beachy said:

contropurple said:

I think he wasn't too bad with it. If she was meant to be it would of happend long ago. He knew he was expected to show some sadness. In my view Prince was looking for his alter ego in the flesh his whole life. If it didn't add up, he let them go.

I used to sort of think that until Prince died within weeks of Denise-that is when I felt there was more to it. This thread has helped unravel some of it - they were not a feel good ,happy ever after romance/relationship/ affair whatever it is called but something that was legit and was maintained through the years until death made them part on earth.

wizardtelly said:

beachy said:

Maybe a little. I think it is because we are looking at songs and videos that he didn't specifically ever link to Vanity. Also I think chicks tend to want the fairytale ending and we bolt that narrative onto all intense relationships. We might be getting a little carried away here but its not too bad yet. I think we'll learn more about their relationship if we stay objective though.

To be quite honest though, I think we've been incredibly tactical. I'm a recent join to this thread but following and unraveling the symbolism and the actual meaning of his songs makes what we're doing less "fan-fic" and more reality. Lol! But I will say, if you want a good Prince fan-fic fix, just go on Mayte's Instagram and read her comments. The drama, humor, and #eternallove hashtags are all any fan-fix could ever need. I also think that it's not a female thing, I think understanding Prince and letting go of the mysticism behind him, all of this makes perfect sense. Perhaps we could have looked too deep, but I don't believe so, "My knees.. Denise.. Denise.." He didn't have to. He didn't have to acknowledge her much at all. He didn't have to say anything at his show at all, but it was the tales he chose to share for the first time.

beachy said:

kellyna said:

Beachy - in the Spin interview which you posted the link earlier, they talk about how it was the conflict of possibly two movie deals, so I think that was also part of the issue between Prince and Vanity, it wasn't only the Motown deal.

For the film’s love interest, Prince cast Vanity, née Denise Matthews, as an aspiring singer torn between the affections of the Kid and Morris.

MAGNOLI When I met Vanity, I was at [nightclub] First Avenue, in the mezzanine area. Before anyone even said a word, I felt a quickening in the air. Within seconds, people started buzzing, “Vanity’s here, Vanity’s here.” I saw her coming through, one of the most beautiful women you could ever lay your eyes on, packed into latex or whatever second skin, looking exquisite.

COLEMAN Vanity was supposed to be the lead, but she left right before the film. It almost tanked the film. I don’t know what happened. Maybe it was a personal issue between her and Prince. They were dating.

MELVOIN My only speculation was that they had a big blowout. That’s what I heard. They had a huge blowout and she bolted.

MAGNOLI What happened was — and it’s the Hollywood story — Martin Scorsese was casting for The Last Temptation of Christ, and they gave her an offer to play Mary Magdalene. She came to me and said, “Listen, I’ve got this offer, my agent wants me to take it, what should I do?” I felt bad for her because I knew she was in a terrible bind. In the end, she and her representative made the determination that they would do the Scorsese project, which then got delayed because of financing.

ok i understand but I just wanted to see the article where it said he made her choose, to see if I could glean any other details. does anybody know where they saw it? Genius or Kelly or anyone else?

No I never saw any kind of article it, I was only referencing Genuis's post. But I do think Magnoli's comments are interesting because obviously timing was a huge issue, because if she did get cast in Martin Scorsese's movie, it would likely overlap with the filming of Purple Rain. But I can't say I blame Vanity for wanting to do Scorses's movie as being in one of his films could have really boosted her career as an actress.

wizardtelly said:

beachy said:

Maybe a little. I think it is because we are looking at songs and videos that he didn't specifically ever link to Vanity. Also I think chicks tend to want the fairytale ending and we bolt that narrative onto all intense relationships. We might be getting a little carried away here but its not too bad yet. I think we'll learn more about their relationship if we stay objective though.

To be quite honest though, I think we've been incredibly tactical. I'm a recent join to this thread but following and unraveling the symbolism and the actual meaning of his songs makes what we're doing less "fan-fic" and more reality. Lol! But I will say, if you want a good Prince fan-fic fix, just go on Mayte's Instagram and read her comments. The drama, humor, and #eternallove hashtags are all any fan-fix could ever need. I also think that it's not a female thing, I think understanding Prince and letting go of the mysticism behind him, all of this makes perfect sense. Perhaps we could have looked too deep, but I don't believe so, "My knees.. Denise.. Denise.." He didn't have to. He didn't have to acknowledge her much at all. He didn't have to say anything at his show at all, but it was the tales he chose to share for the first time.

what I think is a female thing is wanting to put marriage and children onto a true love scenario and being disappointed or sad when that doesn't happen. Prince's father told him, Never get married. That was in the film but also Prince said in an interview that he really did tell him that. And guys especially rock stars want multiple women. Even Vanity (a chick) said she wanted only him, he wanted many. And that's a major reason she left and they din't stay together. But otherwise I think we've been pretty good about it, like you said.

[Edited 5/28/16 11:21am]

I think I am ready to finally listen to the Melbourne concert that is being discussed with him saying "Denise, Denise . . . ."

Please tell me how can I hear it? Can someone share it ?

Thanks

kellyna said:

beachy said:

ok i understand but I just wanted to see the article where it said he made her choose, to see if I could glean any other details. does anybody know where they saw it? Genius or Kelly or anyone else?

No I never saw any kind of article it, I was only referencing Genuis's post. But I do think Magnoli's comments are interesting because obviously timing was a huge issue, because if she did get cast in Martin Scorsese's movie, it would likely overlap with the filming of Purple Rain. But I can't say I blame Vanity for wanting to do Scorses's movie as being in one of his films could have really boosted her career as an actress.

I agree she made the right choice for her career given the options she had available. It would have been huge had she gotten the Scorsese movie. The fact that Prince was screwing her mind up with his promiscuity was also a really good reason to go. As she said in her diary, I can't bear it any longer.

beachy said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

This is increasingly resembling a fanfic thread.

Maybe a little. I think it is because we are looking at songs and videos that he didn't specifically ever link to Vanity. Also I think chicks tend to want the fairytale ending and we bolt that narrative onto all intense relationships. We might be getting a little carried away here but its not too bad yet. I think we'll learn more about their relationship if we stay objective though.

Actually I don't think this thread seems like a fanfic thread at all. I think we've been trying to unravel some of the mystery around Prince's life and his relationship, what inspired him and what he was trying to say through his music. And I think we've been very clear to outline what we're guessing or interpreting as opposed to things that we know for fact. Everyone has been respectful in their views and observations.

I don't see where this thread is doing any harm, so I don't see why a couple of people has suggested it should be locked. If you're not interested in this topic, then don't access it and go to a thread that interests you and that you want to participate in.

beachy said:

kellyna said:

No I never saw any kind of article it, I was only referencing Genuis's post. But I do think Magnoli's comments are interesting because obviously timing was a huge issue, because if she did get cast in Martin Scorsese's movie, it would likely overlap with the filming of Purple Rain. But I can't say I blame Vanity for wanting to do Scorses's movie as being in one of his films could have really boosted her career as an actress.

I agree she made the right choice for her career given the options she had available. It would have been huge had she gotten the Scorsese movie. The fact that Prince was screwing her mind up with his promiscuity was also a really good reason to go. As she said in her diary, I can't bear it any longer.

Agree I think that had as much to do with her decision as anything. She wanted to be exclusive with him and he didn't want that. She probably felt it was an unhealthy thing to remain in a situation that wasn't making her happy. So I can see where moving somewhere else and doing something separate from Prince could seem like an appealing option.

That link to Vanity's Playboy interview doesn't work-I mean the video.

Also that pic of Prince and Vanity-the one where Susie is in it as well, where is that from?

kellyna said:

beachy said:

I agree she made the right choice for her career given the options she had available. It would have been huge had she gotten the Scorsese movie. The fact that Prince was screwing her mind up with his promiscuity was also a really good reason to go. As she said in her diary, I can't bear it any longer.

Agree I think that had as much to do with her decision as anything. She wanted to be exclusive with him and he didn't want that. She probably felt it was an unhealthy thing to remain in a situation that wasn't making her happy. So I can see where moving somewhere else and doing something separate from Prince could seem like an appealing option.

Really the career aspect if she had stayed was very grim. She had already lost respect for her singing when people found out that Prince was directing everything. She was getting paid next to nothing. She would have given up all her power if she had stayed with him. She made the smart choice, and actually she had several years of pretty good success. Her acting in Last Dragon and Action Jackson was pretty good too. I think Barry Gordy must have suppressed her career because she could have gone much farther.

I can't get my head around Prince when he was so involved with her and so hurt when she left, yet he doesn't realize fidellity is a 2 way street. It might have not been so offensive if he believed in an open relationship for both (even though it is distasteful to me) but he was really possessive like someone else said. He actually expected her to just be happy with being part of the harem.

beachy said:

I can't get my head around Prince when he was so involved with her and so hurt when she left, yet he doesn't realize fidellity is a 2 way street. It might have not been so offensive if he believed in an open relationship for both (even though it is distasteful to me) but he was really possessive like someone else said. He actually expected her to just be happy with being part of the harem.

The ego it takes to even attempt a harem is beyond so I get his expectations and any woman who dealt with him has to know it going in-even the wives.

contropurple said:

I think he wasn't too bad with it. If she was meant to be it would of happend long ago. He knew he was expected to show some sadness. In my view Prince was looking for his alter ego in the flesh his whole life. If it didn't add up, he let them go.

But Prince didn't exactly let Denise go, she left him. I don't think he was putting on an act with the sadness when she passed. Prince has never been fake about anything. And if I'm not mistaken, he tried to get her back over the years after their break-up. I think it's important that people know that SHE left him, not the other way around.

I don't think he was depressed about her at all. I don't think Prince was ever committed to a relationship with any of the women he was with...otherwise, it would have lasted. Someone who met as many women as he did would have found a mate he wanted to stay with if that had been his focus. I don't believe it was his focus at all. I know some won't like what I've said here, but that's okay. I can live with it.

Mumio said:

I don't think he was depressed about her at all. I don't think Prince was ever committed to a relationship with any of the women he was with...otherwise, it would have lasted. Someone who met as many women as he did would have found a mate he wanted to stay with if that had been his focus. I don't believe it was his focus at all. I know some won't like what I've said here, but that's okay. I can live with it.

There's nothing wrong with what your said. No one should be offended by someone else opinion because at the end of the day, it's jus that..... An opinion. I don't think any of us have the full truth about Prince and her or Prince and other women. I think a lot of us are just going by what we feel and see. Only Prince knows his true feeling and he took those to the grave with him.

cng89 said:

Mumio said:

I don't think he was depressed about her at all. I don't think Prince was ever committed to a relationship with any of the women he was with...otherwise, it would have lasted. Someone who met as many women as he did would have found a mate he wanted to stay with if that had been his focus. I don't believe it was his focus at all. I know some won't like what I've said here, but that's okay. I can live with it.

There's nothing wrong with what your said. No one should be offended by someone else opinion because at the end of the day, it's jus that..... An opinion. I don't think any of us have the full truth about Prince and her or Prince and other women. I think a lot of us are just going by what we feel and see. Only Prince knows his true feeling and he took those to the grave with him.

Thanks cng89 To me, the fact that he never did end up in a lasting relationship with anyone is what says it all. I can only have an opinion on what I do....or don't....see.

Mumio said:

cng89 said:

There's nothing wrong with what your said. No one should be offended by someone else opinion because at the end of the day, it's jus that..... An opinion. I don't think any of us have the full truth about Prince and her or Prince and other women. I think a lot of us are just going by what we feel and see. Only Prince knows his true feeling and he took those to the grave with him.

Thanks cng89 To me, the fact that he never did end up in a lasting relationship with anyone is what says it all. I can only have an opinion on what I do....or don't....see.

This is what I like to see in thread, lol. Everyone should just be respectful because not everyone is going to agree on the same things. I don't think any of us are wrong to be honest. He was too complex for us to be right or wrong, LOL!

cng89 said:

Mumio said:

Thanks cng89 To me, the fact that he never did end up in a lasting relationship with anyone is what says it all. I can only have an opinion on what I do....or don't....see.

This is what I like to see in thread, lol. Everyone should just be respectful because not everyone is going to agree on the same things. I don't think any of us are wrong to be honest. He was too complex for us to be right or wrong, LOL!

So, so true but it has been nice speculating

Vashtix said:

cng89 said:

This is what I like to see in thread, lol. Everyone should just be respectful because not everyone is going to agree on the same things. I don't think any of us are wrong to be honest. He was too complex for us to be right or wrong, LOL!

So, so true but it has been nice speculating

I agree. I am a Vanity/Prince fan so I lean towards them being twin souls and being together in the afterlife but I am sure there are people who are Mayte/Prince fans, Manuela/Prince fans and also Andy/Prince fans. I can almost promise that there is some speculating going on in those couple threads as well. People just seem to attack this thread a little more because of how long ago their relationship was.

.

Edit- Also I think there is some speculation going in the Sushanna/Prince thread too!

[Edited 5/28/16 12:28pm]

But of course it wasn't his focus to get married, that's what I've been saying. It doesn't mean he didn't fall in love or have deep feelings. That's what I mean by taking a love scenario and assuming marriage and children has to follow. For one thing, the life of a rock star is way different lifestyle than most of us. Constant travel, women stalking you and throwing themselves at you. Many women he liked were in love with him. He had wealth and could go and do what he liked when he wasn't working. He had lots of options.

Beachy!

[Edited 5/28/16 12:21pm]

Vashtix said:

I think I am ready to finally listen to the Melbourne concert that is being discussed with him saying "Denise, Denise . . . ."

Please tell me how can I hear it? Can someone share it ?

Thanks

I've been asking too

I read his mother would get upset at his father because after work his dad wanted to focus on music, which left the mother without any companionship, and since she was a fun loving person she would go out. So they fought alot. That is what I believe he saw happening with his relationship with Vanity, as per WDC.

beachy said:

you need to send your info in a note

GeniusLuv said:

Vashtix said:

I think I am ready to finally listen to the Melbourne concert that is being discussed with him saying "Denise, Denise . . . ."

Please tell me how can I hear it? Can someone share it ?

Thanks

I've been asking too

I was not ready to hear it yet but I am ready now. In time we will get to hear it.

Mumio said:

H was trying to find a way to avoid the failure of his parents' relationship. He hadn't seen a good one. He was looking at his father's and his manager's behavior and they were womanizers. He adopted the cake and eat it too idea to see if it would work, but his cake got up and walked out the door.

beachy said:

H was trying to find a way to avoid the failure of his parents' relationship. He hadn't seen a good one. He was looking at his father's and his manager's behavior and they were womanizers. He adopted the cake and eat it too idea to see if it would work, but his cake got up and walked out the door.

THIS!