what about the hired flower girls ??? and no mention of whether his parents or brothers and sisters were there ...I am assuming they were not as Mayte says later that she hadn't met his father until after the wedding

[Edited 4/12/17 20:11pm]

How do u guys feel about manuela after reading the book? eye honestly wanted to like her after reading the book but now after Mayte said what happened with the handshake with manuela, eye just got very angry with her. Like why would she do that is she knew he was married?

206Michelle said:

About their wedding...they were married at Park Avenue United Methodist Church. I find this odd since 's mom was Baptist, his dad was Seventh-Day Adventist, Mayte's mom was Catholic, and her dad was an atheist. I've always wondered how they ended up getting married at a Methodist Church since usually, a couple has to be a member of the congregation in order to be married at a particular church.

.

I did find an article explaining some of Prince's connections to the Park Avenue UMC: http://www.minnesotaumc.o...ey-4595697

I wondered the same thing, but I figured a hefty donation smoothed things over.

80tomato said:

what about the hired flower girls ??? and no mention of whether his parents or brothers and sisters were there ...I am assuming they were not as Mayte says later that she hadn't met his father until after the wedding

[Edited 4/12/17 20:11pm]

Prince's side of the family had a falling out with him and he and his dad didn't see each other for a while after the wedding when she was pregnant.

312131213121 said:

How do u guys feel about manuela after reading the book? eye honestly wanted to like her after reading the book but now after Mayte said what happened with the handshake with manuela, eye just got very angry with her. Like why would she do that is she knew he was married?

Chapter Eight Timeline/Summary: Part 2

Sometime in 1993/early 1994 – After the Act II Tour ended, asks Mayte to help him reinvent the experience at his Glam Slam club in Minneapolis with a concept called Erotic City. Using some of ’s unreleased music, Mayte creates some vignettes.

.

In mid-January 1994, she does the filming of the vignettes (aka show) and then flies to LA, which is where was working at that moment in time. He had bought a house and they were staying there. She shows him the vignettes/shows and he loves them. He goes back to the studio but she is tired and stays in the house. An earthquake takes place. She recalls being very frightened by the earthquake. was unable to call her and became extremely worried about her. Thankfully, they were both unharmed. They took the first flight back to Minneapolis.

.

Mid 1994 - is so impressed with Mayte’s vignettes for Glam Slam Minneapolis that puts her in charge of doing the make-over of the Glam Slam club in Miami.

.

Mid 1994 – Mayte works on a show for the celebration of ’s first birthday on June 7, 1994. and Mayte celebrate his first birthday as with a performance at the Glam Slam Miami.

.

January 1995 – received the American Music Award of Merit. At the AMA show, the NPG puts on a major performance which allows to “put Prince to bed,” and be reborn as . He wanted to play live, but the show’s organizers would not allow this and wanted him to lip sync. Instead of lip syncing, performed without a microphone and chewed bubble gum during the performance. The performance was called “The Purple Medley.” During the dress rehearsal for the “The Purple Medley,” Prince instructs the NPG not to go all out with the rehearsal because there where censors watching to see if they were going to do anything offensive. Due to the censors, some parts of the final performance did not make it into the live broadcast.

.

Summer of 1995 – Mayte starts to become exhausted while performing and promoting in Europe.

.

Last week of July of 1995 – was in LA and Mayte was in Barcelona with other members of the NPG in order to promote The Gold Experience. Due to time differences, they kept missing each other’s calls.

.

July 25, 1995 - While she was doing a press event in Barcelona, Mayte and share a couple of phone calls. During the last phone call, he asks her to marry him. Mama is also staying at the hotel, and Mayte was able to share this incredibly joyful moment with her. Mayte was surprised when he popped the question because they had not discussed marriage.

.

Summer 1995 – When Mayte arrives back in Minnesota, is already executing his grand scheme for married life, including renovations to the house and to Paisley Park. Mayte had bought a wedding band and insisted on wearing the ring as soon as he got it fitted because he felt that he was already married to Mayte in his heart and mind.

.

October 1995 – Prince makes a romantic obstacle course of sorts for Mayte to go through, and at the end of the “obstacle course” was her engagement ring.

.

Late 1995/Early 1996 – Mayte hires a wedding planner. is intimately involved in all aspects of planning the wedding.

.

January 1996 – Prince and the NPG tour Japan for a couple of weeks. Early one morning, she awakes in the hotel room, hears him playing the piano, and the two share a tender moment. He was working on Kamasutra, which was the music that was played at their wedding.

.

Early 1996 – Mayte starts work on her album project Child of the Sun.

.

Early 1996 – Just before the release of Child of the Sun, writes Mayte a heartfelt letter. He talks about how much he likes her new album and how he is looking forward to his new life as . He professes his love for and devotion to her. He mentions children, including the caveat that “If they’re not your babies, ain’t havin’ none!”

.

Early 1996 - creates a beautiful wedding program. Mama complains that she doesn’t get to do anything for Mayte’s wedding, so Mayte gives Mama the job of making favors using almonds.

.

February 14, 1996 – and Mayte's wedding day. The local press learns about the wedding. In order to travel to the wedding undetected, rides in the back of the van carrying the flowers. ( ordered a half million dollars worth of flowers in addition to the ones that were already a part of the wedding plan.) Kirk Johnson’s brother, Keith, officiates the ceremony. A small number of people are present for the wedding ceremony. After the ceremony, the couple enjoys a small private dinner at Paisley Park. They dance their first dance to song that is completely new to Mayte, “Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife.” They go back to the house. Instead of going to a large party on the Paisley Park soundstage, takes her to their house. He shows her all of the renovations. He takes her to the bedroom where there is a crib and plays another song that he composed for her, “Let’s Have a Baby.”

206Michelle said:

About their wedding...they were married at Park Avenue United Methodist Church. I find this odd since 's mom was Baptist, his dad was Seventh-Day Adventist, Mayte's mom was Catholic, and her dad was an atheist. I've always wondered how they ended up getting married at a Methodist Church since usually, a couple has to be a member of the congregation in order to be married at a particular church.

.

I did find an article explaining some of Prince's connections to the Park Avenue UMC: http://www.minnesotaumc.o...ey-4595697

I thought about that too, however it was Kirk's brother who married them. So Kirk probably arranged the church, or at least lent a hand in it. Wasn't Kirk P's best man?

312131213121 said:

How do u guys feel about manuela after reading the book? eye honestly wanted to like her after reading the book but now after Mayte said what happened with the handshake with manuela, eye just got very angry with her. Like why would she do that is she knew he was married?

I'll wait 2 comment on Mani when it is time 2 discuss chapters 10/11.

DD55 said:

206Michelle said:

About their wedding...they were married at Park Avenue United Methodist Church. I find this odd since 's mom was Baptist, his dad was Seventh-Day Adventist, Mayte's mom was Catholic, and her dad was an atheist. I've always wondered how they ended up getting married at a Methodist Church since usually, a couple has to be a member of the congregation in order to be married at a particular church.

.

I did find an article explaining some of Prince's connections to the Park Avenue UMC: http://www.minnesotaumc.o...ey-4595697

I thought about that too, however it was Kirk's brother who married them. So Kirk probably arranged the church, or at least lent a hand in it. Wasn't Kirk P's best man?

Yes, Kirk was his best man.

LBrent said:

80tomato said:

Maybe Prince was the adulterer already? and thus it would be legal ,if what you write is correct

The criteria for a legal anullment didn't exist:

http://family.findlaw.com...s-for.html

80tomato, I think what LBrent is saying is that any annulment that they got was not a legal one, but only good in the eyes of the JW organization. They got a divorce to end their marriage legally.

LBrent said:

DD55 said:

Chapter 8

Hypnotize, the whole being hypnotized and only then the ability to talk truthfully was a bit telling for me.

Couldn’t they be totally honest in day to day events, in real time? That was the only time he would let her talk without interrupting her. He would repeat back to her what she said, without recriminations. Why would that even be an issue? The relationship is new and full of hope, you would think they would open up to each other.

.

The situation with WB is coming to a head but she says even now she only has a general idea and at the time completely confused by it.

.

He wanted to do MTV unplugged but didn’t because he wouldn’t own the master of the recording. (Someone else on another thread once said - in the fight between TAFKAP vs. WB, the fans lost.)

.

She mentions that she wants to be clear, she never actually saw prince use drugs. Some take this as her hinting he might have, or it could be her way of her saying.. 'look people, I was there and never saw it!' If he did, he never let her see, again she is telling us she never saw drug use!

.

He asks her to take papers to PP, she assumes it had to do with the future of his music should something happen to him, but she never actually saw the contents. Since he was on top of business concerns she assumed he must have had a will, but never really knows. Hummm, I wonder why that one small errand made such an impression on her that years later she not only remembers it but also included it in the book?

.

In a letter to her he states that he has grown up, wants to make serious plans for the future and hopes she can ‘grow up a little more with me as well’. She tells her he will need her support in the next few months. It the same letter he tells of of various properties (business stuff really), is the hidden message to her…. GROW UP and step up to help me?

.

Love the description of his playing at the American Music Awards, January 1995. The censors were watching the rehearsal to make sure there wouldn’t be anything wild in the performance. He had to lip sync, no microphone and chewing gum.

.

She is in Barcelona Spain, he proposes over the phone. The talked and made plans for the future together for another 45 minutes over the phone. It’s funny how he could be open and talk on the phone; sometimes it’s easier than face to face when talking about emotional things. He does make up for the phone proposal later wth a touching proposal and ring!

.

He insists she do an album.

.

Her wedding day the press caught wind of it. He had the limo drive to the church but he rode with the florist so they wouldn’t see him. Kirks Brother officiated the ceromony.

.

He redid the entire house for her, before the wedding, monogramed items all over the home - china, curtains, napkins,….. Nice, but wouldn’t you think a new wife would want to at least help with decorating her home? She said he went out of his way to make it ‘our’ home, but with no input in any decision making as to the decor….IDK, as a woman I would want MY personal touches in the decoration of my home.

This is what I meant earlier about P being caught up in the fantasy/mythology.

He redid the house, which is sweet (including that ugly azzed china) to ensure she had all these new beautiful things...of his choosing to ensure that they were up to his fantasy/mythology standards.

On the show Hollywood Housewives she mentions the he completely picked everything including her wedding dress and that she didn't really like her wedding dress.

Very telling about him ensuring that he generously gave her...everything he wanted for her...instead of generously giving her everything she wanted for herself...or compromising.

[Edited 4/12/17 18:34pm]

Ahhh, I really see your point now, LBrent. Now I don't want 2 be 2 hard on our beloved here because think that this grand scheme 4 married life, with all of the bells and whistles, was an expression of his love 4 Mayte. But as the saying goes, the path 2 hell is paved with good intentions.

.

While have 2 give the man some credit for being involved with the wedding planning --- unlike many grooms --- he definitely went overboard. think that his involvement in planning the wedding was an EXTREME manifestation of the Princely/ ly flair that we all love about the man (e.g., the heels, eyeliner, foo foo), as well as his control-freak tendencies and love 4 Mayte.

.

Now as 4 the wedding dress that HE picked out...that is a total violation. The groom is NOT supposed 2 do that! Did Mayte pick out his suit? ( doubt it.)

.

On a more serious note, think that all of the grandiosity of the wedding, wedding planning, and make-overs of PP and the house made it even harder 4 and Mayte 2 handle the death of Amiir. It wasn't just the death of their son --- it was the death of this grand happily-ever-after scheme 4 married life.

.

think that was great when things were in his control. It's easy 2 be in control when u live in a bubble and/or a fantasy world (which he was able 2 do much of the time), but when circumstances were outside of 's control, he had a hard time coping with the unpleasant realities of life. His difficult coping with the unpleasant realities of life probably grew out of his trust/abandonment/attachment issues, which were REAL issues that he never properly addressed.

[Edited 4/12/17 21:45pm]

tmo1965 said:

LBrent said:

The criteria for a legal anullment didn't exist:

http://family.findlaw.com...s-for.html

80tomato, I think what LBrent is saying is that any annulment that they got was not a legal one, but only good in the eyes of the JW organization. They got a divorce to end their marriage legally.

It would've been useless there, too. I dunno about if P had been Catholic if an illegal annullment would've been useful, but it would've been useless as a JW.

[Edited 4/12/17 22:28pm]

amethyst68 said:

tmo1965 said:

I'll bet that the annulment was so that in the eyes of the JWs, he would be free to marry M2. Mayte said in the SheKnows interview that the annulment was a spiritual annulment. I believe that the JWs take a similar view as Catholics about divorce and remarriage, where you would be committing adultery if got divorced and remarried, so you need to get an annulment to pretend that you were never married.

I read some of Mayte's account of Prince practically badgering her to sign the annulment doc. I really thought bad of him for that.

Do you happen to remember the press release? According to Prince, it was a spiritual thing, although weird and not fully understandable to anyone but himself. I don't think it had anything to do with him wanting to get out of his marriage with Mayte to be with another woman.

Also, did you read the book? She explains the argument they had after the press conference to announce wanting to "transcend" their marriage contract. The document she says he wanted her to sign was not a legal document. It was basically stating that she agreed they would dissolve their current marriage and re-marry with a baptism on their next wedding anniversary.

[Edited 4/12/17 13:36pm]

Here is the SheKnows article where Mayte confirms that it was a spiritual annulment: http://www.sheknows.com/p...-interview.

What I'm saying is that he got her to sign this document to annul the marriage in the eyes of the JW religion, not legally, thereby freeing himself up to marry M2 in the eyes of the JW religion. Maybe if Mayte had agreed to get baptised into the JWs, he would have stayed married to her, but she did not - she stayed true to herself and her beliefs, unlike M2. Since Mayte did not go through with the baptism, since Mayte signed the papers, he was free in the eyes of the JWs to re-marry. I think that P was setting himself up to be able to move on if Mayte did not go along with what he wanted. M2 was very much in the picture at this point. So what Prince stated is true, it was a spiritual thing, except he did not reveal the whole truth.

LBrent said:

tmo1965 said:

80tomato, I think what LBrent is saying is that any annulment that they got was not a legal one, but only good in the eyes of the JW organization. They got a divorce to end their marriage legally.

It would've been useless there, too. I dunno about if P had been Catholic if an illegal annukment would've been useful, but it would've been useless as a JW.

Are you a JW? A religion is free to set whatever rules they want. If they have a system that only they recognize allowing for the dissolution of a marriage within their religion, there is nothing stopping them from practicing that belief. On the other hand, if you have knowledge of how the JWs handle this type of situation, then whatever rules they actually have in place applies.

In the situation that I'm speaking of, where there is an annulment within the religion, the annulment would have no legal basis and thus the couple would have to get a legal divorce to dissolve their marriage in the eyes of the law. So there would need to be 2 sets of dissolutions, a spiritual one within the religion and civil one according to laws of the state.

206Michelle said:

LBrent said:

This is what I meant earlier about P being caught up in the fantasy/mythology.

He redid the house, which is sweet (including that ugly azzed china) to ensure she had all these new beautiful things...of his choosing to ensure that they were up to his fantasy/mythology standards.

On the show Hollywood Housewives she mentions the he completely picked everything including her wedding dress and that she didn't really like her wedding dress.

Very telling about him ensuring that he generously gave her...everything he wanted for her...instead of generously giving her everything she wanted for herself...or compromising.

[Edited 4/12/17 18:34pm]

Ahhh, I really see your point now, LBrent. Now I don't want 2 be 2 hard on our beloved here because think that this grand scheme 4 married life, with all of the bells and whistles, was an expression of his love 4 Mayte. But as the saying goes, the path 2 hell is paved with good intentions.

.

While have 2 give the man some credit for being involved with the wedding planning --- unlike many grooms --- he definitely went overboard. think that his involvement in planning the wedding was an EXTREME manifestation of the Princely/ ly flair that we all love about the man (e.g., the heels, eyeliner, foo foo), as well as his control-freak tendencies and love 4 Mayte.

.

Now as 4 the wedding dress that HE picked out...that is a total violation. The groom is NOT supposed 2 do that! Did Mayte pick out his suit? ( doubt it.)

.

On a more serious note, think that all of the grandiosity of the wedding, wedding planning, and make-overs of PP and the house made it even harder 4 and Mayte 2 handle the death of Amiir. It wasn't just the death of their son --- it was the death of this grand happily-ever-after scheme 4 married life.

.

think that was great when things were in his control. It's easy 2 be in control when u live in a bubble and/or a fantasy world (which he was able 2 do much of the time), but when circumstances were outside of 's control, he had a hard time coping with the unpleasant realities of life. His difficult coping with the unpleasant realities of life probably grew out of his trust/abandonment/attachment issues, which were REAL issues that he never properly addressed.

[Edited 4/12/17 21:45pm]

I know it's hard to see emotion in typed words so I wanna clarify...I'm not making fun of him or ridiculing him or disparaging him about this. I adore this man beyond anything anyone can get from my nonsense on a message forum.

I think he truly loved her and believed in this fantasy/mythology that he had carefully crafted and created around their love. I think it was all very sweet...until it wasn't.

If it hadn't fallen apart, generations would've talked about it fondly. Folks remember Elvis and the tiny mythology around him. Lots of prominant public figures have been remembered this way, too.

Camelot and the Kennedys comes to mind.

Nope, he had his suit of clothes made by his costumers/wardrobe department.

As for the death of the grand happily ever after, I absolutely agree. As someone else said in one of these threads "Greek tragedy: Chanhassan style".

tmo1965 said:

LBrent said:

It would've been useless there, too. I dunno about if P had been Catholic if an illegal annukment would've been useful, but it would've been useless as a JW.

Are you a JW? A religion is free to set whatever rules they want. If they have a system that only they recognize allowing for the dissolution of a marriage within their religion, there is nothing stopping them from practicing that belief. On the other hand, if you have knowledge of how the JWs handle this type of situation, then whatever rules they actually have in place applies.

In the situation that I'm speaking of, where there is an annulment within the religion, the annulment would have no legal basis and thus the couple would have to get a legal divorce to dissolve their marriage in the eyes of the law. So there would need to be 2 sets of dissolutions, a spiritual one within the religion and civil one according to laws of the state.

That may be true, however, in the case of the JW organization, an illegal anullment is worthless. JW's do believe that there's man's law and G*d's law, however in this case they are one in the same.

They only recognize legal divorce where adultery are the grounds, as a "scriptural divorce". While members may divorce for other reasons legally, a "non-scriptural" divorce does not allow the same priviledge within the organization, such as serving on various levels. Even to the point where if a JW man becomes divorced due to his committing adultery, he cannot serve within the organization in any capacity until his exwife remarries because the marraige is still considered valid "in the eyes of G*d." When the wronged wife remarries, the marraige is considered disolved in G*d's eyes. This is based on biblical precedent that would prevent older men from trading in wives on a whim and thereby disrespecting the sanctity of marraige.

If you would like to check for yourself, the JW doctrine is outlined publicly on their official website.

tmo1965 said:

amethyst68 said:

Do you happen to remember the press release? According to Prince, it was a spiritual thing, although weird and not fully understandable to anyone but himself. I don't think it had anything to do with him wanting to get out of his marriage with Mayte to be with another woman.

Also, did you read the book? She explains the argument they had after the press conference to announce wanting to "transcend" their marriage contract. The document she says he wanted her to sign was not a legal document. It was basically stating that she agreed they would dissolve their current marriage and re-marry with a baptism on their next wedding anniversary.

[Edited 4/12/17 13:36pm]

Here is the SheKnows article where Mayte confirms that it was a spiritual annulment: http://www.sheknows.com/p...-interview.

What I'm saying is that he got her to sign this document to annul the marriage in the eyes of the JW religion, not legally, thereby freeing himself up to marry M2 in the eyes of the JW religion. Maybe if Mayte had agreed to get baptised into the JWs, he would have stayed married to her, but she did not - she stayed true to herself and her beliefs, unlike M2. Since Mayte did not go through with the baptism, since Mayte signed the papers, he was free in the eyes of the JWs to re-marry. I think that P was setting himself up to be able to move on if Mayte did not go along with what he wanted. M2 was very much in the picture at this point. So what Prince stated is true, it was a spiritual thing, except he did not reveal the whole truth.

That's not true. An illegal annullment is worthless in the eyes of the JW organizatioon.

He might've thought that would work due his being new to the faith and unfamiliar with the inner workings of the organization, but he was wrong...which is proved by the fact that he ended up divorcing Mayte before marrying again.

tmo1965 said:

LBrent said:

It would've been useless there, too. I dunno about if P had been Catholic if an illegal annukment would've been useful, but it would've been useless as a JW.

Are you a JW? A religion is free to set whatever rules they want. If they have a system that only they recognize allowing for the dissolution of a marriage within their religion, there is nothing stopping them from practicing that belief. On the other hand, if you have knowledge of how the JWs handle this type of situation, then whatever rules they actually have in place applies.

In the situation that I'm speaking of, where there is an annulment within the religion, the annulment would have no legal basis and thus the couple would have to get a legal divorce to dissolve their marriage in the eyes of the law. So there would need to be 2 sets of dissolutions, a spiritual one within the religion and civil one according to laws of the state.

JWs do not require 2 disolutions.

A legal divorce would suffice. He was not a baptized member yet so his divorce would not require having been gotten with adultery as the grounds either. Only after his baptism would that been an added concern.

LBrent said:

206Michelle said:

Ahhh, I really see your point now, LBrent. Now I don't want 2 be 2 hard on our beloved here because think that this grand scheme 4 married life, with all of the bells and whistles, was an expression of his love 4 Mayte. But as the saying goes, the path 2 hell is paved with good intentions.

.

While have 2 give the man some credit for being involved with the wedding planning --- unlike many grooms --- he definitely went overboard. think that his involvement in planning the wedding was an EXTREME manifestation of the Princely/ ly flair that we all love about the man (e.g., the heels, eyeliner, foo foo), as well as his control-freak tendencies and love 4 Mayte.

.

Now as 4 the wedding dress that HE picked out...that is a total violation. The groom is NOT supposed 2 do that! Did Mayte pick out his suit? ( doubt it.)

.

On a more serious note, think that all of the grandiosity of the wedding, wedding planning, and make-overs of PP and the house made it even harder 4 and Mayte 2 handle the death of Amiir. It wasn't just the death of their son --- it was the death of this grand happily-ever-after scheme 4 married life.

.

think that was great when things were in his control. It's easy 2 be in control when u live in a bubble and/or a fantasy world (which he was able 2 do much of the time), but when circumstances were outside of 's control, he had a hard time coping with the unpleasant realities of life. His difficult coping with the unpleasant realities of life probably grew out of his trust/abandonment/attachment issues, which were REAL issues that he never properly addressed.

[Edited 4/12/17 21:45pm]

I know it's hard to see emotion in typed words so I wanna clarify...I'm not making fun of him or ridiculing him or disparaging him about this. I adore this man beyond anything anyone can get from my nonsense on a message forum.

I think he truly loved her and believed in this fantasy/mythology that he had carefully crafted and created around their love. I think it was all very sweet...until it wasn't.

If it hadn't fallen apart, generations would've talked about it fondly. Folks remember Elvis and the tiny mythology around him. Lots of prominant public figures have been remembered this way, too.

Camelot and the Kennedys comes to mind.

Nope, he had his suit of clothes made by his costumers/wardrobe department.

As for the death of the grand happily ever after, I absolutely agree. As someone else said in one of these threads "Greek tragedy: Chanhassan style".

I know that u weren't ridiculing him at all. I think that some of the ly over-the-topness and flair of the grand marriage scheme that she describes him having rubbed off on me while I was writing the first few paragraphs of my previous comment. (I mean, a half million $ in flowers...that's some serious disposable income!)

tmo1965 said:

amethyst68 said:

Do you happen to remember the press release? According to Prince, it was a spiritual thing, although weird and not fully understandable to anyone but himself. I don't think it had anything to do with him wanting to get out of his marriage with Mayte to be with another woman.

Also, did you read the book? She explains the argument they had after the press conference to announce wanting to "transcend" their marriage contract. The document she says he wanted her to sign was not a legal document. It was basically stating that she agreed they would dissolve their current marriage and re-marry with a baptism on their next wedding anniversary.

[Edited 4/12/17 13:36pm]

Here is the SheKnows article where Mayte confirms that it was a spiritual annulment: http://www.sheknows.com/p...-interview.

What I'm saying is that he got her to sign this document to annul the marriage in the eyes of the JW religion, not legally, thereby freeing himself up to marry M2 in the eyes of the JW religion. Maybe if Mayte had agreed to get baptised into the JWs, he would have stayed married to her, but she did not - she stayed true to herself and her beliefs, unlike M2. Since Mayte did not go through with the baptism, since Mayte signed the papers, he was free in the eyes of the JWs to re-marry. I think that P was setting himself up to be able to move on if Mayte did not go along with what he wanted. M2 was very much in the picture at this point. So what Prince stated is true, it was a spiritual thing, except he did not reveal the whole truth.

Loved reading the SheKnows interview. Mayte is a classy lady.

.

As far as the annulment goes, the more and more I read about it, I'm still confused. Even Mayte isn't completely clear about the whole situation. So I have to come to this conclusion: Prince contrived the annulment. Look, the man was incredibly creative. He certainly had the creativity and intelligence to come up with the "annulment." It's classic Prince, really. In response to a conflict, instead of addressing their relationship issues in a mature manner, he came up with the annulment as an avoidance/escape tactic.

[Edited 4/12/17 22:44pm]

206Michelle said:

tmo1965 said:

Here is the SheKnows article where Mayte confirms that it was a spiritual annulment: http://www.sheknows.com/p...-interview.

What I'm saying is that he got her to sign this document to annul the marriage in the eyes of the JW religion, not legally, thereby freeing himself up to marry M2 in the eyes of the JW religion. Maybe if Mayte had agreed to get baptised into the JWs, he would have stayed married to her, but she did not - she stayed true to herself and her beliefs, unlike M2. Since Mayte did not go through with the baptism, since Mayte signed the papers, he was free in the eyes of the JWs to re-marry. I think that P was setting himself up to be able to move on if Mayte did not go along with what he wanted. M2 was very much in the picture at this point. So what Prince stated is true, it was a spiritual thing, except he did not reveal the whole truth.

Loved reading the SheKnows interview. Mayte is a classy lady.

.

As far as the annulment goes, the more and more I read about it, I'm still confused. Even Mayte isn't completely clear about the whole situation. So I have to come to this conclusion: Prince contrived the annulment. Look, the man was incredibly creative. He certainly had the creativity and intelligence to come up with the "annulment." It's classic Prince, really. In response to a conflict, instead of addressing their relationship issues in a mature manner, he came up with the annulment as an avoidance/escape tactic.

[Edited 4/12/17 22:44pm]

Exactly.

And it would've been clever if it had worked, but it didn't...cuz trust me, JWs weren't havin it. So, while he tried to decide whether to stick it out knowing Mayte was never gonna become JW, and deciding on how to proceed with Manuela..he contrived the "spiritual" annulment, but that didn't mean spiritual as in religious. It meant spiritual as in the "cosmic mythology" he had created.

[Edited 4/12/17 23:37pm]

206Michelle said:

Ottensen said:

206Michelle said:

I wrote about this in reply #654 and no one responded, so I guess I'll just raise it again.

.

Listening to the song "Sweet Baby," (my favourite on the album), I'm wondering if anyone else connected the lyrics of this song with some of the drama she was going through with the other members of the band that she discusses on pp. 129-130. Did anyone else pick up on this?

.

Stand tall, (tall)
Sweet baby, (baby)
Don't u fall
U ain't the only one gettin' beat down
It happens 2 us all
The road u chose 2 walk in this life (the road u choose 2 walk in this life)
Is one that leads into the next
So sweet baby, stand tall (sweet baby, stand tall)
Stand tall (sweet baby)
Sweet baby, hold your tears back now
Better days gonna come your way soon, oh yeah sweet baby
Someway, somehow

.

I felt that after reading chapter 6, and also part of chapter 7, this song makes so much more sense.

.

I always kind of figured that he wrote the song for or about Mayte because the video is almost entirely footage of her, but it never totally made sense because in the first verse, it sounds like he's talking about a break-up, and she had never experienced that because P was her first boyfriend.

[Edited 4/12/17 17:43pm]

At the time, I saw the song represented two-fold: initially, I just assumed the song was really in deference to one of his other ladies since it was clear to me that Mayte was his muse, and to some degree, being groomed to an elevated position in the Purple Harem. Also, if I remember correctly, that Sweet Baby video was part of the ongoing plot narrative for that 3 Chains of Gold mini-mini movie, where he frames his "cookie love affair" with the young exotic "Princess" as a one wrought with obstacles and evil forces conspiring to keep them apart, etc., etc. Ironically, as a bit of odd foreshadowing, when I watched this movie with a friend during the Symbol period,I remember the scene of Mayte toting her little sad suitcase up the road looking like a lost puppy, and my friend screaming at the screen "GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN, GIRL, YOU AIN'T READY FOR IT, CHILE!!!" at the screen. Truer words have never been spoken, even if only in jest...

You ain't never lied.

But, I appreciate Mayte finding a positive kernel in her saga...If none of it had happened and she had never had and lost Baby Amiir she feels she would never have been in the eventual position to have Gia enter her life.

DD55 said:

Chapter 8

Hypnotize, the whole being hypnotized and only then the ability to talk truthfully was a bit telling for me.

Couldn’t they be totally honest in day to day events, in real time? That was the only time he would let her talk without interrupting her. He would repeat back to her what she said, without recriminations. Why would that even be an issue? The relationship is new and full of hope, you would think they would open up to each other.

.

The situation with WB is coming to a head but she says even now she only has a general idea and at the time completely confused by it.

.

He wanted to do MTV unplugged but didn’t because he wouldn’t own the master of the recording. (Someone else on another thread once said - in the fight between TAFKAP vs. WB, the fans lost.)

.

She mentions that she wants to be clear, she never actually saw prince use drugs. Some take this as her hinting he might have, or it could be her way of her saying.. 'look people, I was there and never saw it!' If he did, he never let her see, again she is telling us she never saw drug use!

.

He asks her to take papers to PP, she assumes it had to do with the future of his music should something happen to him, but she never actually saw the contents. Since he was on top of business concerns she assumed he must have had a will, but never really knows. Hummm, I wonder why that one small errand made such an impression on her that years later she not only remembers it but also included it in the book?

.

In a letter to her he states that he has grown up, wants to make serious plans for the future and hopes she can ‘grow up a little more with me as well’. She tells her he will need her support in the next few months. It the same letter he tells of of various properties (business stuff really), is the hidden message to her…. GROW UP and step up to help me?

.

Love the description of his playing at the American Music Awards, January 1995. The censors were watching the rehearsal to make sure there wouldn’t be anything wild in the performance. He had to lip sync, no microphone and chewing gum.

.

She is in Barcelona Spain, he proposes over the phone. The talked and made plans for the future together for another 45 minutes over the phone. It’s funny how he could be open and talk on the phone; sometimes it’s easier than face to face when talking about emotional things. He does make up for the phone proposal later wth a touching proposal and ring!

.

He insists she do an album.

.

Her wedding day the press caught wind of it. He had the limo drive to the church but he rode with the florist so they wouldn’t see him. Kirks Brother officiated the ceromony.

.

He redid the entire house for her, before the wedding, monogramed items all over the home - china, curtains, napkins,….. Nice, but wouldn’t you think a new wife would want to at least help with decorating her home? She said he went out of his way to make it ‘our’ home, but with no input in any decision making as to the decor….IDK, as a woman I would want MY personal touches in the decoration of my home.

- The 'hypnosis' thing: I am really really interested in what people think about this...I cannot for the life of me decide if it is supersweet or creepy af. What do people think is going on with it? The way she describes it, it seems clear that at least for him, it was a way of achieving a certain kind of intimacy with her that he didn't seem to have access to in 'real time.' For some reason it seems there was something about it that allowed him to give up his usual need to be completely in control...but somehow, by doing something which could, in itself, be seen as quite controlling. Mayte obviously experienced it as a way of levelling the power and connecting with him and seems to really have treasured it, so I'm not judging or saying she was wrong to feel that way about it...but just wondered about people's thoughts...

- I do find it weird and interesting that he clearly wasn't talking to her about the WB thing...which considering how huge it was, and how much it seemed to get him fucked up in certain ways (the weight he lost / all the stories about how angry he was, going off on long rants at band members etc.)...is illuminating...at least with regard to what we have been saying about the fantasy aspect of the relationship / how he kept anything 'ugly' or negative out of it. I get he might have wanted an oasis, and that seems understandable...but it also speaks to how little practice they had a dealing with challenging life stuff together in partnership, and how maybe P was never really able to do that with anyone...which is pretty heartbreaking...('Oh little purple guy, everyone knows how strong you are, and everyone will still love you if you're weak sometimes' *sniff*)

- Which brings us to...(and I know this is a controversial topic, so sorry if I offend anyone)...I think Mayte's story tells us very very clearly that with hindsight she recognizes that Prince was sometimes using drugs...basically 'I never saw it, he didn't want me to' says, 'I didn't see it, but I realize now it was happening from time to time and he hid it from me.' There are at least two concrete instances, the overdose, and when he asked her to flush the pills, and then, the 'troubling incidents,' him acting 'loopy', having a migraine, sounding sad and distant and foggy, the disappearing Vicodin, the vomit on the carpet... I think it's also clear from what she says that at least during those years, it was, genuinely, occasional. But I think from what she tells us there is good reason to believe that Prince's drug use was also, from time to time, emotional in nature...and that kind of makes sense to me. He had his coping strategies / defense mechanisms, which were powerful, but limited, and given his background, it makes sense to me that sometimes he would find himself in extreme pain, and not know how to handle it, and that that was his method of last resort...

jayseajay said:

- The 'hypnosis' thing: I am really really interested in what people think about this...I cannot for the life of me decide if it is supersweet or creepy af. What do people think is going on with it? The way she describes it, it seems clear that at least for him, it was a way of achieving a certain kind of intimacy with her that he didn't seem to have access to in 'real time.' For some reason it seems there was something about it that allowed him to give up his usual need to be completely in control...but somehow, by doing something which could, in itself, be seen as quite controlling. Mayte obviously experienced it as a way of levelling the power and connecting with him and seems to really have treasured it, so I'm not judging or saying she was wrong to feel that way about it...but just wondered about people's thoughts...

I'm withya...Sweet, but also creepy af. And I think you're riight about him possibly feeling it was the only way to acheive a certain kind of intimacy. I wonder if he practiced this with other partners. I've never heard anyone else speak about it.

As for the "drugs"...This part has me thinking something else.

I think P was having seizures all these years and hiding that from everyone cuz he saw it as a sign of weakness. The biggest clue for me as a nurse was the vomit. I think he was referring to the episodes as migraines and maybe sometimes the seizures were accompanied by headaches afterwards and he took something, a painkiller, for that headache. I think in later years he took painkillers at times for his hip/joint pain, but I don't believe that was to the extent of dependancy.

[Edited 4/13/17 0:17am]

LBrent said:

jayseajay said:

- The 'hypnosis' thing: I am really really interested in what people think about this...I cannot for the life of me decide if it is supersweet or creepy af. What do people think is going on with it? The way she describes it, it seems clear that at least for him, it was a way of achieving a certain kind of intimacy with her that he didn't seem to have access to in 'real time.' For some reason it seems there was something about it that allowed him to give up his usual need to be completely in control...but somehow, by doing something which could, in itself, be seen as quite controlling. Mayte obviously experienced it as a way of levelling the power and connecting with him and seems to really have treasured it, so I'm not judging or saying she was wrong to feel that way about it...but just wondered about people's thoughts...

I'm withya...Sweet, but also creepy af. And I think you're riight about him possibly feeling it was the only way to acheive a certain kind of intimacy. I wonder if he practiced this with other partners. I've never heard anyone else speak about it.

As for the "drugs"...This part has me thinking something else.

I think P was having seizures all these years and hiding that from everyone cuz he saw it as a sign of weakness. The biggest clue for me as a nurse was the vomit. I think he was referring to the episodes as migraines and maybe sometimes the seizures were accompanied by headaches afterwards and he took something, a painkiller, for that headache. I think in later years he took painkillers at times for his hip/joint pain, but I don't believe that was to the extent of dependancy.

[Edited 4/13/17 0:17am]

That's really interesting. Do you think they were residual/minor seizures from the epilepsy? I do wonder if that was all there was to it tho, because it seems often there was also wine involved, which would be odd if it was just a response to seizure...but I think you are onto something there...it explains as you say, the talk of migraines and headaches. Maybe then there are three things going on then, some kind of residual epileptic stuff, later the hip/joint pain, and also an occasional emotional crutch when things got desperate...I thought the timing of the first overdose in relation to the visit from his dad was maybe telling...because it seems way odd, he's newly married, clearly crazy in love, there is a baby he really wants on the way, and he overdoses?

jayseajay said:

LBrent said:

I'm withya...Sweet, but also creepy af. And I think you're riight about him possibly feeling it was the only way to acheive a certain kind of intimacy. I wonder if he practiced this with other partners. I've never heard anyone else speak about it.

As for the "drugs"...This part has me thinking something else.

I think P was having seizures all these years and hiding that from everyone cuz he saw it as a sign of weakness. The biggest clue for me as a nurse was the vomit. I think he was referring to the episodes as migraines and maybe sometimes the seizures were accompanied by headaches afterwards and he took something, a painkiller, for that headache. I think in later years he took painkillers at times for his hip/joint pain, but I don't believe that was to the extent of dependancy.

[Edited 4/13/17 0:17am]

That's really interesting. Do you think they were residual/minor seizures from the epilepsy? I do wonder if that was all there was to it tho, because it seems often there was also wine involved, which would be odd if it was just a response to seizure...but I think you are onto something there...it explains as you say, the talk of migraines and headaches. Maybe then there are three things going on then, some kind of residual epileptic stuff, later the hip/joint pain, and also an occasional emotional crutch when things got desperate...I thought the timing of the first overdose in relation to the visit from his dad was maybe telling...because it seems way odd, he's newly married, clearly crazy in love, there is a baby he really wants on the way, and he overdoses?

I've mentioned this before after 4/21, but no one wanted to hear it.

I hate to tellya, and I'm sure there will be plenty to argue this but...Epilepsy doesn't just "go away".

Seizures may be controlled and there may be periods, sometimes extended periods, where there are no noticably seizures...but keep in mind, not all seizures are the dramatic grand mal thrashing around type you see in movies. More people have petit mal seizures, which can be mild to watch, sometimes simply rapid eye blinking or a blank stare that lasts from a few seconds to a few minutes. Some people go unresponsive, some pass out, some don't. Most don't remember the incident afterwards, some do remember.

Think about times when P was described as staring blankly or acting loopy...common petit mal seizure activity as reported by someone unfamiliar with what they are witnessing. Judith Hill mentions P staring blankly on the plane then going unresponsive.

If you read in the comments at the link below you'll see epileptic patients talking about their seizures, including vomiting.

Here's a link: http://www.epilepsy.com/l...e-seizures

But most epileptics have what is known as an "aura". That is a something that comes over them that tells them ahead that a seizure is coming. It's not unusual to hear a sound or get a certain feeling that warns them. I'm wondering if P recognized his aura and avoided folks when he got it so he could hide his seizures for so long.

LBrent said:

jayseajay said:

That's really interesting. Do you think they were residual/minor seizures from the epilepsy? I do wonder if that was all there was to it tho, because it seems often there was also wine involved, which would be odd if it was just a response to seizure...but I think you are onto something there...it explains as you say, the talk of migraines and headaches. Maybe then there are three things going on then, some kind of residual epileptic stuff, later the hip/joint pain, and also an occasional emotional crutch when things got desperate...I thought the timing of the first overdose in relation to the visit from his dad was maybe telling...because it seems way odd, he's newly married, clearly crazy in love, there is a baby he really wants on the way, and he overdoses?

I've mentioned this before after 4/21, but no one wanted to hear it.

I hate to tellya, and I'm sure there will be plenty to argue this but...Epilepsy doesn't just "go away".

Seizures may be controlled and there may be periods, sometimes extended periods, where there are no noticably seizures...but keep in mind, not all seizures are the dramatic grand mal thrashing around type you see in movies. More people have petit mal seizures, which can be mild to watch, sometimes simply rapid eye blinking or a blank stare that lasts from a few seconds to a few minutes. Some people go unresponsive, some pass out, some don't. Most don't remember the incident afterwards, some do remember.

Think about times when P was described as staring blankly or acting loopy...common petit mal seizure activity as reported by someone unfamiliar with what they are witnessing. Judith Hill mentions P staring blankly on the plane then going unresponsive.

If you read in the comments at the link below you'll see epileptic patients talking about their seizures, including vomiting.

Here's a link: http://www.epilepsy.com/l...e-seizures

But most epileptics have what is known as an "aura". That is a something that comes over them that tells them ahead that a seizure is coming. It's not unusual to hear a sound or get a certain feeling that warns them. I'm wondering if P recognized his aura and avoided folks when he got it so he could hide his seizures for so long.

Thanks for this . From what you're saying, and given the fact that in 2009 he told the story about being cured from it, whether if this was what was happening, he even recognized it as a manifestation of epilepsy. Maybe he thought sometimes something weird happened when he felt off and had a headache afterwards...it wouldn't be out of character for him to ignore/deny to himself there was something more to it that that...and yes, if he recognized it well enough to take himself away before it happened then maybe no-one ever witnessed it...although man, given the amount of time he spent on stage, it's lucky it never happened then... Seriously, how bad do I want that time machine you mentioned, as well as some kind of magic pass to have an hour-long window to punch through that 'Do Not Enter' sign...'Dude, you and this river in Egypt, we really need to talk about that...'

[Edited 4/13/17 2:15am]

jayseajay said:

LBrent said:

I've mentioned this before after 4/21, but no one wanted to hear it.

I hate to tellya, and I'm sure there will be plenty to argue this but...Epilepsy doesn't just "go away".

Seizures may be controlled and there may be periods, sometimes extended periods, where there are no noticably seizures...but keep in mind, not all seizures are the dramatic grand mal thrashing around type you see in movies. More people have petit mal seizures, which can be mild to watch, sometimes simply rapid eye blinking or a blank stare that lasts from a few seconds to a few minutes. Some people go unresponsive, some pass out, some don't. Most don't remember the incident afterwards, some do remember.

Think about times when P was described as staring blankly or acting loopy...common petit mal seizure activity as reported by someone unfamiliar with what they are witnessing. Judith Hill mentions P staring blankly on the plane then going unresponsive.

If you read in the comments at the link below you'll see epileptic patients talking about their seizures, including vomiting.

Here's a link: http://www.epilepsy.com/l...e-seizures

But most epileptics have what is known as an "aura". That is a something that comes over them that tells them ahead that a seizure is coming. It's not unusual to hear a sound or get a certain feeling that warns them. I'm wondering if P recognized his aura and avoided folks when he got it so he could hide his seizures for so long.

Thanks for this . From what you're saying, and given the fact that in 2009 he told the story about being cured from it, whether if this was what was happening, he even recognized it as a manifestation of epilepsy. Maybe he thought sometimes something weird happened when he felt off and had a headache afterwards...it wouldn't be out of character for him to ignore/deny to himself there was something more to it that that...and yes, if he recognized it well enough to take himself away before it happened then maybe no-one ever witnessed it...although man, given the amount of time he spent on stage, it's lucky it never happened then... Seriously, how bad do I want that time machine you mentioned, as well as some kind of magic pass to have an hour-long window to punch through that 'Do Not Enter' sign...'Dude, you and this river in Egypt, we really need to talk about that...'

[Edited 4/13/17 2:15am]

I know right?

Yeah, ya don't "cure" epilepsy exactly, but there are treatments and medications that can control it, some better than others. Dietary changes also help some folks.

But there are some folks who can't even watch certain movies or TV shows or listen to certain music. There's no blanket as to "everyone does this or that when they have epilepsy" or blanket treatment that works for everyone. Some folks have auras that have them hearing whispered voices or windchimes before a seizure, some simply get very drowsy.

That's not to say that's all he might've had going on physically, but I think it definitely bears considering and would explain a few things.

And yes, that river in Egypt...YupperBuddy.

BTW, I also thought of this way back during Grafitti Bridge when I heard the character name, Aura, and saw that he kept hearing her whisper to him, but I went <" Naaaaah, can't be."

Yes, awesome job, Michelle.

Also, it's interesting to note that the time period of P's identity as was 1993 to 2000. 7 years. And we all know the number 7 held significance to him.

Also, she remarks that whenever she would think or stare at him a few seconds, tada...he'd either call or appear.

I remember from an interveiw he gave about what his wife called him, P said if they were always together, she'd never have to "call him".