By the way, Alexander O´Neal´s A Broken Heart Can Mend (by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis) sounds a lot like 17 Days...not the whole song but the last 30 seconds or so.

Listen to it and you´ll see what I mean.

MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

D-Train

This one kinda sounds like D-Train

Jam & Lewis also did Ice T's 1st single

I had the original pressing of that Ice-T single and while my copy credited Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis as the producers, there was no mention of The Time....unlike that vinyl that is in your link.

Interesting.

I love that story about when Prince first heard the 1983 Whispers song "Keep On Loving Me".He (wrongly) assumed that it was a Jam and Lewis production and he confronted them about it,accusing them of giving away the Minneapolis sound to others

.

[Edited 11/21/16 14:06pm]

SoulAlive said:

I love that story about when Prince first heard the 1983 Whispers song "Keep On Loving Me".He (wrongly) assumed that it was a Jam and Lewis production and he confronted them about it,accusing them of giving away the Minneapolis sound to others

.

[Edited 11/21/16 14:06pm]

I wonder how he felt when he heard this blatant rip off of DMSR

KoolEaze said:

in my opinion Jam & Lewis simply expanded the "basic recipe" of the MPLS sound. they "smoothed it out", made it more commercial & adapted it to each of the artists they worked with (notably Janet Jackson & Human League).

.

I've always said & believed that Prince effectively put The Time out of his league - permanently - when he fired Jam & Lewis. The Time was never the same, despite the commercial success of Ice Cream Castle (indeed, the 2nd version of that group was basically done) by the time that album came out in '84.

.

Jam & Lewis are obviously (& have always been) top-shelf musicians in their own right. Prince no doubt gave them their start, but they probably would have eventually caught on & done (about as) well as they eventually did. Jam & Lewis can't be blamed (either) for "commercializing" the MPLS sound. Prince paid them very little for the period they were in The Time; they probably said to themselves something like "well, this (being in The Time) is the LAST time we will work this hard & not be properly compensated for it".

.

Clearly, in terms of making creative & innovative music.. Prince by himself would be superior to J&L; I bet, however, that they lapped Prince - several several times - in terms of how much money (&/or record sales) they earned producing everyone they did over all these years. I bet that amount isn't even close.

I totally agree.Prince made a huge mistake by firing Jam and Lewis.I have always said that he should have encouraged them to write and produce.That talent could have been utilized at Paisley Park Records! Instead of pushing them away,he could have offered them a writing and production deal and used their songs on his many protege albums.Just think: a major hit like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" could have been given to Jill Jones....or a song like "Human" could have been given to The Family.Paisley Park Records would have been the Motown of the 80s.

mltijchr said:

I've always said & believed that Prince effectively put The Time out of his league - permanently - when he fired Jam & Lewis. The Time was never the same, despite the commercial success of Ice Cream Castle (indeed, the 2nd version of that group was basically done) by the time that album came out in '84.

SoulAlive said:

Just think: a major hit like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" could have been given to Jill Jones....or a song like "Human" could have been given to The Family.

The difference is Human League was already a well known group and would already get the Top 40 airplay that The Family wouldn't. The Family wouldn't have crossed over to Top 40. Also the Robert Palmer version of I Didn't Mean To Turn You On is more known than the Cherrelle version. The original is more known to the R&B audience, but Robert's was the pop hit.

Iamtheorg said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Iamtheorg said: It does. But they still sound nothing alike. Because everything else around it is different.

k

Innocent sounds more like "Get it up", imo.

SoulAlive said:

I totally agree.Prince made a huge mistake by firing Jam and Lewis.I have always said that he should have encouraged them to write and produce.That talent could have been utilized at Paisley Park Records! Instead of pushing them away,he could have offered them a writing and production deal and used their songs on his many protege albums.Just think: a major hit like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" could have been given to Jill Jones....or a song like "Human" could have been given to The Family.Paisley Park Records would have been the Motown of the 80s.

mltijchr said:

I've always said & believed that Prince effectively put The Time out of his league - permanently - when he fired Jam & Lewis. The Time was never the same, despite the commercial success of Ice Cream Castle (indeed, the 2nd version of that group was basically done) by the time that album came out in '84.

I am the 1 who TOTALLY agrees with you, SoulAlive. had Prince set aside his ego & insecurity then, all of the following very most likely would have happened. minimally:

.

1. the ORIGINAL line-up of The Time would have stayed in tact - thus forcing Prince to stay at the top of his A-game musically & showmanship-wise

.

2. Paisley Park - as an actual, functioning record label - would have thrived tremendously & still be in existence 30-some years after it started (about 1985, if I recall correctly..) PP would have taken the "Motown concept" to a higher, multi-media empire level. oh well..

.

like you said - Jill Jones could have as well done "turn you on", the Family (with a drummer besides Jellybean, who would have still be "full-time" with the original Time lineup) could have done "human"..

.

the awesome possibilities - all of them - would have been endless.

too bad.

mltijchr said:

I disagree.

I believe they ALL had egos and would have eventually broken up with or without Prince.

As far as Paisley Park as a functioning recording studio. Maybe, obviously he could have run it better, but Prince never functioned as a Motown, that was never his thing. He did things his own way for good or for bad. Either way, the Time, Jam/Lewis had the power accomplish all of these scenarios without Prince's involvement and they chose not to. Jam and Lewis did their own thing, and Morris and the Band became a nostalgic act.

[Edited 11/23/16 7:54am]

SoulAlive said:

I totally agree.Prince made a huge mistake by firing Jam and Lewis.I have always said that he should have encouraged them to write and produce.That talent could have been utilized at Paisley Park Records! Instead of pushing them away,he could have offered them a writing and production deal and used their songs on his many protege albums.Just think: a major hit like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" could have been given to Jill Jones....or a song like "Human" could have been given to The Family.Paisley Park Records would have been the Motown of the 80s.

mltijchr said:

I've always said & believed that Prince effectively put The Time out of his league - permanently - when he fired Jam & Lewis. The Time was never the same, despite the commercial success of Ice Cream Castle (indeed, the 2nd version of that group was basically done) by the time that album came out in '84.

I can see the Family singing Human Nature, but Jill Jones on Didnt Mean to Turn You On? Nah

wonder505 said:

SoulAlive said:

I totally agree.Prince made a huge mistake by firing Jam and Lewis.I have always said that he should have encouraged them to write and produce.That talent could have been utilized at Paisley Park Records! Instead of pushing them away,he could have offered them a writing and production deal and used their songs on his many protege albums.Just think: a major hit like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" could have been given to Jill Jones....or a song like "Human" could have been given to The Family.Paisley Park Records would have been the Motown of the 80s.

I can see the Family singing Human, but Jill Jones on Didnt Mean to Turn You On? Nah

Why not? that would have been a perfect 'debut' single for her

Now while Jam & Lewis undoubtedly deserve their own place in the sun as master songwriters and producers there is no doubt that they were substantially influenced by Prince. Janet Jackson's "Control" could almost claim the title of the best female MPLS sounding album ever! Prince's influence is all over that masterpiece and makes it the fun listen it is.

Prince said Jam & Lewis weren't into the MPLS sound. So...there's that.

I really liked the Mo Money Soundtrack (1992) they produced and their track The New Style