I strongly agree, for the most part.

Vanity 6

The Time

Apollonia 6

Jill Jones

The Family

Madhouse

Sheila E. (the first 2 album)

Martika

Carmen Electra

Ingrid Chavez

All these are essential to Prince canon/discography, for different reasons.

The other P contributions are less important, with the obvious exception of "Manic Monday" (The Bangles), "With This Tear" (Celine Dion) and "Open Book" (Jevetta Steel), simply 3 of the best 5 tunes he ever gave to a related artist.

Talkin' strictly of sequence, "The Family" album is an obvious prelude to "Parade" and "Jill Jones" is the bridge between "Parade" and the SOTT/TBA/Lovesexy trilogy.

IMO, albums like The Family, What Time Is It, The Glamorous Life and even Come 2 My House are as essential to any complete Prince collection as any of his solo albums (in some cases more so. Who would argue against "The Family" album being a more important record for Prince artistically than HNR Phase 1 and 2?).

Agree/disagree?

I think they're separate entities even if Prince just used them as a backup band with vocal cords. Otherwise where do you draw the line? Every single that blew up under someone else? I feel like if they're important artistically, they're strong enough projects and artists to stand alone in their own right. You could argue Janelle Monae was a Prince protegee, but she's distinct enough artistically that I don't see Electric Lady as an extension of the Prince oeuvre. I've been a Janelle Monae fan for a couple of years and Prince has nothing to do with it. Judith Hill seems real. Mononeon is distinct to me. If you actually buy a Sheila E record, it's because of her and not Prince's fingerprints.

Disagree. The protege albums are never as good, with a few expections it appears that me that proteges mostly got whatever Prince tossed out. None of them are as strong as his best albums.

MattyJam said:

even Come 2 My House

This one I'm not sure of.

Yes, it was part of the trilogy "NPS-C2MH-GSC2000" and there are many P tunes inside, but the whole era sounds a little unfocused and projected as a commercial move to give new success to Chaka and Larry Graham.

thisisreece said:

Disagree. The protege albums are never as good, with a few expections it appears that me that proteges mostly got whatever Prince tossed out. None of them are as strong as his best albums.

I'm strongly convinced that if "The Family" would surface in pristine quality with original P vocals, it would be regarded as a P classic.

The same would apply to "Jill Jones".

Yes they are definitely part of his discography...his dream factory

Prince used alot of the earlier Proteges...upto SOTT, to try out new styles, concepts which he then incorporated into his solo releases

Not EVERY single one of them. Remember, the Paisley Park imprint ran deep with Dale Bozzio, The 3 O'Clock, Good Question, TC Ellis...those aren't essential albums. But the Time, Vanity/Apollonia 6, Sheila E., Family, Jill Jones, and Madhouse albums absolutely are. I guess they just depend on his level of involvement (and it's probably no coincidence that the most essential are the ones that had the most involvement from Prince).

thisisreece said:

BoraBora said:

MattyJam said:

BoraBora said:

This one I'm not sure of.

Yes, it was part of the trilogy "NPS-C2MH-GSC2000" and there are many P tunes inside, but the whole era sounds a little unfocused and projected as a commercial move to give new success to Chaka and Larry Graham.

I love Come 2 My House. It has a few clunkers, but 3/4 of the album is absolute gold.

I have to say it's a lot of time I didn't listen to it, but I remember it as a little boring and "by numbers" release.

Anyway I was talkin' of an historic context, not of the musical value.

In that way I listed the "Carmen Electra" album that I find weak but it is essential to P musical journey because it is a minor chapter of the D&P/Symbol/Goldnigga saga.

100% agree.

The 80s Proteges are extremely important

stuff from the early 90s are very interesting in connection to what Prince was doing.

Especially the 1990 Graffiti Bridge years (the Uptown Dames anyone?)

but the 80s protege music is a must. It's almost like tell a similar story from a different point of view, of a different happing Uptown where the Time are gigoloes(ie Under the Cherry Moon) or guys thinking trying to live the Glamorous Life. Vanity 6 are like High society women in Erotic City. The Family feels like the images in the album (home life of a group of friends who are showing more the romantic side of Erotic City) Madhouse a more ganstar/hobo element of Uptown

essential:
the Time, What Time Is It? Ice Cream Castles
Vanity 6 (Apollonia 6 not so much the full album)

the Glamorous Life, Romance 1600, Sheila E

the Family

Mazarati

Madhouse 8 Madhouse 16

BoraBora said:

I strongly agree, for the most part.

Vanity 6

The Time

Apollonia 6

Jill Jones

The Family

Madhouse

Sheila E. (the first 2 album)

Martika

Carmen Electra

Ingrid Chavez

All these are essential to Prince canon/discography, for different reasons.

The other P contributions are less important, with the obvious exception of "Manic Monday" (The Bangles), "With This Tear" (Celine Dion) and "Open Book" (Jevetta Steel), simply 3 of the best 5 tunes he ever gave to a related artist.

I'm going to have to fight you on some of those.

Vanity 6/Appolonia 6 are historical curiousities. "Sex Shooter" is not an essential part of any record collection; it's not even catchy. Carmen Electra is "that time Prince did A/R with his dick for a really hot mannequin with no musical talent whatsoever." The Time were real musicians who I think suffered musically from Prince's heavy hand, but I can live without "Jungle Love."

We all love Prince, but he wasn't always the best judge of his own work and not everything he touched came away with genius. Some of this stuff is "maybe when I've gotten all of his albums and I've run out of bootlegs and Vault".

MattyJam said:

thisisreece said:

Disagree. The protege albums are never as good, with a few expections it appears that me that proteges mostly got whatever Prince tossed out. None of them are as strong as his best albums.

The Family is as good as any of Prince's 80s albums. Mutiny, Nothing Compares, Screams of Passion, High Fashion, Desire.... These songs are as good as any songs on his 80s albums.

Yeah that!

And if you cull the 6 project, you get a pretty tight MPLS funk album:

Side 1 Vanity - Drive Me Wild, Nasty Girl, If a girl answers

Side 2 Appollonia - Blue Limousine, Sex Shooter, Million Miles

PurpleBabied said:

'Child of the Sun' has its moments. Definitely essential, even if it's not a perfect record.

"The protege albums are never as good, with a few exceptions".........I think I may have to agree with this. The only protege albums I revisit are the first two Time albums and recently Madhouse. For me that material still holds up.

PurpleBabied said:

I'm going to have to fight you on some of those.

Vanity 6/Appolonia 6 are historical curiousities. "Sex Shooter" is not an essential part of any record collection; it's not even catchy. Carmen Electra is "that time Prince did A/R with his dick for a really hot mannequin with no musical talent whatsoever." The Time were real musicians who I think suffered musically from Prince's heavy hand, but I can live without "Jungle Love."

We all love Prince, but he wasn't always the best judge of his own work and not everything he touched came away with genius. Some of this stuff is "maybe when I've gotten all of his albums and I've run out of bootlegs and Vault".

I see your point, to some extent.

Anyway the historical importance of V6, A6 and The Time is more prominent than their musical quality. So they deserves to be included in a Prince selected discography.

If we have to look only to musical quality, there are also some proper Prince album tracks that didn't deserve to be included.

CAL3 said:

'Child of the Sun' has its moments. Definitely essential, even if it's not a perfect record.

Here I agree.

I forgot it.

MattyJam said:

True, but then some of it (like The Family and What Time Is It?) is far more worthy of fans time than most of his 00s albums.

The only 2000 release I wouldn't change with "The Family" are "The Rainbow Children" and AOA.

And in that case I would also have to think well about it.

Always have been, always will.

BoraBora said:

PurpleBabied said:

I'm going to have to fight you on some of those.

Vanity 6/Appolonia 6 are historical curiousities. "Sex Shooter" is not an essential part of any record collection; it's not even catchy. Carmen Electra is "that time Prince did A/R with his dick for a really hot mannequin with no musical talent whatsoever." The Time were real musicians who I think suffered musically from Prince's heavy hand, but I can live without "Jungle Love."

We all love Prince, but he wasn't always the best judge of his own work and not everything he touched came away with genius. Some of this stuff is "maybe when I've gotten all of his albums and I've run out of bootlegs and Vault".

I see your point, to some extent.

Anyway the historical importance of V6, A6 and The Time is more prominent than their musical quality. So they deserves to be included in a Prince selected discography.

If we have to look only to musical quality, there are also some proper Prince album tracks that didn't deserve to be included.

It sounds like what you're saying is that his musical peak/prime was that Purple Rain era and nothing else even comes close. Because "inclusion into a musical walking tour of the Prince museum" and "worth listening to" are two different things. The eighties were rife with beautiful mannequins, and I think the fact he threw so many resources behind him is a testament to his own sexism at the time. The Time is an example of his control issues. But musically? Meh.

My theory: as he got older and got control of his masters, songs and concepts he would have otherwise put behind puppet acts he just stuck in the Vault instead. He also stopped doing A&R with "she's got the look" and "she's my type" so that's also a factor.

I guess for me separating out "musical worth" from "historical value" is difficult with Prince. If you wanted to show "influence beyond dude's official discography", "Manic Monday", that cover of "When You Were Mine", and "Nothing Compares 2 U" get there well before "Sex Shooter" or any of Mayte's stuff either.

I can see if you're just a huge fan of Prince as a vocalist or whatever not caring about them. But for the protege records he contributed 90%-100% of the content as a musician and as a songwriter.... And that's no knock against enjoying him as a vocalist, if he sung "101" or "The Screams of Passion" I think those would be on more Top 10 lists.

Disagree. Whether they are good or bad albums is irellevant. I think they are important from a historical perspective because they were all part of Prince's vision, but they'll never be as important as a Prince solo album. I'll take Prince's own versions of all the songs he gave to the protegee's anyday.

SPYZFAN1 said:

i don't care what you say, I am not buying GSC2000

BobGeorge909 said:

Sometimes important...usually not. Your collection will remain very representative sans Elixer and Child Of The Sun and whatever Carmen's album is called. I truly hope that these projects had motivations behind them other than catching some cootchie...but I unno...I seriously doubt it. It's a miracle for the recipient but something apparently so easy for P to whip out...a disc of beats...simple. I gotta say though...a couple, well..maybe one of trax off of Child of the sun I actually dig...ain't no place like you. Seeming not for anything Mayte brought to the table though. Sowee cutie pie. I adore her...but a musician she is not. [Edited 6/24/16 8:20am]

Not going to say more but elevating some of these talentless women as some kind of historical importance makes me salty. LMAO. Prince was very influential on a whole bunch of musicians and to me that should be addressed first.

"Baby, I'm saving 'poom poom, poom, poom' for myself. I think your first video should be about you pining after discount Spike from Buffy who's not calling you back after a hookup!"

++++++

[Edited 6/24/16 9:10am]