nelcp777 said:

LBrent said:

It was a hard thing to listen to in the book.

But think about this...P was all about grand gestures. He was also a "runner" and destroyed entire houses to chase away bad memories. It saddened me to hear about the destruction of those things, but after thinking about it, I could see the grand gesture of it. In a mythological world where kingdoms and princesses and one heartbroken prince lives, destroying all evidence of tragedy in a thing. Can't you see that played out in your mind's eye in the Bible?

Add to the threads of fantasy/mythology I write about in my last post and then mix in the Bible as a book filled with kings making grand gestures to commence wars and invade countries, etc. The very theatre of it all.

But I don't think it came lightly to P. I think there's more to this story.

That urn exists. Just gotta find it.

Grand gestures, abondonement issue, brand control it doesn't matter (for me). I love my wife to death and I am thankful for her. But if we were to divorce (and I pray that never comes), no matter how much she hurts me or pisses me off, to remove the memories of our children, nope. Nothing can do that. I can be on my knees with a gun to my head, it ain't happening. Can't sell it, I ain't buying it, nor can I understand it. That is me. Sorry, do not mean to offend or argue.

It is sad, Prince was worried about being alone, loosing control. Was outspoken about bootlegs, worried about his apearance. And all those things were the opposite when he passed. I am not judging him by any means. We all have our faults, issues, demons. I know I do. It does tear at your heart though.

Oh, I agree with you and I'm not defending P's behaviour AT ALL.

I'm just trying to sort through my feelings about it all.

tmo1965 said:

jayseajay said:

I think this is really the key to it. He had defense mechanisms...immerse yourself in music, keep moving forward, repress/erase anything painful...and I also think he used seduction/romance as one of his main defenses...but that's not a full palette of coping strategies, and they all involve escapism/denial. I guess part of the problem is that they worked really really well for him mostly until he was in his mid-thirties. To be honest, I think maintaining any relationship over the long-term would have been hard for him...because, man, he was a master at romance, but romance isn't enough to sustain things in the day to day grind of things, or when the rubber hits the road...and it inclines you anyway to move on when the romance starts to fade - which it does, not matter how beautiful and captivating the story you have weaved - especially if you are a person who deals with everything by moving on. The way he treated Mayte was appaling, and that was the time when he really needed to confront himself honestly - and not in a 'God is punishing me for my sin' way, which I guess is a symptom (he'd always knew there was 'something wrong with the machinary'), but a twisted dishonest one - and do the work that was needed to deal with his past and how it had affected him. I guess however a tragedy like that is just so out of people's range of experience, people just fall back on their standard defense mechanisms. In his case, move one, weave a new romance, and in this case, add a whole new story about punishment and sin and redemption through Jehovah. That worked for him for a while as well, but again, it stopped him doing the honest work on himself he really needed to do...and he never ever learnt to do it...and it ended up where it ended up

My copy of the book arrived yesterday. I read the prologue, some of the 1st chapter, and I've skimmed through other parts of the book. The parts that I skimmed through are heart breaking. Between reading these threads and those parts of the book, I'm on the verge of tears. This story is so sad. I always wondered wheather LG and the JW religion had anything to do with the marriage breakup of Prince and M1. Now I have my answer.

LG was sticking to Prince like glue during the late '90s and early 2000's. I'm sure that he was whispering in Prince's ear against Mayte. Between LG and M2's opportunistic azz and Prince being at his most vunerable state, his marriage to Mayte did not have a chance. I think that when Mayte stopped going everywhere with him, like on that tour when she found out about M2, Prince felt abandoned. That's why he told her F you, when she refused to go to a basketball game. (Tears are rolling down my eyes right now thinking about this). It seems that Mayte was going through a depression, which makes you not want to do the things that you liked to do (I know because I've gone through it). This is where professional counselling would have helped them.

I'm not passing judgement on any party involved - well maybe a bit on LG and M2. Mayte was depressed and grieving. Prince had a hard time dealing with his grief and he felt that Mayte was abandoning him, so he abandoned her 1st. LG thought that he was doing God's work by bring Prince into the JW org. Prince was most probably telling M2 that Mayte did not want to become a JW and that Mayte left him, or who knows what he said that caused M2 feel that she was justified in running around with a married man.

Yup, I agree.

LBrent said:

nelcp777 said:

Grand gestures, abondonement issue, brand control it doesn't matter (for me). I love my wife to death and I am thankful for her. But if we were to divorce (and I pray that never comes), no matter how much she hurts me or pisses me off, to remove the memories of our children, nope. Nothing can do that. I can be on my knees with a gun to my head, it ain't happening. Can't sell it, I ain't buying it, nor can I understand it. That is me. Sorry, do not mean to offend or argue.

It is sad, Prince was worried about being alone, loosing control. Was outspoken about bootlegs, worried about his apearance. And all those things were the opposite when he passed. I am not judging him by any means. We all have our faults, issues, demons. I know I do. It does tear at your heart though.

Oh, I agree with you and I'm not defending P's behaviour AT ALL.

I'm just trying to sort through my feelings about it all.

Le Brent, sorry if my post offended you. That was not my intentions, I just vented. I never took your remarks as defending Prince. I have always enjoyed your remarks and contributions on the Org.

I am with you on sorting out your feelings.

PennyPurple said:

bashraka said:

Was Prince obligated to talk about his mother to the media and fans? People are in a rush to psycho analyze Prince like armchair quartebacks. Did it ever occur that some things Prince felt was nobody's damn business. Secondly, it's interesting to see how death really brings out the disturbing voyeurism in people who glee in people's tragedy.

Have you read the book Bashraka? We are here on this thread discussing the book. This thread isn't for insults. Thank you for your cooperation.

Yes, friend of mine lent the book to me and I'm glad I didn't buy the book. It only reaffirmed why Prince was so private and didn't trust many people.

nelcp777 said:

LBrent said:

Oh, I agree with you and I'm not defending P's behaviour AT ALL.

I'm just trying to sort through my feelings about it all.

Le Brent, sorry if my post offended you. That was not my intentions, I just vented. I never took your remarks as defending Prince. I have always enjoyed your remarks and contributions on the Org.

I am with you on sorting out your feelings.

Shugga, I'm not offended at all.

I thought I had offended you.

LBrent said:

Along the same lines as abandonment and being left to fend for himself, plus the issues surrounding celebrity and isolation...

In an early PR era or just before that, when he had just gotten a bit of fame and money, Rolling Stone article, the one where he drives the interveiwer around his hometown and at one point whispers about having promised himself not to do this again (meaning subject himself to being interveiwed)...anyway, he tells the interveiwer that he misses his freinds and he wishes they'd stop by to visit but they very rarely do and he thinks it's because THEY think that they'd be bothering him, but that HE really missed them.

He was already feeling the isolation of celebrity and how folks were starting to pull away THINKING that HE wanted to be left alone. Add to that a feeling of distrust because of new folks in his life being dishonest/untrustworthy/predatory, there's a recipe for isolation simply out of self-preservation.

So now every time someone disappoints you, it just confirms feelings of worthlessness and being unlovable.

And every bad thing that happens after that reinforces those feelings.

ROLLING STONE (1985)

---

PRINCE TALKS

BY NEAL KARLEN

"Old Friends 4 Sale" ends, and on comes "Strange Relationships," and as-yet-unreleased dance tune. "Is it too much?" asks Prince about playing his own songs in his own car. "Not long ago I was driving around L.A. with [a well-known rock star], and all he did was play his own stuff over and over. If it gets too much, just tell me."

He turns onto Plymouth, the North Side's main strip. When Martin Luther King got shot, it was Plymouth Avenue that burned. "We used to go to that McDonald's there," he says. "I didn't have any money, so I'd just stand outside there and smell stuff. Poverty makes people angry, brings out their worst side. I was very bitter when I was young. I was insecure and I'd attack anybody. I couldn't keep a girlfriend for two weeks. We'd argue about anything."

Across the street from McDonald's, Prince spies a smaller landmark. He points to a vacant corner phone booth and remembers a teenage fight with a strict and unforgiving father. "That's where I called my dad and begged him to take me back after he kicked me out," he begins softly. "He said no, so I called my sister and asked her to ask him. So she did, and afterward told me that all I had to do was call him back, tell him I was sorry, and he's take me back. So I did, and he still said no. I sat crying at that phone booth for two hours. That's the last time I cried."

In the years between that phone-booth breakdown and today's pool game came forgiveness. Says Prince, "Once I made it, got my first record contract, got my name on a piece of paper and a little money in my pocket, I was able to forgive. Once I was eating every day, I became a much nicer person." But it took many more years for the son to understand what a jazzman father needed to survive. Prince figured it out when he moved into his purple house.

An ignition turns. "Wait," calls Prince, remembering something. He grabs a tape off the T-Bird seat and yells to his father, "I got something for you to listen to. Lisa [Coleman] and Wendy [Melvoin] have been working on these in L.A." Prince throws the tape, which the two female members of his band have mixed, and his father catches it with one hand. Nelson nods okay and pulls his car behind his son's in the alley. Closely tailing Prince through North Minneapolis, he waves and smiles whenever we look back. It's impossible to believe that the gun-toting geezer in Purple Rain was modeled after John Nelson.

Nearing the turnoff that leads from Minneapolis to suburban Eden Prairie, Prince flips in another tape and peeks in the rearview mirror. John Nelson is still right behind. "It's real hard for my father to show emotion," says Prince, heading onto the highway. "He never says, 'I love you,' and when we hug or something, we bang our heads together like in some Charlie Chaplin movie. But a while ago, he was telling me how I always had to be careful. My father told me, 'If anything happens to you, I'm gone.' All I thought at first was that it was a real nice thing to say. But then I thought about it for a while and realized something. That was my father's way of saying 'I love you.'"

"I'm not used to this," mumbles Prince, staring straight ahead through the windshield of his parked car. "I really thought I'd never do interviews again." we drive for twenty minutes, talking about Minnesota's skies, air and cops. Gradually, his voice comes up, bringing with it inflections, hand gestures and laughs.

People seem to think you live in an armed monastery that you've built in honor of yourself.

First off, I don't live in a prison with armed guards around me. The reason I have a guy outside is that after the movie, all kinds of people started coming over and hanging out. That wasn't so bad, but the neighbors got upset that people were driving by blasting their boxes or standing outside and singing. I happen to dig that. That's one reason I'm going to move to more land. There, if people want to come by, it will be fine. Sometimes it gets lonely here. To be perfectly honest, I wish more of my friends would come by.

Friends?

Musicians, people I know. A lot of the time they think I don't want to be bothered. When I told Susannah [Melvoin] that you were coming over, she said, "Is there something I can do? Do you want me to come by to make it seem like you have friends coming by?" I said no, that would be lying. And she just put her head down, because she knew she doesn't come by to see me as much as she wants to, or as much as she thinks I want her to. It was interesting. See, you did something good, and you didn't even know it.

Are you afraid to ask your friends to come by?

I'm kind of afraid. That's because sometimes everybody in the band comes over, and we have very long talks. They're few and far between, and I do a lot of the talking. Whenever we're done, one of them will come up to me and say, "Take care of yourself. You know I really love you." I think they love me so much, and I love them so much, that if they came over all the time I wouldn't be able to be to them what I am, and they wouldn't be able to do for me as what they do. I think we all need our individual spaces, and when we come together with what we've concocted in our heads, it's cool.

LBrent said:

nelcp777 said:

Le Brent, sorry if my post offended you. That was not my intentions, I just vented. I never took your remarks as defending Prince. I have always enjoyed your remarks and contributions on the Org.

I am with you on sorting out your feelings.

Shugga, I'm not offended at all.

I thought I had offended you.

Never offended. Much love for you.

Chapter 7

Technically, he didn't leave her. He just banished her to Spain and started a new relationship with someone else...and used new female muses and proteges in his work. Smh.

206Michelle said:

LBrent said:

I did something really dumb and listened to some songs from the "handshake era" and now all I wanna do is punch P.

What an azzhat.

I hate feeling this way about him, but...

Whatever you do, don't listen to She Spoke To Me.

Whatever you do, don't listen to She Loves Me For Me, either.

P

[Edited 4/7/17 21:44pm]

LBrent,

I totally get what U are saying about She Loves Me 4 Me. But What's wrong with She Spoke to Me? That song is from 1996. Am I missing something about She Spoke to Me?

..

U know what made me mad at him and want 2 slap him was seeing that note he wrote 2 Mayte in 1994-1995 when he writes " will never leave u" over and over again. (I still haven't gotten 2 chapter 6 yet, where that note is, but I was flipping through the pages of the book and came across that note, and it caught my because of all the in it.) At first, I was like, wow, this note is so loving...and it really is. But then I think about what happened 2 them and, I mean seriously Prince, how can u write that kind of a note 2 a woman and then 4 years later u are asking for an "annulment"? I realize that 4 years is kind of a long time, and they dealt with losing a child, and all of that. But the way he wrote that note, he sounded so firm in his conviction that he would love Mayte forever. Except 4 his love of music and guitars, he was very fickle about many things, including the women he loved.

I have always noted that part of the video with the pregnant belly. It shatters me every time. What is he trying to say????

jayseajay said:

LBrent said:

I did something really dumb and listened to some songs from the "handshake era" and now all I wanna do is punch P.

What an azzhat.

I hate feeling this way about him, but...

Whatever you do, don't listen to She Spoke To Me.

Whatever you do, don't listen to She Loves Me For Me, either.

P

[Edited 4/7/17 21:44pm]

I also rewatched the video for the Greatest Romance again last night, so I'm kinda with you on that vibe as well, and I hate feeling like that too. I guess we never really knew the timeline exactly before...the thought of her being in Spain waiting for him and then having to see that. And I'd never really clocked it before, but there's this whole thing at the end with him putting his hand on the woman's belly, and then it growing. GAH.

I noticed Mayte had no problem mentioning Carmen Elektra and how she dated Prince. However, with Nona Gaye she was strictly business when she mentioned her. Hmmm...I wonder why she didn't note that the two of them were an item.

rednblue said:

NotACleverName said:

I remember reading a thread, or maybe just a few posts, on the org fairly recently about Prince's performance at the 22nd Annual AMAs (Prince was honored this particular evening and performed BJB/Hate U/319).....there was some speculation about whether or not he was upset with Mayte that evening. Does anyone else remember these posts? Anyhoo....to the point. She goes into detail about this performance and rehearsals (she mentions his surprise reveal and how the show censors were keeping an eye on them!) in Chapter 2 or 3. Not quite sure which. So, folks were speculating that he was saying something, at the end of the performance, to Mayte in a not so nice or angry way. Well, he wasn't. He said to her "Cool?". She said she agreed with him then stepped back so he could have his moment. He wasn't upset with her at all! That was nice to know and have cleared up. For me, anyway.

Very glad you mentioned this! That was nagging at me too. Loved Mayte's dancing. Bittersweet to see Nona.

Beautiful ones, indeed. I wish them well.

It's been bugging me, but if they did the do after the 7 video shoot, then that would have been 1992, correct? Her diary entry said 93 but 7 came out in 92. February 92. She would have been 18, not 19. This makes more sense. I don't see him sitting on a legal golden goose over a year after courting her since 16. IJS.

purplerabbithole said:

Why was he manipulative? Was it just that He just wanted to get this girl in the sack at 19 because he knew eventually he would be able to ruin a highly lucrative career as a belly dancer, marry her and use his defective genes to give her the biggest heartbreak of her life.

Maybe he meant that soulmate stuff at the time he said it but couldn't proceed right away because of her age and other circumstances. As for the other women, I really don't know what he told them. Obviously, he thought he was in for the long haul with Mayte. They knew each ten years, got married and attempted to have kids twice.

LoriJ said:

LBrent said: I think manipulative is another appropiate word.

I agree; LG filled the fatherly role. And guess what? That Vibe show that Mayte talks about, where LG talks about Stauros? Mani was watching that too. So when she arrived at Minnesota, she knew which church she better attend if she wanted to 'bump in' to P.

206Michelle said:

morningsong said:

His dad.

Or the absence of his dad. was in need in fatherly guidance and his dad was not/did not provide that guidance. So instead, LG filled that fatherly role.

purplerabbithole said:

This goes back to the whole issue of free will. Prince could have sought out professional help for his abandonment issues. He certainly had the means to receive top-notch professional help. He could have sought out professional help in order to deal with the loss of his son. Maybe he did, but I suspect that he did not receive professional help. Instead, he decided to believe the nonsense that his son's death was a punishment from God. He decided to have everything reminding him of Amiir and Mayte destroyed, including Amiir's ashes.

How can Prince deal with abandonment issues when its all he knows. People weren't honest with the man so its hard to know one's self when that's the case. Fame makes it even more difficult to know what people's intentions. Prince once said that he liked people but found himself testing them...Of course, we don't know if Prince evolved in the last years of his life. Later on, HE was an isolated oddball, but even his proteges seemed more like collaborators and he seemed more respectful. His later relationships might have been brief but not too overly dramatic.

Often times what happens with artists is that they rely too much on their art for theraputic purposes. Medication, therapy etc can alter the 'genius', strip it of its edge. Maybe Prince worried that would happen and I think he distrusted the medical community so medical/psychological help might have been something he shied away from..

Not sure if he got any help for his issues, but I do recall him telling Sheila that he took up JW's partly because he wanted to relate to people more. Religion, even cults, offer a sense of community. HIs relationship with Mayte seemed to be just all about the two of them..all consuming, isolating for both of them. I wish he had found a different religious community. But it was a community--it may have ruined his marriages, stripped his edge, isolated him, and impacted his health, but it might have also humbled him and made him a bit more community minded.

The fact that he never married again after Manuela might just mean he accepted his limitations and didn't wish his baggage on others. Ultimately he spent the rest of his life being pretty much harmless.

Another interesting tidbit...In 2011, Brenda from Apollonia 6 made a good point about Prince. She wanted to see him again after many years..she and Susan Moonsie. When they were actually able to finally hook up with him back stage after a concert, They discovered that Prince was overjoyed to see them and spent an hour talking to Brenda's son. Hooking up with Prince was tough because the protocols and isolations around a celebrity as protected as Prince can be tough to break through or overwhelm. But, He didn't even know they were looking to talk to him and was pleasantly suprised once they did. Fame and the isolation it entails can mess with the healthiest of people and prince wasn't the healthiest of people.

Last point..someone said no one ever said no to him. I actually get the feeling that his childhood was full of people saying "no"--which I theorize is why he never accepted 'no' as an answer as an adult.. However, I must say fate dealt him plenty of "no"s..NO children (possible his genetics),, no height, no more high record sales, no sleep, no peace. I wouldn't want Prince's life.

PennyPurple, I totally agree.

.

Like I said, while he probably had some serious attachment issues from childhood over which he had no control, once he became an adult, it was within his control to deal with these traumatic experiences. He prayed. He made music. He could have gotten therapy. Maybe he did go to therapy. In my opinion, if he did, it wasn't enough.

.

Therapy can be hard, very hard. But sometimes, life throws things at a person that overwhelms his or her coping skills. In these situations, often times the only thing that a person can do is to (a) admit that he or she can't handle the issues and (b) seek help/support for dealing with the issues.

.

This goes back to the whole issue of free will. Prince could have sought out professional help for his abandonment issues. He certainly had the means to receive top-notch professional help. He could have sought out professional help in order to deal with the loss of his son. Maybe he did, but I suspect that he did not receive professional help. Instead, he decided to believe the nonsense that his son's death was a punishment from God. He decided to have everything reminding him of Amiir and Mayte destroyed, including Amiir's ashes.

.

There's no denying it, he made bad choices. Me left Mayte and did her dirty. He married Manuela, and what happened...5 years later, they got a divorce. He never should have married Mani.

.

I love the man, I love his music, but he was a flawed genius. And when it came to his personal relationships, he was a mess, a boiling hot mess. I won't stop loving him because of his flaws and his bad choices. I acknowledge the bad things that he did, I don't like the bad things that he did, but I can't hate the man. His music means too much to me. Shoot, Mayte still loves him, and if SHE can love him in spite of everything that he did to her, then I can give him my fan love too.

purplerabbithole,

My response 2 u is long, but please hear me out on this. Also, please know that what am saying comes from a place of love, and is in no way meant 2 hurt u or ridicule u.

.

Based on your response to my post, I think that u are in denial. U are fearful. U love Prince. U love his music. U are experiencing a conflict right now because u love him, but u also know that he did some really bad things 2 Mayte. He f**ked up. He made some really bad choices.

.

U are confused. U don't know what 2 do. U have cognitive dissonance. U love this man and his music. If u stop loving him and his music, it will break your heart. U don't want 2 let go of him or his music. (None of us do). U don't know how 2 resolve this conflict. U don't know how 2 reconcile your love 4 Prince and 4 his music with the bad things that he did 2 Mayte.

.

Right now, think that u are trying 2 resolve this conflict by hiding from the truth, by excusing what he did, and by explaining it away. U are in denial. U are trying 2 excuse his bad choices as being the result of him being abandoned because abandonment was all he knew. Face the truth: What he did 2 Mayte was inexcusable. What he did 2 her was wrong. There is no way around it.

.

believe that his abandonement/attachment issues were real. believe that his trust issues were real. believe that he had no control over being abandoned as a child. As another orger so brilliantly said, Prince had within him the seeds 4 his own destruction. Personally, think that the seeds 4 destruction were the abandonment/attachment/trust issues.

.

believe that he had a choice as 2 how he dealt with the trust/abandonment/attachment issues. Once he became an adult, he had some control over how he dealt with those issues. HE COULD HAVE MADE CHANGES. But 4 reasons that we will probably never fully know, he did not make the necessary changes that would have allowed him 2 move past the trust/abandonment/attachment issues so that he could sustain a healthy marriage 4 the long haul. He sabatoged his marriage 2 Mayte. He and Maneula divorced also. He ended up alone. And as another orger stated so brilliantly, his life ended as a Greek tragedy, Chanhassen style.

.

Instead of making the choice 2 do the hard work of dealing with his abandonment/attachment/trust issues, allowed the abandonment/attachment/trust issues 2 control him. He allowed the abandonment/attachment/trust issues to control him because he never chose to deal with these issues. Instead of dealing with them, he would try to avoid them, try 2 escape them, try 2 work his way and forget his way out of his abandonment/attachment/trust issues.

.

Now back 2 u, purplerabbithole. Again, am saying what am saying from love. think that u do not want 2 face the truth about Prince because the TRUTH HURTS! U want 2 love Prince and his music and still be able 2 live with yourself. Facing this fear is painful. Facing the truth about Prince is painful. But u must work through this conflict so that u can be free.

.

can see that u don't want 2 abandon him like his parents did. (None of us Prince fans do.) U are afraid 2 admit that he was wrong 4 what he did 2 Mayte. U are afraid that what he did was so bad that u cannot love him anymore. U want 2 love him because his music means something 2 u. U must resolve this conflict 4 yourself. But u must accept the truth. U cannot explain away what he did. U cannot excuse it. U cannot justify it. U cannot blame it on his childhood. U must accept the truth that HE WAS WRONG 4 what he did 2 Mayte. Accept the truth about him and FORGIVE HIM. Mayte has forgiven him. Mayte still loves him. If she can forgive him and still love him, then feel that can forgive him also and still love him also.

.

Speaking 4 myself, have decided that what he did 2 Mayte was wrong, but can still love him. If Mayte can still love him, then can still love him. want 2 keep loving him because his music means a lot 2 me. accept that my choice 2 love him has consequences. accept that some people may question my integrity, my values, and/or my moral code. accept those possible consequences. accept that people may disagree with me and may ridicule me 4 choosing 2 still love Prince. And if they do, so be it. will face those consequences if they come.

.

believe that will face my Creator when leave this world and will let Him decide what 2 do with me. hope that he allows me into Heaven. don't think am going 2 go 2 Hell 4 loving Prince and his music in spite of the bad things that he did. think that God has more important things 2 consider than whether or not love the flawed genius who is/was Prince. (It's entirely possible that could be wrong about what God thinks.)

.

have decided that WILL NOT ABANDON PRINCE! He is not God. will openly admit that worship his guitar playing. love his music. also accept that he was an imperfect, flawed human being. He was very loving at times 2 Mayte and their son, but overall, do not respect how he treated her, especially at the end of their marriage. He was wrong 4 what he did 2 Mayte. And will not make excuses for his bad behavior. will let God judge him.

.

Prince's music is meaningful enough 2 me that will continue 2 love him as a fan. recognize him as a fellow human being who means something 2 me. recognize that while he was deeply flawed and often sinful and often acted like an a**hole, HE IS STILL WORTHY OF MY LOVE. Flaws and all, he is still worthy of my love.

.

have made my decision. U must face the truth and decide 4 yourself if u can still love him. No 1 else can make the decision 4 u. U must make that decision 4 yourself.

[Edited 4/11/17 11:20am]

Strawberrylova123 said:

Chapter 7

Don't know if everyone is ready for Chapter 7 yet. I'LL let you know.

As of right now we are still on Chapter 6

[Edited 4/11/17 11:27am]

[Edited 4/11/17 11:27am]

[Edited 4/11/17 11:28am]

sonshine said:

This subject matter is very personal to me as I too was raised in a home with an emotionally absent mother, and no female siblings for support which I always felt would have made my situation more bearable. Sometimes my issues due to my childhood seem too much to overcome, and i had the added benefit of a father who was present and did his best to make up for my mother's shortcomings. In prince's case his father was also absent to some degree and there was a step-father dynamic to cope with as well. He had to have been near toxic to get involved with and I don't say that as a criticism about him at all. To me it's totally reasonable that his treatment of others throughout his life could be blamed on his upbringing free will be damned. The only problem with that is the simple fact that he was intelligent enough to know right from wrong. He also seemed to be very sure of the existence of God and what God expected of those who followed him/her. He was apparently riddled with guilt if he even suspected for a moment that his child's death was pay back for his lifestyle. Yet he still went on to play Mayte dirty. He allowed others outside of his marriage to influence him to the point he discarded sacred vows he made to another person. That to me was his greatest mistake and the main reason I could never take anything serious he says about God or religion. I didn't have to live with him or even trust him which is why I've been able to remain a fan, and nothing ive learned yet, or expect to learn, has changed my feelings towards him as a performer, musician, or philanthropist.

sonshine, I agree with you 100%.

jayseajay said:

206Michelle said:

A person has to be willing to change. The willingness to change is a matter of choice with most people, and Prince certainly was smart enough and functioned well enough that he could have changed if he wanted to do so. (I say most people because some people with significant disabilities might not be able to change so easily, or at all. Prince did not have a significant disability.) Prince had attachment/abandonment issues, and he didn't deal with those issues appropriately. One consequence of not dealing with his issues was that he left/pushed away the one woman who truly loved him.

I think this is really the key to it. He had defense mechanisms...immerse yourself in music, keep moving forward, repress/erase anything painful...and I also think he used seduction/romance as one of his main defenses...but that's not a full palette of coping strategies, and they all involve escapism/denial. I guess part of the problem is that they worked really really well for him mostly until he was in his mid-thirties. To be honest, I think maintaining any relationship over the long-term would have been hard for him...because, man, he was a master at romance, but romance isn't enough to sustain things in the day to day grind of things, or when the rubber hits the road...and it inclines you anyway to move on when the romance starts to fade - which it does, not matter how beautiful and captivating the story you have weaved - especially if you are a person who deals with everything by moving on. The way he treated Mayte was appaling, and that was the time when he really needed to confront himself honestly - and not in a 'God is punishing me for my sin' way, which I guess is a symptom (he'd always knew there was 'something wrong with the machinary'), but a twisted dishonest one - and do the work that was needed to deal with his past and how it had affected him. I guess however a tragedy like that is just so out of people's range of experience, people just fall back on their standard defense mechanisms. In his case, move one, weave a new romance, and in this case, add a whole new story about punishment and sin and redemption through Jehovah. That worked for him for a while as well, but again, it stopped him doing the honest work on himself he really needed to do...and he never ever learnt to do it...and it ended up where it ended up

100% agree with you, jayseajay.

NickiStarr said:

Mayte was much too gracious to Manuela. I have zero respect for women who cannot regard the boundaries that marriage provide. While I understand that Prince was complicit in the demise of his marriage and his eventual neglect of the promise to "forsake all others", let's be honest, men have their weakness. As has been mentioned before, this was a time, perhaps THE time, when Prince was at his most vulnerable. No question that LG preyed on that vulnerability (my thoughts? what a coup to "recruit" such a visible, wealthy, global star into the JW fold. yes, this would definitely reflect well on LG in the eyes of the elders. successful proselytizing IS a fundamental function of JW members). Prince was an easy target. Having said that, I do believe LG's core motivation was most likely to help Prince find some peace in his life, Manuela's motivation was selfish. Every calculated move was made to her benefit, not Prince's. The most calculating of all....embracing the JW religion. Because, currently, all signs point to the fact that she is no longer practicing the JW faith. So, to relinquish that, upon her divorce from Prince is veritable proof of her true intentions. After all, Prince introduced Bria to the JW faith and after she and Prince split, she married a man of the faith, in the faith. That says it all.

Yes, I love Devin's book! She is cool in my book. Not because of the dish, but because she's a cool, classy lady.

Strawberrylova123 said:

LBrent said:

This is my personal opinion and I have no facts to back it up obviously, but I think P was simply a basic "meat & potatoes" kinda guy.

If you want sex dish, read devin devasquez book

Thank you for starting this thread, some of the comments here help to overcome the sadness of reading this book. When I read all the positive comments during the first few days after the book was published, I rushed to nearest Target and bought it. Now I cry because I feel so sad for what happened to/between them, for reading what happened (knowing he was so private), sad because there is no way to turn back time and for his life to have a happy ending. However, I'm glad she still has the opportunity to rebuild her life with her daughter and find love again.

[Edited 4/11/17 12:17pm]

I completely agree. M2 is a cunning, sneaky fox. College educated, pretty...P was vulnerable and coming off of a horrible transition professionally. LG and his wife moved into his guest house- probably rent free, recorded music- again free, and preached to him. All things point to LG's selfishness as well. He stood back and watch Mayte get cut out of her own life. In his mind, if she's not a believer she is 'not good for Prince'. I can her the conversations now. I imagine LG contributed to P exing off Mayte. 'Concerns about her faith', etc... And boom- here comes Mani who 'happens' to work on the charity, 'carefree'- no make up...a perfect JW. Trust me, he had spoken about it in magazines and on TV, that chick did her research and became who she needed to be before landing in MN.

NotACleverName said:

NickiStarr said:

I agree; LG filled the fatherly role. And guess what? That Vibe show that Mayte talks about, where LG talks about Stauros? Mani was watching that too. So when she arrived at Minnesota, she knew which church she better attend if she wanted to 'bump in' to P.

Mayte was much too gracious to Manuela. I have zero respect for women who cannot regard the boundaries that marriage provide. While I understand that Prince was complicit in the demise of his marriage and his eventual neglect of the promise to "forsake all others", let's be honest, men have their weakness. As has been mentioned before, this was a time, perhaps THE time, when Prince was at his most vulnerable. No question that LG preyed on that vulnerability (my thoughts? what a coup to "recruit" such a visible, wealthy, global star into the JW fold. yes, this would definitely reflect well on LG in the eyes of the elders. successful proselytizing IS a fundamental function of JW members). Prince was an easy target. Having said that, I do believe LG's core motivation was most likely to help Prince find some peace in his life, Manuela's motivation was selfish. Every calculated move was made to her benefit, not Prince's. The most calculating of all....embracing the JW religion. Because, currently, all signs point to the fact that she is no longer practicing the JW faith. So, to relinquish that, upon her divorce from Prince is veritable proof of her true intentions. After all, Prince introduced Bria to the JW faith and after she and Prince split, she married a man of the faith, in the faith. That says it all.

rosylo said:

Yes....thanks PennyPurple! This has been such an interesting discussion. So many profound insights have been shared. There are a lot of very thoughtful, caring, passionate, intelligent Prince fans here! I firmly believe his fan base will not let his legacy falter.....whatever stories come to light.

Hope you stick around, rosylo, and participate in the discussion!

NickiStarr said:[quote]

I completely agree. M2 is a cunning, sneaky fox. College educated, pretty...P was vulnerable and coming off of a horrible transition professionally. LG and his wife moved into his guest house- probably rent free, recorded music- again free, and preached to him. All things point to LG's selfishness as well. He stood back and watch Mayte get cut out of her own life. In his mind, if she's not a believer she is 'not good for Prince'. I can her the conversations now. I imagine LG contributed to P exing off Mayte. 'Concerns about her faith', etc... And boom- here comes Mani who 'happens' to work on the charity, 'carefree'- no make up...a perfect JW. Trust me, he had spoken about it in magazines and on TV, that chick did her research and became who she needed to be before landing in MN.

NotACleverName said:

NickiStarr said:

I agree; LG filled the fatherly role. And guess what? That Vibe show that Mayte talks about, where LG talks about Stauros? Mani was watching that too. So when she arrived at Minnesota, she knew which church she better attend if she wanted to 'bump in' to P.

Mayte was much too gracious to Manuela. I have zero respect for women who cannot regard the boundaries that marriage provide. While I understand that Prince was complicit in the demise of his marriage and his eventual neglect of the promise to "forsake all others", let's be honest, men have their weakness. As has been mentioned before, this was a time, perhaps THE time, when Prince was at his most vulnerable. No question that LG preyed on that vulnerability (my thoughts? what a coup to "recruit" such a visible, wealthy, global star into the JW fold. yes, this would definitely reflect well on LG in the eyes of the elders. successful proselytizing IS a fundamental function of JW members). Prince was an easy target. Having said that, I do believe LG's core motivation was most likely to help Prince find some peace in his life, Manuela's motivation was selfish. Every calculated move was made to her benefit, not Prince's. The most calculating of all....embracing the JW religion. Because, currently, all signs point to the fact that she is no longer practicing the JW faith. So, to relinquish that, upon her divorce from Prince is veritable proof of her true intentions. After all, Prince introduced Bria to the JW faith and after she and Prince split, she married a man of the faith, in the faith. That says it all.

[/quot
[Edited 4/11/17 12:38pm]

rosylo said:

Thank you for starting this thread, some of the comments here help to overcome the sadness of reading this book. When I read all the positive comments during the first few days after the book was published, I rushed to nearest Target and bought it. Now I cry because I feel so sad for what happened to/between them, for reading what happened (knowing he was so private), sad because there is no way to turn back time and for his life to have a happy ending. However, I'm glad she still has the opportunity to rebuild her life with her daughter and find love again.

[Edited 4/11/17 12:17pm]

You are welcome, everyone. I'm glad it has stayed civil.

NickiStarr said:

I completely agree. M2 is a cunning, sneaky fox. College educated, pretty...P was vulnerable and coming off of a horrible transition professionally. LG and his wife moved into his guest house- probably rent free, recorded music- again free, and preached to him. All things point to LG's selfishness as well. He stood back and watch Mayte get cut out of her own life. In his mind, if she's not a believer she is 'not good for Prince'. I can her the conversations now. I imagine LG contributed to P exing off Mayte. 'Concerns about her faith', etc... And boom- here comes Mani who 'happens' to work on the charity, 'carefree'- no make up...a perfect JW. Trust me, he had spoken about it in magazines and on TV, that chick did her research and became who she needed to be before landing in MN.

NotACleverName said:

NickiStarr said: Mayte was much too gracious to Manuela. I have zero respect for women who cannot regard the boundaries that marriage provide. While I understand that Prince was complicit in the demise of his marriage and his eventual neglect of the promise to "forsake all others", let's be honest, men have their weakness. As has been mentioned before, this was a time, perhaps THE time, when Prince was at his most vulnerable. No question that LG preyed on that vulnerability (my thoughts? what a coup to "recruit" such a visible, wealthy, global star into the JW fold. yes, this would definitely reflect well on LG in the eyes of the elders. successful proselytizing IS a fundamental function of JW members). Prince was an easy target. Having said that, I do believe LG's core motivation was most likely to help Prince find some peace in his life, Manuela's motivation was selfish. Every calculated move was made to her benefit, not Prince's. The most calculating of all....embracing the JW religion. Because, currently, all signs point to the fact that she is no longer practicing the JW faith. So, to relinquish that, upon her divorce from Prince is veritable proof of her true intentions. After all, Prince introduced Bria to the JW faith and after she and Prince split, she married a man of the faith, in the faith. That says it all.

It was LG's wife too. I don't think I could have stood it with LG and his wife, Mayte has much more patience then I do.

NickiStarr, Prince left Mayte. You can call it banishing her to Spain or whatever else you want. However one chooses to slice the situation, he left her. He moved on from her. He turned his back on Mayte and the marriage vows he made to her. He burned the things reminding him of her and Amiir, including his ashes. He was being unfaithful to Mayte by seeing Mani (regardless of whether he and Mani had sex or not). He was feeling up on a woman in The Greatest Romance Ever Sold video. He was a douchebag at the end of his first marriage. He made bad choices. He was wrong. Stop denying his inexcusable behavior. Accept the truth about what he did to Mayte. Then decide how you can reconcile his actions with your love for him and his music, make your decision, and move on from this issue. Personally, I choose to love him and his music, flaws and all. I love him and his music, but I will not make excuses for the bad things that he did.

NickiStarr said:

[Edited 4/11/17 13:15pm]

I have also noticed some inconsistencies with dates in the book. It looks she could have used a fact-check of the final manuscript before publication.

NickiStarr said:

I agree with you 100 % NickiStarr. M2 knew exactly what to do to land P. I read a few years ago she reached out to M1 and apologized, home wrecking bitch. It's all really sad. M1 was too young, immature and niave. I'm sure today she would have handled everything differently. I haven't read the book yet but I bougth it. I think it's wrong of M1 to have written it. P would have never approved. It bothers me that she's playing the greiving widow for profit. If she really did love him like she claims she wouldn't have written it.

NickiStarr said:

I completely agree. M2 is a cunning, sneaky fox. College educated, pretty...P was vulnerable and coming off of a horrible transition professionally. LG and his wife moved into his guest house- probably rent free, recorded music- again free, and preached to him. All things point to LG's selfishness as well. He stood back and watch Mayte get cut out of her own life. In his mind, if she's not a believer she is 'not good for Prince'. I can her the conversations now. I imagine LG contributed to P exing off Mayte. 'Concerns about her faith', etc... And boom- here comes Mani who 'happens' to work on the charity, 'carefree'- no make up...a perfect JW. Trust me, he had spoken about it in magazines and on TV, that chick did her research and became who she needed to be before landing in MN.

NotACleverName said:

NickiStarr said: Mayte was much too gracious to Manuela. I have zero respect for women who cannot regard the boundaries that marriage provide. While I understand that Prince was complicit in the demise of his marriage and his eventual neglect of the promise to "forsake all others", let's be honest, men have their weakness. As has been mentioned before, this was a time, perhaps THE time, when Prince was at his most vulnerable. No question that LG preyed on that vulnerability (my thoughts? what a coup to "recruit" such a visible, wealthy, global star into the JW fold. yes, this would definitely reflect well on LG in the eyes of the elders. successful proselytizing IS a fundamental function of JW members). Prince was an easy target. Having said that, I do believe LG's core motivation was most likely to help Prince find some peace in his life, Manuela's motivation was selfish. Every calculated move was made to her benefit, not Prince's. The most calculating of all....embracing the JW religion. Because, currently, all signs point to the fact that she is no longer practicing the JW faith. So, to relinquish that, upon her divorce from Prince is veritable proof of her true intentions. After all, Prince introduced Bria to the JW faith and after she and Prince split, she married a man of the faith, in the faith. That says it all.

Regarding Manuela, she knew she was messing with a married man and she was wrong for it. She got what she wanted...for a few years. And then she and Prince's marriage fell apart too. And guess what? I have not a shred of sympathy for her. She set herself up for that mess...being locked out and cut off from his money. She set herself up when she became involved with a married man. Prince was wrong for messing with Mani while still married to Mayte. It takes 2 to tango. But you don't mess with a married man, bottom line, end of story.

Strawberrylova123 said:[quote]

NickiStarr said:

musica said:

I agree with you 100 % NickiStarr. M2 knew exactly what to do to land P. I read a few years ago she reached out to M1 and apologized, home wrecking bitch. It's all really sad. M1 was too young, immature and niave. I'm sure today she would have handled everything differently. I haven't read the book yet but I bougth it. I think it's wrong of M1 to have written it. P would have never approved. It bothers me that she's playing the greiving widow for profit. If she really did love him like she claims she wouldn't have written it.

NickiStarr said:

I completely agree. M2 is a cunning, sneaky fox. College educated, pretty...P was vulnerable and coming off of a horrible transition professionally. LG and his wife moved into his guest house- probably rent free, recorded music- again free, and preached to him. All things point to LG's selfishness as well. He stood back and watch Mayte get cut out of her own life. In his mind, if she's not a believer she is 'not good for Prince'. I can her the conversations now. I imagine LG contributed to P exing off Mayte. 'Concerns about her faith', etc... And boom- here comes Mani who 'happens' to work on the charity, 'carefree'- no make up...a perfect JW. Trust me, he had spoken about it in magazines and on TV, that chick did her research and became who she needed to be before landing in MN.

You might feel differently after reading it.