purplerabbithole said:

Actually I am not badmouthing the book here.

I am challenging some of ISasha's notions. If he/she likes Mayte, then he/she would have to believe in her sincerity when she says this book is a love story and he/she should maybe read the book with that in mind? Didn't Mayte in her book refer to the "good, bad, beautiful, and sad" of Prince. ISasha is either focusing on only the 'bad' or Mayte missed the mark in depicting the 'good', "beautiful' and "sad".

Plus, hating on JW's/Manuela as a result of this book would mean that hated what happened to Prince's and Mayte's relationship as a result...Why? If he is completely unsympathetic?

Oh, and are people only allowed to like the book on this thread? You can Call me out for having not read the whole thing. But dictating what people should feel about the book on this thread is unfair. By the way, I probably will read the entire book. I have read a ton by osmosis, snippets, etc, but I don't have the heart to give her money for it right now. I probably will check it out of a library.

DD55 said:

Right now we are discussing the book chapter by chapter. We are not commenting on the book overall. If you want to bad mouth the book there are other threads for that.

[Edited 4/15/17 7:45am]

[Edited 4/15/17 7:48am]

[Edited 4/15/17 7:53am]

Purple, My humble apologies if i misread your statement's intent. Right now we are discussing Chapter 10, Penny will ok when to go chapter 11. I read the statements as a judgment of the book overall, and not a comment on the chapters we were discussing. Again my apologies.

1Sasha said:

I can like Mayte but disagree with her analysis. She, however, lived her life and can relate firsthand what happened from her perspective. As for my other feelings: they are mine and I can have them, as those who disagree with me have theirs.

You are correct Sasha.

CooperC62057 said:

Once everyone has read the entire book and has time to reflect, it will be very interesting to discuss particular events such as the suspected "male assistant" being upset by being asked to burn the belongings. It is one of the most upsetting events of the story to me. Food for thought in the meantime though - perhaps he did keep the ashes. I find it hard to believe, as attentive as he was to Amir in his short little life that P would disrespect his remains. He chose an urn for them - indicating this would be where they would remain. I find it very strange that the urn for P is a replica of PP and believe that I read somewhere that P's ashes are within a container inside of a certain portion of the replica. Is it possible that Amir's ashes could also now be within the PP replica?

This is my belief also, regardless of what was told to Mayte.

CooperC62057 said:

LBrent said:

^^^THIS^^^

Yup

You have expressed this so well - thank you for posting this!!!

Yes. Acording to the book, he sat down craddling the baby in his arms and talking to him for ages, next to Mayte's leg. He was terrified not horrified.

I have been reading all this beautiful commentary of how Prince cared for the baby in the hospital but I didn't get all that emotion from listening to the audible version...I think one has to be able to read and re-read the words and ponder them to get that depth of emotion...otherwise I enjoyed listening to the rest of the book.Did anyone else feel this way?

[Edited 4/15/17 8:54am]

Fair. I will leave the thread soon and I apologize for popping up over and over. This thread is for the book, other ones are not. The people against the book (who have read it) are not discussing it too much other than to be completely dismissive. I am on the fence so that's why I am here.

Here's my issue is a nut shell--Is Mayte trying to present herself as Saint Mayte lover of bad Prince? or is she trying to write a book in which she proves that Prince, even with all his flaws, is worth loving? I am hoping it is the latter. But with the timing of the book and her being sort of vague about aspects of herself (no mention of infidelity rumors about her), its hard for me to tell. Her analysis is important if it is sincere.

I guess how we interpret things is up to us. Mayte heard the tone of his voice, saw the look in his eyes, etc when shit went down. We did not. so maybe her analysis(if it is authentic) might bear a bit more weight and should be respected.

The analysis of sincere people who actually knew Prince is what really matters. But not one person's analysis but several people's analysis is needed (due to him living a long complicated and compartmentalized life) for the rest of us to get a fuller picture of who he was. Actually, Prince's analysis of himself would have been helpful. Judging from the outside is quite easy to do based on behaviors we dont agree with.

Prince at worse was insensitive to his wife, a cheater, a tough boss, a internet nazi. He could be an asshole (like many of us) but assholes have their reasons. And ultimately he was mostly harmless. His power to hurt feelings was only enabled by those who allowed it for whatever reason...whether they were using him for his connections//money or they geniunely saw goodness in him. However, he was no Cosby or Trump or Gary Glitter (massive pedophile) or R.Kelly (another pedophile) or James Brown (domestic violence) or Jerry Lee Lewis (hilly billy pedophile) or Ike Turner or Shug Knight or Gig Young (shot and killed his own wife)...etc, etc, etc,

1Sasha said:

I can like Mayte but disagree with her analysis. She, however, lived her life and can relate firsthand what happened from her perspective. As for my other feelings: they are mine and I can have them, as those who disagree with me have theirs.

[Edited 4/15/17 8:48am]

[Edited 4/15/17 9:30am]

purplerabbithole said:

Fair. I will leave the thread soon and I apologize for popping up over and over. This thread is for the book, other ones are not. The people against the book (who have read it) are not discussing it too much other than to be completely dismissive. I am on the fence so that's why I am here.

Here's my issue is a nut shell--Is Mayte trying to present herself as Saint Mayte lover of bad Prince? or is she trying to write a book in which she proves that Prince, even with all his flaws, is worth loving? I am hoping it is the latter. But with the timing of the book and her being sort of vague about aspects of herself (no mention of infidelity rumors about her), its hard for me to tell. Her analysis is important if it is sincere.

I guess how we interpret things is up to us. Mayte heard the tone of his voice, saw the look in his eyes, etc when shit went down. We did not. so maybe her analysis(if it is authentic) might bear a bit more weight and should be respected.

The analysis of sincere people who actually knew Prince is what really matters. But not one person's analysis but several people's analysis is needed (due to him living a long complicated and compartmentalized life) for the rest of us to get a fuller picture of who he was. Actually, Prince's analysis of himself would have been helpful. Judging from the outside is quite easy to do based on behaviors we dont agree with.

Prince at worse was insensitive to his wife, a cheater, a tough boss, a internet nazi. He could be an asshole (like many of us) but assholes have their reasons. And ultimately he was mostly harmless. His power to hurt feelings was only enabled by those who allowed it for whatever reason...whether they were using him for his connections//money or they geniunely saw goodness in him. However, he was no Cosby or Trump or Gary Glitter (massive pedophile) or R.Kelly (another pedophile) or James Brown (domestic violence) or Jerry Lee Lewis (hilly billy pedophile) or Ike Turner or Shug Knight or Gig Young (shot and killed his own wife)...etc, etc, etc,

1Sasha said:

I can like Mayte but disagree with her analysis. She, however, lived her life and can relate firsthand what happened from her perspective. As for my other feelings: they are mine and I can have them, as those who disagree with me have theirs.

[Edited 4/15/17 8:48am]

[Edited 4/15/17 9:30am]

Purplerabbithole, You might be able to answer your own questions if you actually read the book. Perhaps you are experiencing a lot of anxiety about reading the book because you are afraid that the book will make you find him unloveable. I suggest that you take a leap of faith that you will still be able to love him after reading the book. I believe that Mayte more than proves that while Prince was flawed, he is still worth loving. I highly recommend reading the book.

206Michelle said:

purplerabbithole said:

Fair. I will leave the thread soon and I apologize for popping up over and over. This thread is for the book, other ones are not. The people against the book (who have read it) are not discussing it too much other than to be completely dismissive. I am on the fence so that's why I am here.

Here's my issue is a nut shell--Is Mayte trying to present herself as Saint Mayte lover of bad Prince? or is she trying to write a book in which she proves that Prince, even with all his flaws, is worth loving? I am hoping it is the latter. But with the timing of the book and her being sort of vague about aspects of herself (no mention of infidelity rumors about her), its hard for me to tell. Her analysis is important if it is sincere.

I guess how we interpret things is up to us. Mayte heard the tone of his voice, saw the look in his eyes, etc when shit went down. We did not. so maybe her analysis(if it is authentic) might bear a bit more weight and should be respected.

The analysis of sincere people who actually knew Prince is what really matters. But not one person's analysis but several people's analysis is needed (due to him living a long complicated and compartmentalized life) for the rest of us to get a fuller picture of who he was. Actually, Prince's analysis of himself would have been helpful. Judging from the outside is quite easy to do based on behaviors we dont agree with.

Prince at worse was insensitive to his wife, a cheater, a tough boss, a internet nazi. He could be an asshole (like many of us) but assholes have their reasons. And ultimately he was mostly harmless. His power to hurt feelings was only enabled by those who allowed it for whatever reason...whether they were using him for his connections//money or they geniunely saw goodness in him. However, he was no Cosby or Trump or Gary Glitter (massive pedophile) or R.Kelly (another pedophile) or James Brown (domestic violence) or Jerry Lee Lewis (hilly billy pedophile) or Ike Turner or Shug Knight or Gig Young (shot and killed his own wife)...etc, etc, etc,

[Edited 4/15/17 8:48am]

[Edited 4/15/17 9:30am]

Purplerabbithole, You might be able to answer your own questions if you actually read the book. Perhaps you are experiencing a lot of anxiety about reading the book because you are afraid that the book will make you find him unloveable. I suggest that you take a leap of faith that you will still be able to love him after reading the book. I believe that Mayte more than proves that while Prince was flawed, he is still worth loving. I highly recommend reading the book.

Absolutely!

But have a box of tissues nearby...cuz ya gonna need em.

purplerabbithole said:

Fair. I will leave the thread soon and I apologize for popping up over and over. This thread is for the book, other ones are not. The people against the book (who have read it) are not discussing it too much other than to be completely dismissive. I am on the fence so that's why I am here.

Here's my issue is a nut shell--Is Mayte trying to present herself as Saint Mayte lover of bad Prince? or is she trying to write a book in which she proves that Prince, even with all his flaws, is worth loving? I am hoping it is the latter. But with the timing of the book and her being sort of vague about aspects of herself (no mention of infidelity rumors about her), its hard for me to tell. Her analysis is important if it is sincere.

I guess how we interpret things is up to us. Mayte heard the tone of his voice, saw the look in his eyes, etc when shit went down. We did not. so maybe her analysis(if it is authentic) might bear a bit more weight and should be respected.

The analysis of sincere people who actually knew Prince is what really matters. But not one person's analysis but several people's analysis is needed (due to him living a long complicated and compartmentalized life) for the rest of us to get a fuller picture of who he was. Actually, Prince's analysis of himself would have been helpful. Judging from the outside is quite easy to do based on behaviors we dont agree with.

Prince at worse was insensitive to his wife, a cheater, a tough boss, a internet nazi. He could be an asshole (like many of us) but assholes have their reasons. And ultimately he was mostly harmless. His power to hurt feelings was only enabled by those who allowed it for whatever reason...whether they were using him for his connections//money or they geniunely saw goodness in him. However, he was no Cosby or Trump or Gary Glitter (massive pedophile) or R.Kelly (another pedophile) or James Brown (domestic violence) or Jerry Lee Lewis (hilly billy pedophile) or Ike Turner or Shug Knight or Gig Young (shot and killed his own wife)...etc, etc, etc,

1Sasha said:

I can like Mayte but disagree with her analysis. She, however, lived her life and can relate firsthand what happened from her perspective. As for my other feelings: they are mine and I can have them, as those who disagree with me have theirs.

[Edited 4/15/17 8:48am]

[Edited 4/15/17 9:30am]

I think the book is ultimately about her life not his, and at the heart of the book is the short-lived life of their beloved son as 206Michelle beautifully and eloquently said in post #964, mostly chapter 9. I think Mayte comes off as being confident that because he was a musical genius that her revelations about the intimate details of their relationship will not tarnish his image/legacy or/and as having reached a point in her life where this is not what is really important. In some interviews, she seems contradictory as if she is still coming to terms about or sorting out in her heart what she really thinks about some his actions. Some people may take this as her being insincere. Others who have not read the book may conclude that she portrays herself as a saint. There are several anecdotes where she gives a balanced picture of herself.

It is a very hard (sad) book to read without discussing it, different points of view only enrich the conversation

I know these last few chapters have been really intense and emotional so I thought I'd remind everyone of something I found very cute before we got this far in the book...

Mayte was pregnant and feeling huge and P had gotten her a scale to keep track of how much weight she was gaining. P gets on the scale first.

"118", he says.

Then Mayte gets on and she also weighs 118, but she bemoans the fact that she'll probably weigh more than that by the end of the week, and she does. But P insists that she's beautiful, even after she gains a total of 80 lbs during the pregnancy.

That memory made me smile.

DD55 said:

206Michelle said:

I agree about the fantasy being a coping mechanism.

.

Wow, I have never heard about the jewelry box. The man was an enigma, that's for sure...he was even an enigma to Mayte at times.

[Edited 4/14/17 19:18pm]

What's the source of this jewelry box? What are the details? I don't remember that in the book. thank you.

The jewellery box isn't mentioned in Mayte's book. However, it has been mentioned (even photographed, I THINK - although I could be wrong) elsewhere on the forum.

.
As far as I can recall, the box was given to him many years after P's and Vanity's relationship ended (perhaps as a thank you gift - although, again, I could be mis-remembering). To me, that is a very different situation to the destruction of his son's urn and ashes (IF indeed that did happen - we don't know for sure).
.
Whilst he regularly and often moved on from adult relationships in a personal, emotional capacity, he still had fond feelings for most of them (paying Vanity's medical bills, for example). He was able to do this because he still had control over the situation; one lover could be replaced with another. The feelings he had for his son (and, by extension, the woman with whom he created him) were evidently very different. A child, and the emotional connection one has to that child, cannot be so easily replaced...
.

If he did destroy the urn - along with Mayte's belongings - the sense I get is that he was absolutely destroyed himself by everything that had happened...For once, Prince, the man who needed so desperately to be in control, had had that control wrested from his grasp. He was absolutely powerless in the face of what happened to his son. The experience must have been absolutely devastating to such a person.
.

Remember, also, Prince was a creator - and he needed his creations to be perfect. Here was his ultimate creation - his son - not only did his creation have 'terrifying' health problems / disabilities, his son then died as a result of them. Prince proceeded to blame himself (citing his past behaviours as being somehow responsible for God's wrath). I'm not at all surprised that he subsequently behaved in a way that seems inconceivable to many. Here was a man who had built his entire existence around being the best, being perfect.
.
What I do find interesting is how Prince, with his all-consuming need to be in control, was able to square that with the notion of an omnipotent God. How far can one be in personal control, if they believe God controls all? Did Prince believe in destiny? And if so, did he also believe in free will? Curious stuff - and probably more than someone of my limited intellectual means can comprehend, lol!

206Michelle said:

rosylo said:

I had qualms about buying the book because of how reserved about his life he was known to be. But, what you expressed here made the publication of the book worthwhile. Also, it dispelled any lingering suspicions regarding the baby's death. I read, there was even a police investigation at the time triggered by the nannies. Also, imho, Amiir's legacy through this book is raising wider awareness about Pfeiffer syndrome.

roslyo, I totally agree that part of his legacy is raising wider awareness of Pfeiffer Syndrome. I would love to see a graph of the data on the number of web searches about Pfeiffer Syndrome over the last 5 years or so. My guess is that there was a probably big increase in searches about Pfeiffer Syndrome after Prince's death and another big increase in web searches since the press started covering Mayte's book. At the very least, Amiir brings name recognition to Pfeiffer Syndrome.

.

As a special education teacher, I have come to appreciate how hard of a job it is to be a parent of a child who has a significant disability. Given how well her book is selling, I hope that one of the "take-aways" people have from reading the book is more awareness of the struggles that families face in caring for children and adults who have significant disabilities.

to the bolded and in addition

Do you know what would be cool?, as he used to say ,

A. If a % of the royalties from her book would go towards scientific research for this syndrome to find:

1) Less invasive early diagnostic methods (non-amniotic)

2) What causes (environmental?) the new mutations that result in Pfeiffer II and III syndrome in individuals.

3) a cure.

4) ...

5) ...

She also hinted in one of the interviews, during this book tour, that she might get involved in other causes besides animal rescue.

B. I would hope that she would reach out to his/her fams (if A. is not possible because of her multiple economic responsibilities) to contribute to the construction of a research institute in Amiir's name.

This way she would be honoring their son, fulfilling an idea he had (thank you LBrent for mentioning the children's hospital, he considered building), she would be uniting all his fams-family-friends-collaborators around a worthwhile cause. The state could even sell all the songs he wrote for their baby with the proceeds going to Pfeiffer research.

[Edited 4/15/17 12:14pm]

rosylo said:

206Michelle said:

roslyo, I totally agree that part of his legacy is raising wider awareness of Pfeiffer Syndrome. I would love to see a graph of the data on the number of web searches about Pfeiffer Syndrome over the last 5 years or so. My guess is that there was a probably big increase in searches about Pfeiffer Syndrome after Prince's death and another big increase in web searches since the press started covering Mayte's book. At the very least, Amiir brings name recognition to Pfeiffer Syndrome.

.

As a special education teacher, I have come to appreciate how hard of a job it is to be a parent of a child who has a significant disability. Given how well her book is selling, I hope that one of the "take-aways" people have from reading the book is more awareness of the struggles that families face in caring for children and adults who have significant disabilities.

to the bolded and in addition

Do you know what would be cool?, as he used to say ,

A. If a % of the royalties from her book would go towards scientific research for this syndrome to find:

1) Less invasive early diagnostic methods (non-amniotic)

2) What causes (environmental?) the new mutations that result in Pfeiffer II and III syndrome in individuals.

3) a cure.

4) ...

5) ...

She also hinted in one of the interviews, during this book tour, that she might get involved in other causes besides animal rescue.

B. I would hope that she would reach out to his/her fams (if A. is not possible because of her multiple economic responsibilities) to contribute to the construction of a research institute in Amiir's name.

This way she would be honoring their son, fulfilling an idea he had (thank you LBrent for mentioning the children's hospital, he considered building), she would be uniting all his fams-family-friends-collaborators around a worthwhile cause. The state could even sell all the songs he wrote for their baby with the proceeds going to Pfeiffer research.

[Edited 4/15/17 12:14pm]

Dibblekins said:

DD55 said:

What's the source of this jewelry box? What are the details? I don't remember that in the book. thank you.

The jewellery box isn't mentioned in Mayte's book. However, it has been mentioned (even photographed, I THINK - although I could be wrong) elsewhere on the forum.

.
As far as I can recall, the box was given to him many years after P's and Vanity's relationship ended (perhaps as a thank you gift - although, again, I could be mis-remembering). To me, that is a very different situation to the destruction of his son's urn and ashes (IF indeed that did happen - we don't know for sure).
.
Whilst he regularly and often moved on from adult relationships in a personal, emotional capacity, he still had fond feelings for most of them (paying Vanity's medical bills, for example). He was able to do this because he still had control over the situation; one lover could be replaced with another. The feelings he had for his son (and, by extension, the woman with whom he created him) were evidently very different. A child, and the emotional connection one has to that child, cannot be so easily replaced...
.

If he did destroy the urn - along with Mayte's belongings - the sense I get is that he was absolutely destroyed himself by everything that had happened...For once, Prince, the man who needed so desperately to be in control, had had that control wrested from his grasp. He was absolutely powerless in the face of what happened to his son. The experience must have been absolutely devastating to such a person.
.

Remember, also, Prince was a creator - and he needed his creations to be perfect. Here was his ultimate creation - his son - not only did his creation have 'terrifying' health problems / disabilities, his son then died as a result of them. Prince proceeded to blame himself (citing his past behaviours as being somehow responsible for God's wrath). I'm not at all surprised that he subsequently behaved in a way that seems inconceivable to many. Here was a man who had built his entire existence around being the best, being perfect.
.
What I do find interesting is how Prince, with his all-consuming need to be in control, was able to square that with the notion of an omnipotent God. How far can one be in personal control, if they believe God controls all? Did Prince believe in destiny? And if so, did he also believe in free will? Curious stuff - and probably more than someone of my limited intellectual means can comprehend, lol!

Yes, he had to be in a very dark place to do that IF he destroyed it. Was it because the urn was a constant reminder of the very hard decision he agreed to let Amiir go? Did he feel guilty about that too? Perhaps LG is one of the few people who really knows what happened.

LBrent said:

rosylo said:

to the bolded and in addition

Do you know what would be cool?, as he used to say ,

A. If a % of the royalties from her book would go towards scientific research for this syndrome to find:

1) Less invasive early diagnostic methods (non-amniotic)

2) What causes (environmental?) the new mutations that result in Pfeiffer II and III syndrome in individuals.

3) a cure.

4) ...

5) ...

She also hinted in one of the interviews, during this book tour, that she might get involved in other causes besides animal rescue.

B. I would hope that she would reach out to his/her fams (if A. is not possible because of her multiple economic responsibilities) to contribute to the construction of a research institute in Amiir's name.

This way she would be honoring their son, fulfilling an idea he had (thank you LBrent for mentioning the children's hospital, he considered building), she would be uniting all his fams-family-friends-collaborators around a worthwhile cause. The state could even sell all the songs he wrote for their baby with the proceeds going to Pfeiffer research.

[Edited 4/15/17 12:14pm]

Is everyone ready for Chapter 11?

PennyPurple said:

Is everyone ready for Chapter 11?

My Chapter 11 take-aways....

We might have some new posters coming here and posting on the book club thread because they have read the book, but may have some opposing opinions. Please show them respect and no insults. We can all read the same book and still not have the same opinion and I'm open enough, as I think everyone on this thread is, to see the other side. The same rules apply, no arguing, no insults, no putting down some one else's opinions and no shit stirring.

.

Thank you All!

sonshine said:

GimmeThat said:

For me, this was a hard chapter to read. Obviously, I already knew how their relationship ended up (spoiler alert!!!) but it was difficult because it was clearly a very painful time in her life. I'm impressed by how classy Mayte kept it while still telling her story.

Just when I think it can't get any more heartwrenching...altho this chapter left me a mixture of angry and sad. I am one of those who firmly believe LG was very instramental in the demise of their marriage. Years and years ago I saw an interview P and LG did together and it was so ish! And when P was accepting some award once he got up on stage and called on LG to stand up and take a bow as he literally gushed about him. It all felt so weird at the time. Poor Mayte sitting there in the audience was trying so hard to look happy but it was forced. Don't even get me started on that creature who became his second wife. If I was Mayte I would have fired her myself and sent her on her way with the very clear message she was not welcome to return ever. UGH!!!!! I would never forgive her. Mayte is a much bigger person than I. Prince of course is not without blame, but I do cut him some slack because of the trauma he suffered so recently. Emotionally he would have been a mess. Otherwise he wouldn't have gotten so spellbound by all that LG mumbo jumbo and he wouldn't have been so easily played by M2. He got played people. Prince is the player. He was always the player. She played him. He was weak. Dammit lives were ruined. Hopes and dreams were crushed. How does anyone live with doing that to another person?!? Same with this LG business. How does one justify hurting people in the name of religion?? The whole burning thing is such a junior high move. These are grown ass men, deeply religious too they would have us believe. Really, what in the actual f***?!!?

[Edited 4/15/17 0:14am]

Sonshine, I remember the award acceptance speech to which you refer. (I didn't watch it in 1998, but I've seen a YouTube video of it.) I went looking for a video of the speech that you described, and his speech at the 1998 Essence Awards fits the description. Here is a link: https://youtu.be/gG1W_CsFp2s. He asked Larry to stand. He also asked Chaka Khan to stand. He does not mention Mayte in his speech at all. (I didn't see Mayte's reaction to his speech, possibly because of the subpar quality of the video.) I did some internet research and found out that the 1998 Essence Awards took place on April 10, 1998. Fox taped the show and then broadcasted it during late May of 1998 (Source: "Headliners slated for Essence telecast" by John Dempsey, Variety, April 1, 1998, http://variety.com/1998/m...7469417/).

.

What you mentioned about the award show speech does connect to chapter 10. While Mayte doesn't mention the 1998 Essence Awards in her book, she writes that she went to BET to premeire the video for "The One" in June of 1998 (p. 240). When she talks about she and making "The One," she doesn't mention the date, but it's possible that they may have still been working on it in April of 1998, when the Essence Awards occurred. Jumping forward to June 1998 again, after she debuts "The One" on BET, the next event she writes about is the episode of Sinbad's show Vibe on which she, , Larry, Tina Graham, and Chaka appear. I looked up this episode of Vibe to which she refers, and it took place on June 8, 1998. Link: https://youtu.be/I4JyVvRa9Kw.

.

My views about Larry Graham are, shall we say, complicated. Before I elaborate on my views about Larry, I will say some things about my views on Jehovah's Witnesses because from my perspective as a Prince fan, Larry and the JW faith are intertwined.

.

There are some orgers who are very hateful of the JW faith, but I'm not one of those people. It's hard for me to hate the JW faith because Prince, my second favourite musician of all time, was a JW. I feel that if I hated the JW faith, I would be hating Prince.

.

I don't like when people disparage my faith, so I won't do that to others. I strongly oppose religious persecution. I believe deeply that people have a right to practice their religion freely, so long as they don't hurt other people in the process. What I find totally unacceptable are groups like the KKK and ISIS because these groups preach hate and kill innocent people. The KKK and ISIS are malicious. As far as I know, the JW faith isn't trying to kill innocent people.

.

Having said that, I do strongly disagree with many of the core tenets of the JW faith because many of their core tenets are at odds with the core tenets of my Roman Catholic Christian faith (as well as the core tenets of most mainstream Protestant and Orthodox denominations). I've had encounters with JWs who are proselytizing, and anytime they've offered me literature, my response is a polite but firm, "No, I'm not interested." Again, I don't hate the JW faith; it's just not for me. As long as members of the JW faith leave my faith alone, I'll leave their faith alone; in other words, live and let live.

.

Now back to Larry Graham. My feelings about him are complicated, but somewhat unfavorable. LG is a great musician. I have great respect for his musical talents and contributions. The biggest reason I dislike LG is that the JW faith, to which LG introduced , played a role in the demise of and Mayte's marriage. I liked Prince and Mayte together and wish they had stayed married. I think that Mayte was good for Prince because she loved him, was devoted to him, and would have stayed with him through thick and thin. She only left him because he abandoned her first.

.

Here's where things get complicated with Larry Graham. I don't like that he introduced the JW faith to because the JW faith was one of the factors that caused Mayte and to drift apart and, ultimately, divorce. But I don't think LG was malicious. He's a Jehovah's Witness...proselytizing is what they do. I wasn't there, so I don't know how he introduced to the faith. Was it consensual? Was it coercive? Did LG know that and Mayte had lost a baby? Did he see that was vulnerable due to Amiir's loss and try to capitalize on that opportunity in order to convert ? I don't know the answers to these questions.

.

I don't know much LG knew about the extramarital relationship between and Mani. Did he condone it? Did he turn a blind eye to it? I just don't know. Without knowing more, I feel like I can't judge LG. All I can do is regard LG's involvement in 's life as an unfortunate circumstance because LG introduced to the JW faith, and the JW faith exacerbated existing issues in Mayte and 's marriage (notably, Amiir's death and the miscarriage).

.

I think that part of the reason that latched onto the JW faith that LG was sharing is because there was a spiritual void in his own life. Outside of getting married in a church and attending JW meetings, Mayte never mentions she and belonging to a religious community. When Amiir died, Mayte and 's world imploded and came crashing down on them. Mayte never mentions receiving support from his side of the family to help him cope with Amiir's death. She never mentions that she and went to counseling. She never mentions that they received support from a religious congregation. I don't know if they did these things. What I do know from reading the book is that neither of them knew how to cope with their son's death (which is totally understandable) and they didn't have a good support system to help them cope with his death. was on tour and promoting Emancipation. Mayte spent a lot of time grieving alone. She never mentions anyone stepping in to help them with the grieving process.

.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the miscarriage, Manuela's presence, and Prince's flaws had more to do with and Mayte divorcing than LG introducing the JW faith. I think that the miscarriage was the biggest factor. Don't get me started with Mani. All I can say about her is that anything bad that I have no sympathy for anything she endured during her marriage to Prince because she brought it on herself by getting involved with a married man. End of story.

.

Mayte states on p. 244 that in terms of the JW study sessions, men and women study separately. Then on p. 247, she says that Mani was studying with the group. But if men and women studied separately, how much did these sessions bring together and Mani? Were the sessions for men in one room and then the sessions for women in a room next door? Were the sessions in separate buildings? The book doesn't say.

.

At the same time, I don't think that Prince's conversion to the JW faith was all bad. As much as I love the man, I have difficulty listening to some of his sexually explicit music because it openly promotes fornication. I'm no expert on Baptist of Seventh-Day Adventist beliefs, but I can say that songs like "Darling Nikki," "Erotic City," "Let's Pretend We're Married" are totally inconsistent with the teachings of these denominations (and most Christian denominations) on sexual morality. He's an unmarried man singing songs like "Hot Thing" and "It" at the same time he's singing "The Cross." There were some pretty significant contradictions between his religious beliefs and his sexual behavior. This music promoted premarital sex and was therefore, totally at odds with his faith. As he got older, Prince cleaned up his act, and I think that was a good thing. Part of this may have been just getting older, part of it may have been his desire to make his shows more family friendly so that his older fans could bring their kids. But a big reason for him cleaning up his act was the JW faith.

.

So, I think LG's influence on Prince was complicated. Based on what I read in chapter 10, it's hard for me to hold Larry responsible for much of anything other than introducing to the JW faith.

rosylo said:

purplerabbithole said:

Fair. I will leave the thread soon and I apologize for popping up over and over. This thread is for the book, other ones are not. The people against the book (who have read it) are not discussing it too much other than to be completely dismissive. I am on the fence so that's why I am here.

Here's my issue is a nut shell--Is Mayte trying to present herself as Saint Mayte lover of bad Prince? or is she trying to write a book in which she proves that Prince, even with all his flaws, is worth loving? I am hoping it is the latter. But with the timing of the book and her being sort of vague about aspects of herself (no mention of infidelity rumors about her), its hard for me to tell. Her analysis is important if it is sincere.

I guess how we interpret things is up to us. Mayte heard the tone of his voice, saw the look in his eyes, etc when shit went down. We did not. so maybe her analysis(if it is authentic) might bear a bit more weight and should be respected.

The analysis of sincere people who actually knew Prince is what really matters. But not one person's analysis but several people's analysis is needed (due to him living a long complicated and compartmentalized life) for the rest of us to get a fuller picture of who he was. Actually, Prince's analysis of himself would have been helpful. Judging from the outside is quite easy to do based on behaviors we dont agree with.

Prince at worse was insensitive to his wife, a cheater, a tough boss, a internet nazi. He could be an asshole (like many of us) but assholes have their reasons. And ultimately he was mostly harmless. His power to hurt feelings was only enabled by those who allowed it for whatever reason...whether they were using him for his connections//money or they geniunely saw goodness in him. However, he was no Cosby or Trump or Gary Glitter (massive pedophile) or R.Kelly (another pedophile) or James Brown (domestic violence) or Jerry Lee Lewis (hilly billy pedophile) or Ike Turner or Shug Knight or Gig Young (shot and killed his own wife)...etc, etc, etc,

[Edited 4/15/17 8:48am]

[Edited 4/15/17 9:30am]

I think the book is ultimately about her life not his, and at the heart of the book is the short-lived life of their beloved son as 206Michelle beautifully and eloquently said in post #964, mostly chapter 9. I think Mayte comes off as being confident that because he was a musical genius that her revelations about the intimate details of their relationship will not tarnish his image/legacy or/and as having reached a point in her life where this is not what is really important. In some interviews, she seems contradictory as if she is still coming to terms about or sorting out in her heart what she really thinks about some his actions. Some people may take this as her being insincere. Others who have not read the book may conclude that she portrays herself as a saint. There are several anecdotes where she gives a balanced picture of herself.

It is a very hard (sad) book to read without discussing it, different points of view only enrich the conversation

Rosylo, you make some great points. I think that it was very important for her to share the story of their son. She shared good, bad, sad, and beautiful details about their relationship. She was a part of his life and will always be tied to his legacy. Her role in his life was unique because she was both a professional collaborator and 's wife. In my opinion, she was one of his most important artistic collaborators and inspirations; she inspired dozens of songs, was in at least a dozen of his music videos, and toured with him for several years. It's clear from interviews and the book that she's still processing who Prince was and his death. He's still an enigma to her, in some ways, and she was married to him. Finally, I agree that she does reflect on herself and her own flaws and what she could have done differently.

LBrent said:

I know these last few chapters have been really intense and emotional so I thought I'd remind everyone of something I found very cute before we got this far in the book...

Mayte was pregnant and feeling huge and P had gotten her a scale to keep track of how much weight she was gaining. P gets on the scale first.

"118", he says.

Then Mayte gets on and she also weighs 118, but she bemoans the fact that she'll probably weigh more than that by the end of the week, and she does. But P insists that she's beautiful, even after she gains a total of 80 lbs during the pregnancy.

That memory made me smile.

Yes, I agree. When she was pregnant, he never said anything negative about her appearance, just "You're beautiful."

206Michelle said:

Mayte states on p. 244 that in terms of the JW study sessions, men and women study separately. Then on p. 247, she says that Mani was studying with the group. But if men and women studied separately, how much did these sessions bring together and Mani? Were the sessions for men in one room and then the sessions for women in a room next door? Were the sessions in separate buildings? The book doesn't say.

.

At the same time, I don't think that Prince's conversion to the JW faith was all bad. As much as I love the man, I have difficulty listening to some of his sexually explicit music because it openly promotes fornication. I'm no expert on Baptist of Seventh-Day Adventist beliefs, but I can say that songs like "Darling Nikki," "Erotic City," "Let's Pretend We're Married" are totally inconsistent with the teachings of these denominations (and most Christian denominations) on sexual morality. He's an unmarried man singing songs like "Hot Thing" and "It" at the same time he's singing "The Cross." There were some pretty significant contradictions between his religious beliefs and his sexual behavior. This music promoted premarital sex and was therefore, totally at odds with his faith. As he got older, Prince cleaned up his act, and I think that was a good thing. Part of this may have been just getting older, part of it may have been his desire to make his shows more family friendly so that his older fans could bring their kids. But a big reason for him cleaning up his act was the JW faith.

.

So, I think LG's influence on Prince was complicated. Based on what I read in chapter 10, it's hard for me to hold Larry responsible for much of anything other than introducing to the JW faith.

I agree with what I removed from your original post so it would'nt be so long.

What I bolded above confused me because men and women studying seperately isn't a JW thing. Perhaps it was simply a thing with the group that P/LG took Mayte to.

It's also not a religion that seperates men and women based on sitting together during worship based on who is married and who is single...However, each congregation, as in any faith, develops it's own unspoken customs so maybe where they attended worship had the habit of unconciously segregating themselves on their own, but it wasn't because it was a JW thing. It was a people thing.

The main point of where folks sit for worship is usually families sit together and couples sit together, like in most places of worship that don't segregate by sex. Elderly and mothers with small children often sit near the back to be closer to the restrooms.

Some JW worship venues have seperate soundproof rooms with a sound system and giant window for parents to comfortably be able to worhsip with small children and their crying/playing not disturb those in the main room, but the folks in these "mommy rooms" can still see and participate fully.

Just saying

[Edited 4/15/17 17:28pm]

Dibblekins said:

DD55 said:

What's the source of this jewelry box? What are the details? I don't remember that in the book. thank you.

The jewellery box isn't mentioned in Mayte's book. However, it has been mentioned (even photographed, I THINK - although I could be wrong) elsewhere on the forum.

.
As far as I can recall, the box was given to him many years after P's and Vanity's relationship ended (perhaps as a thank you gift - although, again, I could be mis-remembering). To me, that is a very different situation to the destruction of his son's urn and ashes (IF indeed that did happen - we don't know for sure).
.
Whilst he regularly and often moved on from adult relationships in a personal, emotional capacity, he still had fond feelings for most of them (paying Vanity's medical bills, for example). He was able to do this because he still had control over the situation; one lover could be replaced with another. The feelings he had for his son (and, by extension, the woman with whom he created him) were evidently very different. A child, and the emotional connection one has to that child, cannot be so easily replaced...
.

If he did destroy the urn - along with Mayte's belongings - the sense I get is that he was absolutely destroyed himself by everything that had happened...For once, Prince, the man who needed so desperately to be in control, had had that control wrested from his grasp. He was absolutely powerless in the face of what happened to his son. The experience must have been absolutely devastating to such a person.
.

Remember, also, Prince was a creator - and he needed his creations to be perfect. Here was his ultimate creation - his son - not only did his creation have 'terrifying' health problems / disabilities, his son then died as a result of them. Prince proceeded to blame himself (citing his past behaviours as being somehow responsible for God's wrath). I'm not at all surprised that he subsequently behaved in a way that seems inconceivable to many. Here was a man who had built his entire existence around being the best, being perfect.
.
What I do find interesting is how Prince, with his all-consuming need to be in control, was able to square that with the notion of an omnipotent God. How far can one be in personal control, if they believe God controls all? Did Prince believe in destiny? And if so, did he also believe in free will? Curious stuff - and probably more than someone of my limited intellectual means can comprehend, lol!

Dibblekins, You make some really interesting points. I think that you are correct that moving on from Vanity/Denise was very different than moving on from Amiir. Another factor that exacerbates the difference between these two losses is the fact that Amiir was his only child. (And yes, I know there was a miscarriage, which is losing a child. But it's different, for a man especially, to lose a miscarriage than to lose a child that you've held in your own arms.)

.

I think that Amiir's death caused 's world to implode. Mayte describes this with the skydiving metaphor at the end of chapter 9.

.

Ultimately, when a person has weaknesses or flaws that can be addressed, the person has to take some agency in trying to address these weaknesses. Prince had trust/attachment/abandonment issues. I have a hard time believing that he was unaware of these issues. He was too intelligent and too well-informed of a person to be unaware. For reasons that I do not know, he chose not to address the underlying issues.

.

I have every reason to believe that he did believe in free will. He decided to wage a battle with Warner Brothers over artistic freedom. He could have lived with the $100 million contract that he signed and be unhappy. Instead, he decided to rebel and stand up for a cause that he believed to be important. People ridiculed him for his fight at the time. He took a beating in the press. But 15 years later, whenever he showed up at an awards show, the entire audience would give him a standing ovation.

.

My favourite book is Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. (I wonder if Prince ever read this book.) Viktor Frankl was an Austrian medical doctor and Holocaust survivor. This man lived through unspeakable horrors during the Holocaust, and lost his entire family. He wrote this in the book Man's Search for Meaning:

.

* “When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.”

* “Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.”

.

We all have our crosses to bear, our struggles, our flaws. A person can say "Woe is me," and let the flaws or struggles be in charge. Or the person can try to change that which he/she is able to change. Prince made a choice to rebel and change the situation of his contract with Warner Brothers. Unfortunately, he did not do enough to change his fatal flaw---his trust/abandonment/attachment issues. So, as someone else put it brilliantly, his life ended too soon as a Greek tragedy, Chanhassen style.

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Source: http://www.azquotes.com/quote/652426

[Edited 4/15/17 18:47pm]

rosylo said:

206Michelle said:

roslyo, I totally agree that part of his legacy is raising wider awareness of Pfeiffer Syndrome. I would love to see a graph of the data on the number of web searches about Pfeiffer Syndrome over the last 5 years or so. My guess is that there was a probably big increase in searches about Pfeiffer Syndrome after Prince's death and another big increase in web searches since the press started covering Mayte's book. At the very least, Amiir brings name recognition to Pfeiffer Syndrome.

.

As a special education teacher, I have come to appreciate how hard of a job it is to be a parent of a child who has a significant disability. Given how well her book is selling, I hope that one of the "take-aways" people have from reading the book is more awareness of the struggles that families face in caring for children and adults who have significant disabilities.

to the bolded and in addition

Do you know what would be cool?, as he used to say ,

A. If a % of the royalties from her book would go towards scientific research for this syndrome to find:

1) Less invasive early diagnostic methods (non-amniotic)

2) What causes (environmental?) the new mutations that result in Pfeiffer II and III syndrome in individuals.

3) a cure.

4) ...

5) ...

She also hinted in one of the interviews, during this book tour, that she might get involved in other causes besides animal rescue.

B. I would hope that she would reach out to his/her fams (if A. is not possible because of her multiple economic responsibilities) to contribute to the construction of a research institute in Amiir's name.

This way she would be honoring their son, fulfilling an idea he had (thank you LBrent for mentioning the children's hospital, he considered building), she would be uniting all his fams-family-friends-collaborators around a worthwhile cause. The state could even sell all the songs he wrote for their baby with the proceeds going to Pfeiffer research.

[Edited 4/15/17 12:14pm]

Roslyo, I think that you make some great suggestions about how Mayte could help people who have Pfeiffer Syndrome. There's certainly a need for more research on PS. I agree that there is a need for more research on less invasive prenatal diagnostic methods.

.

Because it's such a rare disorder, I'm not sure how practical or feasible it would be to build an entire hospital just for the purpose of treating kids who have Pfeiffer Syndrome. However, it might be possible to establish a department at a hospital that specializes in treating children who have Pfeiffer Syndrome, and have it bear Amiir's name.

rosylo said:

Dibblekins said:

The jewellery box isn't mentioned in Mayte's book. However, it has been mentioned (even photographed, I THINK - although I could be wrong) elsewhere on the forum.

.
As far as I can recall, the box was given to him many years after P's and Vanity's relationship ended (perhaps as a thank you gift - although, again, I could be mis-remembering). To me, that is a very different situation to the destruction of his son's urn and ashes (IF indeed that did happen - we don't know for sure).
.
Whilst he regularly and often moved on from adult relationships in a personal, emotional capacity, he still had fond feelings for most of them (paying Vanity's medical bills, for example). He was able to do this because he still had control over the situation; one lover could be replaced with another. The feelings he had for his son (and, by extension, the woman with whom he created him) were evidently very different. A child, and the emotional connection one has to that child, cannot be so easily replaced...
.

If he did destroy the urn - along with Mayte's belongings - the sense I get is that he was absolutely destroyed himself by everything that had happened...For once, Prince, the man who needed so desperately to be in control, had had that control wrested from his grasp. He was absolutely powerless in the face of what happened to his son. The experience must have been absolutely devastating to such a person.
.

Remember, also, Prince was a creator - and he needed his creations to be perfect. Here was his ultimate creation - his son - not only did his creation have 'terrifying' health problems / disabilities, his son then died as a result of them. Prince proceeded to blame himself (citing his past behaviours as being somehow responsible for God's wrath). I'm not at all surprised that he subsequently behaved in a way that seems inconceivable to many. Here was a man who had built his entire existence around being the best, being perfect.
.
What I do find interesting is how Prince, with his all-consuming need to be in control, was able to square that with the notion of an omnipotent God. How far can one be in personal control, if they believe God controls all? Did Prince believe in destiny? And if so, did he also believe in free will? Curious stuff - and probably more than someone of my limited intellectual means can comprehend, lol!

Yes, he had to be in a very dark place to do that IF he destroyed it. Was it because the urn was a constant reminder of the very hard decision he agreed to let Amiir go? Did he feel guilty about that too? Perhaps LG is one of the few people who really knows what happened.

Yes, I wonder about this too, if he (and Mayte) regretted the decision to remove life support. Given that he never had any other children, it would not surprise me if he did regret the decision. If he did have regrets over the decision to remove life support, I can only imagine how much it would have eaten him up inside.

DD55 said:

LBrent said:

You all are way more optimistic than I. So sorry if I’m being to pessimistic, I guess I don’t dream big. I don’t see her having the skill set to bring that together, and is anyone else willing to undertake such a massive project?

.

The way it looks now: The fans can’t agree on anything, and coming together with Mayte at the helm, I don’t see that happening anytime soon. The family can’t even agree on an attorney. Prince himself couldn’t get building a hospital done, although he did buy the property, there was over $11M worth of property in the love4oneanother charities as of 2007, which lost its charity status with the IRS years ago. (Prince was listed as Director and Kirk listed as President.)

.

I think if she were to undertake such an endeavor, perhaps a wing at a premier children’s research/teaching hospital might be more achievable. Preferably in MN, I do think she could get the people of MN to support it, the state of MN loves P.

to your last paragraph.

206Michelle said:

DD55 said:

You all are way more optimistic than I. So sorry if I’m being to pessimistic, I guess I don’t dream big. I don’t see her having the skill set to bring that together, and is anyone else willing to undertake such a massive project?

.

The way it looks now: The fans can’t agree on anything, and coming together with Mayte at the helm, I don’t see that happening anytime soon. The family can’t even agree on an attorney. Prince himself couldn’t get building a hospital done, although he did buy the property, there was over $11M worth of property in the love4oneanother charities as of 2007, which lost its charity status with the IRS years ago. (Prince was listed as Director and Kirk listed as President.)

.

I think if she were to undertake such an endeavor, perhaps a wing at a premier children’s research/teaching hospital might be more achievable. Preferably in MN, I do think she could get the people of MN to support it, the state of MN loves P.

to your last paragraph.

Yes, what I wrote was more wishful thinking; he even had bought the land across PP for it (please correct me if I misunderstood this from LBrent's post). Your idea is more realistic. I wonder if the tax load could have been reduced by donating it to Pfeiffer research, just thinking outloud , I know the state was in disarray. I read in the other thread the book is selling well at #3, so may be Mayte will have enough to support something along the lines of what you suggested.

She flat out addressed the anullment rumor. It wasn't official or legally binding in anyway, shape or form.

.

I don't get why he wanted her to wear the belly dancing outfit though.

.

She told off her mom and her strict grandma. I'm wondering what the grandma said back to her. LOL

PennyPurple said:

She flat out addressed the anullment rumor. It wasn't official or legally binding in anyway, shape or form.

.

I don't get why he wanted her to wear the belly dancing outfit though.

.

She told off her mom and her strict grandma. I'm wondering what the grandma said back to her. LOL

I thought about the belly dancing outfit also. There were a few things like that (the strip club) where I think he was pushing her away, picking fights, trying to create space to make it easier to split. IDK really, but that is what I thought after a few situations sounded silly to me.

Yes the annulment. Since Prince said it in (what was it) 1998, I wonder if that will ever be corrected in the minds of most Prince fans. Like she said.... guess what not everything you read on the internet is true.....

She doesn't say what grandma said but her sister is still with the other person (forgot her name), so hopefully the family is all ok.