You're most welcome guys! Thanks for reading. I've been holding on to that story a long time. Talked about it but never wrote it. Things just are not the same with them both gone. You don't really think about them in any overly significant way when you know they're here sharing the planet with you, but now that they are BOTH gone, it just feels like a massive part of my childhood and fun times were taken with them. Just ain't the same.

Since Ihave garnered so much knowledge about Prince and Denise I cannot listen to his music the same. Images in videos take on a new meaning; any mirror he looks into in person splitting into duplicity- I am thinking of Prince and Denise being twinsouls/mirror images

This thread is in my head now all the lyrics and songs . . .

I must have missed Paxi's article with the Caress Body Wash, does anyone have a link?

Paxi said:

Hi everyone, I haven't been active on here in QUITE a while, I had to look up how long ago I joined and it's been 11 years! But I've been reading posts from you guys, as we deal with the loss of our Prince.

I have a story to share regarding Vanity. I was a writer with the D.C. City Paper back in 1997, and at that time Vanity (Denise) had become very active in her evangelism. She was coming to D.C. June 1st of that year to preach and I did a brief blurb to accompany the calendar event that went in the paper.

A portion of what I wrote follows:

"The Artist Formerly Known as Vanity" is now Denise Smith, and her past includes being the queen of nastiness and blatant sexuality, and the symbol man's lover and protegee during the early '80s. But too much partying, too much promiscuity, and way too much cocaine brought the diva to her knees and close to death. Rumor has it Smith's hearty drug abuse knocked her out of Prince's life and out of the role as his leading lady in Purple Rain. Now the sinner has been saved and is preaching against just such wicked ways in her newfound role as evangelist, proving nothing is stranger than real life."

Well...someone didn't like what I wrote. And that someone was Denise. She actually reached me at my newspaper office a couple of days after that piece was printed in the paper to tell me, "Your article is wrong! I left Prince, he didn't leave me!"

I was stunned. First off because it's Vanity on the phone. Like, really? This woman's photo was taped to my wall next to my many Prince posters when I was a kid. Now she's on the phone with me??

I apologized to her and the phone call ended up with an invitation for me to meet/interview her before her church event the following Sunday.

I met her in a hotel lobby (seriously) in Greenbelt, MD and she had her PR person waiting with her, I guess to make sure I wasn't crazy or something, and once we made our introductions, the PR lady left.

I won't go into the whole thing but I spent about 5 hours with her; the majority of it being her relaying passages from the Bible; sitting with me with her Bible, telling me, "Jesus is God. Jesus is God." Over and over. But the one moment that stood out was when we went to CVS beforehand to get something she needed. For whatever reason, I picked up a bottle of that Caress body wash and out of nowhere she goes, "I can't look at that. That reminds me of Prince."

I didn't get the story behind it, I didn't pry, but I'm saying to myself, "It's 1997 and she's still hung up on Prince?"

I tell this long story just to say that yes their love was timeless (I feel). I have ALWAYS felt that she was his number one. His true desire, his true love. Just think about how young they were when they dated! Like, 22/23 or something? How can you have a mature relationship at that age? And being in the music business on top of that? Did they even have a chance?

Denise was little. I'm 5'10" and I towered over her. She was 5'3", 5'4" maybe? I just remember saying to myself that she and Prince were made for each other because not only were they friggin' STUNNING, she was little too! Lol. I could never tell from photos how big or little she really was. And just as pretty as ever. She smelled really good too and when I asked her what she was wearing, she smiled and told me it was a secret, that she mixed two kinds of perfume together. I wish I'd been a little more nosey and found out. lol.

Anyway, I hope this little memory provides something for you all. I stayed on the phone with my Mom all evening when I got home from work the day Prince passed. We stayed up watching CNN and all the news specials on him. I told her, "Mom, maybe I sound crazy but I just find it odd that he passed so soon after Vanity. It just...it's weird to me." She got what I was saying, and I'm so relieved to see this thread, to know that others understood my thinking. I think many things contributed to our Prince leaving this Earth, but I really feel this was a strong element.

[Edited 5/27/16 19:10pm]

Hey Pax,

Thanks for sharing that Vanity story. I enjoyed that even after turning to religion there was still that fiestiness in her personality to say "hey Prince didn't break up with me, I left him" - ha! I think it was in 1997 or 1998 that she also said that "Prince was the only man that she had ever really loved" so she never denied his feelings for him and by all accounts she loved him till the day she died.

And you're right not only were the two of them gorgeous together, I remember people who saw them in person together noting what a "completely striking couple they were" but they were like the perfect "pocket sized couple" - ha!

A number of us on this thread mentioned that we were surprised by how many former friends / associates of Prince referenced Vanity after Prince died and the coincidence of them passing away so close to each other and that's what started this whole thread and discussion.

Goddess4Real said:

Paxi said:

Hi everyone, I haven't been active on here in QUITE a while, I had to look up how long ago I joined and it's been 11 years! But I've been reading posts from you guys, as we deal with the loss of our Prince.

I have a story to share regarding Vanity. I was a writer with the D.C. City Paper back in 1997, and at that time Vanity (Denise) had become very active in her evangelism. She was coming to D.C. June 1st of that year to preach and I did a brief blurb to accompany the calendar event that went in the paper.

A portion of what I wrote follows:

"The Artist Formerly Known as Vanity" is now Denise Smith, and her past includes being the queen of nastiness and blatant sexuality, and the symbol man's lover and protegee during the early '80s. But too much partying, too much promiscuity, and way too much cocaine brought the diva to her knees and close to death. Rumor has it Smith's hearty drug abuse knocked her out of Prince's life and out of the role as his leading lady in Purple Rain. Now the sinner has been saved and is preaching against just such wicked ways in her newfound role as evangelist, proving nothing is stranger than real life."

Well...someone didn't like what I wrote. And that someone was Denise. She actually reached me at my newspaper office a couple of days after that piece was printed in the paper to tell me, "Your article is wrong! I left Prince, he didn't leave me!"

I was stunned. First off because it's Vanity on the phone. Like, really? This woman's photo was taped to my wall next to my many Prince posters when I was a kid. Now she's on the phone with me??

I apologized to her and the phone call ended up with an invitation for me to meet/interview her before her church event the following Sunday.

I met her in a hotel lobby (seriously) in Greenbelt, MD and she had her PR person waiting with her, I guess to make sure I wasn't crazy or something, and once we made our introductions, the PR lady left.

I won't go into the whole thing but I spent about 5 hours with her; the majority of it being her relaying passages from the Bible; sitting with me with her Bible, telling me, "Jesus is God. Jesus is God." Over and over. But the one moment that stood out was when we went to CVS beforehand to get something she needed. For whatever reason, I picked up a bottle of that Caress body wash and out of nowhere she goes, "I can't look at that. That reminds me of Prince."

I didn't get the story behind it, I didn't pry, but I'm saying to myself, "It's 1997 and she's still hung up on Prince?"

I tell this long story just to say that yes their love was timeless (I feel). I have ALWAYS felt that she was his number one. His true desire, his true love. Just think about how young they were when they dated! Like, 22/23 or something? How can you have a mature relationship at that age? And being in the music business on top of that? Did they even have a chance?

Denise was little. I'm 5'10" and I towered over her. She was 5'3", 5'4" maybe? I just remember saying to myself that she and Prince were made for each other because not only were they friggin' STUNNING, she was little too! Lol. I could never tell from photos how big or little she really was. And just as pretty as ever. She smelled really good too and when I asked her what she was wearing, she smiled and told me it was a secret, that she mixed two kinds of perfume together. I wish I'd been a little more nosey and found out. lol.

Anyway, I hope this little memory provides something for you all. I stayed on the phone with my Mom all evening when I got home from work the day Prince passed. We stayed up watching CNN and all the news specials on him. I told her, "Mom, maybe I sound crazy but I just find it odd that he passed so soon after Vanity. It just...it's weird to me." She got what I was saying, and I'm so relieved to see this thread, to know that others understood my thinking. I think many things contributed to our Prince leaving this Earth, but I really feel this was a strong element.

[Edited 5/27/16 19:10pm]

Great story about meeting Vanity/Denise do u have any pics?

[Edited 5/27/16 19:28pm]

Lol. No, no pics. This was 1997. I didn't have a phone with a camera and I surely didn't bring a camera with me. I don't even think I realized the significance of the moment until it passed. I did visit when she spoke at the church also that Sunday, my Mom came with me. She put oil on my forehead and everything; a bunch of other people who were there had it done too. I was 27 so it was a little much for me. lol. I honestly thought her to be a little on the fanatical side with it, at that time. I appreciated her, for sure, but it was a bit overwhelming. Once you attach yourself to her, if she likes you, she will stay on you to be in church and into the Bible on the regular. That just wasn't my thing at the time.

beachy said:

cng89 said:

I think Denise knew he wouldn't change back then. That superstar lifestyle always seems to break couples especially young ones. The fame really changed Prince I think and Denise wasn't the one to take the new Prince. All those women coming and going was really disrespectful and it was like he didn't even try to hide them from her. I think she would have stayed if he could keep it in his pants but then again, in the 90s and 00s he was still messing around it seems. Mayte and Manuela anyone?

well just remember his father actually did tell him to never get married (or he would lose his career like the father had)...

.

he was terrified of commitment for that reason, also because of his abandonment issues could not trust anyone, needed to control them...

.

he already had a harem started before Vanity arrived...(Moonsie, Jill Jones..)

.

and it was the 80s, everyone was supposed to be 'relaxed' about sex...

.

Vanity slept with others too...

.

it seems easy to solve this, but it wasn't. In the end I think Vanity was so beautiful that guys were hitting on her all the time, in front of prince, and this triggered his insecurities and kept him banging other girls to keep some kind of control of the situation...

You know, I think both of them were all over the place and a mess at that time. Young and a little stupid like the rest of us. I think Vanity scared him to be honest. She was not like any of those harem women, she was basically HIM with boobs and a uh, you know, lol. She was not someone who kept her mouth shut and let him take lead. He was afraid she would leave him and I think she was probably afraid he would leave her so she left first. It's not something simple to solve as you said and it's something that I can't quite put together all the way.

beachy said:

Paxi said:

Hi everyone, I haven't been active on here in QUITE a while, I had to look up how long ago I joined and it's been 11 years! But I've been reading posts from you guys, as we deal with the loss of our Prince.

I have a story to share regarding Vanity. I was a writer with the D.C. City Paper back in 1997, and at that time Vanity (Denise) had become very active in her evangelism. She was coming to D.C. June 1st of that year to preach and I did a brief blurb to accompany the calendar event that went in the paper.

A portion of what I wrote follows:

"The Artist Formerly Known as Vanity" is now Denise Smith, and her past includes being the queen of nastiness and blatant sexuality, and the symbol man's lover and protegee during the early '80s. But too much partying, too much promiscuity, and way too much cocaine brought the diva to her knees and close to death. Rumor has it Smith's hearty drug abuse knocked her out of Prince's life and out of the role as his leading lady in Purple Rain. Now the sinner has been saved and is preaching against just such wicked ways in her newfound role as evangelist, proving nothing is stranger than real life."

Well...someone didn't like what I wrote. And that someone was Denise. She actually reached me at my newspaper office a couple of days after that piece was printed in the paper to tell me, "Your article is wrong! I left Prince, he didn't leave me!"

I was stunned. First off because it's Vanity on the phone. Like, really? This woman's photo was taped to my wall next to my many Prince posters when I was a kid. Now she's on the phone with me??

I apologized to her and the phone call ended up with an invitation for me to meet/interview her before her church event the following Sunday.

I met her in a hotel lobby (seriously) in Greenbelt, MD and she had her PR person waiting with her, I guess to make sure I wasn't crazy or something, and once we made our introductions, the PR lady left.

I won't go into the whole thing but I spent about 5 hours with her; the majority of it being her relaying passages from the Bible; sitting with me with her Bible, telling me, "Jesus is God. Jesus is God." Over and over. But the one moment that stood out was when we went to CVS beforehand to get something she needed. For whatever reason, I picked up a bottle of that Caress body wash and out of nowhere she goes, "I can't look at that. That reminds me of Prince."

I didn't get the story behind it, I didn't pry, but I'm saying to myself, "It's 1997 and she's still hung up on Prince?"

I tell this long story just to say that yes their love was timeless (I feel). I have ALWAYS felt that she was his number one. His true desire, his true love. Just think about how young they were when they dated! Like, 22/23 or something? How can you have a mature relationship at that age? And being in the music business on top of that? Did they even have a chance?

Denise was little. I'm 5'10" and I towered over her. She was 5'3", 5'4" maybe? I just remember saying to myself that she and Prince were made for each other because not only were they friggin' STUNNING, she was little too! Lol. I could never tell from photos how big or little she really was. And just as pretty as ever. She smelled really good too and when I asked her what she was wearing, she smiled and told me it was a secret, that she mixed two kinds of perfume together. I wish I'd been a little more nosey and found out. lol.

Anyway, I hope this little memory provides something for you all. I stayed on the phone with my Mom all evening when I got home from work the day Prince passed. We stayed up watching CNN and all the news specials on him. I told her, "Mom, maybe I sound crazy but I just find it odd that he passed so soon after Vanity. It just...it's weird to me." She got what I was saying, and I'm so relieved to see this thread, to know that others understood my thinking. I think many things contributed to our Prince leaving this Earth, but I really feel this was a strong element.

[Edited 5/27/16 19:10pm]

wow Paxi thanks for the info. Yes it fits! She's saying Jesus is God. I believe the JW do not believe that.

.

Abut the Caress. From the lyrics to Prince's songs written at the time he was together with Vanity, they all have the bathing references. Even WDC video has him in a bathtub, getting out and extending his hand (to her...). Perhaps Caress was one of the washes they used together!

.

WDC says 'Don't make me chase you, even doves have pride...'

I have this sense that Denise left him and he was incredibly hurt by it. And perhaps a little bitter.

.

Did she say she had talked to him in the near past? Did she say anything about why she married that man Smith?

THAT answers the obsession with the shower and the bathing! Nice connection Beachy.

.

I always felt that WDC was about her leaving him and someone pointed out the vanity mirror he is standing in front of and the mirror split screen. I think it was 30yearfan.

Paxi said:

beachy said: th?

Hi, no she didn't say she and Prince had spoken recently. I was trying so hard to be respectful but oh my gracious there were so many questions I wanted to ask! This was the closest I'd ever get to Prince! lol. It was very evident though, she still had strong feelings.

No, she didn't comment on her husband. Maybe she did but who cares, I was trying to hear about Prince! lol. But no, she didn't.

damn! any other details? did she say why or how she left him? any hint that she had seen him after Purple Rain, say in the late 80s or early 90s? that they considered getting back together?

We developed a sense in this thread that they definitely were in contact in 1987, because Nikki Sixx's book spoke of it...

We are really lacking any confirmed info after 1987 about what may have happened...

I realize she was busy preaching to you, girl had a mission... lol

kellyna said:

Paxi said:

Hi everyone, I haven't been active on here in QUITE a while, I had to look up how long ago I joined and it's been 11 years! But I've been reading posts from you guys, as we deal with the loss of our Prince.

I have a story to share regarding Vanity. I was a writer with the D.C. City Paper back in 1997, and at that time Vanity (Denise) had become very active in her evangelism. She was coming to D.C. June 1st of that year to preach and I did a brief blurb to accompany the calendar event that went in the paper.

A portion of what I wrote follows:

"The Artist Formerly Known as Vanity" is now Denise Smith, and her past includes being the queen of nastiness and blatant sexuality, and the symbol man's lover and protegee during the early '80s. But too much partying, too much promiscuity, and way too much cocaine brought the diva to her knees and close to death. Rumor has it Smith's hearty drug abuse knocked her out of Prince's life and out of the role as his leading lady in Purple Rain. Now the sinner has been saved and is preaching against just such wicked ways in her newfound role as evangelist, proving nothing is stranger than real life."

Well...someone didn't like what I wrote. And that someone was Denise. She actually reached me at my newspaper office a couple of days after that piece was printed in the paper to tell me, "Your article is wrong! I left Prince, he didn't leave me!"

I was stunned. First off because it's Vanity on the phone. Like, really? This woman's photo was taped to my wall next to my many Prince posters when I was a kid. Now she's on the phone with me??

I apologized to her and the phone call ended up with an invitation for me to meet/interview her before her church event the following Sunday.

I met her in a hotel lobby (seriously) in Greenbelt, MD and she had her PR person waiting with her, I guess to make sure I wasn't crazy or something, and once we made our introductions, the PR lady left.

I won't go into the whole thing but I spent about 5 hours with her; the majority of it being her relaying passages from the Bible; sitting with me with her Bible, telling me, "Jesus is God. Jesus is God." Over and over. But the one moment that stood out was when we went to CVS beforehand to get something she needed. For whatever reason, I picked up a bottle of that Caress body wash and out of nowhere she goes, "I can't look at that. That reminds me of Prince."

I didn't get the story behind it, I didn't pry, but I'm saying to myself, "It's 1997 and she's still hung up on Prince?"

I tell this long story just to say that yes their love was timeless (I feel). I have ALWAYS felt that she was his number one. His true desire, his true love. Just think about how young they were when they dated! Like, 22/23 or something? How can you have a mature relationship at that age? And being in the music business on top of that? Did they even have a chance?

Denise was little. I'm 5'10" and I towered over her. She was 5'3", 5'4" maybe? I just remember saying to myself that she and Prince were made for each other because not only were they friggin' STUNNING, she was little too! Lol. I could never tell from photos how big or little she really was. And just as pretty as ever. She smelled really good too and when I asked her what she was wearing, she smiled and told me it was a secret, that she mixed two kinds of perfume together. I wish I'd been a little more nosey and found out. lol.

Anyway, I hope this little memory provides something for you all. I stayed on the phone with my Mom all evening when I got home from work the day Prince passed. We stayed up watching CNN and all the news specials on him. I told her, "Mom, maybe I sound crazy but I just find it odd that he passed so soon after Vanity. It just...it's weird to me." She got what I was saying, and I'm so relieved to see this thread, to know that others understood my thinking. I think many things contributed to our Prince leaving this Earth, but I really feel this was a strong element.

[Edited 5/27/16 19:10pm]

Hey Pax,

Thanks for sharing that Vanity story. I enjoyed that even after turning to religion there was still that fiestiness in her personality to say "hey Prince didn't break up with me, I left him" - ha! I think it was in 1997 or 1998 that she also said that "Prince was the only man that she had ever really loved" so she never denied his feelings for him and by all accounts she loved him till the day she died.

And you're right not only were the two of them gorgeous together, I remember people who saw them in person together noting what a "completely striking couple they were" but they were like the perfect "pocket sized couple" - ha!

A number of us on this thread mentioned that we were surprised by how many former friends / associates of Prince referenced Vanity after Prince died and the coincidence of them passing away so close to each other and that's what started this whole thread and discussion.

Kellyna, I am cracking up at 'pocket sized couple', LMAOOO!

Hi guys, here is the link to the blurb. I never wrote a follow up article.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/arts/article/13013184/denise-smith

The posting date that it was saved in the online archives was 2007 but the event was in 1997.

[Edited 5/27/16 19:40pm]

Paxi said:

You're most welcome guys! Thanks for reading. I've been holding on to that story a long time. Talked about it but never wrote it. Things just are not the same with them both gone. You don't really think about them in any overly significant way when you know they're here sharing the planet with you, but now that they are BOTH gone, it just feels like a massive part of my childhood and fun times were taken with them. Just ain't the same.

Exactly , just ain't the same.

I love that story about Denise - thanks for sharing

Paxi said:

You're most welcome guys! Thanks for reading. I've been holding on to that story a long time. Talked about it but never wrote it. Things just are not the same with them both gone. You don't really think about them in any overly significant way when you know they're here sharing the planet with you, but now that they are BOTH gone, it just feels like a massive part of my childhood and fun times were taken with them. Just ain't the same.

Paxi we feel the same. Most of us have been camping on this thread for the last month trying to work through our sorrow. When Vanity died it was like getting socked in the gut. Such a beautiful creature, I couldn't believe she was gone. Then to lose Prince just 2 months later nearly did me in. I've cried buckets since. My only comfort has been to reconstruct their love affair. I don't know why, but it somehow seemed a spiritual undertaking. I don't expect other people to understand it, because I don't understand it either.

cng89 said:

I have a question... Does anyone know if Prince and Denise talked just before she passed? Did he know just how close to death she was at the end? I have seen people mention her GoFundMe campaign and how she wasn't able to reach her goal. I know he has helped her in the past but does anyone know if he stepped in this time? Not that it's place but I just wonder if he knew anything and if he did anything. He seemed genuinely shocked and distraught about her death when he found out before performing in Melbourne so I just wonder how much he knew or if he knew anything at all.

I was thinking about this after we spoke about it yesterday. I don't know when he arrived in Australia for his tour and whether he literally rocked up on the day or had been there for awhile. He may have been somewhere over the Pacific in transit when she was hospitalised and passed. In that case, he wouldn't have been able to talk to her even if they were in contact. He may have just stepped off the plane and been told she died.

Goddess4Real said:

Paxi said:

Hi everyone, I haven't been active on here in QUITE a while, I had to look up how long ago I joined and it's been 11 years! But I've been reading posts from you guys, as we deal with the loss of our Prince.

I have a story to share regarding Vanity. I was a writer with the D.C. City Paper back in 1997, and at that time Vanity (Denise) had become very active in her evangelism. She was coming to D.C. June 1st of that year to preach and I did a brief blurb to accompany the calendar event that went in the paper.

A portion of what I wrote follows:

"The Artist Formerly Known as Vanity" is now Denise Smith, and her past includes being the queen of nastiness and blatant sexuality, and the symbol man's lover and protegee during the early '80s. But too much partying, too much promiscuity, and way too much cocaine brought the diva to her knees and close to death. Rumor has it Smith's hearty drug abuse knocked her out of Prince's life and out of the role as his leading lady in Purple Rain. Now the sinner has been saved and is preaching against just such wicked ways in her newfound role as evangelist, proving nothing is stranger than real life."

Well...someone didn't like what I wrote. And that someone was Denise. She actually reached me at my newspaper office a couple of days after that piece was printed in the paper to tell me, "Your article is wrong! I left Prince, he didn't leave me!"

I was stunned. First off because it's Vanity on the phone. Like, really? This woman's photo was taped to my wall next to my many Prince posters when I was a kid. Now she's on the phone with me??

I apologized to her and the phone call ended up with an invitation for me to meet/interview her before her church event the following Sunday.

I met her in a hotel lobby (seriously) in Greenbelt, MD and she had her PR person waiting with her, I guess to make sure I wasn't crazy or something, and once we made our introductions, the PR lady left.

I won't go into the whole thing but I spent about 5 hours with her; the majority of it being her relaying passages from the Bible; sitting with me with her Bible, telling me, "Jesus is God. Jesus is God." Over and over. But the one moment that stood out was when we went to CVS beforehand to get something she needed. For whatever reason, I picked up a bottle of that Caress body wash and out of nowhere she goes, "I can't look at that. That reminds me of Prince."

I didn't get the story behind it, I didn't pry, but I'm saying to myself, "It's 1997 and she's still hung up on Prince?"

I tell this long story just to say that yes their love was timeless (I feel). I have ALWAYS felt that she was his number one. His true desire, his true love. Just think about how young they were when they dated! Like, 22/23 or something? How can you have a mature relationship at that age? And being in the music business on top of that? Did they even have a chance?

Denise was little. I'm 5'10" and I towered over her. She was 5'3", 5'4" maybe? I just remember saying to myself that she and Prince were made for each other because not only were they friggin' STUNNING, she was little too! Lol. I could never tell from photos how big or little she really was. And just as pretty as ever. She smelled really good too and when I asked her what she was wearing, she smiled and told me it was a secret, that she mixed two kinds of perfume together. I wish I'd been a little more nosey and found out. lol.

Anyway, I hope this little memory provides something for you all. I stayed on the phone with my Mom all evening when I got home from work the day Prince passed. We stayed up watching CNN and all the news specials on him. I told her, "Mom, maybe I sound crazy but I just find it odd that he passed so soon after Vanity. It just...it's weird to me." She got what I was saying, and I'm so relieved to see this thread, to know that others understood my thinking. I think many things contributed to our Prince leaving this Earth, but I really feel this was a strong element.

[Edited 5/27/16 19:10pm]

Great story about meeting Vanity/Denise do u have any pics?

[Edited 5/27/16 19:28pm]

A BIG THANK U FOR THAT

cng89 said:

beachy said:

well just remember his father actually did tell him to never get married (or he would lose his career like the father had)...

.

he was terrified of commitment for that reason, also because of his abandonment issues could not trust anyone, needed to control them...

.

he already had a harem started before Vanity arrived...(Moonsie, Jill Jones..)

.

and it was the 80s, everyone was supposed to be 'relaxed' about sex...

.

Vanity slept with others too...

.

it seems easy to solve this, but it wasn't. In the end I think Vanity was so beautiful that guys were hitting on her all the time, in front of prince, and this triggered his insecurities and kept him banging other girls to keep some kind of control of the situation...

You know, I think both of them were all over the place and a mess at that time. Young and a little stupid like the rest of us. I think Vanity scared him to be honest. She was not like any of those harem women, she was basically HIM with boobs and a uh, you know, lol. She was not someone who kept her mouth shut and let him take lead. He was afraid she would leave him and I think she was probably afraid he would leave her so she left first. It's not something simple to solve as you said and it's something that I can't quite put together all the way.

I think you said it very well.

.

and I forgot the big one, Prince set out to be a rockstar, so he was expected to have sex with lots of women. He also set out his identity as "embodying pure sex". That set up a conflict.

[Edited 5/27/16 19:48pm]

beachy said:

kellyna said:

Cng89 - I had a post on the previous pages where I was asking the same thing - did Prince know how very sick Denise was and had he talked to her recently. And I said that I thought that his emotional reaction when he got the news while in Australia, might have meant that her death had surprised him - that he hadn't expected it to happen. That while he knew that she was continually battling health issues, he might have assumed that she would once again beat the odds and live for years and years more. And one of the reasons he might have been so emotional is that he didn't really get the chance to say goodbye to her and to tell her just how much she meant to him and continued to mean to him.

I can only imagine how sad it would have made him if he had not spoken to or seen her in recent years - it would have made the loss of her even more profound and I'm sure he would be full of regret. Even though they weren't still involved, she was still someone that he cared about, someone that he had shared a very special part of his life with and I know if it were me I'd want to tell them that before they died.

Yeah I am sure he felt huge loss. I am not sure he would have galloped to her side to pour out his soul. I think guys are different in that way.

And anyway, he had. He wrote Adore. For whatever reason she didn't accept it. There's a line in WDC that says, Don't make me chase you, even doves have pride. By the way he acted from 1987 on, I got the impression he either felt rejected (because of her engagement choosing it over him) or he realized he wasn't ready to settle down anyway and went on one hell of a sex bender.

Yeah it's so interesting. I remember when I was listening to some of his songs after his death and I watched Purple Rain which was on television and that one line from WDC stood out for me as well - it was like don't make me beg you to stay with me or to take me back! Plus I think you're right he probably felt he put himself out there on more than one occasion after she left and she never really came back. We chatted on an earlier page, that we think he probably even made overtures after her overdose and she rejected her whole past life, including Prince. So how could he not feel rejected and alittle hurt and bitter about that. And then after she married, Prince must have felt at that point that any chances they had to reunite or be together was finished for good.

beachy said:

Paxi said:

Hi, no she didn't say she and Prince had spoken recently. I was trying so hard to be respectful but oh my gracious there were so many questions I wanted to ask! This was the closest I'd ever get to Prince! lol. It was very evident though, she still had strong feelings.

No, she didn't comment on her husband. Maybe she did but who cares, I was trying to hear about Prince! lol. But no, she didn't.

damn! any other details? did she say why or how she left him? any hint that she had seen him after Purple Rain, say in the late 80s or early 90s? that they considered getting back together?

We developed a sense in this thread that they definitely were in contact in 1987, because Nikki Sixx's book spoke of it...

We are really lacking any confirmed info after 1987 about what may have happened...

I realize she was busy preaching to you, girl had a mission... lol

Ha. Yes she did! She was too much, seriously. Lovely and sweet but she just was on it hard. She talked about having to have dialysis and relayed the whole story of basically dying and coming back when she was in the hospital. She really wanted to focus on who she was now. But low key, that whole life with Prince and what happened afterward were what brought people to her. People at the church service wanted to hear about Prince and she wasn't there for that. She was extreme but she was genuine. She knew "Vanity" brought people to hear her message but once you were in her presence, it was all about God and her trying to save as many people as she could. I respected her greatly for that.

SunnyGirl8 said:

cng89 said:

I have a question... Does anyone know if Prince and Denise talked just before she passed? Did he know just how close to death she was at the end? I have seen people mention her GoFundMe campaign and how she wasn't able to reach her goal. I know he has helped her in the past but does anyone know if he stepped in this time? Not that it's place but I just wonder if he knew anything and if he did anything. He seemed genuinely shocked and distraught about her death when he found out before performing in Melbourne so I just wonder how much he knew or if he knew anything at all.

I was thinking about this after we spoke about it yesterday. I don't know when he arrived in Australia for his tour and whether he literally rocked up on the day or had been there for awhile. He may have been somewhere over the Pacific in transit when she was hospitalised and passed. In that case, he wouldn't have been able to talk to her even if they were in contact. He may have just stepped off the plane and been told she died.

I feel like it happened so fast. He probably didn't know what the heck was going on.

kellyna said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

Hiya Kellyna sorry I missed this before. I'm listening on my computer - I'm not sure if you can listen in other ways. I know you can't rip a copy of the songs off of it though. If you just copy this link into a new webpage it should open up for you http://tidido.com/a351843...695/albums

I've just realised this link is pink so you should be able to click on it and it will open directly to the page then scroll down and click on whatever you want to listen to. If it's an album it will show all the tracks. If it's a single, you'll see that too. It's a bit of a mess the list as there are singles and albums on there and there seem to also be other artists with the same name. There's no registration needed.

[Edited 5/27/16 14:53pm]

[Edited 5/27/16 15:34pm]

Hi SunnyGirl,

Thanks for the tips. I have signed up for it and I have figured out how you can search for different songs and albums - I haven't figured out how you can as you say "rip a song or download it to your computer."

No problem. If you do find out how to take a copy of the songs could you let me know? Thanks

cng89 said:

beachy said:

Yeah I am sure he felt huge loss. I am not sure he would have galloped to her side to pour out his soul. I think guys are different in that way.

And anyway, he had. He wrote Adore. For whatever reason she didn't accept it. There's a line in WDC that says, Don't make me chase you, even doves have pride. By the way he acted from 1987 on, I got the impression he either felt rejected (because of her engagement choosing it over him) or he realized he wasn't ready to settle down anyway and went on one hell of a sex bender.

I think Denise knew he wouldn't change back then. That superstar lifestyle always seems to break couples especially young ones. The fame really changed Prince I think and Denise wasn't the one to take the new Prince. All those women coming and going was really disrespectful and it was like he didn't even try to hide them from her. I think she would have stayed if he could keep it in his pants but then again, in the 90s and 00s he was still messing around it seems. Mayte and Manuela anyone?

Well her comment in the 1985 People Magazine interview says it all, "I needed one person to love me, and he needed more." She knew he wouldn't change and she wasn't about to be one of his harem of women. And you're right by all account, Prince was rarely loyal to any woman, including his wives. For sure right up to the time he married Mayte and people have guessed that maybe infidelity was part of the reason his second marriage also failed.

cng89 said:

kellyna said:

Hey Pax,

Thanks for sharing that Vanity story. I enjoyed that even after turning to religion there was still that fiestiness in her personality to say "hey Prince didn't break up with me, I left him" - ha! I think it was in 1997 or 1998 that she also said that "Prince was the only man that she had ever really loved" so she never denied his feelings for him and by all accounts she loved him till the day she died.

And you're right not only were the two of them gorgeous together, I remember people who saw them in person together noting what a "completely striking couple they were" but they were like the perfect "pocket sized couple" - ha!

A number of us on this thread mentioned that we were surprised by how many former friends / associates of Prince referenced Vanity after Prince died and the coincidence of them passing away so close to each other and that's what started this whole thread and discussion.

Kellyna, I am cracking up at 'pocket sized couple', LMAOOO!

Well it fits don't you think?

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

wow Paxi thanks for the info. Yes it fits! She's saying Jesus is God. I believe the JW do not believe that.

.

Abut the Caress. From the lyrics to Prince's songs written at the time he was together with Vanity, they all have the bathing references. Even WDC video has him in a bathtub, getting out and extending his hand (to her...). Perhaps Caress was one of the washes they used together!

.

WDC says 'Don't make me chase you, even doves have pride...'

I have this sense that Denise left him and he was incredibly hurt by it. And perhaps a little bitter.

.

Did she say she had talked to him in the near past? Did she say anything about why she married that man Smith?

THAT answers the obsession with the shower and the bathing! Nice connection Beachy.

.

I always felt that WDC was about her leaving him and someone pointed out the vanity mirror he is standing in front of and the mirror split screen. I think it was 30yearfan.

I never noticed that until this thread but WDC ha mirrors and the duplicity- I will never view it or hear it the same again

Paxi said:

Hi guys, here is the link to the blurb. I never wrote a follow up article.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/arts/article/13013184/denise-smith

The posting date that it was saved in the online archives was 2007 but the event was in 1997.

[Edited 5/27/16 19:40pm]

Thank you for this!!!

SunnyGirl8 said:

kellyna said:

Hi SunnyGirl,

Thanks for the tips. I have signed up for it and I have figured out how you can search for different songs and albums - I haven't figured out how you can as you say "rip a song or download it to your computer."

No problem. If you do find out how to take a copy of the songs could you let me know? Thanks

Sure - will do, but I'm beginning to think you actually can't do that - that it only allows you to listen to it.

beachy said:

Paxi said:

You're most welcome guys! Thanks for reading. I've been holding on to that story a long time. Talked about it but never wrote it. Things just are not the same with them both gone. You don't really think about them in any overly significant way when you know they're here sharing the planet with you, but now that they are BOTH gone, it just feels like a massive part of my childhood and fun times were taken with them. Just ain't the same.

Paxi we feel the same. Most of us have been camping on this thread for the last month trying to work through our sorrow. When Vanity died it was like getting socked in the gut. Such a beautiful creature, I couldn't believe she was gone. Then to lose Prince just 2 months later nearly did me in. I've cried buckets since. My only comfort has been to reconstruct their love affair. I don't know why, but it somehow seemed a spiritual undertaking. I don't expect other people to understand it, because I don't understand it either.

Beachy and friends! Probably our fellow orgers think we're crazy going on beyond 50 pages, but there is something to this story that helps in our grieving.

beachy said:

Paxi said:

You're most welcome guys! Thanks for reading. I've been holding on to that story a long time. Talked about it but never wrote it. Things just are not the same with them both gone. You don't really think about them in any overly significant way when you know they're here sharing the planet with you, but now that they are BOTH gone, it just feels like a massive part of my childhood and fun times were taken with them. Just ain't the same.

Paxi we feel the same. Most of us have been camping on this thread for the last month trying to work through our sorrow. When Vanity died it was like getting socked in the gut. Such a beautiful creature, I couldn't believe she was gone. Then to lose Prince just 2 months later nearly did me in. I've cried buckets since. My only comfort has been to reconstruct their love affair. I don't know why, but it somehow seemed a spiritual undertaking. I don't expect other people to understand it, because I don't understand it either.

I am on this thread and I don't understand it but I appreciate all the info you shared - I know I said it before but it is therapeutic and helps me work through the mourning , the profound loss

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

wow Paxi thanks for the info. Yes it fits! She's saying Jesus is God. I believe the JW do not believe that.

.

Abut the Caress. From the lyrics to Prince's songs written at the time he was together with Vanity, they all have the bathing references. Even WDC video has him in a bathtub, getting out and extending his hand (to her...). Perhaps Caress was one of the washes they used together!

.

WDC says 'Don't make me chase you, even doves have pride...'

I have this sense that Denise left him and he was incredibly hurt by it. And perhaps a little bitter.

.

Did she say she had talked to him in the near past? Did she say anything about why she married that man Smith?

THAT answers the obsession with the shower and the bathing! Nice connection Beachy.

.

I always felt that WDC was about her leaving him and someone pointed out the vanity mirror he is standing in front of and the mirror split screen. I think it was 30yearfan.

After that discussion on this thread I went back and watched WDC on mute and it was like watching a whole new vid; the vanity mirror as someone pointed out and the duplicity-this thread has given a whole new outlook to alot of his vids and lyrics

beachy said:

Paxi said:

Hi guys, here is the link to the blurb. I never wrote a follow up article.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/arts/article/13013184/denise-smith

The posting date that it was saved in the online archives was 2007 but the event was in 1997.

[Edited 5/27/16 19:40pm]

Thank you for this!!!

You're welcome, beachy!

Vashtix said:

beachy said:

Paxi we feel the same. Most of us have been camping on this thread for the last month trying to work through our sorrow. When Vanity died it was like getting socked in the gut. Such a beautiful creature, I couldn't believe she was gone. Then to lose Prince just 2 months later nearly did me in. I've cried buckets since. My only comfort has been to reconstruct their love affair. I don't know why, but it somehow seemed a spiritual undertaking. I don't expect other people to understand it, because I don't understand it either.

I am on this thread and I don't understand it but I appreciate all the info you shared - I know I said it before but it is therapeutic and helps me work through the mourning , the profound loss

Me too - honestly I've become addicted to this thread. I need to check in pretty much everyday to see what new information we uncovered and new theories we are discussing!

Vashtix said:

purplegirl00 said:

THAT answers the obsession with the shower and the bathing! Nice connection Beachy.

.

I always felt that WDC was about her leaving him and someone pointed out the vanity mirror he is standing in front of and the mirror split screen. I think it was 30yearfan.

I never noticed that until this thread but WDC ha mirrors and the duplicity- I will never view it or hear it the same again

Now if we could just figure out why she picked the name Samuelle for Prince!