A conversation here got me wondering what exactly did Wendy and Lisa actually do that singles them out as particularly central to Prince's music during the Revolution days. I don't hear the other musicians being talked about as much.

Looking back at the Purple Rain tour, for example, they just seem mediocre at best.

Dunno

Agreed.

They might be talented in their own right (although the albums they released would seem to disprove that theory) but in my opinion they had only a negative effect on Prince's music. Take off the rose-tinted specs guys... The 1995 NPG was a far superior band made up of better musicians.

ian said:

How did they have a negative effect and were you listening to Prince at that time? I wasn't, so I'm curious why it is that many people seem to hold these two ladies in high regard. I can't see, or hear it.
[This message was edited Mon Feb 10 10:12:28 PST 2003 by Anji]

They might be over appreciated by some fans, but the girls had their merit. They were talented musicians with TOTALLY different backgrounds from Prince's. They contributed with lots of influences that Prince would probably have never reach by himself ... They had a classical background that SURE added something to Prince's sound, and the influence remains today. Not to mention things like The Beatles or other white acts ... Come on, dig Purple Rain, Around The World In A Day and Parade -The influence is right there. Also, I'm 99% sure that things like "Power Fantastic" had a lot to do with W&L's playing.

On the other hand, I also prefer some of his "newer" bands, like the 1995 NPG or the latest one with Maceo and Candy. But the hype about Wendy & Lisa is that they belong to a CLASSIC era in Prince's career where he produced some of his best material. Like it or not, they are a myth.

I have also said the same thing, but I enjoy the music they have made together since Prince. The bands he has had since the Revolution are way tighter than the Revolution ever was.

Talent.

They complimented Prince's own talent quite well. I'd say they were closer to being cut by the same cloth as him.

I don't think they were all that BUT they did add a quirkyness to his sound. And helped write some of the classic pop tunes from 'that' Prince era. Rasberry Beret was nearly all them apparently. Those classy violin arrangements on that track were Lisa's doing. Obviously my knowledge of this is only from what I heard at the time.

I also think they inspired Prince's creativity and helped just nudge him in the right directions. I remember listening to an interview with Wendy. She was saying Prince used to approach them with ideas for songs. Some of them were the kind of half hearted, throw away stuff we got in the 90's. So she would say 2 him... "Nah, i've heard you do that before". Then he would go away and change it in2 somethin' truly spectacular.

I think they all just gelled and created a great sound. But Prince was clearly the more focused as he suvived and they drifted away.

IMHO.

Anji said:

Although I'm a big fan of Wendy and Lisa I think the reason they were "special" in the Revolution was because they were girls. I think it's post Revolution that the girls finally became accomplished musicians. I've read here (many times) that because the girls were "classically" trained they brought in a different vibe into the Prince & The Revolution mix. I would agree only if they themselves used this particular classical training into their own albums. The debut and Fruit At The Bottom are IMO obvious Prince funk style jams. Eroica (my favorite) and GirlBros are a bit mellow and nice but there's nothing in them that reminds me of the experimental funk of Parade and Around the World in a Day...

lickerdipper said:

I can see what you're saying with regards to bringing their classical/different influences upon Prince's music. However, the question remains how much of the Revolution's musical success did they actually contribute to?

LaVisHh said:

They may be talented but I have never seen these two as anything more than band members that contributed their ideas. No doubt, Prince used some of their ideas and discarded others. I have never seem them as being on a similar musical level as Prince.
[This message was edited Mon Feb 10 9:54:15 PST 2003 by Anji]

nuthinbuttamuffin said:

So they added the pop sensitivity and psychedelic ingredients to his Revolution days? That might make sense.

They were... "a group"... the core of the Revolution.

Its all been nothing but a puppet show ever since..

Tammi Terrell was not even in the same ballpark talent-wise as Marvin Gaye, but you blend the two together and the sound was beautiful!

SAME with Prince with Wendy and Lisa; melding the talents together created a beautiful result! I cannot believe anyone with an ear for Prince music cannot hear how the women embellished Prince's music. There is more color,melody, and hooks in the compositions than in post-revolution music.

Anyways, isn't it funny for Prince to say "Kiss"is the only song he's proud of on "Parade" YET, "Girls & Boys", "Sometimes it Snows in April" show up as recently as the ONA tour and tours or recent times. I don't hear Shoo-Be -Doo on any tours!

Anji said:

I do believe they were the central piece in The Revolution. Bobby Z was the worst drummer in Prince's career (yes, even worst than Kirky J ... don't you think?). Dr. Fink was cool, but I guess he fits better in the pre-ATWIAD sound. Wendy & Lisa added THAT flavour in things like "Raspberry Beret", "Manic Monday", "Take Me With You", most of "Parade"... They were songwritters, probably the band members that most contributed adding ideas and arrangements of all Prince's bands. Perhaps it's just my impression and I'm wrong, but I appreciate them for all that.

Susannah

Savannah said:

They may have been the core of the Revolution but were they pivotal in making his Revolution days a musical success? To me, they always seemed to be just like anyone else who had contributed musical ideas that Prince either used or didn't. Nothing more, nothing less.

It just seems people talk about their contribution in elevated terms, especially Wendy's. It also seems, she does make a point of doing this herself. What happened?

You said fuck.

Actually Lisa was able to blow the hair away from her face quite skilfully whilst playing the keyboards.

Anji said:

...Well, it was a "team" thing. Like a combination of talents. They might not have the attention or the right scene to break through. It's a bit like when the Beatles split ... You still have Lennon songs and you still have McCartney songs. They might be great, but it's just not the same.

TheDolphinDancer said:

Good point. Think about how many great songs we would have missed if they would have never met.

ian said:

What?! They knew how to compose and write music for starters. Sure the NPG '95 were musically tighter but where was their flair for composition. Wendy and Lisa are amazing songwriters who create and help create songs with dazzling structure. Just check out Parade, some of the stuff going on there is out of this world. For most of the 90's Prince was lost completely. Bland conventional songwriting with uninspired arrangements. Thank god for his latest band!

As for their solo work. W&Ls efforts range from good to outstanding. Even at their weakest (Fruit At The Bottom) This was superior to 80% of the material Prince put out in the last decade.

Essential W&L songs

Waterfall
This Is The Life
Everything But You (foooking amazing!!!)
Are You My Baby

The entire Eroica album
The entire Girl Bros album

WildheartXXX said:

Listening to the Revolution albums, they are all brilliantly conceived and executed albums. Whatever Wendy and Lisa's degree of influence, something was working. Perhaps Susannah?

[This message was edited Mon Feb 10 10:52:05 PST 2003 by Anji]
[This message was edited Mon Feb 10 10:56:44 PST 2003 by Anji]

pimpytheclown said:

So you are saying that they were nothing more than ordinary musicians but when given an opportunity to work and influence Prince's music, they brought extraordinary results. Does that add up?

What was he asking for in, 'In This Bed I Scream'? Did he want their contribution again?

Anji said:

NO; YOU are the one asking "what is so special about W&L, when one could say, what was so special about Tammi Terrell, but meld the talents together and you have something!

To take it to silly extremes, Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor are better actors than Mark Hammill and Harrison Ford, in pure talent. Hammill and Ford TOGETHER had better chemistry and bounced off eachother more, and made more enjoyable Star Wars characters, on chemistry alone.

W&L I would say are NOT as talented as Sonny Thomson, or Rappin' Tony M (okay, not Tony), but that chicken bucket headed drummer (the name escapes me). BUT the results weren't as good.FACT.

The fact that W&L work with so many talented artists today (Neil Finn, for example) and continue to have record labels back them, speaks to their talent. So you are WRONG to call them "ordinary".

If Prince continues to make the quality of music he's doin'with the band he has on "One Nite Alone Live", W&L debates will be stale. RIGHT NOW, the latest NPG is his BEST band. It's just a matter if he'll continue with them.

WildheartXXX said:

Personally, I think everything you just listed there was dreadful. It's all subjective...

pimpytheclown said:

You seem to be talking about Wendy and Lisa in an entirely differently way to how I perceive the band members you've mentioned from the NPG. It seems Wendy and Lisa to you, added something beautiful to the music at that time. All I'm saying is how much of that music should be attributed to their influences?

In the case of Michael B, Mr. Hayes and Sonny T, I would never hold them dear enough, or consider them responsible, for the creative quality of the Gold era, for example. So why do people do the same with Wendy and Lisa about the Revolution era and it's music? I'm just saying that I saw them as ordinary musicians around Prince. It's clear from this discussion they added certain influences to his sound, but ultimately it was Prince's music, and visions, not theirs. Wasn't it?
[This message was edited Mon Feb 10 12:04:39 PST 2003 by Anji]

I don't think they're the best musicians Prince has ever played with, but many still consider his best output to be from 84-87, PR thru SOTT.
Of course, they were disbanded in 1986, but from interviews with W&L since then, concerning SOTT, indicates they worked on many of the SOTT songs and were upset they weren't given proper credit for doing so.
The writing styles of Starfish and Coffee, TBODParker, IIWYG, and Strange Relationship sound like projects they likely helped on.

Who knows...? But that kind of perspective hasn't really come out on Prince's albums since.

Anji said:

It's been well-documented in that old Rolling Stone issue from 1986 and the testimonies in the book, DMSR of W&L's influence on Prince: not only did they write a great deal of music and had unmatched imput into his work,but they also introduced Prince to albums/cd's of music he hadn't heard before. So the influence was far reaching. Also, the raunchiness factor decreased from "Purple Rain"-"Parade", probably having to do with having women in such prominance.

I suggest you listen to "Wendy and Lisa", their first "solo" album after the Revolution split. In many ways it it a continuation of the sensibilities of Parade, moreso than "Sign o' the Times" and later work.

I think after the Revolution experience blew up in Prince's face he vowed to never collaborate in that way again and future bandmates CLEARLY were second-fiddle to Prince. Only now, with Maceo Parker and a little with Candy Dulfer are artists allowed to free-form in his music.