To be fair - in a recent interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hX8ihoV2qE) Wendy states categorically that she didn't have a hand in writing the song SOTT. But...

.

I know I'm not supposed to be critical of Wendy around these parts, but come on! I can't be the only one who thinks that Wendy is at least suggesting she had more to do with SOTT than she really did:

.

Wendy: "The Sign O the Times record was... Lisa and I were given a lot of tracks. He was very busy doing a million things again and we were given tapes of general ideas and..go and finish this, go and finish that, go do that. Sign o the Times the song. Nothing to do with. That's him. But we did a lot of work on that record."

Bobby Z: "Beautiful Night and there was a lot of stuff that..."

Wendy: "Yeah, a lot of stuff. Strange Relationship. I mean there was a lot."

paulludvig said:

To be fair - in a recent interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hX8ihoV2qE) Wendy states categorically that she didn't have a hand in writing the song SOTT. But...

.

I know I'm not supposed to be critical of Wendy around these parts, but come on! I can't be the only one who thinks that Wendy is at least suggesting she had more to do with SOTT than she really did:

.

Wendy: "The Sign O the Times record was... Lisa and I were given a lot of tracks. He was very busy doing a million things again and we were given tapes of general ideas and..go and finish this, go and finish that, go do that. Sign o the Times the song. Nothing to do with. That's him. But we did a lot of work on that record."

Bobby Z: "Beautiful Night and there was a lot of stuff that..."

Wendy: "Yeah, a lot of stuff. Strange Relationship. I mean there was a lot."

Wait wait, so she claims that Prince gave her and Lisa items to finish (fact), and she also cites specific works they worked on (fact), and she also clearly identifies that the title track she didn't work on (fact).

So what's your issue then?

That's she's suggesting more?

Nope, you tried it.

Because the the very least Bobby is also agreeing with the breadth of the work they worked on ("there was a lot of stuff" ≠ "we worked on only a few tracks"). Unless you're going to start going in on Bobby.

She's not suggesting: she's outright stating that there was a lot they worked on. And Bobby is agreeing with her.

So... if we're into facts, what is factually inacurrate?

paulludvig said:

In a recent interview Wendy is asked what songs the Revolution will play on their upcoming tour. Her answer: "We will perform the catalog that belongs to our band. Everything from “I Would Die 4 U” to “Sign ‘O’ the Times.”" So now she implies that she had a hand in writing SOTT. [Edited 4/8/17 7:20am]

1. Wendy & Lisa were musically involved in Strange Relationship.

2. The Revolution & Shelia E. were involved in It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night.

Both of those tracks are on the SOTT album. So yes, Wendy was right for mentioning SOTT.

GuyBros said:

So after hearing her statements, would you think she only plays on three songs? Or would you think she worked on more?

paulludvig said:

GuyBros said:

Wait wait, so she claims that Prince gave her and Lisa items to finish (fact), and she also cites specific works they worked on (fact), and she also clearly identifies that the title track she didn't work on (fact).

So what's your issue then?

That's she's suggesting more?

Nope, you tried it.

Because the the very least Bobby is also agreeing with the breadth of the work they worked on ("there was a lot of stuff" ≠ "we worked on only a few tracks"). Unless you're going to start going in on Bobby.

She's not suggesting: she's outright stating that there was a lot they worked on. And Bobby is agreeing with her.

So... if we're into facts, what is factually inacurrate?

So after hearing her statements, would you think she only plays on three songs? Or would you think she worked on more?

I think it's that it's probably true considering her corroboration from Bobby Z (especially when Bobby says "a lot of stuff" which is not limited to "three songs") and others that Prince had in fact utilized them and worked on those specific tracks and more with them.

What is factually innacurate again?

[Edited 5/18/17 1:45am]

TonyVanDam said:

She's suggesting they did more.

paulludvig said:

TonyVanDam said:

1. Wendy & Lisa were musically involved in Strange Relationship.

2. The Revolution & Shelia E. were involved in It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night.

Both of those tracks are on the SOTT album. So yes, Wendy was right for mentioning SOTT.

She's suggesting they did more.

Nope.

She's not suggesting: she's outright stating that there was a lot they worked on. And Bobby is agreeing with her.

So... if we're into facts, what is factually inacurrate?

GuyBros said:

Technically she's not wrong. They did work on tracks around that time (just not the songs that ended up on the album). And she did work on Strange Relationship and Beautiful Night. But listening to this interview would make you think she did more work that ended up on the album. By the way, she cuts off Bobby when he is about to go into spesifics.
[Edited 5/18/17 1:52am]

paulludvig said:

she's not wrong.

Cool!

Goodnight!

GuyBros said:

Of course she's wrong if she's outright stating she did more work on SOTT than the three songs we know about. I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt here.

GuyBros said:

paulludvig said:

she's not wrong.

Cool!

Goodnight!

GuyBros said:

If she said she did more on SOTT than work on those three songs, and you seem to think that she did, then she's wrong. I would even go as far as saying she's lying to the fans.
Not cool!
Goodnight!
Goodnight

paulludvig said:

she's not wrong.

Cool!

Goodnight!

[Edited 5/18/17 11:12am]

I will take Wendy's word over the loudest outcry from fans. Wendy was actually there. Not everyone objecting to her claims was even in the same geographic state at the time but she was actually in the room, so she has the most credibility imo

XxAxX said:

She is not objective. And not truthful. In the past she has been vague enough to avoid being caught lying. Not this time I'm afraid. Next time she makes outlandish claims like these I hope that the interviewer asks some follow up questions. Like "can you be specific, which songs did you work on?" Then we can check her claims using documents and other evidence.

GuyBros said:

Cool!
Goodnight!

XxAxX said:

I will take Wendy's word over the loudest outcry from fans. Wendy was actually there. Not everyone objecting to her claims was even in the same geographic state at the time but she was actually in the room, so she has the most credibility imo

And also Bobby Z who is agreeing with her and says ""Beautiful Night and there was a lot of stuff"

So even if you doubt her credibility, as paullvidig has stated:

she's not wrong.

And we have corroboration from another Revolution member who notes that there was a lot of stuff worked on by them.

Some of ya'll is so THIRSTY though!

GuyBros said:

Wendy cuts him off when he is about to go into spesifics. So Bobby mentions Beautiful Night and Wendy mentions Strange Relationship. They are both right about that. The rest is inuendo at best. Lies at worst. I guess it depends on your definition of 'a lot of stuff'. Three songs = a lot of stuff? Not to me,but perhaps to Wendy.

The Revolution are trying to take credit for the genius that was Prince.

I cannot believe people are allowing that.

Prince was a genius-

They had years to have their own genius and need to stop trying to act as if Prince was not who he was- his music is his.

This is why I am glad he got rid of them. I imagine them taking credit for anything that came out while they were a band.

Prince got rid of them for good reason.

He had to know they were trying to own his genius.

It is sickening.

Reciprocity said:

The Revolution are trying to take credit for the genius that was Prince.

I cannot believe people are allowing that.

Prince was a genius-

They had years to have their own genius and need to stop trying to act as if Prince was not who he was- his music is his.

This is why I am glad he got rid of them. I imagine them taking credit for anything that came out while they were a band.

Prince got rid of them for good reason.

He had to know they were trying to own his genius.

It is sickening.

sensless post backed up by no facts

and u know it

paulludvig said:

Not to me,but perhaps to Wendy.

It's only lies if it's lies. And right now, you've already stated she's not wrong.

At the very least Bobby Z also agrees that the amount of input they had was on "a lot of stuff."

But as it stands right now

paulludvig said:

she's not wrong

I think we agree!

As if you are not going to biased yourself. Look at your moniker.

What matters is what Wendy means by 'lots of stuff". She could be full of shit or she could be talking about songs from their Dream Factory recordings that were done prior to the Revolution breaking up and that he supposedly scrapped. My understanding was always that they were given responsibilities to add color and arrangement and instrumental parts (from loose ideas of his) to songs he had come up with but that once the Revolution disbanded, he removed their contributions and redid the songs.

She needs to be more specific however. If she and Lisa basically were the arrangers and co-writers on all these dinky little songs he loosely came up with that were eventually and officially on the Sign of the Times album except the Sign of The Times song itself, I would think that that degree of collaboration would have been brought up much earlier. In fact, I would think that they would have sued him a long time ago.

The fact of the matter is that someone who is capable of doing the brilliant song SOTT is certainly capable of writing and arranging "She's Got the Look" all by himself as well.

What about Susan Rogers, his engineer? She basically states how autocratic Prince was with his music all the time. She was there up to that point and has nothing to gain from lying or alluding to more credit.

GuyBros said:

paulludvig said:

Not to me,but perhaps to Wendy.

It's only lies if it's lies. And right now, you've already stated she's not wrong.

At the very least Bobby Z also agrees that the amount of input they had was on "a lot of stuff."

But as it stands right now

paulludvig said:

she's not wrong

I think we agree!

[Edited 5/18/17 15:23pm]

[Edited 5/18/17 15:31pm]

[Edited 5/18/17 15:35pm]

GuyBros said:

But as it stands right now

paulludvig said:

she's wrong

I think we agree!

Cool!

Goodnight!

purplerabbithole said:

As if you are not going to biased yourself. Look at your moniker.

What matters is what Wendy means by 'lots of stuff". She could be full of shit or she could be talking about songs from their Dream Factory recordings that were done prior to the Revolution breaking up and that he supposedly scrapped. My understanding was always that they were given responsibilities to add color and arrangement and instrumental parts (from loose ideas of his) to songs he had come up with but that once the Revolution disbanded, he removed their contributions and redid the songs.

She needs to be more specific however. If she and Lisa basically were the arrangers and co-writers on all these dinky little songs he loosely came up with that were eventually and officially on the Sign of the Times album except the Sign of The Times song itself, I would think that that degree of collaboration would have been brought up much earlier. In fact, I would think that they would have sued him a long time ago.

The fact of the matter is that someone who is capable of doing the brilliant song SOTT is certainly capable of writing and arranging "She's Got the Look" all by himself as well.

What about Susan Rogers, his engineer? She basically states how autocratic Prince was with his music all the time. She was there up to that point and has nothing to gain from lying or alluding to more credit.

As to the second option - this has been the excuse made for her in the past, that she's talking about music recorded around the same time, but not necessarily music that ended up on SOTT. But this time it's difficult to interpret her statement as anything but an attempt to take credit for the music that was actually released on SOTT.

purplerabbithole said:

As if you are not going to biased yourself. Look at your moniker.

Girl, you're late. Go back to page 5 where I tell ya'll to check out the screenname AND avatar. Yeah, I love me some Prince. And that doesn't stop me from appreciating other artists too.

The difference here is: I don't pretend to be unbiased.

Some people claim to be. And you can see them changing their responses to fit their narrative.

In her defense, she could be talking about instrumentation originally added to strange Relationship by her and Lisa that was removed once he recorded it for the SOTT album.

Her vagueness is kind of a crappy move. Bobby Z might have been alluding to Dream Factory etc and she cut him either to avoid getting off track too much or to reclaim their contributions to those songs that Prince later removed. Like saying "I did all that work based on his arrangement ideas and he removed him anyhow. But I still have a right to be given credit for the work that directly or indirectly led to this album."

paulludvig said:

purplerabbithole said:

As if you are not going to biased yourself. Look at your moniker.

What matters is what Wendy means by 'lots of stuff". She could be full of shit or she could be talking about songs from their Dream Factory recordings that were done prior to the Revolution breaking up and that he supposedly scrapped. My understanding was always that they were given responsibilities to add color and arrangement and instrumental parts (from loose ideas of his) to songs he had come up with but that once the Revolution disbanded, he removed their contributions and redid the songs.

She needs to be more specific however. If she and Lisa basically were the arrangers and co-writers on all these dinky little songs he loosely came up with that were eventually and officially on the Sign of the Times album except the Sign of The Times song itself, I would think that that degree of collaboration would have been brought up much earlier. In fact, I would think that they would have sued him a long time ago.

The fact of the matter is that someone who is capable of doing the brilliant song SOTT is certainly capable of writing and arranging "She's Got the Look" all by himself as well.

What about Susan Rogers, his engineer? She basically states how autocratic Prince was with his music all the time. She was there up to that point and has nothing to gain from lying or alluding to more credit.

As to the second option - this has been the excuse made for her in the past, that she's talking about music recorded around the same time, but not necessarily music that ended up on SOTT. But this time it's difficult to interpret her statement as anything but an attempt to take credit for the music that was actually released on SOTT.

I don't pretend to be unbiased either. But I would not go on a Wendy and Lisa site and strictly focus on how Prince wrote SOTT (the song), When Doves Cry, Darling Nikki, Beautiful ones, nearly the entirety of 1999, his first two albums, most of Controversy/Dirty Mind (Lisa was there and must have contributed some) and 20 years of underrated (albeit inconsistent) post WB music, without them... Even Lisa admitted that Prince composed, performed and recorded that song(Strange Way) for her in 2-3 hours all by himself.

GuyBros said:

purplerabbithole said:

As if you are not going to biased yourself. Look at your moniker.

Girl, you're late. Go back to page 5 where I tell ya'll to check out the screenname AND avatar. Yeah, I love me some Prince. And that doesn't stop me from appreciating other artists too.

The difference here is: I don't pretend to be unbiased.

Some people claim to be. And you can see them changing their responses to fit their narrative.

[Edited 5/18/17 16:12pm]

purplerabbithole said:

she cut him either to avoid getting off track too much or to reclaim their contributions to those songs that Prince later removed.

purplerabbithole said:

I don't pretend to be unbiased either. But I would not go on a Wendy and Lisa site and strictly focus on how Prince wrote SOTT (the song), When Doves Cry, Darling Nikki, nearly the entirety of 1999 without them...

GuyBros said:

Girl, you're late. Go back to page 5 where I tell ya'll to check out the screenname AND avatar. Yeah, I love me some Prince. And that doesn't stop me from appreciating other artists too.

The difference here is: I don't pretend to be unbiased.

Some people claim to be. And you can see them changing their responses to fit their narrative.

First of all: huh?

Second of all: That's a bad analogy. What I am NOT doing is claiming the ladies wrote nearly all of SOTT without Prince. And neither is Wendy or Bobby Z.

If you think that in this thread my fact checking those who have shown to have a history of attempting to twist a narrative is at all analagous to that, that's on you.