Why aren't they entitled to the songs that's in the vault??

...because they don't own their own masters.

...Seriously, even if they were to get songwriting royalties that doesn't mean they own the recording in the vault. It could also fall under a "work for hire" scenario.

moving to associated artists forum

Would it depend on who will controls the vault and Paisley Park?

avasdad said:

Why aren't they entitled to the songs that's in the vault??

Ownership of music compositions/lyrics is entirely unrelated to ownership of sound recordings.

This could partially change under the 35 years masters retribution law but this law is so unclear that no one has any idea what it means exactly in terms of who is entitled to claim master recordings.

I'm in fact quite surprised that AFAIK there hasn't yet been any legal battles around this, given that retribution began being possible in 2011.

avasdad said:

Why aren't they entitled to the songs that's in the vault??

They should be.

Shame P did not leave a will stating this.

keenly said:

avasdad said:

Why aren't they entitled to the songs that's in the vault??

They should be.

Shame P did not leave a will stating this.

Nonsense.

databank said:

keenly said:

They should be.

Shame P did not leave a will stating this.

Nonsense.

If two people write a song they BOTH should own it. PERIOD.

keenly said:

databank said:

Nonsense.

If two people write a song they BOTH should own it. PERIOD.

In a perfect world yes, and so should everyone who played on it, and the producer/arranger, and the engineers as well, and the guy who mastered it in the end, but it's more complicated than that. There are dozen if not hundreds of Prince songs that were co-written by other people: can you imagine the state of dilution of his estate if he had stated that each and everyone of them was entitled to a share of the masters of the songs he owned the masters of? It's complicated enough as it is with all those siblings, and God knows what's going to happen to all those tapes, thanks God Prince didn't state in a will that it should on top of it all be scattered between dozens of other musicians!

[Edited 5/10/16 11:15am]

databank said:

keenly said:

If two people write a song they BOTH should own it. PERIOD.

In a perfect world yes, and so should everyone who played on it, and the producer/arranger, and the engineers as well, and the guy who mastered it in the end, but it's more complicated than that. There are dozen if not hundreds of Prince songs that were co-written by other people: can you imagine the state of dilution of his estate if he had stated that each and everyone of them was entitled to a share of the masters of the songs he owned the masters of? It's complicated enough as it is with all those siblings, and God knows what's going to happen to all those tapes, thanks God Prince didn't state in a will that it should on top of it all be scattered between dozens of other musicians!

[Edited 5/10/16 11:15am]

Nonsense. Just the writers should own it.

Injustice anywere is a threat to justice everywhere.

I hope the musicians who played on the tracks are getting theit royalties. Prince should have at least insisted on that.

keenly said:

databank said:

In a perfect world yes, and so should everyone who played on it, and the producer/arranger, and the engineers as well, and the guy who mastered it in the end, but it's more complicated than that. There are dozen if not hundreds of Prince songs that were co-written by other people: can you imagine the state of dilution of his estate if he had stated that each and everyone of them was entitled to a share of the masters of the songs he owned the masters of? It's complicated enough as it is with all those siblings, and God knows what's going to happen to all those tapes, thanks God Prince didn't state in a will that it should on top of it all be scattered between dozens of other musicians!

[Edited 5/10/16 11:15am]

Nonsense. Just the writers should own it.

Injustice anywere is a threat to justice everywhere.

I hope the musicians who played on the tracks are getting theit royalties. Prince should have at least insisted on that.

The law is very unclear regarding ownership of masters after retribution, and it could indeed include anyone involved in a track. + you don't think the thing thoroughly: if Chaka Khan records a song she didn't compose should only the composer get the masters when they weren't involved at all in arranging, producing and recording the song? It's absurd: lots of people write songs for others but have nothing to do with the recording process (and don't pay for it either)! And should one own the masters for covers of their songs? Should Prince have owned Sinead's NC2U? You say just the writers should own it, well... Think again: it IS more complicated than that. And this is why ownership of a musical composition is legally separated from ownership of a sound recording. The one who pay for the song recording are usually the ones who own it.

And again how in the world could and should people who play on tracks get royalties? Royalties are related to composing a track, not playing on it. You get paid once for playing on a song and that's usually it (unless a specific deal has been passed but why would anyone do that?). Prince was quite cool about that BTW: when he used unreleased Clare Fischer arrangements on a different, released song, Fischer would get a check from WB even though he'd already gotten paid for the work in the first place.

jtfolden said:

...because they don't own their own masters.

...Seriously, even if they were to get songwriting royalties that doesn't mean they own the recording in the vault. It could also fall under a "work for hire" scenario.

I wish these Wendy and Lisa flunkies could understand that. THey were hired hands.

FUNKYNESS said:

FUNKYNESS said:

jtfolden said:

...because they don't own their own masters.

...Seriously, even if they were to get songwriting royalties that doesn't mean they own the recording in the vault. It could also fall under a "work for hire" scenario.

I wish these Wendy and Lisa flunkies could understand that. THey were hired hands.

*I* could be considered a W&L flunky, I just understand the position he had them in... They could have taken part in the composition of all of the Dream Factory album and yet that doesn't mean they'd own the masters of the recordings themselves in the vault... they'd just be owed song-writing credit, much as is the case with Mountains, Sometimes it Snows In April, etc...

jazzvirtuoso said:

FUNKYNESS said:

I wish these Wendy and Lisa flunkies could understand that. THey were hired hands.

I'm a little confused about purple rain, didn't they get royalties off of that song?

They may have had a hand in it but the song's authorship is registered with ASCAP as solely by Prince. So doubtful they get any songwirting credits off this track.