beachy said:

beachy said:

Prince grew up in the Seventh Day Adventist Church and I am not familiar with their beliefs.

Seventh Day Adventist are traditional Christians they celebrate the Sabbath on Saturdays instead of Sundays but other than that they are pretty traditional.

But this is where it might get really interesting as Wizard says, to determine the nature of their relatiionship or at least how they thought about it.

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In 1985 Prince did the interview with Rolling Stone and says he believes in reincarnation. In UTCM his main theme is the discovery that if two souls are one, they will never be apart.

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Somehow this Egypt/pharoah thing ties in with this, I suspect. Including the line in his song Revelation.

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I don't know if he abandoned his former beliefs when he joined JW or kept some of them. He seemed to have alot of New Age beliefs as well as JW and more traditional beliefs. The final avatars with the 3rd eye and naming his band 3rdEyeGirl - who is the girl in his life with the third eye open? hm??

This is some of it from www.wikipedia.com .

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The Seventh-day Adventist Church is a Protestant Christian group. It is different from other Protestant groups because the followers believe that Saturday is the day we should worship God. The Bible calls this day the "Sabbath".

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The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week (Gen 2:1-3) in Judaism and in the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. Saturday is the sixth day of the week in the major Christian denominations. That is why they are called "Seventh-day Adventists". Although the abbreviation "SDA" is commonly used, "Adventist" is the church's preferred shortening of "Seventh-day Adventist".[1] The Seventh-day Adventist Church came from the Millerite movement in the United States. This included people from many denominations.

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The Millerites started in the middle part of the 19th century.[2] The Millerites were people who followed the teachings of William_Miller_. Miller preached that Jesus is coming very soon, in the Second Coming or Second Advent. The church name "Adventist" came from the word "Advent." The Seventh-Day Adventist Church started in 1863. Much of the theology of the Seventh-day Adventist church is the same as evangelical teachings such as the Trinity and Biblical inerrancy.

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Teachings that are different include the unconscious state of the dead (which means that when people die, they do not wake back up until Judgment Day) and the doctrine of an investigative judgment. The Bible says so in Ecclesiastes 12:7 [1].

Ok, here is one of those pics I'd love to cut Nikki Sixx out of. Anyway, in the beginning of this article, she talks about Prince briefly. It does say that "Vanity demanded more money for the part (Purple Rain) and she was immediately "expelled" from Prince's magic circle". The article was posted on Housequake.com but I don't know the original source.

I'm mostly interested in his views of the afterlife, the idea of 2 souls being one, and his notion in 1985 that if you find yourself, you find God. They all have something to do with how he saw vanity too I believe.

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wikipedia says JW have 2 unique beliefs, one is the idea of the unconscious state of the dead, the other is something called investigative judgment.

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somehow the various beliefs do not seem compatible though.

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I get a strong sense from him that he is aware of having past lives. And I am not one who has ever believed in that. But there is something about him where I find myself suspending my disbelief, if that makes any sense.

well she should have gotten more money, it was a co - starring role!

And she had experience, she'd been in 2 films already. The Revolution were being unfair and jealous.

Her role was 2nd only to Prince. She was his co - star and she helped write it and it was about her too. I get the idea he treated her unfairly, like a lowly employee. am I right? She was going to be paid 5K only, and as far as I could tell no royalties. That ain't right. Even could work for free but should have royalties.

beachy said:

well she should have gotten more money, it was a co - starring role!

And she had experience, she'd been in 2 films already. The Revolution were being unfair and jealous.

Her role was 2nd only to Prince. She was his co - star and she helped write it and it was about her too. I get the idea he treated her unfairly, like a lowly employee. am I right? She was going to be paid 5K only, and as far as I could tell no royalties. That ain't right. Even could work for free but should have royalties.

AGREED. I thought it was interesting that the article said she got expelled when really, she was the one who left.

purplegirl00 said:

Ok, here is one of those pics I'd love to cut Nikki Sixx out of. Anyway, in the beginning of this article, she talks about Prince briefly. It does say that "Vanity demanded more money for the part (Purple Rain) and she was immediately "expelled" from Prince's magic circle". The article was posted on Housequake.com but I don't know the original source.

I know she showed up at several things of his in the 80's including giving him an AMA in the 80's for Purple Rain and he gave her a snake so i think that was exaggerated, being exiled and all from the purple camp

Thanks for posting that article purple. Its hard to follow her after 1987 when Nikki's book quits talking about her. From 1987 to 1991 when she converts its dark.

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

well she should have gotten more money, it was a co - starring role!

And she had experience, she'd been in 2 films already. The Revolution were being unfair and jealous.

Her role was 2nd only to Prince. She was his co - star and she helped write it and it was about her too. I get the idea he treated her unfairly, like a lowly employee. am I right? She was going to be paid 5K only, and as far as I could tell no royalties. That ain't right. Even could work for free but should have royalties.

AGREED. I thought it was interesting that the article said she got expelled when really, she was the one who left.

yeah she had to correct that assumption with Donnie Simpson as well as Paxi. The media ran with the story and just kept repeating it. Well I do think they were not nice to her and were jealous and resentful of her special relationship as well as her beauty. And they probably didn't treat her well, But she walked away first.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

AGREED. I thought it was interesting that the article said she got expelled when really, she was the one who left.

yeah she had to correct that assumption with Donnie Simpson as well as Paxi. The media ran with the story and just kept repeating it. Well I do think they were not nice to her and were jealous and resentful of her special relationship as well as her beauty. And they probably didn't treat her well, But she walked away first.

I found this another version of Vanity meeting Prince http://linkis.com/www.ins...om/p/XMMGQ I don't know which publication it came from. Thanks Jennifer

[Edited 5/28/16 21:13pm]

Well it goes back to what we discussed earlier. Prince liked to control people and he himself said he did so that people wouldn't leave him. But that's exactly what happened with both Vanity and Morris Day - he wouldn't relinquish control over them or their acts, songs, careers - so instead of keeping them close he drove them away. If Vanity was unhappy in her relationship with him (she loved him but he was messing around with all these other women) and had little or no control over her career, had to sing etc. what Prince wanted her to etc. and then Prince doesn't really offfer her fair pay to be in Purple Rain, I can understand why she felt she had to break away and pursue things on her own, especially as she started getting more lucrative offers, with more opportunities elsewhere. And as she herself said, Prince wasn't about to change, so maybe breaking up with him and moving on was the best thing she could do for herself at the time.

Genius you're rigt and maybe I will have to work on the timeline some more but I think most of those meeting were between her presentation of the AMA award in Jan 1985 and July 1987 when she goes to MPLS to meet Nikki and stays behind to see Prince. That's also when he writes Adore and some other things presumably to her. I have a suspicion that the trip to MPLS did not end well, that Prince was upset about her engagement and her determination to get married to someone else. And retaliated by inviting Susannah to PP, then going wild on the Lovesexy tour with Cat and Sheila. He seemed to descend into years of debauchery after 1987.

beachy said:

well she should have gotten more money, it was a co - starring role!

And she had experience, she'd been in 2 films already. The Revolution were being unfair and jealous.

Her role was 2nd only to Prince. She was his co - star and she helped write it and it was about her too. I get the idea he treated her unfairly, like a lowly employee. am I right? She was going to be paid 5K only, and as far as I could tell no royalties. That ain't right. Even could work for free but should have royalties.

During the blog talk radio interview when she said that they were only going to pay her $5000 she stated why Prince only wanted to pay her so little. "She said that it was just to hold me so that I could not go anywhere or do anything with my life." She should have been paid way more money than what they offered her Prince was paid like $250,000. I think he was so possessive and controlling at the time that he wanted her to ask him for everything. For an independent woman like Denise that probably got old fast.

Goddess4Real said:

I found this another version of Vanity meeting Prince http://linkis.com/www.ins...om/p/XMMGQ I don't know which publication it came from. Thanks Jennifer

[Edited 5/28/16 21:13pm]

This is what an insider said too. I believe it. Well, you just know he did this regularly and was one of his pickup tricks. Vanity was special but she wasn't the first or the last to get this from Prince. He was a man whore.

30yearfan said:

beachy said:

well she should have gotten more money, it was a co - starring role!

And she had experience, she'd been in 2 films already. The Revolution were being unfair and jealous.

Her role was 2nd only to Prince. She was his co - star and she helped write it and it was about her too. I get the idea he treated her unfairly, like a lowly employee. am I right? She was going to be paid 5K only, and as far as I could tell no royalties. That ain't right. Even could work for free but should have royalties.

During the blog talk radio interview when she said that they were only going to pay her $5000 she stated why Prince only wanted to pay her so little. "She said that it was just to hold me so that I could not go anywhere or do anything with my life." She should have been paid way more money than what they offered her Prince was paid like $250,000. I think he was so possessive and controlling at the time that he wanted her to ask him for everything. For an independent woman like Denise that probably got old fast.

yeah for sure. especially with her background of abuse. She would have felt like a wild animal, that was trapped, literally going nuts in the cage. I'm a little like that, and I would have gone nuts too.

endiadj said:

again, wouldn't salaries for the film be something for the studios, managers, etc., to determine? Prince wasn't funding the film or the tour, so he wouldn't be in control of that would he?

Maybe but a studio would also likely pay a co-star more than just the general cast or the band. I would imagine Prince and his management team (who brokered the deal with the studio) had some input on who got paid what etc.

beachy said:

beachy said:

Goddess4Real said:

I found this another version of Vanity meeting Prince http://linkis.com/www.ins...om/p/XMMGQ I don't know which publication it came from. Thanks Jennifer

[Edited 5/28/16 21:13pm]

This is what an insider said too. I believe it. Well, you just know he did this regularly and was one of his pickup tricks. Vanity was special but she wasn't the first or the last to get this from Prince. He was a man whore.

There is my favorite version- the bathroom event. I'm sure you're right, she wasn't the first nor the last but I still like it. It's Prince for crying out loud!

endiadj said:

again, wouldn't salaries for the film be something for the studios, managers, etc., to determine? Prince wasn't funding the film or the tour, so he wouldn't be in control of that would he?

Well yes and no. It was his movie, he got to choose the director and had some say about stuff. The producers would have given an overall budget for salaries, and his managers would have recommended how to divide it up. But if he had wanted to, he could have insisted she get more, because there were legitimate reasons to give her more. He could have given her some of his salary. He just didn't want her to get free.

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In WDC video, he is out riding his bike when she (the dove) is trapped in the room, but she finds the open door behind Matt Fink and flies out. That's when it shows Prince on the stair looking sad as she flies away.

[Edited 5/28/16 21:26pm]

beachy said:

Goddess4Real said:

I found this another version of Vanity meeting Prince http://linkis.com/www.ins...om/p/XMMGQ I don't know which publication it came from. Thanks Jennifer

[Edited 5/28/16 21:13pm]

This is what an insider said too. I believe it. Well, you just know he did this regularly and was one of his pickup tricks. Vanity was special but she wasn't the first or the last to get this from Prince. He was a man whore.

There is my favorite version- the bathroom event. I'm sure you're right, she wasn't the first nor the last but I still like it. It's Prince for crying out loud!

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

This is what an insider said too. I believe it. Well, you just know he did this regularly and was one of his pickup tricks. Vanity was special but she wasn't the first or the last to get this from Prince. He was a man whore.

There is my favorite version- the bathroom event. I'm sure you're right, she wasn't the first nor the last but I still like it. It's Prince for crying out loud!

I would too. I'm just saying the problem is that others will be in the same position as you. You're never going to be the only one. So easy to fall for the guy. But yeah, I still would. of course lol

beachy said:

endiadj said:

again, wouldn't salaries for the film be something for the studios, managers, etc., to determine? Prince wasn't funding the film or the tour, so he wouldn't be in control of that would he?

Well yes and no. It was his movie, he got to choose the director and had some say about stuff. The producers would have given an overall budget for salaries, and his managers would have recommended how to divide it up. But if he had wanted to, he could have insisted she get more, because there were legitimate reasons to give her more. He could have given her some of his salary. He just didn't want her to get free.

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In WDC video, he is out riding his bike when she (the dove) is trapped in the room, but she finds the open door behind Matt Fink and flies out. That's when it shows Prince on the stair looking sad as she flies away.

[Edited 5/28/16 21:26pm]

Good catch! So maybe on that- he saw her as a dove and himself too! Niiiiice Prince. Does that tie in with the "Empty Room" video?

[Edited 5/28/16 21:35pm]

endiadj said:

beachy said:

Well yes and no. It was his movie, he got to choose the director and had some say about stuff. The producers would have given an overall budget for salaries, and his managers would have recommended how to divide it up. But if he had wanted to, he could have insisted she get more, because there were legitimate reasons to give her more. He could have given her some of his salary. He just didn't want her to get free.

.

In WDC video, he is out riding his bike when she (the dove) is trapped in the room, but she finds the open door behind Matt Fink and flies out. That's when it shows Prince on the stair looking sad as she flies away.

[Edited 5/28/16 21:26pm]

i suppose he could've had a say in it but he was still an up and coming musician himself. he hadn't hit it big enough to have too much power in who earned what over a studio or others over him.

What I learned is that it wasn't a studio production, Prince was insistent that they start filming by Thanksgiving and WB did not want to bankroll so they had to find independent financing. That would mean a cheaper budget but much more creative control. If he got paid 250k he could have paid her 90 as co star. or he could have taken 200 for himself and given her 50 plus royalties. It was an extremely lopsided division given that she was a rising star as well unlike Apollonia who really was not a singer or a rising star.

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

Well yes and no. It was his movie, he got to choose the director and had some say about stuff. The producers would have given an overall budget for salaries, and his managers would have recommended how to divide it up. But if he had wanted to, he could have insisted she get more, because there were legitimate reasons to give her more. He could have given her some of his salary. He just didn't want her to get free.

.

In WDC video, he is out riding his bike when she (the dove) is trapped in the room, but she finds the open door behind Matt Fink and flies out. That's when it shows Prince on the stair looking sad as she flies away.

[Edited 5/28/16 21:26pm]

Good catch! So maybe on that- he saw her as a dove and himself too! Niiiiice Prince. Does that tie in with the "Empty Room" video?

[Edited 5/28/16 21:35pm]

Well if you watch the video the dove flies into the room with Matt Fink, not out of the room - so maybe it's not as symbolic as people think.