luvgirl said:

petalthecat said:

Do u ever get the feeling that P told several ladies in his life that he'd written a song for them. Maybe this is how the confusion arose. It's like the ultimate romantic gesture.

I remember that there were many contradictive rumors regarding TMBGITW, with some sources saying it was written for Mayte, some others claiming it was written for Vanessa Marcil, or Carmen Electra, or all of them.

KoolEaze said:

petalthecat said:

Do u ever get the feeling that P told several ladies in his life that he'd written a song for them. Maybe this is how the confusion arose. It's like the ultimate romantic gesture.

I remember that there were many contradictive rumors regarding TMBGITW, with some sources saying it was written for Mayte, some others claiming it was written for Vanessa Marcil, or Carmen Electra, or all of them.

Didn't he write TMBGITW for Mayte and gave it to her as a wedding gift?

Thanks for this thread. I don´t follow Instagram so this would´ve gone unnoticed by me if it wasn´t for this thread.

Jill Jones is one of my all time favorite associated artists in the Prince camp and I feel she never got the recognition that she rightfully deserves while others who had a less significant impact are acting as if everything revolved around them.

Too bad that Jill is still being neglected these days, with missing credits and whatnot.

She strikes me as a very genuine and honest person, even if she comes across as very direct and aggressive at times. But, then again, I find her reactions perfectly understandable.

I never had any doubts that this song was about Vanity.

KoolEaze said:

petalthecat said:

Do u ever get the feeling that P told several ladies in his life that he'd written a song for them. Maybe this is how the confusion arose. It's like the ultimate romantic gesture.

I remember that there were many contradictive rumors regarding TMBGITW, with some sources saying it was written for Mayte, some others claiming it was written for Vanessa Marcil, or Carmen Electra, or all of them.

he was also seeing Nona Gaye at that time,too no doubt,he probably told her it was about her too,lol

SoulAlive said:

KoolEaze said:

I remember that there were many contradictive rumors regarding TMBGITW, with some sources saying it was written for Mayte, some others claiming it was written for Vanessa Marcil, or Carmen Electra, or all of them.

he was also seeing Nona Gaye at that time,too no doubt,he probably told her it was about her too,lol

Not to forget Marianne.

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Didn't he write TMBGITW for Mayte and gave it to her as a wedding gift?

No

I'm telling you again. STOP FOLLOWING ME. Do not quote me, do not reply to me, skip me.

PennyPurple said:

Vashtix said:

luvgirl said:

Vashtix said:

I do not need the clarification. I am going with Vanity having it from Prince. Whatever joking around done in the studio is cool too. We know the intial inspiration was for Vanity. It is all good. [Edited 7/4/17 9:34am]

I hear ya, I was just speaking in terms of clearing It up in benefit of The revolutions and Susannah, just so people can stop thinking they have some kind of agenda involving Susannah. The stuff said on Twitter and elsewhere would probably stop.

WoW ok a Post about Jill Jones by Wendy & Lisa 3.2016

http://prince.org/msg/5/444332

OldFriends4Sale said:

luvgirl said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

WoW ok a Post about Jill Jones by Wendy & Lisa 3.2016

http://prince.org/msg/5/444332

This was a cool thing to say about Jill.

sonshine said:

PennyPurple said:

Didn't he write TMBGITW for Mayte and gave it to her as a wedding gift?

I believe the wedding gifted song was "Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife"

I think so too

"written in Tokyo while she slept"

the song was played at their Wedding reception

As it seems relevant to the discussion… let me add this.

.

Today I just discovered that Vanity and Prince continued to be romantically involved/intimate still seeing each other up into 1989.

I finally found a moment to read one of Denise earliest (typewritten) editions.

.

Describing the story / Not quoting.

Vanity had gotten tired of his phone ringing all night and into the morning. And though he may have trusted her not to stress him about women, it probably crossed his mind that “Vanity” would answer his phone. Prince just said don’t worry about it, it’s only Kim Basinger.

.

.

Quoting what she wrote would lead to another subject and that to other. I’m just try to stay on topic and trying to avoid having to put out a book.

As a Poet, for me the subject and question being, what mused those two and what drew those two?

luvgirl said:

I figured they were still seeing each other off and on throughout the 80's. There are a few interviews where she is asked if she still saw Prince. In some, she stated no (probably when they weren't) but in others, she would boldly state yes and changed the subject quickly. It was pretty obvious as well that they still saw each other after pin pointing them together and seeing pictures in which she wore one of Prince's Parade outfits at a party he threw at Tramps. No doubt he'd given it to her to wear to his party. I also read that they were spotted in VIP lounges at night clubs together a few times in the time period where they were not supposed to have been romantically involved anymore. These two could not break the ties between each other no matter how hard they tried, even after all the things they'd put each other through.. Like moth to a flame... It's kind of sad in a way.... "Her and I used to love each other very deeply..." Does anyone know how true it is that he'd given her a white snake backstage as a good luck with her career on the night she gave him the award at the 1985 AMA? She did like reptiles, I heard.. [Edited 7/8/17 12:38pm]

She mentioned receiving a Peach Rose from him on that particular evening at the 1985 AMAs, but he did give her the Albino Snake. I won't repeat the name that DeBorah gave it.

She writes about the clubs and how he'd often show up at the same place when she went out. That they would just stare at each other from across the floor, and then later...

.

Sad?

I understand what you mean but I am also beginning to understand what they always had.

All his women must have really hated her.

.

Reptiles?

She had no problems bathing with that snake. She had a raccoon living with her on the tenth floor in Manhattan. She just loved all animals. As a little girl she kissed frogs, play with pollywogs and she did have a dog.

Toban said:

She mentioned receiving a Peach Rose from him on that particular evening at the 1985 AMAs, but he did give her the Albino Snake. I won't repeat the name that DeBorah gave it.

She writes about the clubs and how he'd often show up at the same place when she went out. That they would just stare at each other from across the floor, and then later...

.

Sad?

I understand what you mean but I am also beginning to understand what they always had.

All his women must have really hated her.

.

Reptiles?

She had no problems bathing with that snake. She had a raccoon living with her on the tenth floor in Manhattan. She just loved all animals. As a little girl she kissed frogs, play with pollywogs and she did have a dog.

That really must have been awkward for Denise because I'm sure ran into several of the women Prince was seeing. We know she became friends with Susan Moonsie, Jill Jones and Sheila E but there were many others.

Also, you might be interested to know that Nikki Sixx wrote in his book 10 years ago that Prince sent Denise flowers while they were together.

Shard said:

Toban said:

She mentioned receiving a Peach Rose from him on that particular evening at the 1985 AMAs, but he did give her the Albino Snake. I won't repeat the name that DeBorah gave it.

She writes about the clubs and how he'd often show up at the same place when she went out. That they would just stare at each other from across the floor, and then later...

.

Sad?

I understand what you mean but I am also beginning to understand what they always had.

All his women must have really hated her.

.

Reptiles?

She had no problems bathing with that snake. She had a raccoon living with her on the tenth floor in Manhattan. She just loved all animals. As a little girl she kissed frogs, play with pollywogs and she did have a dog.

That really must have been awkward for Denise because I'm sure ran into several of the women Prince was seeing. We know she became friends with Susan Moonsie, Jill Jones and Sheila E but there were many others.

Also, you might be interested to know that Nikki Sixx wrote in his book 10 years ago that Prince sent Denise flowers while they were together.

I always wanted to know what it was like for her to have to present the award to Prince & the Revolution for the Purple Rain movie

They all seemed very warm and friendly. And I know that night had them full of nerves. I believe even Prince had a hard time speaking.

Toban said:

Shard said:

Toban said:

She mentioned receiving a Peach Rose from him on that particular evening at the 1985 AMAs, but he did give her the Albino Snake. I won't repeat the name that DeBorah gave it.

She writes about the clubs and how he'd often show up at the same place when she went out. That they would just stare at each other from across the floor, and then later...

.

Sad?

I understand what you mean but I am also beginning to understand what they always had.

All his women must have really hated her.

.

Reptiles?

She had no problems bathing with that snake. She had a raccoon living with her on the tenth floor in Manhattan. She just loved all animals. As a little girl she kissed frogs, play with pollywogs and she did have a dog.

That really must have been awkward for Denise because I'm sure ran into several of the women Prince was seeing. We know she became friends with Susan Moonsie, Jill Jones and Sheila E but there were many others.

Also, you might be interested to know that Nikki Sixx wrote in his book 10 years ago that Prince sent Denise flowers while they were together.

Not those women, and not what I meant about his women hating her.

Just basically having to hear about her and wonder what he was thinking.

.

Vanity... awkward? No... She could fall on her face, fall into a pond of mud or she could be dress in her best and thrown into a swimming pool. Nothing shook her, she was fearless.

Plus, rejection is part of the business. Cocoon, The Color of Money, The Color Purple are just some of the parts she didn't get.

.

I take it most do not know what she went through and how it all began.

The catalyst of their Love Hate Relationship was due to the fact that he knew she was in love with him and that she believed in his promise to make her a Star.

She had to keep it to herself which mattered most to her, while consoling and being consoled by Susan, for one; when she learned about her, after she had fallen in love with him and then moved in with him, which was on the same day.

.

She didn't just believe she knew that he had fallen in love with her, but he played with it as played out on screen. "Give me that!" She'd give it to him and he'd wouldn't return it. He'd only give and give in just enough to keep you leaning in towards him... falling.

Denise writes that he toyed with women and tossed them away. So she really could never be jealous of any of them. She most likely felt sorry for them.

.

This is how she describes their initial relationship, not what occurred between 85 to 90. Although, Kim Basinger was a turning point.

.

.

.

Nikki Sixx... I wasn't there and won't contradict anything he says. The people that have read his book seem to respect the "Evangelist Denise Matthews," DeBorah believes that he loved her and their family, that he would have done anything for anybody just because of being Denise's family, and DeBorah didn't like how Denise seemed to play with his feelings.

Even Denise referred to him as the marrying kind.

Why are flowers from Prince an issue?

.

Minnesota phones number continued to be on her phone bills long after Nikki Sixx.

At that point receiving flowers from Prince or from his publicist shouldn't have been as issue.

Unless she and their drug use made him feel insecure, which would then make sense.

[Edited 7/11/17 14:15pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Shard said:

That really must have been awkward for Denise because I'm sure ran into several of the women Prince was seeing. We know she became friends with Susan Moonsie, Jill Jones and Sheila E but there were many others.

Also, you might be interested to know that Nikki Sixx wrote in his book 10 years ago that Prince sent Denise flowers while they were together.

I always wanted to know what it was like for her to have to present the award to Prince & the Revolution for the Purple Rain movie

They all seemed very warm and friendly. And I know that night had them full of nerves. I believe even Prince had a hard time speaking.

She writes about this. It how she initially opened her autobiography beginning with that particular night.

She wrote in great detail about how excited she was to see them all and how she felt about seeing him. Wondering if that night could some how help heal the harms done.

That when she was ask to be a presenter she said she would only do it if she could present it to Prince, and with that knowledge she spent the entire day preparing and dressing for that night, that moment.

Toban said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I always wanted to know what it was like for her to have to present the award to Prince & the Revolution for the Purple Rain movie

They all seemed very warm and friendly. And I know that night had them full of nerves. I believe even Prince had a hard time speaking.

She writes about this. It how she initially opened her autobiography beginning with that particular night.

She wrote in great detail about how excited she was to see them all and how she felt about seeing him. Wondering if that night could some how help heal the harms done.

That when she was ask to be a presenter she said she would only do it if she could present it to Prince, and with that knowledge she spent the entire day preparing and dressing for that night, that moment.

thanks 4 posting that.
I've always wondered about it.
I read some stuff from different Revolution members with pleasant things about seeing her that night, and their nerves even more.

It all felt really genuine. And then seeing Vanity celebrating with Brenda & Apollonia

Indirectly related, and IMO inappropriate, but I need to get it off my chest. Was once again looking at pictures of Prince and came across one photo and it just hit me: "My God (sorry, yep that's what I said), Prince has such a nice butt". I will spare the details of everything else I said to myself, but I was thinking the picture was an anomaly and began checking out other pictures... and I guess I'm late because it wasn't. No matter how many pictures were posted, I really never realized until today what a truly... never mind. thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Anyway for me, the song is ultimately about Prince.

Toban said:

Not those women, and not what I meant about his women hating her.

Just basically having to hear about her and wonder what he was thinking.

.

Vanity... awkward? No... She could fall on her face, fall into a pond of mud or she could be dress in her best and thrown into a swimming pool. Nothing shook her, she was fearless.

Plus, rejection is part of the business. Cocoon, The Color of Money, The Color Purple are just some of the parts she didn't get.

.

I take it most do not know what she went through and how it all began.

The catalyst of their Love Hate Relationship was due to the fact that he knew she was in love with him and that she believed in his promise to make her a Star.

She had to keep it to herself which mattered most to her, while consoling and being consoled by Susan, for one; when she learned about her, after she had fallen in love with him and then moved in with him, which was on the same day.

.

She didn't just believe she knew that he had fallen in love with her, but he played with it as played out on screen. "Give me that!" She'd give it to him and he'd wouldn't return it. He'd only give and give in just enough to keep you leaning in towards him... falling.

Denise writes that he toyed with women and tossed them away. So she really could never be jealous of any of them. She most likely felt sorry for them.

.

This is how she describes their initial relationship, not what occurred between 85 to 90. Although, Kim Basinger was a turning point.

.

.

.

Nikki Sixx... I wasn't there and won't contradict anything he says. The people that have read his book seem to respect the "Evangelist Denise Matthews," DeBorah believes that he loved her and their family, that he would have done anything for anybody just because of being Denise's family, and DeBorah didn't like how Denise seemed to play with his feelings.

Even Denise referred to him as the marrying kind.

Why are flowers from Prince an issue?

.

Minnesota phones number continued to be on her phone bills long after Nikki Sixx.

At that point receiving flowers from Prince or from his publicist shouldn't have been as issue.

Unless she and their drug use made him feel insecure, which would then make sense.

[Edited 7/11/17 14:15pm]

Why was Kim Basinger the turning point?

PennyPurple said:

Toban said:

Not those women, and not what I meant about his women hating her.

Just basically having to hear about her and wonder what he was thinking.

.

Vanity... awkward? No... She could fall on her face, fall into a pond of mud or she could be dress in her best and thrown into a swimming pool. Nothing shook her, she was fearless.

Plus, rejection is part of the business. Cocoon, The Color of Money, The Color Purple are just some of the parts she didn't get.

.

I take it most do not know what she went through and how it all began.

The catalyst of their Love Hate Relationship was due to the fact that he knew she was in love with him and that she believed in his promise to make her a Star.

She had to keep it to herself which mattered most to her, while consoling and being consoled by Susan, for one; when she learned about her, after she had fallen in love with him and then moved in with him, which was on the same day.

.

She didn't just believe she knew that he had fallen in love with her, but he played with it as played out on screen. "Give me that!" She'd give it to him and he'd wouldn't return it. He'd only give and give in just enough to keep you leaning in towards him... falling.

Denise writes that he toyed with women and tossed them away. So she really could never be jealous of any of them. She most likely felt sorry for them.

.

This is how she describes their initial relationship, not what occurred between 85 to 90. Although, Kim Basinger was a turning point.

.

.

.

Nikki Sixx... I wasn't there and won't contradict anything he says. The people that have read his book seem to respect the "Evangelist Denise Matthews," DeBorah believes that he loved her and their family, that he would have done anything for anybody just because of being Denise's family, and DeBorah didn't like how Denise seemed to play with his feelings.

Even Denise referred to him as the marrying kind.

Why are flowers from Prince an issue?

.

Minnesota phones number continued to be on her phone bills long after Nikki Sixx.

At that point receiving flowers from Prince or from his publicist shouldn't have been as issue.

Unless she and their drug use made him feel insecure, which would then make sense.

[Edited 7/11/17 14:15pm]

Why was Kim Basinger the turning point?

Empathy...

Toban said:

PennyPurple said:

Why was Kim Basinger the turning point?

Empathy...

Regarding “The turning point.”

She wanted to, she needed too, and she knew the two of them couldn’t or shouldn’t continue on as they had been. Evidently they each enabled other’s bad behavior.

It was and wasn’t Kim actually, but rather that routine situation she had so often found herself in.

If you recall at all how it all began?

.

I don’t remember how she wrote it exactly… and still it wasn’t what she wrote but more what it implied in why she wrote it. As if she had finally recognized the chain events were cyclical, that they had gone full circle and it was time to get off the Merry-Go-Round.

.

I know it’s frustrating, not having her exact words on the matter, as to why she select this moment to be their last and if it was? When did she decide to do this? Did she tell him, when did he learn of it or when did he realize it and when did it sink in?

.

She did write a short story about them, that I haven’t gotten around to reading. called The Black Box. I assumed it was some tragic cautionary tale about love and lost. I flipped through it but at that time I just wasn’t ready to read it. Mainly because below the title on the front page she had written something like “When a plane goes down all that’s left is “The Black Box.” That was just a bit too much for me at the time.

However, going by other things she had said and written I would guess that, what made this event with Kim Basinger “the turning point” or different then all the rest is… is that it wasn’t.

It was a pattern.

As a pattern of practice, it doesn’t really matter if this occurred in 1989 when he was still seeing Kim or if it were after it had ended, Kim was still calling… which meant something. It should have meant something.

.

Denise had ready began to hate Vanity. She hated her drug use and she hated the direction of her career as Vanity (i.e. type casted as a sexy vixen, which always requiring nude scenes). For too long she had looked outside of herself to fill an emptiness and tried to fix it with money, a man or drugs.

.

From Susan in 83 to Kim Basinger in 89, it’s not that nothing much had changed, it’s that he and her somehow fell into a routine.

Even DeBorah dates one of their events with her returning from modeling in Italy and being picked up at the airport by her and Prince.

.

Denise wrote that she and Susan consoled each other regarding him. Prince was being Prince then and he was still being himself on this particular tryst.

However, Denise writing about it as being significant signifies a difference, a change… in herself.

.

Way back then, in her consoling Susan it reveals Denise as initially being compassionate and that she had empathy, feeling sorry for her and the other woman that followed. Which occurred during that period of his D-construction of Denise and his creation of the star called Vanity. Only now becoming fully aware of the cost. All the scars on her heart from all the many fractures and breaks along her journey had healed callous.

.

The pattern she had fallen into had gone full circle. Missing who she had been when it all began, she search to finding herself, that person she’d lost…

.

The phone ringing was annoying, but she was used to it and probably thought it was just some woman, some girl, no doubt some desperate fixated fan who didn’t know him at all. The type she had thought nothing about these past many years as she passed or stepped over them as they stood or slept in the hallway outside his hotel room.

.

The turning point, the difference this time in hear her name…

It was the revelation in the recognition of something familiar that she missed about herself and thought forever lost beneath callous.

… as she had with Susan when it all began, she recognized, remember and felt Kim’s pain.

Thank you Toban.

Toban said:

Toban said:

Empathy...

Regarding “The turning point.”

She wanted to, she needed too, and she knew the two of them couldn’t or shouldn’t continue on as they had been. Evidently they each enabled other’s bad behavior.

It was and wasn’t Kim actually, but rather that routine situation she had so often found herself in.

If you recall at all how it all began?

.

I don’t remember how she wrote it exactly… and still it wasn’t what she wrote but more what it implied in why she wrote it. As if she had finally recognized the chain events were cyclical, that they had gone full circle and it was time to get off the Merry-Go-Round.

.

I know it’s frustrating, not having her exact words on the matter, as to why she select this moment to be their last and if it was? When did she decide to do this? Did she tell him, when did he learn of it or when did he realize it and when did it sink in?

.

She did write a short story about them, that I haven’t gotten around to reading. called The Black Box. I assumed it was some tragic cautionary tale about love and lost. I flipped through it but at that time I just wasn’t ready to read it. Mainly because below the title on the front page she had written something like “When a plane goes down all that’s left is “The Black Box.” That was just a bit too much for me at the time.

However, going by other things she had said and written I would guess that, what made this event with Kim Basinger “the turning point” or different then all the rest is… is that it wasn’t.

It was a pattern.

As a pattern of practice, it doesn’t really matter if this occurred in 1989 when he was still seeing Kim or if it were after it had ended, Kim was still calling… which meant something. It should have meant something.

.

Denise had ready began to hate Vanity. She hated her drug use and she hated the direction of her career as Vanity (i.e. type casted as a sexy vixen, which always requiring nude scenes). For too long she had looked outside of herself to fill an emptiness and tried to fix it with money, a man or drugs.

.

From Susan in 83 to Kim Basinger in 89, it’s not that nothing much had changed, it’s that he and her somehow fell into a routine.

Even DeBorah dates one of their events with her returning from modeling in Italy and being picked up at the airport by her and Prince.

.

Denise wrote that she and Susan consoled each other regarding him. Prince was being Prince then and he was still being himself on this particular tryst.

However, Denise writing about it as being significant signifies a difference, a change… in herself.

.

Way back then, in her consoling Susan it reveals Denise as initially being compassionate and that she had empathy, feeling sorry for her and the other woman that followed. Which occurred during that period of his D-construction of Denise and his creation of the star called Vanity. Only now becoming fully aware of the cost. All the scars on her heart from all the many fractures and breaks along her journey had healed callous.

.

The pattern she had fallen into had gone full circle. Missing who she had been when it all began, she search to finding herself, that person she’d lost…

.

The phone ringing was annoying, but she was used to it and probably thought it was just some woman, some girl, no doubt some desperate fixated fan who didn’t know him at all. The type she had thought nothing about these past many years as she passed or stepped over them as they stood or slept in the hallway outside his hotel room.

.

The turning point, the difference this time in hear her name…

It was the revelation in the recognition of something familiar that she missed about herself and thought forever lost beneath callous.

… as she had with Susan when it all began, she recognized, remember and felt Kim’s pain.

sonshine said:

PennyPurple said:

Didn't he write TMBGITW for Mayte and gave it to her as a wedding gift?

I believe the wedding gifted song was "Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife"

Yes, that was to her. I wonder why that wasn't the name of her book? I think it would have been better- a song that she knew was for her as opposed to one that a lot of women thought was about them. I remember hearing on a Current Affair, back in the day that the most beautiful was about Vanessa Marcil.