EmmaMcG said:

EmmaMcG said:

laurarichardson said:

You realize that RNB is a hugh part of Prince's music he never ran away from it or dropped how anyone can miss the call and response in RnB and not understand that the roots are from the black church is bizarre. In addition, after watching many performances he did with her she never takes over the stage he was generous with all his bandmates going back to the Revolution and I bet if it was Wendy or Lisa wailing you would not have had a problem. Typical for the org. [Edited 1/29/17 20:00pm]

That's twice you've said "typical of the org" without any explanation of what exactly is typical. But anyway, yes, if I were alive in the 80's and went to see Prince and The Revolution and halfway through the show Prince gave the microphone to Wendy and Lisa and had them "wail", of course I would have a problem. I paid to hear Prince sing. Nobody else. Why would you assume I wouldn't have an issue with Wendy and Lisa like I do with Shelby J? Also, of course I can hear RnB in Prince's music. What's your point? As for the church comment, it was a friend of mine who said that and I'm sure he's quite aware of RnB's roots being in the church, seeing as he's a 32 year old black man who who grew up in New York and was in a gospel choir. But the fact remains, when you go to a concert, you go for the escapism. You don't go to be reminded of church sermons.

That's not necessarily true...Most people go for the artist...and in that case, it's an unwritten agreement between the artist and the audience that if you willingly go to see that artist you are giving them your permission to present thier art in whatever way they see fit...and they are giving you permission as the audience to like it or not to like it.

If an audience finds the artistic presentation objectionable it's up to the audience to decide if they'll stay and/or return for future performances, it's not up to the artist to change thier presentation unless they choose to do so. It's up to the audience to either go and attempt to appreciate the art or, failing that, not go.

[Edited 1/30/17 3:15am]

rogifan said:

EmmaMcG said:

You expect it from the people in the crowd. They're excited to see the act they paid to see perform. But you don't expect it from that act's friend who is on stage for some inexplicable reason seemingly doing her best to disprove the notion that Prince puts on one of the best live shows in the business.

There's obviously a reason Shelby was on stage as she was an NPG band member. Vocals are instruments too.

rogifan said:

LBrent said:

laurarichardson said:

EmmaMcG said:

Nope. Not a big RnB fan, to be honest. I do dabble but I was raised on 80's hair metal and p funk. I did see Michael Jackson perform live once though. I was very young at the time so I don't remember much about it but, though I may be wrong, I don't remember any of his friends joining him on stage to bellow such nonsense as "put your hands up" and her other phrases. But you're right, I haven't been to many RnB shows. If that kind of thing is a staple of RnB concerts, I doubt I'll be going to any any time soon. Though, I did talk about Shelby J to a friend of mine who would have more RnB experience than me, and even he didn't enjoy her parts of the Prince concerts he went to. He said it reminded him of church, which is not what you want at a concert. Don't get me wrong, she comes across as real nice in interviews and I'm sure she's a nice person and all but when I pay over a grand to see Prince in concert,then I expect to see and hear Prince, not his friends. Both Prince shows I attended were great, Prince was great, the band was great, even Shelby didn't annoy me until she seemed to be taking over the show. She played too big a part for what little she did.

You realize that RNB is a hugh part of Prince's music he never ran away from it or dropped how anyone can miss the call and response in RnB and not understand that the roots are from the black church is bizarre. In addition, after watching many performances he did with her she never takes over the stage he was generous with all his bandmates going back to the Revolution and I bet if it was Wendy or Lisa wailing you would not have had a problem. Typical for the org. [Edited 1/29/17 20:00pm]

Prince:Ouwwawwaa!!

Audience: Ouwwawwaa!!

Prince always had call & response. But so do a lot of artists, no matter the musical genre or the ethnicity of the artists. Call & Response, audience feedback and participation is not exclusive.
But when Prince did it in the earlier years, it was nothing like what Shelby did in the 2000s.
I do remember a lot of Rappers themselves of someone else on the stage shouting to the audience to 'PUT YOUR HANDS UP' etc etc and more I've seen/heard more recent shows where they are telling the audience to yell and clap and make some noooiiiiiseee, before any performance was even done.
.
And I seriously doubt that we would like it if Wendy & Lisa, Brown Mark or Cat did it. Because the beauty of that period was how people echoed Prince in a more shadowed way.
I also did not like hearing Gregory yelling at time on the Parade tour or at some rehearsals/recordings you can hear him yelling. I thought it was a distraction.

EmmaMcG said:

LBrent said:

That's not necessarily true...Most people go for the artist...and in that case, it's an unwritten agreement between the artist and the audience that if you willingly go to see that artist you are giving them your permission to present thier art in whatever way they see fit...and they are giving you permission as the audience to like it or not to like it.

If an audience finds the artistic presentation objectionable it's up to the audience to decide if they'll stay and/or return for future performances, it's not up to the artist to change thier presentation unless they choose to do so. It's up to the audience to either go and attempt to appreciate the art or, failing that, not go.

[Edited 1/30/17 3:15am]

Yeah but be honest, how many people go to a Prince concert to hear gospel singing and such. It's true that you're paying to see the artist perform and they are free to perform however they see fit but there are certain expectations you have as a customer going in. Not to say that that kind of music doesn't have it's place, but I personally wouldn't want to be reminded of church and Jesus and that type of thing at a concert I attended for the purposes of having a good time.

I understand. So you and others who feel that way might be better served by choosing to forego future disappointment by opting not to attend further performances...if he were not...if 4/21 hadn't happened...

In any event, as much as I didn't particularly care for the vocals of the singers after RG and even 3rdEyeGirl were sorta meh to me, I went to see P and that's all I cared about over all the years...As long as P was there I was happy.

LBrent said:

EmmaMcG said:

LBrent said:

I understand. So you and others who feel that way might be better served by choosing to forego future disappointment by opting not to attend further performances...if he were not...if 4/21 hadn't happened...

In any event, as much as I didn't particularly care for the vocals of the singers after RG and even 3rdEyeGirl were sorta meh to me, I went to see P and that's all I cared about over all the years...As long as P was there I was happy.

If he were still alive, I'd still go to his concerts. Even if Shelby was co-headlining! That's how great those shows I attended were. They played a huge part in me becoming a Prince fan to begin with. All I'm saying is that I'd PREFER her not to play such a big role in the show. But it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I'm not crazy enough that I'd allow a singer I don't like stop me from seeing one I do like.

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince:Ouwwawwaa!!

Audience: Ouwwawwaa!!

Prince always had call & response. But so do a lot of artists, no matter the musical genre or the ethnicity of the artists. Call & Response, audience feedback and participation is not exclusive.
But when Prince did it in the earlier years, it was nothing like what Shelby did in the 2000s.
I do remember a lot of Rappers themselves of someone else on the stage shouting to the audience to 'PUT YOUR HANDS UP' etc etc and more I've seen/heard more recent shows where they are telling the audience to yell and clap and make some noooiiiiiseee, before any performance was even done.
.
And I seriously doubt that we would like it if Wendy & Lisa, Brown Mark or Cat did it. Because the beauty of that period was how people echoed Prince in a more shadowed way.
I also did not like hearing Gregory yelling at time on the Parade tour or at some rehearsals/recordings you can hear him yelling. I thought it was a distraction.

Sounds like their are certain ethnic groups you do not care to hear from.

Nah, sounds more a cultural prefence than an ethnic thing.

C'mon let's go over to the other thread where our fellow Orger, rap, found a place with googobs of unseen P pics from the Lovesexy era...and lemoncrush helped me with pics of P's nekkid lil toes on stage in platform flippity flops!!! Sooooooo cute.

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince:Ouwwawwaa!!

Audience: Ouwwawwaa!!

Prince always had call & response. But so do a lot of artists, no matter the musical genre or the ethnicity of the artists. Call & Response, audience feedback and participation is not exclusive.
But when Prince did it in the earlier years, it was nothing like what Shelby did in the 2000s.
I do remember a lot of Rappers themselves of someone else on the stage shouting to the audience to 'PUT YOUR HANDS UP' etc etc and more I've seen/heard more recent shows where they are telling the audience to yell and clap and make some noooiiiiiseee, before any performance was even done.
.
And I seriously doubt that we would like it if Wendy & Lisa, Brown Mark or Cat did it. Because the beauty of that period was how people echoed Prince in a more shadowed way.
I also did not like hearing Gregory yelling at time on the Parade tour or at some rehearsals/recordings you can hear him yelling. I thought it was a distraction.

Sounds like their are certain ethnic groups you do not care to hear from.

Sounds like U R looking 4 more conspiracy trouble

I was at the rap concerts Fresh Fest in the 80s Run DMC LL Cool J Fat Boys
I was there when UTFO and Roxann Shante & the Real Roxann were on 45s

I was at Roots concerts... but I also saw other elements of Rap genre in the 90s and 2000s yelling PUT YO HANDS UP, MAKE SOME NOOOOOIIISEE before anyone was even rapping...

Are you telling me you haven't?

But again, If Wendy Jill Lisa Brown Mark Cat did this, I would still not like it

Just like I didn't like hearing Gregory do it

That being said, I don't dislike Shelby(the person/singer) I just don't like certain stage interactions.
I also wished Prince would have had her sing/lead certain songs from his more current catalogue, instead of singing covers... but that is more about Prince.

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Sounds like their are certain ethnic groups you do not care to hear from.

Sounds like U R looking 4 more conspiracy trouble

I was at the rap concerts Fresh Fest in the 80s Run DMC LL Cool J Fat Boys
I was there when UTFO and Roxann Shante & the Real Roxann were on 45s

I was at Roots concerts... but I also saw other elements of Rap genre in the 90s and 2000s yelling PUT YO HANDS UP, MAKE SOME NOOOOOIIISEE before anyone was even rapping...

Are you telling me you haven't?

But again, If Wendy Jill Lisa Brown Mark Cat did this, I would still not like it

Just like I didn't like hearing Gregory do it

That being said, I don't dislike Shelby(the person/singer) I just don't like certain stage interactions.
I also wished Prince would have had her sing/lead certain songs from his more current catalogue, instead of singing covers... but that is more about Prince.

The only one looking for a conspiracy is you since you are the one constantly bringing it up. P always took us to church and millions did not have a problem with it.

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Sounds like U R looking 4 more conspiracy trouble

I was at the rap concerts Fresh Fest in the 80s Run DMC LL Cool J Fat Boys
I was there when UTFO and Roxann Shante & the Real Roxann were on 45s

I was at Roots concerts... but I also saw other elements of Rap genre in the 90s and 2000s yelling PUT YO HANDS UP, MAKE SOME NOOOOOIIISEE before anyone was even rapping...

Are you telling me you haven't?

But again, If Wendy Jill Lisa Brown Mark Cat did this, I would still not like it

Just like I didn't like hearing Gregory do it

That being said, I don't dislike Shelby(the person/singer) I just don't like certain stage interactions.
I also wished Prince would have had her sing/lead certain songs from his more current catalogue, instead of singing covers... but that is more about Prince.

The only one looking for a conspiracy is you since you are the one constantly bringing it up. P always took us to church and millions did not have a problem with it.

lol Laurarichardson, what in heaven earth or hell are you talking about lol

We're talking about 'PutchoHandsUp'

I love Shelby J, as did Prince. She did just what P wanted her to do onstage. Remember, he was always calling the shots.

FlyOnTheWall said:

EmmaMcG said:

rogifan said:

There's obviously a reason Shelby was on stage as she was an NPG band member. Vocals are instruments too.

That's correct. But I never said they weren't, nor did I say she couldn't sing. I just didn't like her input in Prince's concerts because I felt the show would have been better without her. The reason she was there in the first place can be debated til the cows come home (funny sentence, that. How far could cows conceivably get from home) but the fact is, Prince liked her to be part of the show. Maybe she provided the opportunity for him to take a break or whatever, who knows. All I know is that for me, and seemingly others on the org, she played too big a part in his shows.

rogifan said:

EmmaMcG said:

That's correct. But I never said they weren't, nor did I say she couldn't sing. I just didn't like her input in Prince's concerts because I felt the show would have been better without her. The reason she was there in the first place can be debated til the cows come home (funny sentence, that. How far could cows conceivably get from home) but the fact is, Prince liked her to be part of the show. Maybe she provided the opportunity for him to take a break or whatever, who knows. All I know is that for me, and seemingly others on the org, she played too big a part in his shows.

I guess I don't remember as much when she first started working with Prince but I've watched many concerts with Shelby (and Liv and Elisa) and the show is still all about Prince. If we want to debate why Shelby was on stage we could do the same with the Twins, Andy Allo etc.

Oh man where we debating about the Twinz and Andy Allo

Oh boy do I remember the threads about Andy lol
You know those thread people create like "Is Andy the Next Wendy" (sorta like the 20Ten is just as good or better than SOTT)

FlyOnTheWall said:

I love Shelby J, as did Prince. She did just what P wanted her to do onstage. Remember, he was always calling the shots.

eh, not really. When it came down to some things.
He's always given the musicians/singers/dancers the floor to do things. Of course people cannot just do whatever they feel in the moment or it can throw the show off.
Prince wanted Sheila E to do some of her 3rd album songs on the SOTT tour.

If Shelby did not want to cover songs on the tours she was on she didn't have to.

rogifan said:

EmmaMcG said:

rogifan said:

I guess I don't remember as much when she first started working with Prince but I've watched many concerts with Shelby (and Liv and Elisa) and the show is still all about Prince. If we want to debate why Shelby was on stage we could do the same with the Twins, Andy Allo etc.

It's no mystery as to why Andy Allo and the Twins were there Maybe that's why Shelby was there too? Who knows? My theory would be that Prince liked her personality and voice so much that perhaps he gave her more stage time than what was necessary. One of the shows I went to had Prince leave the stage entirely while Shelby sang two songs. Had she opened the show, I wouldn't have had any issue with it. But halfway through the show? I felt it broke the momentum that had been built up to that point. It was still one of the best concerts I've ever been to, but it could have done without both Shelby's solo part and without her interjections during Let's Work, Controversy etc.

Do you care to elaborate? Just what are you implying? The Twins and Andy Allo are not comparable. The Twins are dancers. Andy is a singer/songwriter/guitarist.

OldFriends4Sale said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

I love Shelby J, as did Prince. She did just what P wanted her to do onstage. Remember, he was always calling the shots.

eh, not really. When it came down to some things.
He's always given the musicians/singers/dancers the floor to do things. Of course people cannot just do whatever they feel in the moment or it can throw the show off.
Prince wanted Sheila E to do some of her 3rd album songs on the SOTT tour.

If Shelby did not want to cover songs on the tours she was on she didn't have to.

You said it all in a nutshell: Of course people cannot just do whatever they feel in a Prince show. Make no mistake: Prince was always running the show. They rehearsed for hours at a time. His shows were like a well-oiled machine.

FlyOnTheWall said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

eh, not really. When it came down to some things.
He's always given the musicians/singers/dancers the floor to do things. Of course people cannot just do whatever they feel in the moment or it can throw the show off.
Prince wanted Sheila E to do some of her 3rd album songs on the SOTT tour.

If Shelby did not want to cover songs on the tours she was on she didn't have to.

You said it all in a nutshell: Of course people cannot just do whatever they feel in a Prince show. Make no mistake: Prince was always running the show. They rehearsed for hours at a time. His shows were like a well-oiled machine.

that would be any show. people rehearse to be able to excecute and production.

EmmaMcG said:

rogifan said:

I guess I don't remember as much when she first started working with Prince but I've watched many concerts with Shelby (and Liv and Elisa) and the show is still all about Prince. If we want to debate why Shelby was on stage we could do the same with the Twins, Andy Allo etc.

It's no mystery as to why Andy Allo and the Twins were there

Maybe that's why Shelby was there too? Who knows? My theory would be that Prince liked her personality and voice so much that perhaps he gave her more stage time than what was necessary. One of the shows I went to had Prince leave the stage entirely while Shelby sang two songs. Had she opened the show, I wouldn't have had any issue with it. But halfway through the show? I felt it broke the momentum that had been built up to that point. It was still one of the best concerts I've ever been to, but it could have done without both Shelby's solo part and without her interjections during Let's Work, Controversy etc.

FlyOnTheWall said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

rogifan said:

EmmaMcG said:

It's no mystery as to why Andy Allo and the Twins were there

Maybe that's why Shelby was there too? Who knows? My theory would be that Prince liked her personality and voice so much that perhaps he gave her more stage time than what was necessary. One of the shows I went to had Prince leave the stage entirely while Shelby sang two songs. Had she opened the show, I wouldn't have had any issue with it. But halfway through the show? I felt it broke the momentum that had been built up to that point. It was still one of the best concerts I've ever been to, but it could have done without both Shelby's solo part and without her interjections during Let's Work, Controversy etc.

Prince has said there were times he took a break as his guitars were getting re-tuned. Also it's possible he took a break to rest his voice for a bit or change clothes/shoes. Or maybe just to go to the bathroom. Who knows. During Musicology there was an instrumental interlude before Prince's solo acoustic set. Anyway my point was Shelby wasn't just a friend he put up on stage for no reason. Same with Liv and Elise. You don't have to like the fact he had backup singers on stage with him but they were considered members of NPG.
[Edited 1/31/17 7:43am]

EmmaMcG said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

Do you care to elaborate? Just what are you implying? The Twins and Andy Allo are not comparable. The Twins are dancers. Andy is a singer/songwriter/guitarist.

If I really need to elaborate, I will. HE WAS BANGING THEM ALL!!!

He certainly gave that appearance. BTW: I love your avatar. What is it exactly?

OldFriends4Sale said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

You said it all in a nutshell: Of course people cannot just do whatever they feel in a Prince show. Make no mistake: Prince was always running the show. They rehearsed for hours at a time. His shows were like a well-oiled machine.

that would be any show. people rehearse to be able to excecute and production.

Not all shows are as tightly orchestrated and rehearsed as P's. Not by a long shot.