paisleypunk said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

I agree. Who they were as individuals and all the experiences that shaped them, and their combination resulted in an amazing soundtrack that will resonate for a very long time.

[Edited 5/25/16 5:55am]

Them processing their trauma/childhoods would not have stemmed any creativity but it would have perhaps saved them from self-destruction/sadness, especially Denise from acting out fatally trying to numb with hardcore drugs....I don't want music if someone has to live a life racked with pain and suffering just so I can hear their creativity...they could have gotten help and still been just as creative...not mutually exclusive

Don't get me wrong, I think it's sad what happened to them and I don't mean to trivialise that. Their lives could have been fundamentally different, particularly, Denise who nearly died and lived with the health impacts for years. And of course, he could have still been writing songs for her. It's just that this was their path.

[Edited 5/25/16 9:14am]

kellyna said:

beachy said:

i could be way off here, reading stuff into it, but i can't shake that song Revelation. It also seems to come from another dimension. That's a recent song, from the last record.

I haven't had a chance to listen to Revelation yet, but I will tonight when I get home. What year was it written / recorded? If nothing else, this thread is making me seek out all these Prince tunes I wasn't familiar with and made me listen to them in a whole new way - it's wonderful!!

Well, get ready. It is a spell inducing, hypnotic song. I think the best way to listen is on earphones- just you and the song. It's on Prince's most recently released album (December 2015) HitNRun Phase 2. I don't know when the song itself was written but it is new.

tak3m3withU said:

paisleypunk said:

Isn't that so sad...he admitted that he needed to control bc of his fear of losing someone...and they were still pretty young and dealing with fame is a heady mix...I think if they had reconnected at a more mature point in their lives, after he sowed most of his rockstar oats as it were and if she had gotten a handle on her trauma and its effects...if she hadn't gotten more deeply hooked on hardcore drugs w skank Sixx, etc...they may have had a chance...despite all of it, they STILL never fell out of love...amazing if you think about it..it's like a Shakespearean tragedy

[Edited 5/24/16 22:14pm]

Speaking of Shakespearean, I've always wondered how much control if any he had over his music appearing in movie soundtracks. Oddly, WDC does appear in the 1996 remake of Romeo +. Juliet. I just always thought wow, here we have one of the most tragic love stories mixed with his own tragic love story. Prince was one of the most, if not THE most, protective over his music.

That's really interesting. I would think that, like most artists, he had the final say over that permission. I'm a bit of a Shakespeare buff as well, and that play of course is about lovers that through a sequence of events and miscues, did not end up together in this life. It starts with the family opposition but then a whole lot of misunderstandings. (not saying he put this in the movie to send a message because it was decided probably on 2 reasons, one that it was appropriate use of song for high quality production, and two for commercial reasons ie to make some money)

.

Again this is a bit of a leap to connect directly but the same idea he mentions in Strange but True, where he said

.

"No regrets because I forget the unfamiliar faces
Those petty lies and alibis, just gold diggas chasing
Dreams of sovereignty, they tried to come between you and me
A curse therein set forces a chain of events
That only freed me when I remembered"

[Edited 5/25/16 9:57am]

The other thread mentions and speaks about the rainbow over PP....that was wonderful...home at last, I think...xx

I think PR was important to Prince not just because of Vanity but the stuff he was trying to work out with his father. This photo looks like its from the early 80s but to me when you look at Prince's face he looks so happy to be with his father, his eyes are lit up.

[img:$uid]http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a477/hyperboly/Prince%20and%20his%20father%20early%2080s_zpsl0wmzsap.jpg[/img:$uid]

[Edited 5/25/16 9:19am]

paisleypunk said:

The other thread mentions and speaks about the rainbow over PP....that was wonderful...home at last, I think...xx

I remember hearing/ seeing that he did a mashup of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" with another song in one of the Melbourne shows. Anyone remember this in this thread or somewhere else? I'm going to go see if I can find the list of songs he did.

Hmmm, I guess they removed my thread with the reading..I hope it didn't break any rules, I didn't share it for any other reason than to give some measure of comfort to those in sorrow and missing him....and wasn't like those that are exploiting his memory...I like to believe he reached the highest dimension and is in joy and peace..xx

kellyna said:

30yearfan said:

You know that's a really deep thought. She has said that Prince was like a father to her. I think that the intensity of their deep connection probably scared both of them. She said that they were so close that it was scary. She said they would wake up and realize they had dreamed the same dream. The lyrics to the song Girl (b side) talk about how frightened he was by how intensely he was feeling about her. And for those people who say how do you know the song is about her, she is actually singing/speaking on the song if you play it backwards. (I've heard it myself and it's verified on Princevault.com) I think she did worship him and it probably was a huge turn on for him. I think that when she became a Christian, which is around the time Orgasm came out, he might have been jealous that she loved something more than him. When they were together he probably cheated on her as a defense mechanism if that makes any sense. His greatest fear is that she would leave him as we can see in the powerful song WDC, perhaps subconsciously he probably wanted to beat her to the punch by cheating and protecting himself emotionally if she left. It didn't help cause when she left he was devastated.

I think this hits the nail on the head as I could never understand why Prince would mess around with so many other women when he clearly loved Vanity very deeply. But I think you're on to soemthing here - their link, their bond was so strong, so passionate that it probably overwhelmed both of them. Prince didn't like that it made him feel vulnerable caring for Vanity so much, so to offset it he messed around with other women. What he didn't count on, is that it really played on Vanity's insecurities and made her doubt that she was really special to Prince. And when she walked away from him, she was hurt. She was hurt by his cheating, by the way he tried to control her, by him not supporting her career fully (if it's correct that she wanted to do the movie with Scorsese and still be with Prince, but he gave her an ultimatium) and hurt by her belief that she alone would never be enough for him and he would never change. Later when Prince realizes how special she was and tried to win her back, he didn't realize how much damage he had already done. By then they both still loved each other, but really didn't trust each other and to Vanity it must have seemed like Prince wanted to have his cake and eat it too. Honestly if a guy is begging you to come back, but won't stop seeing other women what would you think?

kelly I hadn't heart that version before, do you remember where you read it?

purplegirl00 said:

paisleypunk said:

The other thread mentions and speaks about the rainbow over PP....that was wonderful...home at last, I think...xx

I remember hearing/ seeing that he did a mashup of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" with another song in one of the Melbourne shows. Anyone remember this in this thread or somewhere else? I'm going to go see if I can find the list of songs he did.

OMG he played this in the first show at Oakland after Vanity's funeral and talks to his father,

.

(well?) going Daddy?

What do you mean, don't talk to you?

What do you mean?

I love you. I want to be just like you.

.

After we saw the president die

and forgot about the american dream

my mother and father started fighting

and eventually he left, leaving me with the piano..

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

I remember hearing/ seeing that he did a mashup of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" with another song in one of the Melbourne shows. Anyone remember this in this thread or somewhere else? I'm going to go see if I can find the list of songs he did.

OMG he played this in the first show at Oakland after Vanity's funeral and talks to his father,

.

(well?) going Daddy?

What do you mean, don't talk to you?

What do you mean?

I love you. I want to be just like you.

.

After we saw the president die

and forgot about the american dream

my mother and father started fighting

and eventually he left, leaving me with the piano..

There it is! I thought it was Melbourne. Ugh... this man.. the flood gates of emotions came out like roaring rapids.

[Edited 5/25/16 9:39am]

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

OMG he played this in the first show at Oakland after Vanity's funeral and talks to his father,

.

(well?) going Daddy?

What do you mean, don't talk to you?

What do you mean?

I love you. I want to be just like you.

.

After we saw the president die

and forgot about the american dream

my mother and father started fighting

and eventually he left, leaving me with the piano..

There it is! I thought it was Melbourne. Ugh... this man.. the flood gates of emotions came out like roaring rapids.

[Edited 5/25/16 9:39am]

AS tuned in and spiritually aware, not to mention intelligent, as Prince was, it makes sense that he would be thinking deeply about everything as his health was diminishing, nothing like a near death experience to put everything in perspective...I'm sure he was overviewing his life and those that mattered most to him...

paisleypunk said:

purplegirl00 said:

There it is! I thought it was Melbourne. Ugh... this man.. the flood gates of emotions came out like roaring rapids.

[Edited 5/25/16 9:39am]

AS tuned in and spiritually aware, not to mention intelligent, as Prince was, it makes sense that he would be thinking deeply about everything as his health was diminishing, nothing like a near death experience to put everything in perspective...I'm sure he was overviewing his life and those that mattered most to him...

He played it in the second show on Feb 16t in melbourne too but I don't have that. If anybody else does, please send me a note.

endiadj said:

a lot of talk about his father and his relationship with him. what was his relationship like with his mother and did he talk about her much?

What little I have seen, his parents split up when he was young, his dad may have been physically abusive to Prince...his mother remarried shortly after, his father threw him out @ 13 for being with a girl in his home...he bounced to mother but didn't get along with his stepfather...he said he remembered calling his dad from a phonebooth @ 12-13? crying, begging to come home but his dad wouldn't let him, he said he stayed int he booth for 2 hours crying and he never cried again after that......Cyr 's mother and family took him in....thank god for that...or we may never have gotten the man he became...a shout out to Cyr's mom!

I also saw him say in one interview that 'they' tried to get him to grow up and move out quickly by bombarding him w playboy and sex mags, etc early, he said it was 'heavy' and had an effect on him........explains why so much of his early work was so hyper sexualized...

[Edited 5/25/16 9:50am]

beachy said:

kellyna said:

I think this hits the nail on the head as I could never understand why Prince would mess around with so many other women when he clearly loved Vanity very deeply. But I think you're on to soemthing here - their link, their bond was so strong, so passionate that it probably overwhelmed both of them. Prince didn't like that it made him feel vulnerable caring for Vanity so much, so to offset it he messed around with other women. What he didn't count on, is that it really played on Vanity's insecurities and made her doubt that she was really special to Prince. And when she walked away from him, she was hurt. She was hurt by his cheating, by the way he tried to control her, by him not supporting her career fully (if it's correct that she wanted to do the movie with Scorsese and still be with Prince, but he gave her an ultimatium) and hurt by her belief that she alone would never be enough for him and he would never change. Later when Prince realizes how special she was and tried to win her back, he didn't realize how much damage he had already done. By then they both still loved each other, but really didn't trust each other and to Vanity it must have seemed like Prince wanted to have his cake and eat it too. Honestly if a guy is begging you to come back, but won't stop seeing other women what would you think?

kelly I hadn't heart that version before, do you remember where you read it?

It was earlier on this thread and I was just paraphrasing what someone else posted, I don't recall if it was based on fact or it the poster was just surmising. Let me see if I can find it and I'll repost it.

endiadj said:

a lot of talk about his father and his relationship with him. what was his relationship like with his mother and did he talk about her much?

someone had a link to an article from 2007 written by the editor of Jet I think earlier in this thread. It also spoke about Vanity. His mom basically married another guy who was strict and wouldn't let him play music as much as he wanted to, so Prince left and went to his father's. The mom didn't really give him much but her wish was that he become a JW and right before she died he did. His mom was a basketball player too. He seems to be consciously fixated on pleasing his father but for sure influenced by his mother.

kellyna said:

beachy said:

kelly I hadn't heart that version before, do you remember where you read it?

It was earlier on this thread and I was just paraphrasing what someone else posted, I don't recall if it was based on fact or it the poster was just surmising. Let me see if I can find it and I'll repost it.

Wasn't Vanity also cheating as well though? They both were just trying to protect their hearts but also acting out like crazy and hurting each other...I read she had slept w/ Magnoli and a couple others, and was flirting w the bass player but Prince blocked that one...

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

There actually are some rumours that Prince and Vanity were off and on after the breakup in 83.

In 1985 Vanity told someone on a talk show that they were together off and on for 2 1/2 years. The official timeline has them together for only 1 1/2.

In Nikki Sixx autobiography he says he went to her apartment in Jan 1987 and it was filled with roses and a card said "Drop him. Take me back. Prince," . Prince had just spent a week in LA recording and this was right after. That summer in June Vanity meets Nikki in Minneapolis for his concert but stays behind to see Prince who was in town finishing the SOTT movie. Nikki breaks up with her shortly thereafter and I wondered whether it was because there was still some back and forth with Prince.

She did an interview around 2007 where she said they still spoke on the phone occasionally.

There are alot of parallels in their lives which I spoke about in another thread on strange symmetries.

But it always seemed like Vanity was one step ahead of him, leading him, as it were. She left him first, renounced her nname first, renounced the Hollywood lifestyle, found religion first, got married first, got divorced first, etc. She was like the moon, exerting a pull on him, or perhaps like a star, guiding him.

He of course may have, in his mind, written her off, and kept himself distracted with younger women, lots of them. They never lasted either. It doesn't mean that she had no effect on him over the years. There seems to have been alot of influence, either that or big coincidences.

According to this article, his friends thought he was depressed over Vanity's death.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/arts/music/friends-sought-help-for-princes-addiction-lawyer-says.html?_r=0

[Edited 5/9/16 20:07pm]

ALL so true.

I saw that interview and she said her and Prince were together off and on for 2 and a half years and yes the Nikki Sixx book did state Prince was still trying to get her back yeeeeears later.

He still wanted her, he loved her and she kept walking away..she got so messed up after she met Nikki..not blaming him..she was already doing drugs, she admitted that, but things changed a lot for her then, Prince did want her to take him back though, more than once.

Thats why he wrote The Beautiful Ones for her, she had just left him the first time...right when Purple Rain was being written and rehearsels were happening, he was heartbroken.

She said in an interview, she wasn't going to get paid!!! She was expected to do itall for free. And Berry Gordy (Motown) offered her a million dollar MUSIC AND MOVIE DEAL she said...and Prince said she couldn't have both....she had to make a difficult choice and he was heartbroken (she said she was heartbroken as well) because she wanted an actual career, not just run around in her underwear singing. She wanted the Motown contract ANNNNND still wanted to stay with Prince, but he made her chose.

I did also read they kept in touch by phone after she became ill and was told she only had 3 days to live...he did love her!!!!!!

Thanks so much for the link about what his friends said

Hey Beachy - this was the post that I was referring to - that's why I said that it sounded like Prince basically gave her an ultimatium.

paisleypunk said:

kellyna said:

It was earlier on this thread and I was just paraphrasing what someone else posted, I don't recall if it was based on fact or it the poster was just surmising. Let me see if I can find it and I'll repost it.

Wasn't Vanity also cheating as well though? They both were just trying to protect their hearts but also acting out like crazy and hurting each other...I read she had slept w/ Magnoli and a couple others, and was flirting w the bass player but Prince blocked that one...

Yes that's true, but was it only after she realized that Prince was messing around with others while he was 'supposedly" with her. Others have noted that they were very close and together alot the first year they were together, then it changed by the end of the 1999 Tour. I think they both didn't realize how much harm they were doing to each other with their actions, they both could make each other jealous and it just ended up feeding their insecurities instead of making them closer. I always wondered that if Prince hated seeing Vanity with other men, why he wouldn't think the same was true for her when she saw him with other women?!!

thanks alot kelly

kellyna said:

paisleypunk said:

Wasn't Vanity also cheating as well though? They both were just trying to protect their hearts but also acting out like crazy and hurting each other...I read she had slept w/ Magnoli and a couple others, and was flirting w the bass player but Prince blocked that one...

Yes that's true, but was it only after she realized that Prince was messing around with others while he was 'supposedly" with her. Others have noted that they were very close and together alot the first year they were together, then it changed by the end of the 1999 Tour. I think they both didn't realize how much harm they were doing to each other with their actions, they both could make each other jealous and it just ended up feeding their insecurities instead of making them closer. I always wondered that if Prince hated seeing Vanity with other men, why he wouldn't think the same was true for her when she saw him with other women?!!

I wonder this too. Maybe he thought she was the stronger one or maybe he thought she wasn't as in love with him as he was with her because she left him. Then I think it turned into a weapon for both to use against each other.

What's interesting to me is that a lot of times, men who mess around and are womanizers have a close bond with their mom or have been traumatized by them in some way, but Prince didn't seem to have been close with his mom -it seems he was all about his dad. He didn't seem to be close at all t her.

This is by no means to give him a pass, but he was still pretty young and becoming a major rockstar, name one rockstar , male or female, who is monogamous at that point in their career...I can't even imagine how many women, men, dogs, cats, lol were throwing themselves at him, and her as well....too bad they miscommunicated and acted out...if they had given it some time to settle down or had realized they meant the most to each otehr...... maybe they could have been together...like someone posted, it was a series of things...star-crossed lovers...he was devastated when she left him ...and later sent the note trying to get her to take him back...they just needed to put on grown-up pants but never seemed to be able to, they just kept feeling the hurt they inflicted on the other bc neither understood what was really going on...just all reactions and defense mechanisms to keep from getting hurt..

[Edited 5/25/16 10:46am]

Beachy, Revelation will NOT leave my mind. I read in a thread here where people were talking about it back in December with it's release that Adore was the wedding song and Revelation, the vow renewal song. That's an interesting take.

double post.

[Edited 5/25/16 10:48am]

purplegirl00 said:

Beachy, Revelation will NOT leave my mind. I read in a thread here where people were talking about it back in December with it's release that Adore was the wedding song and Revelation, the vow renewal song. That's an interesting take.

can anyone please post the lyrics? I don't have the song, which is just as well bc I just finally stopped bursting into tears with every time I hear him sing... xx

scriptgirl said:

What's interesting to me is that a lot of times, men who mess around and are womanizers have a close bond with their mom or have been traumatized by them in some way, but Prince didn't seem to have been close with his mom -it seems he was all about his dad. He didn't seem to be close at all t her.

I think it was both, his mom subconsciously, bc she abandoned him in a way by leaving the home and remarried to someone who he didn't get along with and it may have seemed she chose the stepdad over him......so part of his need to control was to prevent that loss of anyone leaving him from happening again, or choosing someone else instead.....he's admitted that's why he felt the need to control........he may have wanted to emulate his dad, but just bc he didn't seem close with his mother doesn't mean her departure didn't deeply affect him, she was still his mother and she left...to be with another man soon after..(no shade on mom, this is just to show how the loss may have affected Prince)..I do wish both his parents had nurtured him a bit more or prioritized their child's feelings more..

[Edited 5/25/16 10:54am]

[Edited 5/25/16 10:57am]

[Edited 5/25/16 11:01am]

paisleypunk said:

purplegirl00 said:

Beachy, Revelation will NOT leave my mind. I read in a thread here where people were talking about it back in December with it's release that Adore was the wedding song and Revelation, the vow renewal song. That's an interesting take.

can anyone please post the lyrics? I don't have the song, which is just as well bc I just finally stopped bursting into tears with every time I hear him sing... xx

"Revelation"

Revelation [x2]

It's coming back to me now You and I were meant to be together (hands down)

Revelation [x2]

It seems like you've always been here, Now that you are, stay with me forever my dear

Revelation [x2]

If ever (if ever), there was ever such a thing as time, oh baby It's useless, so useless to me now

For in your arms is everything, in your arms, everything

An army of haters, one by one will do what they will to everyone but the task at hand until I see the sun is to keep doing you until you cum, to revelation (revelation...)

(Can I play with it now?)

It's all coming back to me now, like it was deep in the ocean

I'll beat me sword into a plow, and share a heavenly potion with my future queen...

Half east, half west, the truth's somewhere; lest inbetween

Through English glamour, casting a spell

Though Hebrew, Greek and Roman hell higher 'til we understand, the colour of the Pharoah's hand (the colour of the Pharoah's hand...)

[Edited 5/25/16 10:58am]

purplegirl00 said:

paisleypunk said:

can anyone please post the lyrics? I don't have the song, which is just as well bc I just finally stopped bursting into tears with every time I hear him sing... xx

"Revelation" Revelation [x2] It's coming back to me now You and I were meant to be together (hands down) Revelation [x2] It seems like you've always been here, Now that you are, stay with me forever my dear Revelation [x2] If ever (if ever), there was ever such a thing as time, oh baby It's useless, so useless to me now For in your arms is everything, in your arms, everything An army of haters, one by one will do what they will to everyone but the task at hand until I see the sun is to keep doing you until you cum, to revelation (revelation...) (Can I play with it now?) It's all coming back to me now, like it was deep in the ocean I'll beat me sword into a plow, and share a heavenly potion with my future queen... Half east, half west, the truth's somewhere; lest inbetween Through English glamour, casting a spell Though Hebrew, Greek and Roman hell higher 'til we understand, the colour of the Pharoah's hand (the colour of the Pharoah's hand...)

ty!!! xx

kellyna said:

beachy said:

kelly I hadn't heart that version before, do you remember where you read it?

It was earlier on this thread and I was just paraphrasing what someone else posted, I don't recall if it was based on fact or it the poster was just surmising. Let me see if I can find it and I'll repost it.

You may aware this already - This article mentions the Scorcese film and how it got delayed by financing but not the Prince ultimatum.

http://www.spin.com/2016/04/prince-the-oral-history-of-purple-rain-brian-raftery/