limoncello said:

babynoz said:

And she is right about that.

But when Prince says it........

EXACTLY.

But when a woman who worked with him says it, the response is, "Oh she should have known better." "She should be cleaning toilets if she wants money." Exhausting.

Who said that? Hyperbole isn't helpful.

babynoz said:

limoncello said:

EXACTLY.

But when a woman who worked with him says it, the response is, "Oh she should have known better." "She should be cleaning toilets if she wants money." Exhausting.

Who said that? Hyperbole isn't helpful.

You are right, I'll dial it back. Honestly, this thread is infuriating. She's saying the same thing Prince said for decades and the backlash is ridiculous. I don't recall Prince's male associates getting similar crap when they complained about not getting paid.

babynoz said:

limoncello said:

Congrats to you on missing my point.

I did see 20 Feet From Stardom. It's you who missed the point.....the point is you do what you need to do under the circustances.

You mentioned her being ditched, once again, been there. It's not a rare or unique occurence.

Furthermore, I'm reminding folks once again that if you read the OP she is the one who made her ordeal public so do not pretend that somebody just popped up out of the clear blue and decided to judge her when she herself opened the door. She's getting advice moreso than judgement.

Finally, it is concerning because that essay is dated in 2013 and it is now three years later and there is a gofundme page active, which suggest that all is still not well. I think people just hope she gets some steady income with a family to support.

Oh God, this is getting even sadder. I just found out about this gofundme page after seeing your mention. She is still beautiful.

limoncello said:

babynoz said:

Who said that? Hyperbole isn't helpful.

You are right, I'll dial it back. Honestly, this thread is infuriating. She's saying the same thing Prince said for decades and the backlash is ridiculous. I don't recall Prince's male associates getting similar crap when they complained about not getting paid.

I'm not seeing any backlash about her getting paid, she is right about that. What is being said is that sometimes practical concerns take precedence over other pursuits. Chief among those concerns for me is children, but that's just me.

If an artist has been grinding for umteen years and still can't pay the bills it is time to re-evaluate in order to figure out why and what to do going forward. No one wants to say it but maybe her talent is overestimated? It is one of the possibilities that nobody wants to talk about. IF that is the case then yes, it's time to consider other options.

This is a tough business and the competition is stiff.

limoncello said:

babynoz said:

Who said that? Hyperbole isn't helpful.

You are right, I'll dial it back. Honestly, this thread is infuriating. She's saying the same thing Prince said for decades and the backlash is ridiculous. I don't recall Prince's male associates getting similar crap when they complained about not getting paid.

Its a little different because the other associates, who just happen to be male and even female (Sheila E, etc), had continued work as musicians over the past 30 years. I dont know what Susannah has done and her credits look very bare. I think that's why the career option point came up. It was not meant to be insensitive.

babynoz said:

limoncello said:

You are right, I'll dial it back. Honestly, this thread is infuriating. She's saying the same thing Prince said for decades and the backlash is ridiculous. I don't recall Prince's male associates getting similar crap when they complained about not getting paid.

I'm not seeing any backlash about her getting paid, she is right about that. What is being said is that sometimes practical concerns take precedence over other pursuits. Chief among those concerns for me is children, but that's just me.

If an artist has been grinding for umteen years and still can't pay the bills it is time to re-evaluate in order to figure out why and what to do going forward. No one wants to say it but maybe her talent is overestimated? It is one of the possibilities that nobody wants to talk about. IF that is the case then yes, it's time to consider other options.

This is a tough business and the competition is stiff.

I'm not going to delve into her personal shit because I don't know it. But it appears she chose to be mostly a stay-at-home mother in recent years, something our society puts on a pedestal (to your point about putting the children first...). Obviously that didn't work out, etc, etc, HENCE the financial setback. But really, do not tell me I missed the point on all this. Point is time and again on these boards, women are held to different standards than men. We shouldn't accept that the women who help create the art struggle financially. We should do better.

pyramidseye said:

babynoz said:

I did see 20 Feet From Stardom. It's you who missed the point.....the point is you do what you need to do under the circustances.

You mentioned her being ditched, once again, been there. It's not a rare or unique occurence.

Furthermore, I'm reminding folks once again that if you read the OP she is the one who made her ordeal public so do not pretend that somebody just popped up out of the clear blue and decided to judge her when she herself opened the door. She's getting advice moreso than judgement.

Finally, it is concerning because that essay is dated in 2013 and it is now three years later and there is a gofundme page active, which suggest that all is still not well. I think people just hope she gets some steady income with a family to support.

Oh God, this is getting even sadder. I just found out about this gofundme page after seeing your mention. She is still beautiful.

Yes, I posted a link to the gofundme a few posts back and hopefully it will help because it is concerning that this has been going on for years now. Nobody deserves that.

limoncello said:

babynoz said:

I'm not seeing any backlash about her getting paid, she is right about that. What is being said is that sometimes practical concerns take precedence over other pursuits. Chief among those concerns for me is children, but that's just me.

If an artist has been grinding for umteen years and still can't pay the bills it is time to re-evaluate in order to figure out why and what to do going forward. No one wants to say it but maybe her talent is overestimated? It is one of the possibilities that nobody wants to talk about. IF that is the case then yes, it's time to consider other options.

This is a tough business and the competition is stiff.

I'm not going to delve into her personal shit because I don't know it. But it appears she chose to be mostly a stay-at-home mother in recent years, something our society puts on a pedestal (to your point about putting the children first...). Obviously that didn't work out, etc, etc, HENCE the financial setback. But really, do not tell me I missed the point on all this. Point is time and again on these boards, women are held to different standards than men. We shouldn't accept that the women who help create the art struggle financially. We should do better.

Susanna did not say women though....she said artists so that is your projection.

Women are held to different standards than men universally but I don't think that was her point with this particular essay.

babynoz said:

Susanna did not say women though....she said artists so that is your projection.

Women are held to different standards than men universally but I don't think that was her point with this particular essay.

Ok, now I think you're just trolling me. I'm not talking about her essay per se, but the response to it right here vs the response to similar commentary from male associates over the years. It's not my projection that this place is full of crazy rampant sexism, nor is it my projection that women earn less than men. And on and on and on.

limoncello said:

babynoz said:

Susanna did not say women though....she said artists so that is your projection.

Women are held to different standards than men universally but I don't think that was her point with this particular essay.

Ok, now I think you're just trolling me. I'm not talking about her essay per se, but the response to it right here vs the response to similar commentary from male associates over the years. It's not my projection that this place is full of crazy rampant sexism, nor is it my projection that women earn less than men. And on and on and on.

If you're not talking about the essay then what are you talking about? No trolling, just clarification. You are deliberately misreading what I wrote and I'm not letting you get away with it. Stop the histrionics and re-read, you'll see that I said.....

"Women are held to different standards than men universally"


This "place" is not any more or less full of rampant sexism than the world at large so why are you arguing that point with me when I already agreed with it? By all means a thread about the way women in the Prince camp and/or the music industry are treated would be an excellent idea, but this isn't that thread.

I swear, y'all so extra sometimes.

limoncello said:

babynoz said:

Susanna did not say women though....she said artists so that is your projection.

Women are held to different standards than men universally but I don't think that was her point with this particular essay.

Ok, now I think you're just trolling me. I'm not talking about her essay per se, but the response to it right here vs the response to similar commentary from male associates over the years. It's not my projection that this place is full of crazy rampant sexism, nor is it my projection that women earn less than men. And on and on and on.

You're right on the sexism tip. Denying that is like denying grass is green - look to the "who was Prince's hotest female associate" thread that shows up every month

However, I've never heard other associates talk about their financial situation as much as she does. Which prompts these threads. And having a "gofundme" page invites questions also.

I took a bit of issue with the fundraising thing because I thought fans deserved full disclosure before asking them to contribute. She was court awarded $11k per month from her ex - he fought it, but even if he is now paying half, or even 1/4 ($2,740) of the original award, that is still more than what a lot of the folks who donated earn. If he is in violation of a court order and still hasn't paid after 3 years and counting, then he will soon be in jail...so my guess is, he is paying.

And if he isn't paying, then tell us to shame his ass till he does. I'll gladly do it!

simm0061 said:

limoncello said:

Ok, now I think you're just trolling me. I'm not talking about her essay per se, but the response to it right here vs the response to similar commentary from male associates over the years. It's not my projection that this place is full of crazy rampant sexism, nor is it my projection that women earn less than men. And on and on and on.

You're right on the sexism tip. Denying that is like denying grass is green - look to the "who was Prince's hotest female associate" thread that shows up every month

However, I've never heard other associates talk about their financial situation as much as she does. Which prompts these threads. And having a "gofundme" page invites questions also.

I took a bit of issue with the fundraising thing because I thought fans deserved full disclosure before asking them to contribute. She was court awarded $11k per month from her ex - he fought it, but even if he is now paying half, or even 1/4 ($2,740) of the original award, that is still more than what a lot of the folks who donated earn. If he is in violation of a court order and still hasn't paid after 3 years and counting, then he will soon be in jail...so my guess is, he is paying.

And if he isn't paying, then tell us to shame his ass till he does. I'll gladly do it!

She had to pull out of a lot of FDeluxe shows last year because she had to be in court a lot. So I don't know.
I think I've only heard of her talk of financial issues once in an interview.

simm0061 said:

Exactly this has zero to do with Prince. She was married to Doyle Bramhall, they made a living, bought house, rasied kids, etc...THAT didn't work out and from all accusations, he either does not have or won't give her money for the kids after the divorce.

You don't know if she/they overextended herself or what...But Prince was a time in her YOUNG past. Unless he FOR SURE stopped her from making any money, this has zero relation to Prince

It is like any of you dating somoeine in high school or college and they became rich or famous..They owe you ZERO and that was just a time in your life and theirs.

That being said, I don't think any of her comments are directed at or mean she was expecting anything from Prince. It is just her life that she put out there probably out of frustration, and someone made a gofundme page. And, also, none of us know how or if he has helped her in the past. All fans can do is speculate overall on everything. We will never know. Too bad his memoir never will be completed.

OldFriends4Sale said:

jungleluv said:

Let's be real. Her sister Wendy is more well known and has had more success musically. Do I detect a little jealousy and a touch of bitterness here?

She's done work with Wendy & Lisa too, but Susannah was married with kids & then divorced. Most of her issues she's talked about were connected to that and him. Or lack from him.

[Edited 6/3/16 6:06am]

vandeluca said:

Exactly this has zero to do with Prince. She was married to Doyle Bramhall, they made a living, bought house, rasied kids, etc...THAT didn't work out and from all accusations, he either does not have or won't give her money for the kids after the divorce.

You don't know if she/they overextended herself or what...But Prince was a time in her YOUNG past. Unless he FOR SURE stopped her from making any money, this has zero relation to Prince

It is like any of you dating somoeine in high school or college and they became rich or famous..They owe you ZERO and that was just a time in your life and theirs.

That being said, I don't think any of her comments are directed at or mean she was expecting anything from Prince. It is just her life that she put out there probably out of frustration, and someone made a gofundme page. And, also, none of us know how or if he has helped her in the past. All fans can do is speculate overall on everything. We will never know. Too bad his memoir never will be completed.

OldFriends4Sale said:

She's done work with Wendy & Lisa too, but Susannah was married with kids & then divorced. Most of her issues she's talked about were connected to that and him. Or lack from him.

[Edited 6/3/16 6:06am]

Right, people took that comment way out of context.
The interview spanned pre-Prince, during Prince and after Prince

babynoz said:

pyramidseye said:

Oh God, this is getting even sadder. I just found out about this gofundme page after seeing your mention. She is still beautiful.

Yes, I posted a link to the gofundme a few posts back and hopefully it will help because it is concerning that this has been going on for years now. Nobody deserves that.

So sorry to hear about this, I wish her all the best

pyramidseye said:

FUNKNROLL said:

pyramidseye said:

This is from a 2013 interview with Prince's first serious sweetheart, Sussanah Melvoin.

http://beautifulnightschi...-with.html

Sigh.

...

Saw her at FDeluxe reunion. She seems a wonderful soul. That said none of us know the real detailed circumstances. She seems to be dealing with her current ex husband Doyle Bramhall. He is said to not be meeting his obligations for his kids. She may need to be transparent about her circumstances, to drag him through the press, to get him to meet his adult obligations. Those aren't Prince's kids. And maybe Doyle himself is sitting back thinking "go talk to your friend Prince". All the while he's partying up in Hollywood claiming to be broke. Who knows maybe Prince encouraged her to play the press game and gave her his blessing to say whatever she needed. It's hard to make the case your ex husband should be fulfilling his adult obligations to his kids if your own rich friends are swooping in airdropping bags of cash. . [Edited 6/4/16 4:52am]

The courts don't see it that way. He has a legal obligation and their are reprocussions if he doesn't comply with a court order. I'm guessing he is complying on some level. But that is their personal business.

I think the topic that we should be discussing is the music business and how it's changed over the past two decades. I think essentially record companies had no idea how to handle or market music in the "digital age". Instead of reinventing themselves and getting ahead of the technology, they tried to stop it from happening and wait it out like some kind of fad. The sat stubbornly fixed in their ways and still demanded $16 for a CD. And with that methodology, the only music that was going to make them money was crap that appealled to those with "dissposable income" e.g. white, middle and upper class, 12-18 year-olds. "Bieber fever"

Which left a lot of musicians to do for themselves. Which was good and bad. Good in the sense, that if you didn't get signed, it didn't really matter anymore, you can do it yourself and still get your music out there via social media etc. Bad, in the sense that if you an artist that is used to being signed and having a producer, and engineers, and promoters and capital to tour, all of a sudden you have to figure it out for your self. And if you are no longer "hungry", then you are going to come up short.

It's an evolutionary process and it has been interesting to see how artists respond to it.

I have no idea how much background singers earn. I guess you can make a living if you're paid for a tour but as a single mom she probably has to stay at home.

Do you earn thousands of dollars for doing back up vocals for a song? Especially if it's "just" an album track and not a single?

*edit*

So I looked at FDeluxe's youtube channel and apart from the NC2U video there are very few clips reaching 1,000 views.

[Edited 6/4/16 14:56pm]

Would The Family still get performance royalties from their underrated and brillant album?

limoncello said:

babynoz said:

Who said that? Hyperbole isn't helpful.

You are right, I'll dial it back. Honestly, this thread is infuriating. She's saying the same thing Prince said for decades and the backlash is ridiculous. I don't recall Prince's male associates getting similar crap when they complained about not getting paid.

the women and certain women do get hit hard here

Goddess4Real said:

Would The Family still get performance royalties from their underrated and brillant album?

I kind of doubt it. I think it would depend on if they were giving credit for writing any of the songs. I'd have to check ascap to see if Prince officially gave them composing credit for anything on the album. I seem to recall they were given writing credits in the liner notes but that was just done to try and down play P's involvement.

work a regular job. you know, the kind where you work till midnite last nite then had to be back at 8 am this morning. and now you can't move. it won't kill you.

kapo74 said:

PeteSilas said:

music business was always a bad deal for artists.

No offence, but most of them were/are millionairs or at least above average rich. Starting artists/bands who have the ambition to be stars may have it rough, but once they breakthrough they make a nice living. Even mediocre one day flies can make a couple of grand a gig and do several gigs per week. Not saying it ain't hard work, but we all have to work hard.

Where do you get your numbers? I know many touring musicians and you'd be totally woring.

cindyt said:

work a regular job. you know, the kind where you work till midnite last nite then had to be back at 8 am this morning. and now you can't move. it won't kill you.

It's important for artists to have some kind of back-up plan.There are no guarantees in the music business.You might make it big,or you might fail.It's good to have something to fall back on.

FunkiestOne said:

She probably has a point about not being able to make money selling the music, but what music does Susannah have anyway? Or does anyone care about it? I just know her from doing background vocals with Prince about 20 years ago.

.

If she can't pay her mortgage, then sadly, she should have perhaps chosen a more lucrative career. Or just known that the music business is high risk and most people don't make a living at it..probalby like 95% of musicians. And the ones that do play live all the time and support themselves doing that.

.

But yes of course the music business is about youth and the very few "artists" who are making millions at it are selling a brand more than any music. Most all the pop stars don't write their songs and can't sing well or play any instruments. They are manufactured products, not truly artists.

.

Oh well, I like her from her association with Prince and only wish her the best and hopefully she will make some money if the Revolution tours and she is a part of it, etc.

Or a non-douchebag husband. But I digress.

Except for her affiliation with Prince, Susannah never would have been in the music business to begin with. And honestly, while I am sure she is a lovely person, a 30-years-ago relationship is not going to sustain a career in the here and now - especially if you have only limited talent and smarts to fall back on. (What the heck is she talking about in this piece, anyway? She writes like a third grader.)