That's not a part of JW doctrine, but of course it could've been someone mis-advising him on a matter that needed to be handled legally.
Sounds like a P thing, not a JW thing. | |
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Honestly, I think in the moment P meant what he was saying to Mayte about forever, etc but in execution it became harder and harder to stick with it despite him really caring for her. | |
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Ok, don't mean to backtrack either, and I made sure to read all posts before posting this. Did I read something incorrectly? It sounded as if along with the cassettes that had a plane seat, P also would ask Mayte to send her tapes, which "cost her a fortune in Fed Ex mailings"...wth?! Did he actually put that off on a 16/17 year old, have her fund his mailings he wanted? As well as "paying her own rent"...chile, that got me pretty fired up | |
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Yes but it did answer some questions. Happy to see that she put some of the accusations (here on the org) to rest. | |
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Ok, breathe.
That struck me, too..Then I realized that they were functioning as equals.
I know, I know..But still.
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Ok there's no way around it, chapter 11 makes him look like an utterly complete AH. | |
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I feel the same. | |
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LBrent said:
Ok, breathe.That struck me, too..Then I realized that they were functioning as equals I know, I know..But still. Another thought could be that it never crossed her mind to ask him to pay for the shipping charges. Sometimes when friends ask other friends to do things, you just do it without much forethought. Now, if he would have said come join me in Sweden but you have to foot the bill, I'd be giving him the side eye for sure! "Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence......." ~ DESIDERATA ~ Max Ehrmann | |
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LBrent said:
Ok, breathe.
That struck me, too..Then I realized that they were functioning as equals.
I know, I know..But still.
True. That makes sense "they were functioning as equals ". Thanks for bringing me back to earth. | |
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morningsong said: Ok there's no way around it, chapter 11 makes him look like an utterly complete AH. Nothing is redeemable in his behavior at this point unlike the rest of the book I'm reading this and Aretha's song is playing in my head. You're a no good heart breaker You're a liar and you're a cheat And I don't know why I let you do these things to me My friends keep telling me That you ain't no good But oh, they don't know That I'd leave you if I could I guess I'm uptight And I'm stuck like glue Cause I ain't never I ain't never, I ain't never, no, no (loved a man) (The way that I, I love you) Some time ago I thought You had run out of fools But I was so wrong You got one that you'll never lose The way you treat me is a shame How could ya hurt me so bad Baby, you know that I'm the best thing That you ever had Kiss me once again Don'cha never, never say that we we're through Cause I ain't never Never, Never, no, no (loved a man) (The way that I, I love you) I can't sleep at night And I can't eat a bite I guess I'll never be free Since you got, your hooks, in me Whoa, oh, oh Yeah! Yeah! I ain't never loved a man I ain't never loved a man, baby Ain't never had a man hurt me so bad No Well this is what I'm gonna do about it Couple that with what Owen said about Prince using people. These are enough to put the nail in the coffin of anyone wavering between team M vs team P. (Not my personal struggle) She doesn't need to tell everything, this is enough. She did basically say she was told he bonfired the baby's ashes. Personally I don't see how anyone is holding on to the whole soulmate line especially after this chapter. | |
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P did have a say in who was in the video. He probably blamed someone else because HE didn't think she was a good fit. Guess what...he wanted Devin Devasquez to be in the video as well. He asked her but she had a scheduling conflict...
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Good point, precioux. My take is that Prince was ever-evolving. Change was itself a consistent part of his life. And I think that change is an inevitable part of the human experience. Given his means and his profession, especially the fact that he worked for himself, I think it's possible that Prince was able to create more change in his life than the average Joe or Jane. -- There were some other consistent aspects of his life, two of the more "concrete" consistencies being music and Minnesota. -- Based on this book and other sources, he had quite a few personality characteristics, mannerisms, preferences, and beliefs that appeared to be pretty consistent: - a belief in God (although the specifics of this belief changed), - he was a night owl - he dealt with problems with avoidance or escape. In other words, things and people that were painful or that he disliked, he would on or trying to get rid of the evidence. - consistent style preferences: high heels, no jeans, make-up - shyness and an intese desire for privacy -- He also has some continuity in working relationships and friendships. Three people who come to mind are Kirk Johnson, Kim Berry, and columnish Neal Karlen. I'm sure that there are others. Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above | |
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Yeah, you know darn good and well P had the last say...probably didn't want to throw Mayte into the "purple harem"(as Lbrent so eloquently states ) mix. He didn't want to let go of one of the ones in said video, quite yet | |
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I totally agree, DD55. Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above | |
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preciousx, I was wondering the same thing about the annulment. I don't want to discuss the annulment too much because we haven't gotten to that point of the book, but my take from what she says in the book concerning the annulment is that the whole annulment issue is still a bit confusing to her also. Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above | |
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Carmen was still around in Chapter 6. Prince wanted Mayte and Carmen to hang out. , Mayte asked Prince specifically if he was dating Carmen, of course he said, NO she just had a crush on him. , Prince got mad because she had breakfast with a male bandmember. The band didn't want to have anything to do with her after this. They were probably afraid they'd lose their job. , The band was talking and laughing about her, she felt Prince only had her in the band so she wouldn't go to Cairo. . This is also the chapter where Prince fined her for gaining a little weight. . After the tour he made her start paying rent. The thing that gets me, is he always had someone else do his dirty work for him, like the accountants.
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edit..obviously not yet there in the book...posting wise [Edited 4/10/17 12:26pm] | |
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PennyPurple said: Carmen was still around in Chapter 6. Prince wanted Mayte and Carmen to hang out. Mayte asked Prince specifically if he was dating Carmen, of course he said, NO she just had a crush on him. Prince got mad because she had breakfast with a male bandmember. The band didn't want to have anything to do with her after this. They were probably afraid they'd lose their job. The band was talking and laughing about her, she felt Prince only had her in the band so she wouldn't go to Cairo. This is also the chapter where Prince fined her for gaining a little weight. After the tour he made her start paying rent. The thing that gets me, is he always had someone else do his dirty work for him, like the accountants. Yep....I found it interesting in this chapter that she reveals that the girlfriends never got Prince's phone number. He called and you answered. She says she did do some "waiting by the phone". I'm thinking perhaps Carmen mentioned that she didn't have his number, either, during their movie outing because of the fact she brought it up in this exact place. So, that question, discussed here many times, can be discontinued. She didn't have it because none of his "girls" did. "Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence......." ~ DESIDERATA ~ Max Ehrmann | |
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Yes ,he was seeing Lori (Diamond) at the time according to Mayte's book | |
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Chapter 6 Diamonds and Pearls Tour
She comes to realize P’s top girl is always in Minn. When you came to Minn you were the girl on the way in, when you left Minn you were the girl on her way out. She realizes this even as early as Carmen goes off to promote her album.
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Penney already said it but needs to be said again: During the Diamond and Pearls tour she realizes he had her there so she wouldn’t go to Cairo.
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This is the chapter in which he ‘shakes her hand’. He only shakes hands with the person (girl) he is interested in.
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It’s also in this chapter where he tells her he will never leave her. He writes it over and over in a letter to her.
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She acknowledges he used women, as much as they used him. She appears to be saying that she sees him, the real him, but is so in love she proceeds to enter into a relationship anyway. She loves him.
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I don't mean this in a mean way, but she was too young for that Diamonds and Pearls video. That video is elegant, at that time she came off like a kid.... she was a kid 17. But yes I agree, we can be sure he had the last say. | |
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17 is not young in the dance ballet world ... i saw her dance in a video on you tube at radio city in new york in 1993 and she was very elegant | |
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In the ballet world, 17 is actually "mid life". My sister was a professional ballerina and her career began at age 6. So, I'm sorry, from first hand experience, I have to reprctfully disagree that Mayte was too young, or not elegant enough. | |
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Mayte was 17 at the time and older than the ballerina they chose for the video? | |
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Ok sorry no worries, I did not see her back then and I don't know about the world of dance. My comment is just an impression from pictures of her look, not her skill. There is an elegance and sophistication to the Diamonds and Pearls video and I thought her overall look was to young/kid. That is my impression/opinion, happy to agree with you though as I really dont' know.
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I can't wrap my head around why Mayte's parents were content in letting her pretty much pay for the privledge to work for Prince. Because that's basically what she was doing, according to the book for a long time. Seems so strange to invest so much in a child's career and then suddenly stop paying attention. | |
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Chapter Five Timeline/Summary Just to refresh everyone, chapter four ended with Mayte making her first trip to Minnesota to visit Prince during the last week of December 1990. . Chapter five: Early 1991 – Mayte is living in Wiesbaden, Germany. It would be the last year that she spent living in Germany. She is the “go-to belly dancer” in Wiesbaden, Frankfurt, and Mainz and maintains a steady schedule of belly-dancing gigs. She goes to school for part of the day (presumably at General H. H. Arnold High School) and spends the other half of the school day taking ballet classes. She is preparing for the professional certification exam. Mayte aspires to go to Cairo and earn a living there as a belly dancer. . Early 1991 – Mayte recounts going to two proms. For the last prom that she attended, she was only there for about 30 minutes because she had a belly-dancing/flamenco gig that same night. The morning after the last prom and the belly-dancing/flamenco gig, she has the professional certification exam. Mama’s favorite performance of Mayte’s was Mayte’s performance at this belly-dancing/flamenco gig. . Early 1991 – Mayte passes the professional dancing exam. Her classical (ballet) routine was good enough that she she passed the entire exam with just the classical performance. Her parents are thrilled. On the day when she passes the exam, she talks with Prince over the phone during the evening. . Spring 1991 – Mayte makes a short trip to the USA and visits Jan, who is attending the University of Maryland. . May 1991 – At the age of 17, Mayte graduates from high school. . May/June 1991 – Unbeknownst to Mayte, Prince’s legal team created a power of attorney document, making Prince her legal guardian for six months. The document allowed Mayte to travel with and perform with Prince while she was still a minor. Mayte’s father signed the document. . 1991 – Prince flies Mayte to Los Angeles, California, USA, where Prince’s team is making the “Diamonds and Pearls” music video. Rebecca Blake, director of the D&P music video, does not select Mayte to be a part of the D&P video. Prince did not agree with Rebecca Blake, but she made the final call on who was cast for the video. Mayte visits Prince at the house that he is renting in LA. Mayte and Prince discuss their parents's relationships. For the first time, Mayte and Prince discuss Prince’s father. Prince and Mayte go shopping on Melrose Avenue. They ride in a limo and have a security escort while shopping. . 1991 – Mayte is still living in Germany, but makes frequent trips to Paisley Park. She is present for the recording of some of the songs on the album. She watches rehearsals for the Diamonds and Pearls Tour. . Summer of 1991 – After seeing the movie City Slickers, Mayte becomes a vegetarian. . 1991 – Mayte tells Prince about her upcoming trip to Egypt to visit Madame Abla. Prince sends director Randee St. Nicholas and a film crew of about a dozen people with Mayte to Egypt in order to capture footage for what would become the 3 Chains o’ Gold video set. Randee and the crew follow Mayte around as she visits Egypt, contriving some footage. Someone sends the footage back to Prince. . November 1992 – Mayte turns 18. [Note: Given that she was born in 1973, I suspect that 1992 is an error and that she actually turned 18 in November of 1991. . Late 1991/early 1992 – Prince asks Mayte to come and stay for a while in Minnesota. At first, she lives in motels/hotels, then moves into an apartment. There is no specific project on which Mayte and Prince are working, but Prince wanted Mayte in Minnesota to work with him on an on-call basis and for hanging out. After she turns 18, Mayte and Prince’s relationship starts to evolve and become more personal. She has no clear role, he is not paying her, and the best way to describe her place in his world at this time is that she is his muse. After Mayte raises the issue of being paid, Prince has one of his team members put her on his payroll for $300 per month. Mayte has strong feelings for Prince and decides to stick around in Minnesota, even though she could have been making more money belly dancing elsewhere. . January 1992 – Prince sends Mayte to New York for a photo shoot and press training. . 1992 – Mayte’s father visits her in Minnesota. Mayte’s father has discussions with Prince regarding Prince and Mayte’s business relationship. . 1992 – Mayte becomes a part of the NPG. [Note: Mayte said that she joined the NPG in 1994. I am guessing that this is an error, because based on where she states this date in the book, p. 120, the actual date when she joined the NPG is more likely 1992.] The NPG is preparing for the Diamonds and Pearls Tour. Some of the members of the NPG at this time were: drummer Michael Bland, bassist Sonny T. Bland, keyboardist Tommy Barbarella, vocalist and keyboardist Rosie Gaines, dancers Tony, Damon, and Kirk (aka TDK or The Game Boyz), and muses/mascots Lori Elle and Robia LaMorte, aka Diamond and Pearl. Lori and Prince were romantically involved. . At the end of the chapter, Mayte discusses how Prince was always impeccably dressed and groomed. She notes the irony of him being found dead with his clothes on backwards and his socks inside-out.
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206Michelle, your summaries are fantastic. Thank you!!!!!! | |
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Chapter Six Timeline/Summary . Just to refresh everyone, when chapter five ends, Mayte has joined the NPG and is living in Minnesota. At the end of the chapter, Mayte discusses how Prince was always impeccably dressed and groomed, and notes the irony of him being found dead with his clothes on backwards and his socks inside-out. . Chapter six 1992 – Mayte is preparing for the Diamonds and Pearls Tour. She has a minor role on the tour. She did not have much of a social life outside of Prince, and would become lonely if he was out of town or too busy to hang out with her. Carmen Electra is working on an album at Paisley Park and was his girlfriend at the time. Carmen and Mayte hang out one time when Prince is out of town. Mayte notes here that Prince’s top girlfriend or woman was always in Minneapolis. . April 1992 – Mayte performs in her first show with Prince, which took place at the Tokyo Dome in Tokyo, Japan. Mayte, Prince, and the NPG pray before the show. Mayte notes that Prince and company always prayed before every show. Prince and company spend a week in Japan and while there, film the music video for “The Continental.” “The Continental” video also has footage from other sources, including concert footage and footage of Mayte in Cairo. . 1992 – After going to Japan, the Diamonds and Pearls Tour goes to Australia for 20 days. After a two-week break, the tour continues to Europe. Mayte notes that the tour had three groups of people: the crew, the band, and Prince. While Mayte was formally a part of the band, she often travelled with Prince. Mayte’s role in Prince’s world is not clear, but she is close with Prince, and her closeness with him causes some tension due to other members of the band being jealous of her. . 1992 – As the Diamonds and Pearls Tour heads across Europe, the record label where Mayte recorded briefly a few years previously finds out that she is on Prince’s tour and releases her record “Too Dramatic.” . 1992 – One night while the tour is in Europe, Mayte visits Prince in his hotel and then returns to the hotel where she and other members of the band are staying. Some members of the NPG, including Diamond and Pearl, are gossiping about Mayte and her role in Prince’s world. Mayte comes to the realization that Prince is keeping her around so that she does not go to Cairo. She confides in Prince about the gossiping incident. Not long after this incident, Prince writes Mayte a letter to let her know that she is important to him and that other women are jealous of her. . 1992 – Mayte notices changes in her body because she is not dancing as much as she has in the past. Prince criticizes Mayte for her weight and tells his accountant to dock her pay. Prince’s actions make Mayte angry. She starts dancing on the side stage at concerts when she is not performing onstage, and quickly works herself back into shape. . 1992 – When the tour ends, Mayte goes to visit her parents and then returns to Minnesota. Someone from Paisley Park tells Mayte that she has to start paying for the rent of her apartment, even though her salary remains the same. . 1992 – Mayte and Prince are not formally dating, but they are more than friends and he is also her employer. One day at a rehearsal, when Carmen Electra is present, Prince shakes hands with Mayte, indicating that she was more than just his friend, that she is his woman. Mayte also starts having a bodyguard, indicating that she is Prince’s woman. However, at this time, Prince and Mayte do not yet have a sexual relationship. . Around 1994 – During the time when “The Most Beautiful Girl in the World” is popular, after Mayte and Prince have become sexually involved but prior to their engagement, Prince writes her a heartfelt letter. He writes that he has never been interested in talking with a woman about having children, but he wants to discuss having children with her. He ends the letter by writing “ will never leave u” 16 times. Mayte reflects on how she read this letter toward the end of their marriage because he was no longer speaking these kind of passionate, commitment-oriented words to her at that time. She also notes seeing him shake another woman’s hand. She discusses the relationships that he had with various women, and her relationships with a few of these women. She also states her significance as his wife and the mother of his child, and that their relationship was unique.
[Edited 4/10/17 16:37pm] Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above | |
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I feel the same way. I have read various threads speculating that Mayte cheated on and that cheated on Mayte. Given his history of having many women and given how soon he married Manuela after divorcing Mayte, I had a strong suspicion that he may have cheated on Mayte. However, I never believed that she cheated on him. I'm glad she addressed this in the book. . Even after all of the SH** she went through while they were together, she still LOVES the man and is devoted to him. She could have ripped him to shreds in the book, but she does not. She criticizes him, as she should, but more often than not, she writes about him with great love and devotion. . Before I read the book, I liked Mayte and felt that she was good for Prince. I felt that it was unfortunate what they went through with the deaths of their son and the miscarriage, and thought that it was sad that they ended up divorcing. After reading this book, I believe that leaving/divorcing Mayte was one of Prince's biggest mistakes. I believe that she was good for him. Given that she still has enormous love and devotion for him to this day, I believe that had he remained faithful to her, she would have stood by him through just about anything . (I suppose that one could question whether staying with him would have been a good move on her part.) . I wonder if Prince ever regretted leaving Mayte. Knowing what I know about Prince, he seems to have had a hard time admitting when he messed up or was wrong about something. I don't know whether this tendency of his was due to arrogance, insecurity, a combination of both, or something else. [Edited 4/10/17 16:39pm] Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above | |
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