LBrent said:

Yes, awesome job, Michelle.

Also, it's interesting to note that the time period of P's identity as was 1993 to 2000. 7 years. And we all know the number 7 held significance to him.

Also, she remarks that whenever she would think or stare at him a few seconds, tada...he'd either call or appear.

I remember from an interveiw he gave about what his wife called him, P said if they were always together, she'd never have to "call him".

Yeah, this makes sense to me...I remember something from another girlfriend in Toure's book in which she noted how perceptive he would be, and how he would always notice if something was up/off with her. This is one of the things I love about P, very very very sensitive - aesthetically, emotionally, inuitively, energetically, all of that...skin like tissue paper...(which is what the foo foo was all about...and he had acute light sensitivity in particular I suspect, I don't think the shades were just for being cool/privacy)...It also kind of makes even more sense of why he had such rigid barriers in some way, because he probably learned early he really had to protect himself, and at the same time, it makes it more of tragedy he couldn't learn to let them go...

312131213121 said:

How do u guys feel about manuela after reading the book? eye honestly wanted to like her after reading the book but now after Mayte said what happened with the handshake with manuela, eye just got very angry with her. Like why would she do that is she knew he was married?

She's not to be trusted. I actually think that she might be the friend who told Mayte that her stuff was burned. She was acting as Maytes friend while trying to hurt Mayte with that piece of info.

PennyPurple said:

312131213121 said:

How do u guys feel about manuela after reading the book? eye honestly wanted to like her after reading the book but now after Mayte said what happened with the handshake with manuela, eye just got very angry with her. Like why would she do that is she knew he was married?

She's not to be trusted. I actually think that she might be the friend who told Mayte that her stuff was burned. She was acting as Maytes friend while trying to hurt Mayte with that piece of info.

Do you think Manuela was tellling the thuth about the burning of the stuff if you feel she is not to be trusted?

Purplestar88 said:

PennyPurple said:

She's not to be trusted. I actually think that she might be the friend who told Mayte that her stuff was burned. She was acting as Maytes friend while trying to hurt Mayte with that piece of info.

Do you think Manuela was tellling the thuth about the burning of the stuff if you feel she is not to be trusted?

I think she was telling the truth that the stuff was burned, it is documented in M2 and Prince divorce record that she asked Prince if he burned her stuff like he burned M1's? I am thinking (not fact) that she is probably the one who told M1 about her stuff being burned, as a friend in sheeps clothing, just to get a dig in, at M1.

PennyPurple said:

Purplestar88 said:

Do you think Manuela was tellling the thuth about the burning of the stuff if you feel she is not to be trusted?

I think she was telling the truth that the stuff was burned, it is documented in M2 and Prince divorce record that she asked Prince if he burned her stuff like he burned M1's? I am thinking (not fact) that she is probably the one who told M1 about her stuff being burned, as a friend in sheeps clothing, just to get a dig in, at M1.

Yes ,I felt similarily when I saw them together on that clip from the exes show,I felt Manuela was pitying Mayte and being mean girlish...On another note , does anyone else feel sad/weird that they hired flowergirls/attendants for theirr wedding ?It does feel like a production by Prince,doesn't it?

Ha ha! Yep, I think their wedding was another creative outlet for him. They also may not have known any little girls personally at that time. Prince had to imagine a lot of things regarding weddings and family and marriage, because he may not have had examples of that growing up. Just a guess.

80tomato said:

PennyPurple said:

I think she was telling the truth that the stuff was burned, it is documented in M2 and Prince divorce record that she asked Prince if he burned her stuff like he burned M1's? I am thinking (not fact) that she is probably the one who told M1 about her stuff being burned, as a friend in sheeps clothing, just to get a dig in, at M1.

Yes ,I felt similarily when I saw them together on that clip from the exes show,I felt Manuela was pitying Mayte and being mean girlish...On another note , does anyone else feel sad/weird that they hired flowergirls/attendants for theirr wedding ?It does feel like a production by Prince,doesn't it?

NickiStarr said:

Ha ha! Yep, I think their wedding was another creative outlet for him. They also may not have known any little girls personally at that time. Prince had to imagine a lot of things regarding weddings and family and marriage, because he may not have had examples of that growing up. Just a guess.

80tomato said:

Yes ,I felt similarily when I saw them together on that clip from the exes show,I felt Manuela was pitying Mayte and being mean girlish...On another note , does anyone else feel sad/weird that they hired flowergirls/attendants for theirr wedding ?It does feel like a production by Prince,doesn't it?

I felt a bit sad for Mayte at the wedding because it seems she hadn't any friends there(she did mention a couple of close high school friends in Germany) and Prince didn"t seem to habve family there and personally knowing the flower girls were hired smh and that wedding dress???...seems all a bit impersonal , but to each his/her own...

Yes, I agree with your point about the drug use and also him not sharing much with her regarding the WB conflict. I truly think Prince loved and adored Mayte, but I think he was a hopeless romantic and always getting engaged to people. I think the idea of being married was more exciting than actual marriage at that juncture in his life. The idea of 'owning' Mayte also seemed to be appealing to him. He blatantly kept her out of Egypt, even though she could have gone for one year and still ended up in the 7 video, etc. He also said in interviews in 1999 that he was co-dependent and also didn't like it when people spoke to Mayte. Also, I think the April 96 overdose incident is very telling that he was overwhelmed by the situation he was in for many different reasons, and not sure how to handle it.

jayseajay said:

DD55 said:

Chapter 8

Hypnotize, the whole being hypnotized and only then the ability to talk truthfully was a bit telling for me.

Couldn’t they be totally honest in day to day events, in real time? That was the only time he would let her talk without interrupting her. He would repeat back to her what she said, without recriminations. Why would that even be an issue? The relationship is new and full of hope, you would think they would open up to each other.

.

The situation with WB is coming to a head but she says even now she only has a general idea and at the time completely confused by it.

.

He wanted to do MTV unplugged but didn’t because he wouldn’t own the master of the recording. (Someone else on another thread once said - in the fight between TAFKAP vs. WB, the fans lost.)

.

She mentions that she wants to be clear, she never actually saw prince use drugs. Some take this as her hinting he might have, or it could be her way of her saying.. 'look people, I was there and never saw it!' If he did, he never let her see, again she is telling us she never saw drug use!

.

He asks her to take papers to PP, she assumes it had to do with the future of his music should something happen to him, but she never actually saw the contents. Since he was on top of business concerns she assumed he must have had a will, but never really knows. Hummm, I wonder why that one small errand made such an impression on her that years later she not only remembers it but also included it in the book?

.

In a letter to her he states that he has grown up, wants to make serious plans for the future and hopes she can ‘grow up a little more with me as well’. She tells her he will need her support in the next few months. It the same letter he tells of of various properties (business stuff really), is the hidden message to her…. GROW UP and step up to help me?

.

Love the description of his playing at the American Music Awards, January 1995. The censors were watching the rehearsal to make sure there wouldn’t be anything wild in the performance. He had to lip sync, no microphone and chewing gum.

.

She is in Barcelona Spain, he proposes over the phone. The talked and made plans for the future together for another 45 minutes over the phone. It’s funny how he could be open and talk on the phone; sometimes it’s easier than face to face when talking about emotional things. He does make up for the phone proposal later wth a touching proposal and ring!

.

He insists she do an album.

.

Her wedding day the press caught wind of it. He had the limo drive to the church but he rode with the florist so they wouldn’t see him. Kirks Brother officiated the ceromony.

.

He redid the entire house for her, before the wedding, monogramed items all over the home - china, curtains, napkins,….. Nice, but wouldn’t you think a new wife would want to at least help with decorating her home? She said he went out of his way to make it ‘our’ home, but with no input in any decision making as to the decor….IDK, as a woman I would want MY personal touches in the decoration of my home.

- The 'hypnosis' thing: I am really really interested in what people think about this...I cannot for the life of me decide if it is supersweet or creepy af. What do people think is going on with it? The way she describes it, it seems clear that at least for him, it was a way of achieving a certain kind of intimacy with her that he didn't seem to have access to in 'real time.' For some reason it seems there was something about it that allowed him to give up his usual need to be completely in control...but somehow, by doing something which could, in itself, be seen as quite controlling. Mayte obviously experienced it as a way of levelling the power and connecting with him and seems to really have treasured it, so I'm not judging or saying she was wrong to feel that way about it...but just wondered about people's thoughts...

- I do find it weird and interesting that he clearly wasn't talking to her about the WB thing...which considering how huge it was, and how much it seemed to get him fucked up in certain ways (the weight he lost / all the stories about how angry he was, going off on long rants at band members etc.)...is illuminating...at least with regard to what we have been saying about the fantasy aspect of the relationship / how he kept anything 'ugly' or negative out of it. I get he might have wanted an oasis, and that seems understandable...but it also speaks to how little practice they had a dealing with challenging life stuff together in partnership, and how maybe P was never really able to do that with anyone...which is pretty heartbreaking...('Oh little purple guy, everyone knows how strong you are, and everyone will still love you if you're weak sometimes' *sniff*)

- Which brings us to...(and I know this is a controversial topic, so sorry if I offend anyone)...I think Mayte's story tells us very very clearly that with hindsight she recognizes that Prince was sometimes using drugs...basically 'I never saw it, he didn't want me to' says, 'I didn't see it, but I realize now it was happening from time to time and he hid it from me.' There are at least two concrete instances, the overdose, and when he asked her to flush the pills, and then, the 'troubling incidents,' him acting 'loopy', having a migraine, sounding sad and distant and foggy, the disappearing Vicodin, the vomit on the carpet... I think it's also clear from what she says that at least during those years, it was, genuinely, occasional. But I think from what she tells us there is good reason to believe that Prince's drug use was also, from time to time, emotional in nature...and that kind of makes sense to me. He had his coping strategies / defense mechanisms, which were powerful, but limited, and given his background, it makes sense to me that sometimes he would find himself in extreme pain, and not know how to handle it, and that that was his method of last resort...

I agree, but I also think the reason why many of us Prince fans are enfatuated with the idea of Mayte is because she was truly the first woman he publically claimed. Yeah, we may have heard rumors of girlfriends, but he never let us see him indulge in his woman. So, it could be that Mayte was everyone's first time seeing the romantic side of P, which is SUPER beautiful and sweet. We could be confusing his affections for her as unique, when really, that is the only time we had seen him do that in public. His ex girlfriends may have been watching them on TV thinking- been there, done that. Does that make sense?

That said, I'm NOT taking anything away from Mayte. I believe his feelings for her were authentic and I respect anyone who speaks about a person as their soul mate because, quite frankly, who can prove otherwise lol! That goes for anybody, not just P and Mayte.

amethyst68 said:

NotACleverName said:

In Chap 7, while revealing the story of his name change to her, she makes mention of the fact that he wrote about it in their wedding program. Part of that story in the wedding program includes where he named Mayte as his "true soul mate". He did reference that quite often.....that Mayte was his soul mate. I'm just wondering, can anyone recall him calling any other woman he was intimately involved with his soul mate? I can't. Seems he didn't toss that around too freely or often.

I don't recall a time where he ever publicly referred to someone he was with as a soul mate except Mayte. I read an article from the 1996 where he mentions that many women have told him they were his soul mate but he never felt it until Mayte. To add to that, I've never heard him talk about his love for any other woman like he did with Mayte.

Without speaking to the women directly, we may not know. I do know that he and Devin Devasquez waited to be intimate, he and Sheila E., and probably Mani (barf). I think one of his favorite types of 'foreplay' was mind sex and part of his experience with a woman was the build up, so that could be why he often waited before jumping in the sack. I also think that there could have been women who he may have been fine with never having sex with them, but they probably grew enfatuated with his personality and begged him for it. Him being a gentleman, obliged. It sounds odd, but I believe it to be true.

206Michelle said:

NickiStarr said:

Hmmm...that may be, but P broke her heart and they were physically intimate. There are other rumors about her, but I won't digress. My point is, Mayte didn't acknowledge Nona as one of his lovers but she did Carmen. I imagine that Carmen and Nona were both the same thing Mayte was at first: a friend with benefits. Mayte was lucky that it developed into more.

From what Mayte describes in the book, she and Prince started out as friends and fellow artists. Their relationship becomes sexual in February of 1993, meaning that Prince and Mayte knew each other for about 2.5 years before they had sex. With how many of his other girlfriends/muses did he wait so long to have a sexual relationship?

I think this chapter demonstrates how careless P was with Mayte at times. To throw her to the dogs with those grown adults, knowing he is sleeping with one of them (Lori)...what did he expect to happen? I was also so frustrated by the fact that only HE could do the summonining. Mayte would just wait and hope to be called by him. Everyone was always at his beck and call. Why was he okay with this? Ugh!

The whipped cream incident was a message sent by Prince- I'm the boss, I'm in control, nothing is more important. They were clearly flirtatious at this point, she dropped everything to be there, yet he pulls the pay dock stunt. To top it off, he didn't tell her to her face he was docking, he let his assistant do it for him. SMH!

206Michelle said:

I am re-posting the timeline/summary for chapter six. I originally posted this yesterday in reply #478.

.

Chapter Six Timeline/Summary

.

Just to refresh everyone, when chapter five ends, Mayte has joined the NPG and is living in Minnesota. At the end of the chapter, Mayte discusses how Prince was always impeccably dressed and groomed, and notes the irony of him being found dead with his clothes on backwards and his socks inside-out.

.

Chapter six

1992 – Mayte is preparing for the Diamonds and Pearls Tour. She has a minor role on the tour. She did not have much of a social life outside of Prince, and would become lonely if he was out of town or too busy to hang out with her. Carmen Electra is working on an album at Paisley Park and was his girlfriend at the time. Carmen and Mayte hang out one time when Prince is out of town. Mayte notes here that Prince’s top girlfriend or woman was always in Minneapolis.

.

April 1992 – Mayte performs in her first show with Prince, which took place at the Tokyo Dome in Tokyo, Japan. Mayte, Prince, and the NPG pray before the show. Mayte notes that Prince and company always prayed before every show. Prince and company spend a week in Japan and while there, film the music video for “The Continental.” “The Continental” video also has footage from other sources, including concert footage and footage of Mayte in Cairo.

.

1992 – After going to Japan, the Diamonds and Pearls Tour goes to Australia for 20 days. After a two-week break, the tour continues to Europe. Mayte notes that the tour had three groups of people: the crew, the band, and Prince. While Mayte was formally a part of the band, she often travelled with Prince. Mayte’s role in Prince’s world is not clear, but she is close with Prince, and her closeness with him causes some tension due to other members of the band being jealous of her.

.

1992 – As the Diamonds and Pearls Tour heads across Europe, the record label where Mayte recorded briefly a few years previously finds out that she is on Prince’s tour and releases her record “Too Dramatic.”

.

1992 – One night while the tour is in Europe, Mayte visits Prince in his hotel and then returns to the hotel where she and other members of the band are staying. Some members of the NPG, including Diamond and Pearl, are gossiping about Mayte and her role in Prince’s world. Mayte comes to the realization that Prince is keeping her around so that she does not go to Cairo. She confides in Prince about the gossiping incident. Not long after this incident, Prince writes Mayte a letter to let her know that she is important to him and that other women are jealous of her.

.

1992 – Mayte notices changes in her body because she is not dancing as much as she has in the past. Prince criticizes Mayte for her weight and tells his accountant to dock her pay. Prince’s actions make Mayte angry. She starts dancing on the side stage at concerts when she is not performing onstage, and quickly works herself back into shape.

.

1992 – When the tour ends, Mayte goes to visit her parents and then returns to Minnesota. Someone from Paisley Park tells Mayte that she has to start paying for the rent of her apartment, even though her salary remains the same.

.

1992 – Mayte and Prince are not formally dating, but they are more than friends and he is also her employer. One day at a rehearsal, when Carmen Electra is present, Prince shakes hands with Mayte, indicating that she was more than just his friend, that she is his woman. Mayte also starts having a bodyguard, indicating that she is Prince’s woman. However, at this time, Prince and Mayte do not yet have a sexual relationship.

.

Around 1994 – During the time when “The Most Beautiful Girl in the World” is popular, after Mayte and Prince have become sexually involved but prior to their engagement, Prince writes her a heartfelt letter. He writes that he has never been interested in talking with a woman about having children, but he wants to discuss having children with her. He ends the letter by writing “ will never leave u” 16 times. Mayte reflects on how she read this letter toward the end of their marriage because he was no longer speaking these kind of passionate, commitment-oriented words to her at that time. She also notes seeing him shake another woman’s hand. She discusses the relationships that he had with various women, and her relationships with a few of these women. She also states her significance as his wife and the mother of his child, and that their relationship was unique.

NickiStarr said:

Yes, I agree with your point about the drug use and also him not sharing much with her regarding the WB conflict. I truly think Prince loved and adored Mayte, but I think he was a hopeless romantic and always getting engaged to people. I think the idea of being married was more exciting than actual marriage at that juncture in his life. The idea of 'owning' Mayte also seemed to be appealing to him. He blatantly kept her out of Egypt, even though she could have gone for one year and still ended up in the 7 video, etc. He also said in interviews in 1999 that he was co-dependent and also didn't like it when people spoke to Mayte. Also, I think the April 96 overdose incident is very telling that he was overwhelmed by the situation he was in for many different reasons, and not sure how to handle it.

jayseajay said:

- The 'hypnosis' thing: I am really really interested in what people think about this...I cannot for the life of me decide if it is supersweet or creepy af. What do people think is going on with it? The way she describes it, it seems clear that at least for him, it was a way of achieving a certain kind of intimacy with her that he didn't seem to have access to in 'real time.' For some reason it seems there was something about it that allowed him to give up his usual need to be completely in control...but somehow, by doing something which could, in itself, be seen as quite controlling. Mayte obviously experienced it as a way of levelling the power and connecting with him and seems to really have treasured it, so I'm not judging or saying she was wrong to feel that way about it...but just wondered about people's thoughts...

- I do find it weird and interesting that he clearly wasn't talking to her about the WB thing...which considering how huge it was, and how much it seemed to get him fucked up in certain ways (the weight he lost / all the stories about how angry he was, going off on long rants at band members etc.)...is illuminating...at least with regard to what we have been saying about the fantasy aspect of the relationship / how he kept anything 'ugly' or negative out of it. I get he might have wanted an oasis, and that seems understandable...but it also speaks to how little practice they had a dealing with challenging life stuff together in partnership, and how maybe P was never really able to do that with anyone...which is pretty heartbreaking...('Oh little purple guy, everyone knows how strong you are, and everyone will still love you if you're weak sometimes' *sniff*)

- Which brings us to...(and I know this is a controversial topic, so sorry if I offend anyone)...I think Mayte's story tells us very very clearly that with hindsight she recognizes that Prince was sometimes using drugs...basically 'I never saw it, he didn't want me to' says, 'I didn't see it, but I realize now it was happening from time to time and he hid it from me.' There are at least two concrete instances, the overdose, and when he asked her to flush the pills, and then, the 'troubling incidents,' him acting 'loopy', having a migraine, sounding sad and distant and foggy, the disappearing Vicodin, the vomit on the carpet... I think it's also clear from what she says that at least during those years, it was, genuinely, occasional. But I think from what she tells us there is good reason to believe that Prince's drug use was also, from time to time, emotional in nature...and that kind of makes sense to me. He had his coping strategies / defense mechanisms, which were powerful, but limited, and given his background, it makes sense to me that sometimes he would find himself in extreme pain, and not know how to handle it, and that that was his method of last resort...

I wonder how much of the camera crew going to Egypt was to have someone keeping an eye on Mayte for Prince..Did she work as a dancer while she was there ,or maybe she would have been "prevented"

DD55 said:

NickiStarr said:

Yes, I agree with your point about the drug use and also him not sharing much with her regarding the WB conflict. I truly think Prince loved and adored Mayte, but I think he was a hopeless romantic and always getting engaged to people. I think the idea of being married was more exciting than actual marriage at that juncture in his life. The idea of 'owning' Mayte also seemed to be appealing to him. He blatantly kept her out of Egypt, even though she could have gone for one year and still ended up in the 7 video, etc. He also said in interviews in 1999 that he was co-dependent and also didn't like it when people spoke to Mayte. Also, I think the April 96 overdose incident is very telling that he was overwhelmed by the situation he was in for many different reasons, and not sure how to handle it.

Penny, I’ll take this out if I shouldn’t make a personal observation:

.

His fight with WB and the industry WAS REAL, He was in the press all the time. But the name change made him sometimes look silly and he lost some credibility after all the ridicule in the press (especially after signing a ‘$100M contract). That had to create stress and was a situation he couldn't controll. It took ‘AIR TIME’ away from the real struggle - artists’ rights. Remember this ‘fight’ ran the course of a few years. How could he not discuss it with his spouse!? After all he wanted her to become part of the business.

.

I’m old enough; I saw this play out in the media in real time. My memory and impressions of that time, the media focused on the name TAFKAP just as much, if not more, than the freedom struggle. Could his fight been easier without that noise? We’ll never know.

.

But the entire situation had to emotionally take a toll on him and on them as a couple, thereby effecting how he reacted to other events in his life and his ability to cope with things he couldn’t control. Yet she says very little of the WB situation, but it had to consume much of his time and energy.

.

She was with him at every interview, she spoke for him (tora tora anyone)… I think she just didn’t want to go there in the book. I mean How can she not understand.

.

This is from memory and impressions, if I’m off base I will freely admit so.

Your post is fine.

Ottensen said:

206Michelle said:

I wrote about this in reply #654 and no one responded, so I guess I'll just raise it again.

.

Listening to the song "Sweet Baby," (my favourite on the album), I'm wondering if anyone else connected the lyrics of this song with some of the drama she was going through with the other members of the band that she discusses on pp. 129-130. Did anyone else pick up on this?

.

Stand tall, (tall)
Sweet baby, (baby)
Don't u fall
U ain't the only one gettin' beat down
It happens 2 us all
The road u chose 2 walk in this life (the road u choose 2 walk in this life)
Is one that leads into the next
So sweet baby, stand tall (sweet baby, stand tall)
Stand tall (sweet baby)
Sweet baby, hold your tears back now
Better days gonna come your way soon, oh yeah sweet baby
Someway, somehow

.

I felt that after reading chapter 6, and also part of chapter 7, this song makes so much more sense.

.

I always kind of figured that he wrote the song for or about Mayte because the video is almost entirely footage of her, but it never totally made sense because in the first verse, it sounds like he's talking about a break-up, and she had never experienced that because P was her first boyfriend.

[Edited 4/12/17 17:43pm]

At the time, I saw the song represented two-fold: initially, I just assumed the song was really in deference to one of his other ladies since it was clear to me that Mayte was his muse, and to some degree, being groomed to an elevated position in the Purple Harem. Also, if I remember correctly, that Sweet Baby video was part of the ongoing plot narrative for that 3 Chains of Gold mini-mini movie, where he frames his "cookie love affair" with the young exotic "Princess" as a one wrought with obstacles and evil forces conspiring to keep them apart, etc., etc. Ironically, as a bit of odd foreshadowing, when I watched this movie with a friend during the Symbol period,I remember the scene of Mayte toting her little sad suitcase up the road looking like a lost puppy, and my friend screaming at the screen "GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN, GIRL, YOU AIN'T READY FOR IT, CHILE!!!" at the screen. Truer words have never been spoken, even if only in jest...

Ottensen, I haven't been able to watch 3 Chains o' Gold from start to finish because it's out of print and really hard. (Seriously, if anyone wants to sell their copy of 3CoG, send me an orgnote.) I have seen maybe 6-8 of the videos from 3CoG/ album though. I can imagine that the song Sweet Baby makes more sense in the context of the entire 3CoG compilation.

"Hypnoparadise"....I see now where that song comes from. He mentions it in reference to Mayte in this chapter.

Interesting, he took the things Mayte told him in her state of hypnosis and included them in the wedding program.

She says that duirng the hypnosis, “this gave him a way to tell me everything he couldn’t say in real time. It gave him a way to be honest with me about the family he wanted to create, about his fears and struggles. He could speak about other women in his life”. Does that mean that she was hypnotizing him as well?

She concedes that "The Most Beautiful Gir..." was written for all women but I'm pretty sure that song was written for/inspired by Mayte although some other women would like to take credit that it was written for them.

I thought it was cute that Prince had more ideas about the wedding than Mayte had. I loved how she described him wanting to create a "beautifully orchestrated memory" for them, not the audience. She said "the memory of it all was a gift he wanted to give me, along with the music".

DD55 said:

NickiStarr said:

Yes, I agree with your point about the drug use and also him not sharing much with her regarding the WB conflict. I truly think Prince loved and adored Mayte, but I think he was a hopeless romantic and always getting engaged to people. I think the idea of being married was more exciting than actual marriage at that juncture in his life. The idea of 'owning' Mayte also seemed to be appealing to him. He blatantly kept her out of Egypt, even though she could have gone for one year and still ended up in the 7 video, etc. He also said in interviews in 1999 that he was co-dependent and also didn't like it when people spoke to Mayte. Also, I think the April 96 overdose incident is very telling that he was overwhelmed by the situation he was in for many different reasons, and not sure how to handle it.

Penny, I’ll take this out if I shouldn’t make a personal observation:

.

His fight with WB and the industry WAS REAL, He was in the press all the time. But the name change made him sometimes look silly and he lost some credibility after all the ridicule in the press (especially after signing a ‘$100M contract). That had to create stress and was a situation he couldn't controll. It took ‘AIR TIME’ away from the real struggle - artists’ rights. Remember this ‘fight’ ran the course of a few years. How could he not discuss it with his spouse!? After all he wanted her to become part of the business.

.

I’m old enough; I saw this play out in the media in real time. My memory and impressions of that time, the media focused on the name TAFKAP just as much, if not more, than the freedom struggle. Could his fight been easier without that noise? We’ll never know.

.

But the entire situation had to emotionally take a toll on him and on them as a couple, thereby effecting how he reacted to other events in his life and his ability to cope with things he couldn’t control. Yet she says very little of the WB situation, but it had to consume much of his time and energy.

.

She was with him at every interview, she spoke for him (tora tora anyone)… I think she just didn’t want to go there in the book. I mean How can she not understand.

.

This is from memory and impressions, if I’m off base I will freely admit so.

I agree with your comment. I remember that time vividly as well. I don't think we know how much he shared or didn't share with her but he has expressed that she was there for him and "stood by his side" during that time, which seemed to be the most stressful time in his career.

I wish she'd given for details about the wedding and the wedding reception. I remember reading an article about it. Dolphins seemed to be used throughout. I think the ice sculpture was a dolphin and guests were given chocolate dolphins. Does anyone know the significance of dolphins to Prince and Mayte?

PennyPurple said:

Purplestar88 said:

Do you think Manuela was tellling the thuth about the burning of the stuff if you feel she is not to be trusted?

I think she was telling the truth that the stuff was burned, it is documented in M2 and Prince divorce record that she asked Prince if he burned her stuff like he burned M1's? I am thinking (not fact) that she is probably the one who told M1 about her stuff being burned, as a friend in sheeps clothing, just to get a dig in, at M1.

I wonder if Mani was the assistant who burned the items.

nelcp777 said:

PennyPurple said:

I think she was telling the truth that the stuff was burned, it is documented in M2 and Prince divorce record that she asked Prince if he burned her stuff like he burned M1's? I am thinking (not fact) that she is probably the one who told M1 about her stuff being burned, as a friend in sheeps clothing, just to get a dig in, at M1.

I wonder if Mani was the assistant who burned the items.

That idea has been tossed around by many of us.

80tomato said:

jayseajay said:

DD55 said:

Chapter 8

Hypnotize, the whole being hypnotized and only then the ability to talk truthfully was a bit telling for me.

Couldn’t they be totally honest in day to day events, in real time? That was the only time he would let her talk without interrupting her. He would repeat back to her what she said, without recriminations. Why would that even be an issue? The relationship is new and full of hope, you would think they would open up to each other.

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The situation with WB is coming to a head but she says even now she only has a general idea and at the time completely confused by it.

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He wanted to do MTV unplugged but didn’t because he wouldn’t own the master of the recording. (Someone else on another thread once said - in the fight between TAFKAP vs. WB, the fans lost.)

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She mentions that she wants to be clear, she never actually saw prince use drugs. Some take this as her hinting he might have, or it could be her way of her saying.. 'look people, I was there and never saw it!' If he did, he never let her see, again she is telling us she never saw drug use!

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He asks her to take papers to PP, she assumes it had to do with the future of his music should something happen to him, but she never actually saw the contents. Since he was on top of business concerns she assumed he must have had a will, but never really knows. Hummm, I wonder why that one small errand made such an impression on her that years later she not only remembers it but also included it in the book?

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In a letter to her he states that he has grown up, wants to make serious plans for the future and hopes she can ‘grow up a little more with me as well’. She tells her he will need her support in the next few months. It the same letter he tells of of various properties (business stuff really), is the hidden message to her…. GROW UP and step up to help me?

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Love the description of his playing at the American Music Awards, January 1995. The censors were watching the rehearsal to make sure there wouldn’t be anything wild in the performance. He had to lip sync, no microphone and chewing gum.

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She is in Barcelona Spain, he proposes over the phone. The talked and made plans for the future together for another 45 minutes over the phone. It’s funny how he could be open and talk on the phone; sometimes it’s easier than face to face when talking about emotional things. He does make up for the phone proposal later wth a touching proposal and ring!

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He insists she do an album.

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Her wedding day the press caught wind of it. He had the limo drive to the church but he rode with the florist so they wouldn’t see him. Kirks Brother officiated the ceromony.

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He redid the entire house for her, before the wedding, monogramed items all over the home - china, curtains, napkins,….. Nice, but wouldn’t you think a new wife would want to at least help with decorating her home? She said he went out of his way to make it ‘our’ home, but with no input in any decision making as to the decor….IDK, as a woman I would want MY personal touches in the decoration of my home.

- The 'hypnosis' thing: I am really really interested in what people think about this...I cannot for the life of me decide if it is supersweet or creepy af. What do people think is going on with it? The way she describes it, it seems clear that at least for him, it was a way of achieving a certain kind of intimacy with her that he didn't seem to have access to in 'real time.' For some reason it seems there was something about it that allowed him to give up his usual need to be completely in control...but somehow, by doing something which could, in itself, be seen as quite controlling. Mayte obviously experienced it as a way of levelling the power and connecting with him and seems to really have treasured it, so I'm not judging or saying she was wrong to feel that way about it...but just wondered about people's thoughts...

- I do find it weird and interesting that he clearly wasn't talking to her about the WB thing...which considering how huge it was, and how much it seemed to get him fucked up in certain ways (the weight he lost / all the stories about how angry he was, going off on long rants at band members etc.)...is illuminating...at least with regard to what we have been saying about the fantasy aspect of the relationship / how he kept anything 'ugly' or negative out of it. I get he might have wanted an oasis, and that seems understandable...but it also speaks to how little practice they had a dealing with challenging life stuff together in partnership, and how maybe P was never really able to do that with anyone...which is pretty heartbreaking...('Oh little purple guy, everyone knows how strong you are, and everyone will still love you if you're weak sometimes' *sniff*)

- Which brings us to...(and I know this is a controversial topic, so sorry if I offend anyone)...I think Mayte's story tells us very very clearly that with hindsight she recognizes that Prince was sometimes using drugs...basically 'I never saw it, he didn't want me to' says, 'I didn't see it, but I realize now it was happening from time to time and he hid it from me.' There are at least two concrete instances, the overdose, and when he asked her to flush the pills, and then, the 'troubling incidents,' him acting 'loopy', having a migraine, sounding sad and distant and foggy, the disappearing Vicodin, the vomit on the carpet... I think it's also clear from what she says that at least during those years, it was, genuinely, occasional. But I think from what she tells us there is good reason to believe that Prince's drug use was also, from time to time, emotional in nature...and that kind of makes sense to me. He had his coping strategies / defense mechanisms, which were powerful, but limited, and given his background, it makes sense to me that sometimes he would find himself in extreme pain, and not know how to handle it, and that that was his method of last resort...

I think that the hypnotic conversations were weird and unconventional, but then again, so much about Prince and Mayte's relationship was unconventional. The way that their relationship started, with him seeing her dance tape at a concert---very unusual. The way that their relationship developed---spending ridiculous amounts of money FedExing each other tapes---very unusual. The guardianship document---very unusual. picking out Mayte's wedding dress---very unusual. I could go on and on with examples. So, to answer your question, yeah, the hypnotic conversations were very unusual, but so was their relationship...and the fact that their relationship was so unusual kind of normalizes the hypnotic conversations or makes the hypnotic conversations seem less weird, I guess. (I'm not expressing myself well here). Also, given Prince's serious trust/attachment/abandonment issues, his difficulty being vulnerable, and his difficulty dealing with the harsh realities of life, the hypnotic conversations into the basket (for lack of a better word) of behavioral tendencies he exhibited during he and Mayte's marriage ---for example, the annulment and the Oprah interview after Amiir's death.

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I agree with you about Mayte's knowledge of 's dispute with Warner Brothers. She discusses it at length in the book, as we have all read, but almost everything that she shares about the dispute is information that the public (especially Prince fans) already knew. I thought that she might have some unique insights into the dispute, but she really doesn't. The only thing that was new to me was when she talks about 's desire for his name change to force people to think about concepts of identity and conventionality. (I don't know if the whole identity-conventionality component of the name change is something that has been made public before her book, or if it's just new to me.) It's telling that she admits being confused by the situation to this day.

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She describes herself as 's oasis makes a lot of sense---just another way for to escape from reality. Reading your thoughts, jayseajay, I also started wondering if may have intended to avoid sharing certain details with Mayte about the dispute with WB as a way to (a) protect her or keep her from having anxiety about the situation, and/or (b) because he felt vulnerable, namely that he was fearful that she might leave him if she knew more about the dispute. I don't know the answers, but I'm sharing these thoughts to see if others have a similar perspective as I do.

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As for the possible drug use, I think it's probably a hindsight-is-20/20 type of situation...those isolated episodes make more sense now in light of the Moline plane incident, his death, and the reports that he may have been using/abusing painkillers.

LBrent said:

jayseajay said:

- The 'hypnosis' thing: I am really really interested in what people think about this...I cannot for the life of me decide if it is supersweet or creepy af. What do people think is going on with it? The way she describes it, it seems clear that at least for him, it was a way of achieving a certain kind of intimacy with her that he didn't seem to have access to in 'real time.' For some reason it seems there was something about it that allowed him to give up his usual need to be completely in control...but somehow, by doing something which could, in itself, be seen as quite controlling. Mayte obviously experienced it as a way of levelling the power and connecting with him and seems to really have treasured it, so I'm not judging or saying she was wrong to feel that way about it...but just wondered about people's thoughts...

I'm withya...Sweet, but also creepy af. And I think you're riight about him possibly feeling it was the only way to acheive a certain kind of intimacy. I wonder if he practiced this with other partners. I've never heard anyone else speak about it.

As for the "drugs"...This part has me thinking something else.

I think P was having seizures all these years and hiding that from everyone cuz he saw it as a sign of weakness. The biggest clue for me as a nurse was the vomit. I think he was referring to the episodes as migraines and maybe sometimes the seizures were accompanied by headaches afterwards and he took something, a painkiller, for that headache. I think in later years he took painkillers at times for his hip/joint pain, but I don't believe that was to the extent of dependancy.

[Edited 4/13/17 0:17am]

LBrent, BINGO! I'm so glad you brought up the seizures because I think that people on the org and in the media keep talking about these instances of illness/loopiness/migranes using the drug angle and do not consider the seizure angle.

206Michelle said:

LBrent said:

I'm withya...Sweet, but also creepy af. And I think you're riight about him possibly feeling it was the only way to acheive a certain kind of intimacy. I wonder if he practiced this with other partners. I've never heard anyone else speak about it.

As for the "drugs"...This part has me thinking something else.

I think P was having seizures all these years and hiding that from everyone cuz he saw it as a sign of weakness. The biggest clue for me as a nurse was the vomit. I think he was referring to the episodes as migraines and maybe sometimes the seizures were accompanied by headaches afterwards and he took something, a painkiller, for that headache. I think in later years he took painkillers at times for his hip/joint pain, but I don't believe that was to the extent of dependancy.

[Edited 4/13/17 0:17am]

LBrent, BINGO! I'm so glad you brought up the seizures because I think that people on the org and in the media keep talking about these instances of illness/loopiness/migranes using the drug angle and do not consider the seizure angle.

yes ,but there is the fact he had his stomach pumped in the 1996 incident and ,of course the overdose last year RIPPrince

jayseajay said:

LBrent said:

I'm withya...Sweet, but also creepy af. And I think you're riight about him possibly feeling it was the only way to acheive a certain kind of intimacy. I wonder if he practiced this with other partners. I've never heard anyone else speak about it.

As for the "drugs"...This part has me thinking something else.

I think P was having seizures all these years and hiding that from everyone cuz he saw it as a sign of weakness. The biggest clue for me as a nurse was the vomit. I think he was referring to the episodes as migraines and maybe sometimes the seizures were accompanied by headaches afterwards and he took something, a painkiller, for that headache. I think in later years he took painkillers at times for his hip/joint pain, but I don't believe that was to the extent of dependancy.

[Edited 4/13/17 0:17am]

That's really interesting. Do you think they were residual/minor seizures from the epilepsy? I do wonder if that was all there was to it tho, because it seems often there was also wine involved, which would be odd if it was just a response to seizure...but I think you are onto something there...it explains as you say, the talk of migraines and headaches. Maybe then there are three things going on then, some kind of residual epileptic stuff, later the hip/joint pain, and also an occasional emotional crutch when things got desperate...I thought the timing of the first overdose in relation to the visit from his dad was maybe telling...because it seems way odd, he's newly married, clearly crazy in love, there is a baby he really wants on the way, and he overdoses?

I didn't read much into her mentioning wine in the book. When she mentions that he drank port wine, I took this detail at face value and interpreted it to be a statement of fact that he drank occasionally.

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I also find the timing of the stomach pumping incident to be really odd because she describes this time in their marriage as being really happy. On p. 194, she says that not long after John Nelson ('s father) visited PP, "things started to go sideways." I wonder if maybe John Nelson's visit to PP had anything to do with the stompach pumping incident. I wonder if maybe the strained relationship between and his father was a possible reason for him taking too many aspirin and then having to have be hospitalized. Could it have been a seizure? It's hard to know. She doesn't elaborate much on what she thinks caused the stomach pumping incident.

I've said this before but, again, I love his letters to her....they are beautiful. When he says "Eye love you with my soul. No one has ever or will ever get close 2 my soul the way u have.". He wanted to have "2 angels". I can't help but to think that the loss of their child lead him back into his old habits and if they were able to have children, things may have been different. But then again, maybe not.

LBrent said:

Yes, awesome job, Michelle.

Also, it's interesting to note that the time period of P's identity as was 1993 to 2000. 7 years. And we all know the number 7 held significance to him.

Also, she remarks that whenever she would think or stare at him a few seconds, tada...he'd either call or appear.

I remember from an interveiw he gave about what his wife called him, P said if they were always together, she'd never have to "call him".

existed for 7 years...Great point, I never even thought about that.

206Michelle said:

jayseajay said:

That's really interesting. Do you think they were residual/minor seizures from the epilepsy? I do wonder if that was all there was to it tho, because it seems often there was also wine involved, which would be odd if it was just a response to seizure...but I think you are onto something there...it explains as you say, the talk of migraines and headaches. Maybe then there are three things going on then, some kind of residual epileptic stuff, later the hip/joint pain, and also an occasional emotional crutch when things got desperate...I thought the timing of the first overdose in relation to the visit from his dad was maybe telling...because it seems way odd, he's newly married, clearly crazy in love, there is a baby he really wants on the way, and he overdoses?

I didn't read much into her mentioning wine in the book. When she mentions that he drank port wine, I took this detail at face value and interpreted it to be a statement of fact that he drank occasionally.

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I also find the timing of the stomach pumping incident to be really odd because she describes this time in their marriage as being really happy. On p. 194, she says that not long after John Nelson ('s father) visited PP, "things started to go sideways." I wonder if maybe John Nelson's visit to PP had anything to do with the stompach pumping incident. I wonder if maybe the strained relationship between and his father was a possible reason for him taking too many aspirin and then having to have be hospitalized. Could it have been a seizure? It's hard to know. She doesn't elaborate much on what she thinks caused the stomach pumping incident.

That is interesting .Mayte mentions the timing of the stomach pumping in relation to the proximity of prince seeing his Dad on the recent CBC interview...i guess we will never really know