first strong album that exhibits PURPLE MUSIC. And very sparse at times

Something In the Water
All the Critics Love U

This period was partially influenced by Princes love for the film Blade Runner

How is that living in a bubble? I think I misspoke when I said bubble. When I said "bubble" I meant clueless about music outside a few genres (like RnB, funk and soul).

I feel like Controversy was more punkish (even though there are punk elements in 1999). I love Something in the Water's song structure--I don't think it is simple as the All the Critics basic groove and spoken utterances. Delirious is obviously rockabilly (and brilliant in my opinion. the combination of rockability and quirky punchy synthesizer...I don't think I have ever heard anything like it). The song 1999 is a rare dance song of substance, Little Red COrvette is hooky rock song with strong narrative. Automatic is robotic and has a cool sexy groove. Free is a lovely melody. International Lover is hilarious but suprisingly musically sophisticated. DMSR is a great funk song. Let's Pretend we Aer married is a rock song disguised as a synth dance song...Lady Cab Driver is funky and poppy before descending into intense punkish thrusting insanity.

1999 is my favorite 80's prince album and this was actually a surprise to me when I finally listened to it all the way through, because a lot of songs with heavy synthesizer sound truely dated to me (including a lot of Blade Runner's score). But he makes it work so effectively that instead of sounding like an outdated 80's album, it almost sounds like a modern album influenced by 80's music (even though I am well aware of how off-the-mark that feeling is).

I am sorry but when Prince would say I don't listen to music I make music, I think he was exagerrating. He probably listened to others' music but he listened with purpose (not casually or strictly as a fan). It was a mock competitive attitude. I remember photographer Steve Parke talking about Prince' s faux competitive side. It fueled him to act like Bono or whoever sucked and to talk a little trash. Parke felt that Prince didn't mean any of that because he would catch him listening and grooving to the same music he claimed to not listen to or to like. And of course at times when Prince was in a charitable mood (mostly later in life) he would admit which artists (modern) that he liked and collaborated with---people like Amy Winehouse etc. It was interesting when DJ's and record store owner after he died would list what he was listening to (or requesting for them to play) or buying and it was varied and often obscure.

[Edited 7/12/17 16:34pm]

So where did the rockabilly, new wave, and punk influences heard in 1999 come from? Dez? they certainly wouldn't have come from Led zeppelin, James Brown, Joni Mitchell, Miles Davis, and santana.

OldFriends4Sale said:

It was a bubble they existed in for a long wonderful period of time.
Truth is no one knows of and hears everthing. Even artists we know of, everyone doesn't know the music, the alternative stuff, the obscure stuff. Prince knew of Bob Dylan, but didn't know his music.

It is easily possible when you are going 100MPH touring interviews tv shows from Europe to the States, and recording all at the same time, to not hear a lot of stuff.

I remember somewhere in the mid 1990s I was ALIVE, moved in with a girlfriend, done with college, travelling etc Music was a background to life. There was a long period of time I did not have a lot of different albums of music, that I generally would. I was still on jazz, some underground stuff house & hip hop but not really knowledgeable about a lot of music during that period.

.

I think it was 1985 he said the only/last album he like was one by Joni Mitchell. Yeah he was watching and listening, but probably from afar. I don't think he was buy albums like a regular music consumer was. I think he was watching/listening more to the inspirational stuff to like Joni Santana Led Zep. James Brown, started getting into Miles Davis etc.
.
But again the thing that made that period so explosive was that 'as he said' his 'competition' was all around him in his reflections ie the Time, Vanity 6, his band, Sheila E, etc

purplerabbithole said:

How is that living in a bubble? I think I misspoke when I said bubble. When I said "bubble" I meant clueless about music outside a few genres (like RnB, funk and soul).

I feel like Controversy was more punkish (even though there are punk elements in 1999). I love Something in the Water's song structure--I don't think it is simple as the All the Critics basic groove and spoken utterances. Delirious is obviously rockabilly (and brilliant in my opinion. the combination of rockability and quirky punchy synthesizer...I don't think I have ever heard anything like it). The song 1999 is a rare dance song of substance, Little Red COrvette is hooky rock song with strong narrative. Automatic is robotic and has a cool sexy groove. Free is a lovely melody. International Lover is hilarious but suprisingly musically sophisticated. DMSR is a great funk song. Let's Pretend we Aer married is a rock song disguised as a synth dance song...Lady Cab Driver is funky and poppy before descending into intense punkish thrusting insanity.

1999 is my favorite 80's prince album and this was actually a surprise to me when I finally listened to it all the way through, because a lot of songs with heavy synthesizer sound truely dated to me (including a lot of Blade Runner's score). But he makes it work so effectively that instead of sounding like an outdated 80's album, it almost sounds like a modern album influenced by 80's music (even though I am well aware of how off-the-mark that feeling is).

I am sorry but when Prince would say I don't listen to music I make music, I think he was exagerrating. He probably listened to others' music but he listened with purpose (not casually or strictly as a fan). It was a mock competitive attitude. I remember photographer Steve Parke talking about Prince' s faux competitive side. It fueled him to act like Bono or whoever sucked and to talk a little trash. Parke felt that Prince didn't mean any of that because he would catch him listening and grooving to the same music he claimed to not listen to or to like. And of course at times when Prince was in a charitable mood (mostly later in life) he would admit which artists (modern) that he liked and collaborated with---people like Amy Winehouse etc. It was interesting when DJ's and record store owner after he died would list what he was listening to (or requesting for them to play) or buying and it was varied and often obscure.

[Edited 7/12/17 16:34pm]

[Edited 7/12/17 18:18pm]

purplerabbithole said:

I am sorry but when Prince would say I don't listen to music I make music, I think he was exagerrating. He probably listened to others' music but he listened with purpose (not casually or strictly as a fan). It was a mock competitive attitude. I remember photographer Steve Parke talking about Prince' s faux competitive side. It fueled him to act like Bono or whoever sucked and to talk a little trash. Parke felt that Prince didn't mean any of that because he would catch him listening and grooving to the same music he claimed to not listen to or to like. And of course at times when Prince was in a charitable mood (mostly later in life) he would admit which artists (modern) that he liked and collaborated with---people like Amy Winehouse etc. It was interesting when DJ's and record store owner after he died would list what he was listening to (or requesting for them to play) or buying and it was varied and often obscure.

You'd be SHOCKED at the things people don't hear or have never listened to. I've seen people here call bullshit on Prince never having listened to the Beatles. I believe it. I've never listened to them either. I know the stuff you hear on the radio or at parties, but I went to a Beatles tribute night and knew SO FEW of the songs.

.

A lot of people have never listened to Prince, either, other than what they've heard on the radio.

.

I don't listen to much radio outside of a few choice Sirius stations in the rare occasion where I'm in the car. My husband listens to a lot of different stuff, and I do to, but he knows the songs that are popular right now. I don't. You can't know/listen to everything, even if it's really popular. Especially now, it's so easy for people to just listen to the exact stuff that moves them. And avoid everything else.

.

I think it was when he as on Arsenio the last time when he said that the reason he struggles to listen to music is because he's always rearranging it in his head. That makes sense to me. Sometimes it's hard for me to listen to lyrics because I'm thinking about how I would've written something.

.

Of course he listened to stuff, but probably not as much as he did before he got huge. Maybe that's more what he meant. I remember a story about him sleeping (or laying in bed with his eyes closed or something) with the radio on -- that he never turned it off. Maybe, in his mind, anything less than that wasn't really consuming music, personally.

.

Also, like OF4S said, to actively listen to music takes time and concentration, and Prince was moving and creating constantly. When would he have the time? Why would he make time to consume someone else's art when there's stuff in his head he needs to get out?

.

Or maybe he avoided listening to too much stuff because he didn't want to be accused of ripping it off later, on purpose or by accident. Robin Williams stopped seeing other comedians live because he kept getting accused of stealing jokes.

purplerabbithole said:

So where did the rockabilly, new wave, punk influenced heard in 1999 come from? Dez?

Dez was a shredder! Into metal I think, which you can totally hear in the LRC solo. And vibe from his choice in guitars.

.

I do remember reading about Prince listening to a bunch of new wave records. I think someone gave them to him. I forget who. Might've just been someone saw him with them. But he was totally into it.

.

I think it was Fink who talked with him about why was Bob Segar selling out all these big venues, and Fink said it's because of the way that music connects with people. I think then Prince wrote LRC.

.

To say W&L introduced him (or re-introduced him to, or inspired him to dabble in) jazz or the Beatles doesn't mean he wasn't getting into new things on his own here or there.

crimesofparis said:

purplerabbithole said:

So where did the rockabilly, new wave, punk influenced heard in 1999 come from? Dez?

Dez was a shredder! Into metal I think, which you can totally hear in the LRC solo. And vibe from his choice in guitars.

.

I do remember reading about Prince listening to a bunch of new wave records. I think someone gave them to him. I forget who. Might've just been someone saw him with them. But he was totally into it.

.

I think it was Fink who talked with him about why was Bob Segar selling out all these big venues, and Fink said it's because of the way that music connects with people. I think then Prince wrote LRC.

.

To say W&L introduced him (or re-introduced him to, or inspired him to dabble in) jazz or the Beatles doesn't mean he wasn't getting into new things on his own here or there.

I believe the Bob Segar connection was with Purple Rain

Prince was with Lisa and fell asleep in her 'pink'? corvette and had a dream that inspired him to write Little Red Corvette, I think there was something else in connection to that song too

Little Richard maybe?

He did love movies from the 40s and 50s so that music was in stuff from that time

purplerabbithole said:

So where did the rockabilly, new wave, and punk influences heard in 1999 come from? Dez? they certainly wouldn't have come from Led zeppelin, James Brown, Joni Mitchell, Miles Davis, and santana.

OldFriends4Sale said:

It was a bubble they existed in for a long wonderful period of time.
Truth is no one knows of and hears everthing. Even artists we know of, everyone doesn't know the music, the alternative stuff, the obscure stuff. Prince knew of Bob Dylan, but didn't know his music.

It is easily possible when you are going 100MPH touring interviews tv shows from Europe to the States, and recording all at the same time, to not hear a lot of stuff.

I remember somewhere in the mid 1990s I was ALIVE, moved in with a girlfriend, done with college, travelling etc Music was a background to life. There was a long period of time I did not have a lot of different albums of music, that I generally would. I was still on jazz, some underground stuff house & hip hop but not really knowledgeable about a lot of music during that period.

.

I think it was 1985 he said the only/last album he like was one by Joni Mitchell. Yeah he was watching and listening, but probably from afar. I don't think he was buy albums like a regular music consumer was. I think he was watching/listening more to the inspirational stuff to like Joni Santana Led Zep. James Brown, started getting into Miles Davis etc.
.
But again the thing that made that period so explosive was that 'as he said' his 'competition' was all around him in his reflections ie the Time, Vanity 6, his band, Sheila E, etc

[Edited 7/12/17 16:34pm]

[Edited 7/12/17 18:18pm]

OldFriends4Sale said: