SunnyGirl8 said:

I’ve just joined this forum as I’ve been fascinated by this thread. Thanks, you’ve provided a comfort as his death has had an effect on me that I didn’t expect. I followed his music and have been to his gigs but I never really paid that much attention to his personal life and you can now see what a huge driver it was to his songwriting. This post relates to 1986/87 re Vanity, Prince and Nikki Sixx and the song, Adore. No offence is intended.

Prince dedicated Adore to Vanity at the Melbourne concert. That’s very telling. It’s a declaration of love song, it has personal references and it’s obviously about her. It would appear that he was pursuing her at the time Adore was written/released in 86/87, which isn’t surprising, particularly given the nature of the song. And it worked. Nikki and Vanity broke up and the marriage didn’t go ahead. How real that engagement was who knows? The engagement may have just been a way to mislead the press, muddy the waters and defuse any speculation re who Adore’s about, and if that was the case, Nikki was just a pawn in the drama going down between Vanity and Prince. It would also appear that Vanity was trying to deflect the press in September 1987 by going to Nikki’s to continue the pretence that they were still engaged on the night that Prince was performing in LA and that this has obviously angered Nikki as they are no longer together and he suspects she’s with Prince, so he punches her in the face, knocks her out and dumps her outside.

At the same time, the Paisley Park build is completed and by October, Prince is recording love songs (When 2 R In Love) and then he decides he doesn’t want to release a ‘dark’ album (The Black Album) he wants to write LoveSexy instead.

All of this raises the question of whether Prince and Vanity got back together then and it would appear they did. For how long is unknown. Between July 1987 until her marriage on Mar 26, 1995, everyone they’re linked to could just be spin (pure speculation/fiction/press manipulation/media diversion) as a cover for them so they can keep their independence, privacy and have an arrangement/relationship that suits them. Most of these people are work colleagues after all. Maybe her drug use at that time has nothing to do with Prince or him being unfaithful either, but instead, she has a habit and it’s a heavy part of the scene she’s in. Really anything could have been going on with Prince and Vanity over the years…and it may not be what many have been led to believe.

I also think he started to be more open before he died because they covered their tracks too well and that’s not how he wants his relationship with Denise to be remembered. He loved her. He wants her to be more closely associated with him. I guess his book ‘The Beautiful Ones’ (if it comes out) will shed more light.

Adore:
-Adore was recorded in LA on Nov 19, 1986. It’s about Vanity and his love for her.
-Prince was pursuing Vanity behind the scenes in Jan 1987 and asking her to come back to him (per Nikki’s book)
-Adore was released on the album Sign O’ The Times on Mar 31, 1987. Adore got major radio play (it’s #2 on a ranking of Prince’s best songs by AOL Radio) but it wasn’t released as a single/promo which in of itself is unusual, as why wouldn’t you be making this a single if there’s a huge demand for it? It was clearly a personal song and there was no desire to turn it into a ‘commercial’ hit. Also, being such a popular song and album and with his profile, there’d have to be speculation in the press about who the song was about too - I’d imagine that would fall heavily on Vanity as she was more accessible to the media and she seemed to be the go-to-girl for all matters regarding Prince as he often wouldn’t talk.
-Vanity proposes to Nikki in April 1987. Their engagement is kept a secret.
-Prince does the Sign O’ The Times Tour in Europe May 8-June 29, 1987. Adore’s performed once on 29/5/87.
-In June, Vanity’s engagement to Nikki is leaked to the press.
-In July, Vanity goes to MPLS for Nikki’s gig. Nikki leaves (he’s on tour) and she stays in MPLS. Nikki assumes she’ll hook up with Prince. Prince is in MPLS. W Bros and Prince’s management want Prince to extend to a world tour and he refuses. He says he wants to go into the studio and record his new album.
-26 Aug Nikki breaks up with Vanity over the phone. When the press finds out is unknown but presumably when they fight in September it’s still not public knowledge
-Adore was played in 80 sets in 87/88/89 (29/5/87, 18/11/87 and 1988/89 LoveSexy tour). It’s reintroduced into his setlist across 96/97/98 and is played in it’s heaviest rotation (101 sets) from Nov 21 1996 thru 1997 to Dec 15 1998. It pops up on and off from then and is included in 2002 One Nite Alone, 2004 Musicology, 2011 Welcome2America and the final 2016 tours.

The Black Album:
-It was recorded as a compilation of individual ‘dark’ tracks (as opposed to a thematic album) between Sept 1986-Mar 1987.
-In Oct 1997, Prince revisits The Black Album and records the final song for the album at PP ‘When 2 R In Love’. It’s very different to the other tracks - it’s a love song. The album is then prepared for release.
-On Dec 1st, The Black Album is shelved. When 2 R in Love goes into the LoveSexy Album. The rest of the LoveSexy Album was recorded mid Dec 1987-late Jan 1988.

Thanks Beachy for the timeline info in Reply#547

Wow. All very interesting indeed. I, along, with many on here, are with you in that there was some sort of on-going relationship between them behind the scenes.

.

One of her appearances on Joan Rivers in 1986, nontheless, she is wearing ALL BLACK. I wonder if that is some subliminal message dealing with Prince's Black Album . I put the link below. Pay close attention when Joan asks her (around 2:15), "Are you in the middle of a romance now?" and she says,"Oh yeah" and she gets all giggly. Joan asks,"and is it as good as with Prince?" then she says replies, "it's wonderful". Joan asks "what was it like with Prince?" and she replies, "He was a romantic, quite a romantic." THEN she either says, "It's wonderful" or "He's wonderful". In either case both are in the PRESENT tense, not the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfPrak5LvDE

beachy said:

beachy said:

Sunnygirl welcome and thanks for filling in details. I'm glad this thread is helping others with their grief too.

If Prince recorded Adore in LA in Nov, then had an awful Thanksgiving with Susannah and Rogers, then Susannah moved back to LA in Dec, I wonder if their breakup had to do with him pursuing Vanity even earlier than Jan maybe in Nov. Just speculating, but would explain the effort to make Vanity invisible historically. Might have been humiliating for SM. The song Wally might have been about Vanity not SM.

The lines about 'you own my heart and mind' (after she said she didn't know who owned his heart) and about her beauty seem to fit Vanity precisely. And the way he dwelled on the song in Melbourne while paying tribute to her confirmed for me.

I wondered if her engagement drove him nuts. She went on Arsenio Hall in June 87 and flashed that huge diamond ring. We know even from other relationships with women that he could not tolerate his girl showing any interest in another guy. Maybe that is why he went into his really black period. It looks to me that for some reason it didn't work out between them. Maybe his jealousy got in the way. Remember SM was seen at his gig in MPLS in Sept. Either she was there on her own trying to woo him back or out of jealousy to Vanity's engagement Prince invited her there. It was also the time PP had just been finished.

I interpreted his dark mood of 87 as being a reaction to her engagement plus a frustration with the bad reviews on UTCM and financial problems. Nothing seemed to be going well.

[Edited 5/24/16 7:11am]

Hi Beachy
You’d assume for him to be writing Adore there has to be some kind of backstory going on with Vanity. What that it is, I don’t know. It could just be maturity and they are both growing up and have a clearer perspective of what they want. The UTCM wording or was it the Parade album (I think you posted) looks to indicate that his perspective is changing.

The same goes for the Black Album. I’m not sure. It could be a reflection of his state of mind. Or it could be that he’s uncertain how Vanity will respond and he’s aware of her impact on him so he’s preparing the next album in advance and leaving one song to be written closer to the release. This would give him leeway - if she plays with his head and things don’t work out with her, he’s probably worried all his songs for the next album will come out like ‘Nothing Compares 2 U’!

[Edited 5/25/16 5:11am]

RE The thanksgiving that Prince spent with Susannah, who is this Rogers person?

Anyway I just want to talk about the whole Nikki Sixx thing. Nikki himself said they were engaged. Why he has tried to deny it, I have no idea, but he said it. At the time I found out, this was 1988 and Action Jackson was getting ready to come out and I busied myself buying all the mags that had Vanity in them to promote the film.

I was also really into heavy metal and I remember being in Rite Aid and flipping through a magazine and was shocked to see a pic of Nikki with Vanity and the accompanying quote from HIM was that they were engaged. What magazine it was, I don't know, but it was also mentioned and confirmed by him-in a roundabout way-but one of the biggest metal mags out there, Circus. And they would not have misquoted him or printed anything untrue about Nikki. Nikki was the spokesman and business head of Motley Crue and he had very, very close relationships with all those metal magazines at the time.

Now here where it gets interesting-as far as I know, the black press never really reported Vanity's engagement-at least not in print. I don't think Jet-and they had Vanity of on the cover to promote Action Jackson-reported it or if they did so, it was way after the fact. I think the black press just turned a blind eye to it.

But the metal press reported the engagement and seemed to be supportive. This was a big thing, because the metal world back then was not diverse and I think a lot of those rocker guys were racist-see Axl Rose. Hell, it took a very long time for it to come out in the metal press that Slash was half black and when it did come out, the word "mulatto" was used. Most people just thought Slash was Mexican. And lord knows, the black press and black people don't claim Slash.

So, for the overwhelmingly white world of metal at that time to accept the news that Nikki was going to marry Vanity was big.

However, Vanity seemed to have her connections in the metal world beyond Nikki, because Warrant thanked Vanity in their album notes on either their first or second album. I never figured out why-maybe she dated one of the guys in the band.

Also note, Apples dated a lot of metal guys in that world as well.

purplegirl00 said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

I’ve just joined this forum as I’ve been fascinated by this thread. Thanks, you’ve provided a comfort as his death has had an effect on me that I didn’t expect. I followed his music and have been to his gigs but I never really paid that much attention to his personal life and you can now see what a huge driver it was to his songwriting. This post relates to 1986/87 re Vanity, Prince and Nikki Sixx and the song, Adore. No offence is intended.

Prince dedicated Adore to Vanity at the Melbourne concert. That’s very telling. It’s a declaration of love song, it has personal references and it’s obviously about her. It would appear that he was pursuing her at the time Adore was written/released in 86/87, which isn’t surprising, particularly given the nature of the song. And it worked. Nikki and Vanity broke up and the marriage didn’t go ahead. How real that engagement was who knows? The engagement may have just been a way to mislead the press, muddy the waters and defuse any speculation re who Adore’s about, and if that was the case, Nikki was just a pawn in the drama going down between Vanity and Prince. It would also appear that Vanity was trying to deflect the press in September 1987 by going to Nikki’s to continue the pretence that they were still engaged on the night that Prince was performing in LA and that this has obviously angered Nikki as they are no longer together and he suspects she’s with Prince, so he punches her in the face, knocks her out and dumps her outside.

At the same time, the Paisley Park build is completed and by October, Prince is recording love songs (When 2 R In Love) and then he decides he doesn’t want to release a ‘dark’ album (The Black Album) he wants to write LoveSexy instead.

All of this raises the question of whether Prince and Vanity got back together then and it would appear they did. For how long is unknown. Between July 1987 until her marriage on Mar 26, 1995, everyone they’re linked to could just be spin (pure speculation/fiction/press manipulation/media diversion) as a cover for them so they can keep their independence, privacy and have an arrangement/relationship that suits them. Most of these people are work colleagues after all. Maybe her drug use at that time has nothing to do with Prince or him being unfaithful either, but instead, she has a habit and it’s a heavy part of the scene she’s in. Really anything could have been going on with Prince and Vanity over the years…and it may not be what many have been led to believe.

I also think he started to be more open before he died because they covered their tracks too well and that’s not how he wants his relationship with Denise to be remembered. He loved her. He wants her to be more closely associated with him. I guess his book ‘The Beautiful Ones’ (if it comes out) will shed more light.

Adore:
-Adore was recorded in LA on Nov 19, 1986. It’s about Vanity and his love for her.
-Prince was pursuing Vanity behind the scenes in Jan 1987 and asking her to come back to him (per Nikki’s book)
-Adore was released on the album Sign O’ The Times on Mar 31, 1987. Adore got major radio play (it’s #2 on a ranking of Prince’s best songs by AOL Radio) but it wasn’t released as a single/promo which in of itself is unusual, as why wouldn’t you be making this a single if there’s a huge demand for it? It was clearly a personal song and there was no desire to turn it into a ‘commercial’ hit. Also, being such a popular song and album and with his profile, there’d have to be speculation in the press about who the song was about too - I’d imagine that would fall heavily on Vanity as she was more accessible to the media and she seemed to be the go-to-girl for all matters regarding Prince as he often wouldn’t talk.
-Vanity proposes to Nikki in April 1987. Their engagement is kept a secret.
-Prince does the Sign O’ The Times Tour in Europe May 8-June 29, 1987. Adore’s performed once on 29/5/87.
-In June, Vanity’s engagement to Nikki is leaked to the press.
-In July, Vanity goes to MPLS for Nikki’s gig. Nikki leaves (he’s on tour) and she stays in MPLS. Nikki assumes she’ll hook up with Prince. Prince is in MPLS. W Bros and Prince’s management want Prince to extend to a world tour and he refuses. He says he wants to go into the studio and record his new album.
-26 Aug Nikki breaks up with Vanity over the phone. When the press finds out is unknown but presumably when they fight in September it’s still not public knowledge
-Adore was played in 80 sets in 87/88/89 (29/5/87, 18/11/87 and 1988/89 LoveSexy tour). It’s reintroduced into his setlist across 96/97/98 and is played in it’s heaviest rotation (101 sets) from Nov 21 1996 thru 1997 to Dec 15 1998. It pops up on and off from then and is included in 2002 One Nite Alone, 2004 Musicology, 2011 Welcome2America and the final 2016 tours.

The Black Album:
-It was recorded as a compilation of individual ‘dark’ tracks (as opposed to a thematic album) between Sept 1986-Mar 1987.
-In Oct 1997, Prince revisits The Black Album and records the final song for the album at PP ‘When 2 R In Love’. It’s very different to the other tracks - it’s a love song. The album is then prepared for release.
-On Dec 1st, The Black Album is shelved. When 2 R in Love goes into the LoveSexy Album. The rest of the LoveSexy Album was recorded mid Dec 1987-late Jan 1988.

Thanks Beachy for the timeline info in Reply#547

Wow. All very interesting indeed. I, along, with many on here, are with you in that there was some sort of on-going relationship between them behind the scenes.

.

One of her appearances on Joan Rivers in 1986, nontheless, she is wearing ALL BLACK. I wonder if that is some subliminal message dealing with Prince's Black Album . I put the link below. Pay close attention when Joan asks her (around 2:15), "Are you in the middle of a romance now?" and she says,"Oh yeah" and she gets all giggly. Joan asks,"and is it as good as with Prince?" then she says replies, "it's wonderful". Joan asks "what was it like with Prince?" and she replies, "He was a romantic, quite a romantic." THEN she either says, "It's wonderful" or "He's wonderful". In either case both are in the PRESENT tense, not the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfPrak5LvDE

Hi Purplegirl00
I had a look at the video, thanks! I’m not sure when the show was shot or aired in 1986 and I don’t know enough about her career etc to know if the clothes tie to something to do with that. Although I would agree, Prince and Vanity seem to mirror one another a lot.

But what she says and does through the video is interesting, now you mention it:
At 2:15 her face definitely lights up when she’s talking about romance, Prince and she’s acts coy. And it is in the present tense
At 2:55 she’s talks about people thinking she had Prince’s baby
At 5:45 she says “My mother? She always had a thing for gorillas, she married my Dad he’s black…I’ve always had a thing for gorillas too.” I read somewhere this got her into hot water as it was seen as being racist, but if you look beyond that she’s saying she’s got a thing for black guys.
At 7:10 she says if she couldn’t act, she’d have tons of kids, get married and settle down

She's saying quite a bit isn't she

scriptgirl

I was referring to Susan Rogers, Prince's engineer who was the source of alot of the material in dsmr and hahn's book.

the engagement lasted between april and late august 1987 per Nikki's book.I think he continued to see Vanity for awhile after kind of off and on.

Not sure about the metal scene. Personally, I never thought of any of these celebrities as black, and that included MJ, Prince, and Vanity. For one thing they were all light skinned and had features that were somewhat european (plastic surgery was part of it I'm sure) so it wasn't obvious. In fact Vanity is half German. Prince always came off as Latin to me. esp because of his build and clothes and the way he styled himself. Like a flamenco dancer. Also because they sang mainstream pop/rock. I also thought I was beyond classifying people in terms of their color and one of the things I liked about Prince was that he seemed to have an attitude at the time of being post racial. Anyway I loved James Brown, Little Richard etc and everyone I knew felt the same. It was all good.

SunnyGirl8 said:

purplegirl00 said:

Wow. All very interesting indeed. I, along, with many on here, are with you in that there was some sort of on-going relationship between them behind the scenes.

.

One of her appearances on Joan Rivers in 1986, nontheless, she is wearing ALL BLACK. I wonder if that is some subliminal message dealing with Prince's Black Album . I put the link below. Pay close attention when Joan asks her (around 2:15), "Are you in the middle of a romance now?" and she says,"Oh yeah" and she gets all giggly. Joan asks,"and is it as good as with Prince?" then she says replies, "it's wonderful". Joan asks "what was it like with Prince?" and she replies, "He was a romantic, quite a romantic." THEN she either says, "It's wonderful" or "He's wonderful". In either case both are in the PRESENT tense, not the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfPrak5LvDE

Hi Purplegirl00
I had a look at the video, thanks! I’m not sure when the show was shot or aired in 1986 and I don’t know enough about her career etc to know if the clothes tie to something to do with that. Although I would agree, Prince and Vanity seem to mirror one another a lot.

But what she says and does through the video is interesting, now you mention it:
At 2:15 her face definitely lights up when she’s talking about romance, Prince and she’s acts coy. And it is in the present tense
At 2:55 she’s talks about people thinking she had Prince’s baby
At 5:45 she says “My mother? She always had a thing for gorillas, she married my Dad he’s black…I’ve always had a thing for gorillas too.” I read somewhere this got her into hot water as it was seen as being racist, but if you look beyond that she’s saying she’s got a thing for black guys.
At 7:10 she says if she couldn’t act, she’d have tons of kids, get married and settle down

She's saying quite a bit isn't she

The funny thing is, I saw this interview a couple of weeks ago and I didn't pick up her saying, "it's wonderful" or "he's wonderful" in the present tense. I suppose she could be talking about Nikki, but she uses "wonderful" to describe her feelings about both- her time with Prince and the supposed new guy.

.

She does say quite a bit, but not so much at the same time. The outfit adds to the mystery too.

My impression was that she was trying to avoid talking about Prince and was talking about Nikki but Joan loved to talk about Prince and brought him up every chance she got. She was always wearing unusual outfits to talk shows and this is generally a strategy to attract attention and get impressed into people's minds. And might have some relationship to the project she was there to publicize. I guess you could read more into it, but I think it gets on shaky territory unless its something real obvious.

.

I was kinda thinking the opposite, that she was hoping to get Prince jealous by being with another guy. I am sure thats partly why she was flashing her engagement ring on Arsenio Hall. Then flying out to MPLS to see him in person, kind of like, stop me if you love me.

.

Again just my guess, but I think part of her deal was he had to give up other women and he wouldn't so they couldn't make it work.

[Edited 5/24/16 9:32am]

beachy said:

scriptgirl

I was referring to Susan Rogers, Prince's engineer who was the source of alot of the material in dsmr and hahn's book.

the engagement lasted between april and late august 1987 per Nikki's book.I think he continued to see Vanity for awhile after kind of off and on.

Not sure about the metal scene. Personally, I never thought of any of these celebrities as black, and that included MJ, Prince, and Vanity. For one thing they were all light skinned and had features that were somewhat european (plastic surgery was part of it I'm sure) so it wasn't obvious. In fact Vanity is half German. Prince always came off as Latin to me. esp because of his build and clothes and the way he styled himself. Like a flamenco dancer. Also because they sang mainstream pop/rock. I also thought I was beyond classifying people in terms of their color and one of the things I liked about Prince was that he seemed to have an attitude at the time of being post racial. Anyway I loved James Brown, Little Richard etc and everyone I knew felt the same. It was all good.

I was the same. I mean, obviously, I knew they were of black heritage but I never really gave too much thought besides it. I'm latina & middle eastern and I was BIG into heavy metal. I loved the big haired metal bands and female rockers like Stevie Nicks, Heart, and Lita Ford I grew up in NYC at the time and while I did enjoy other music (NY freestyle and club music), I was still questioned about my love for heavy metal by family and friends. Even Bon Jovi was strange to them.

[Edited 5/24/16 9:41am]

beachy said:

My impression was that she was trying to avoid talking about Prince and was talking about Nikki but Joan loved to talk about Prince and brought him up every chance she got. She was always wearing unusual outfits to talk shows and this is generally a strategy to attract attention and get impressed into people's minds. And might have some relationship to the project she was there to publicize. I guess you could read more into it, but I think it gets on shaky territory unless its something real obvious.

.

I was kinda thinking the opposite, that she was hoping to get Prince jealous by being with another guy. I am sure thats partly why she was flashing her engagement ring on Arsenio Hall. Then flying out to MPLS to see him in person, kind of like, stop me if you love me.

.

Again just my guess, but I think part of her deal was he had to give up other women and he wouldn't so they couldn't make it work.

[Edited 5/24/16 9:32am]

That makes sense. She knew that burned him in the core, so kept hitting him there where it would hurt the most.

.

Yes, not giving up the other women, was the deal breaker.

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

My impression was that she was trying to avoid talking about Prince and was talking about Nikki but Joan loved to talk about Prince and brought him up every chance she got. She was always wearing unusual outfits to talk shows and this is generally a strategy to attract attention and get impressed into people's minds. And might have some relationship to the project she was there to publicize. I guess you could read more into it, but I think it gets on shaky territory unless its something real obvious.

.

I was kinda thinking the opposite, that she was hoping to get Prince jealous by being with another guy. I am sure thats partly why she was flashing her engagement ring on Arsenio Hall. Then flying out to MPLS to see him in person, kind of like, stop me if you love me.

.

Again just my guess, but I think part of her deal was he had to give up other women and he wouldn't so they couldn't make it work.

[Edited 5/24/16 9:32am]

That makes sense. She knew that burned him in the core, so kept hitting him there where it would hurt the most.

.

Yes, not giving up the other women, was the deal breaker.

I read somewhere that he had decided his whole schtick was to embody sex. When he fell in love that presented a conflict which he tried to resolve first by saying love was beyond flesh (in UTCM) then in Lovesexy and Come trying to make it a fusion of sex with the spiritual. Except it was a CONfusion to a woman lol. I think Vanity was smart enough not to fall for it because she knew it would destroy her completely. Again, just my take on it.

[Edited 5/24/16 10:00am]

purplegirl00 said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

I’ve just joined this forum as I’ve been fascinated by this thread. Thanks, you’ve provided a comfort as his death has had an effect on me that I didn’t expect. I followed his music and have been to his gigs but I never really paid that much attention to his personal life and you can now see what a huge driver it was to his songwriting. This post relates to 1986/87 re Vanity, Prince and Nikki Sixx and the song, Adore. No offence is intended.

Prince dedicated Adore to Vanity at the Melbourne concert. That’s very telling. It’s a declaration of love song, it has personal references and it’s obviously about her. It would appear that he was pursuing her at the time Adore was written/released in 86/87, which isn’t surprising, particularly given the nature of the song. And it worked. Nikki and Vanity broke up and the marriage didn’t go ahead. How real that engagement was who knows? The engagement may have just been a way to mislead the press, muddy the waters and defuse any speculation re who Adore’s about, and if that was the case, Nikki was just a pawn in the drama going down between Vanity and Prince. It would also appear that Vanity was trying to deflect the press in September 1987 by going to Nikki’s to continue the pretence that they were still engaged on the night that Prince was performing in LA and that this has obviously angered Nikki as they are no longer together and he suspects she’s with Prince, so he punches her in the face, knocks her out and dumps her outside.

At the same time, the Paisley Park build is completed and by October, Prince is recording love songs (When 2 R In Love) and then he decides he doesn’t want to release a ‘dark’ album (The Black Album) he wants to write LoveSexy instead.

All of this raises the question of whether Prince and Vanity got back together then and it would appear they did. For how long is unknown. Between July 1987 until her marriage on Mar 26, 1995, everyone they’re linked to could just be spin (pure speculation/fiction/press manipulation/media diversion) as a cover for them so they can keep their independence, privacy and have an arrangement/relationship that suits them. Most of these people are work colleagues after all. Maybe her drug use at that time has nothing to do with Prince or him being unfaithful either, but instead, she has a habit and it’s a heavy part of the scene she’s in. Really anything could have been going on with Prince and Vanity over the years…and it may not be what many have been led to believe.

I also think he started to be more open before he died because they covered their tracks too well and that’s not how he wants his relationship with Denise to be remembered. He loved her. He wants her to be more closely associated with him. I guess his book ‘The Beautiful Ones’ (if it comes out) will shed more light.

Adore:
-Adore was recorded in LA on Nov 19, 1986. It’s about Vanity and his love for her.
-Prince was pursuing Vanity behind the scenes in Jan 1987 and asking her to come back to him (per Nikki’s book)
-Adore was released on the album Sign O’ The Times on Mar 31, 1987. Adore got major radio play (it’s #2 on a ranking of Prince’s best songs by AOL Radio) but it wasn’t released as a single/promo which in of itself is unusual, as why wouldn’t you be making this a single if there’s a huge demand for it? It was clearly a personal song and there was no desire to turn it into a ‘commercial’ hit. Also, being such a popular song and album and with his profile, there’d have to be speculation in the press about who the song was about too - I’d imagine that would fall heavily on Vanity as she was more accessible to the media and she seemed to be the go-to-girl for all matters regarding Prince as he often wouldn’t talk.
-Vanity proposes to Nikki in April 1987. Their engagement is kept a secret.
-Prince does the Sign O’ The Times Tour in Europe May 8-June 29, 1987. Adore’s performed once on 29/5/87.
-In June, Vanity’s engagement to Nikki is leaked to the press.
-In July, Vanity goes to MPLS for Nikki’s gig. Nikki leaves (he’s on tour) and she stays in MPLS. Nikki assumes she’ll hook up with Prince. Prince is in MPLS. W Bros and Prince’s management want Prince to extend to a world tour and he refuses. He says he wants to go into the studio and record his new album.
-26 Aug Nikki breaks up with Vanity over the phone. When the press finds out is unknown but presumably when they fight in September it’s still not public knowledge
-Adore was played in 80 sets in 87/88/89 (29/5/87, 18/11/87 and 1988/89 LoveSexy tour). It’s reintroduced into his setlist across 96/97/98 and is played in it’s heaviest rotation (101 sets) from Nov 21 1996 thru 1997 to Dec 15 1998. It pops up on and off from then and is included in 2002 One Nite Alone, 2004 Musicology, 2011 Welcome2America and the final 2016 tours.

The Black Album:
-It was recorded as a compilation of individual ‘dark’ tracks (as opposed to a thematic album) between Sept 1986-Mar 1987.
-In Oct 1997, Prince revisits The Black Album and records the final song for the album at PP ‘When 2 R In Love’. It’s very different to the other tracks - it’s a love song. The album is then prepared for release.
-On Dec 1st, The Black Album is shelved. When 2 R in Love goes into the LoveSexy Album. The rest of the LoveSexy Album was recorded mid Dec 1987-late Jan 1988.

Thanks Beachy for the timeline info in Reply#547

Wow. All very interesting indeed. I, along, with many on here, are with you in that there was some sort of on-going relationship between them behind the scenes.

.

One of her appearances on Joan Rivers in 1986, nontheless, she is wearing ALL BLACK. I wonder if that is some subliminal message dealing with Prince's Black Album . I put the link below. Pay close attention when Joan asks her (around 2:15), "Are you in the middle of a romance now?" and she says,"Oh yeah" and she gets all giggly. Joan asks,"and is it as good as with Prince?" then she says replies, "it's wonderful". Joan asks "what was it like with Prince?" and she replies, "He was a romantic, quite a romantic." THEN she either says, "It's wonderful" or "He's wonderful". In either case both are in the PRESENT tense, not the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfPrak5LvDE

That is just so romantic; a song and nothing is as precious as a secret btwn 2 lovers

I want to think this is all truth. She was most definitely the one.

Related topic maybe someone knows this info. What was Vanity's ideas about Egypt? She said on Arsenio hall that she and Nikki were going to get married there. In the 90s Prince gets involved with Mayte who had learned alot of Egyptian dancing and some of the themes of his songs/videos was about Egypt. In Revelations Prince talks about the color of the Pharoah's hand. There's got to be some symbolism there.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

Definitely. There was something special there. Here is something from that recent People magazine article. I think she said this back in 1984 in the original article:

.

""I never thought, 'Oh God, I'm in Prince's shadow. He'd been performing for years and he was my teacher. I miss his humor. I always felt we'd be like Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor over the years. I can honestly say I love the kid." Very endearing and ironic. To me, it turned out more like he was in HER shadow.

[Edited 5/23/16 20:43pm]

It's as if her death and his grief, then his death and now our mulling over it, has put them back together so the world is right again. The only thing I wish I had is some video of them together. I have never seen them in the flesh together, interacting with each other or at an event except for when she presented the award to them in 1985 and all we really saw is him give her a peck on the cheek for a split second. I would love to see them talking together.

[Edited 5/23/16 20:59pm]

This board but especially this thread has been therapy for me;I still am feeling such loss over his death though but this helps-strange but true

beachy said:

My impression was that she was trying to avoid talking about Prince and was talking about Nikki but Joan loved to talk about Prince and brought him up every chance she got. She was always wearing unusual outfits to talk shows and this is generally a strategy to attract attention and get impressed into people's minds. And might have some relationship to the project she was there to publicize. I guess you could read more into it, but I think it gets on shaky territory unless its something real obvious.

.

I was kinda thinking the opposite, that she was hoping to get Prince jealous by being with another guy. I am sure thats partly why she was flashing her engagement ring on Arsenio Hall. Then flying out to MPLS to see him in person, kind of like, stop me if you love me.

.

Again just my guess, but I think part of her deal was he had to give up other women and he wouldn't so they couldn't make it work.

[Edited 5/24/16 9:32am]

Beachy, you seem to have all the tea, LOL! You are amazing! I have a question for you. Do you know what was going on between Prince/Andy and Prince/Judith? Andy seems to have been close to him in more ways than one. She said he was her friend, mentor and so much more. Was there anything going on between them? Also with Judith there is a cute video on YouTube with her at Paisley Park and Prince locking her out of the place. She also gets her revenge on him by pushing him out of PP and locking him. What was the tea on those two ladies? (They were so very young.) PS: I am so confused on Damaris as well.

cng89 said:

beachy said:

My impression was that she was trying to avoid talking about Prince and was talking about Nikki but Joan loved to talk about Prince and brought him up every chance she got. She was always wearing unusual outfits to talk shows and this is generally a strategy to attract attention and get impressed into people's minds. And might have some relationship to the project she was there to publicize. I guess you could read more into it, but I think it gets on shaky territory unless its something real obvious.

.

I was kinda thinking the opposite, that she was hoping to get Prince jealous by being with another guy. I am sure thats partly why she was flashing her engagement ring on Arsenio Hall. Then flying out to MPLS to see him in person, kind of like, stop me if you love me.

.

Again just my guess, but I think part of her deal was he had to give up other women and he wouldn't so they couldn't make it work.

[Edited 5/24/16 9:32am]

Beachy, you seem to have all the tea, LOL! You are amazing! I have a question for you. Do you know what was going on between Prince/Andy and Prince/Judith? Andy seems to have been close to him in more ways than one. She said he was her friend, mentor and so much more. Was there anything going on between them? Also with Judith there is a cute video on YouTube with her at Paisley Park and Prince locking her out of the place. She also gets her revenge on him by pushing him out of PP and locking him. What was the tea on those two ladies? (They were so very young.) PS: I am so confused on Damaris as well.

Can I piggy back and ask who is this Lala Escarzega?

Everyday seems I am learning of another I hadn't noticed much before.

cng89 said:

beachy said:

My impression was that she was trying to avoid talking about Prince and was talking about Nikki but Joan loved to talk about Prince and brought him up every chance she got. She was always wearing unusual outfits to talk shows and this is generally a strategy to attract attention and get impressed into people's minds. And might have some relationship to the project she was there to publicize. I guess you could read more into it, but I think it gets on shaky territory unless its something real obvious.

.

I was kinda thinking the opposite, that she was hoping to get Prince jealous by being with another guy. I am sure thats partly why she was flashing her engagement ring on Arsenio Hall. Then flying out to MPLS to see him in person, kind of like, stop me if you love me.

.

Again just my guess, but I think part of her deal was he had to give up other women and he wouldn't so they couldn't make it work.

[Edited 5/24/16 9:32am]

Beachy, you seem to have all the tea, LOL! You are amazing! I have a question for you. Do you know what was going on between Prince/Andy and Prince/Judith? Andy seems to have been close to him in more ways than one. She said he was her friend, mentor and so much more. Was there anything going on between them? Also with Judith there is a cute video on YouTube with her at Paisley Park and Prince locking her out of the place. She also gets her revenge on him by pushing him out of PP and locking him. What was the tea on those two ladies? (They were so very young.) PS: I am so confused on Damaris as well.

Can I piggy back and ask who is this Lala Escarzega?

Everyday seems I am learning of another I hadn't noticed much before.

Vashtix said:

cng89 said:

Beachy, you seem to have all the tea, LOL! You are amazing! I have a question for you. Do you know what was going on between Prince/Andy and Prince/Judith? Andy seems to have been close to him in more ways than one. She said he was her friend, mentor and so much more. Was there anything going on between them? Also with Judith there is a cute video on YouTube with her at Paisley Park and Prince locking her out of the place. She also gets her revenge on him by pushing him out of PP and locking him. What was the tea on those two ladies? (They were so very young.) PS: I am so confused on Damaris as well.

Can I piggy back and ask who is this Lala Escarzega?

Everyday seems I am learning of another I hadn't noticed much before.

Co-sign! She just appeared out of nowhere. I'm like huh?! She sounds like she was close to him as well.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

That makes sense. She knew that burned him in the core, so kept hitting him there where it would hurt the most.

.

Yes, not giving up the other women, was the deal breaker.

I read somewhere that he had decided his whole schtick was to embody sex. When he fell in love that presented a conflict which he tried to resolve first by saying love was beyond flesh (in UTCM) then in Lovesexy and Come trying to make it a fusion of sex with the spiritual. Except it was a CONfusion to a woman lol. I think Vanity was smart enough not to fall for it because she knew it would destroy her completely. Again, just my take on it.

[Edited 5/24/16 10:00am]

After I read that script & poem from UTCM that you posted, the thought that came to my mind was here he had taken on this sexisfied person but you're right, falling in real love was a problem for that image. He was "creeping" around with all these women, "living in the flesh" ( as spiritual people say) making sure he's living up to it, but he truly only loves one and it doesn't matter. Love is stronger than the flesh. I think you're right she knew better.

Is that Arsenio interview with Vanity online?

beachy said:

Related topic maybe someone knows this info. What was Vanity's ideas about Egypt? She said on Arsenio hall that she and Nikki were going to get married there. In the 90s Prince gets involved with Mayte who had learned alot of Egyptian dancing and some of the themes of his songs/videos was about Egypt. In Revelations Prince talks about the color of the Pharoah's hand. There's got to be some symbolism there.

Interesting that you bring up Egypt. I have been watching Denise's preaching videos and she keeps saying that God was commanding her to flee Egypt. She said that even when she started her conversion she was still running back to "Egypt". Egypt, I think could be Prince himself. I don't know.

.

I just listened to Revelation and . It's an incredible love ballad. Based on the lyrics, it sounds like a past love that's returned? That's my interpretation.

[Edited 5/24/16 11:56am]

[Edited 5/24/16 13:06pm]

Vashtix said:

purplegirl00 said:

Wow. All very interesting indeed. I, along, with many on here, are with you in that there was some sort of on-going relationship between them behind the scenes.

.

One of her appearances on Joan Rivers in 1986, nontheless, she is wearing ALL BLACK. I wonder if that is some subliminal message dealing with Prince's Black Album . I put the link below. Pay close attention when Joan asks her (around 2:15), "Are you in the middle of a romance now?" and she says,"Oh yeah" and she gets all giggly. Joan asks,"and is it as good as with Prince?" then she says replies, "it's wonderful". Joan asks "what was it like with Prince?" and she replies, "He was a romantic, quite a romantic." THEN she either says, "It's wonderful" or "He's wonderful". In either case both are in the PRESENT tense, not the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfPrak5LvDE

That is just so romantic; a song and nothing is as precious as a secret btwn 2 lovers

I want to think this is all truth. She was most definitely the one.

Yep. It really is quite beautiful. If the interpretation is correct, the lyrics and the gestures just blow you away.

SunnyGirl8 said:

Vashtix said:

That is just so romantic; a song and nothing is as precious as a secret btwn 2 lovers

I want to think this is all truth. She was most definitely the one.

Yep. It really is quite beautiful. If the interpretation is correct, the lyrics and the gestures just blow you away.

Beautiful idea but I think the Black album was in late 1987, cancelled on Dec 1. '87

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

Related topic maybe someone knows this info. What was Vanity's ideas about Egypt? She said on Arsenio hall that she and Nikki were going to get married there. In the 90s Prince gets involved with Mayte who had learned alot of Egyptian dancing and some of the themes of his songs/videos was about Egypt. In Revelations Prince talks about the color of the Pharoah's hand. There's got to be some symbolism there.

Interesting that you bring up Egypt. I have been watching Denise's preaching videos and she keeps saying that God was commanding her to flee Egypt. She said that even when she started her conversion she was still running back to "Egypt". Egypt, I think could be Prince himself. I don't know.

.

I just listened to Revelation and . It's an incredible love ballad. Based on the lyrics, it sounds like a past love that's returned? That's my interpretation.

[Edited 5/24/16 11:56am]

[Edited 5/24/16 13:06pm]

So she later saw it as bad, going with Biblical symbolism. My impression of the ballad was he was in a transecendant space beyond time, looking at his queen, and saw their lives intertwining in other eras as they had lived past lives. The English romantics I took as their costumes in the early 80s. Its a very hypnotic song, I think its one of the best and deepest he's done. Maybe I'm reaching but I was connecting the idea of them being together back to Christopher Tracy and 2 souls are one and cannot be apart.

.It's probably forcing it, right?.

.

"Revelation"

[Edited 5/24/16 14:00pm]

[Edited 5/24/16 14:04pm]

beachy said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

Yep. It really is quite beautiful. If the interpretation is correct, the lyrics and the gestures just blow you away.

Beautiful idea but I think the Black album was in late 1987, cancelled on Dec 1. '87

Yes the album was pressed in late 1987 but this is what Prince Vault says about all the songs on it. So as I said originally, the bulk of the tracks were recorded between Sept 1986-March 1987.

"The Black Album" is the 16th full-length studio album by Prince. Officially, it has no title and no credited artist. It's known as "The Black Album" due to its plain black sleeve, which contains no information apart from the catalogue number printed on the spine in peach letters. The sticker on the 1994 release labeled it "The legendary Black Album". It was originally intended to be released on 8 December 1987, but was canceled at Prince's request just prior to release (on 1 December 1987). It was finally given a limited release in November 1994 (just three months after his previous new release Come).

Recording process

The album is essentially a compilation of individual tracks; it was not recorded as a thematic album.

The track, Superfunkycalifragisexy, was the first to be recorded in September 1986. The bulk of the tracks were recorded between October 1986, and March 1987.

The final track recorded, When 2 R In Love, came much later, in October 1987. Thematically the song is very different to those recorded earlier, perhaps prompting Prince's decision to keep it for use on Lovesexy.

[Edited 5/24/16 13:50pm]

scriptgirl said:

Is that Arsenio interview with Vanity online?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zM0VyFl99o

SunnyGirl8 said:

beachy said:

Beautiful idea but I think the Black album was in late 1987, cancelled on Dec 1. '87

Yes the album was pressed in late 1987 but this is what Prince Vault says about all the songs on it. So as I said originally, the bulk of the tracks were recorded between Sept 1986-March 1987.

"The Black Album" is the 16th full-length studio album by Prince. Officially, it has no title and no credited artist. It's known as "The Black Album" due to its plain black sleeve, which contains no information apart from the catalogue number printed on the spine in peach letters. The sticker on the 1994 release labeled it "The legendary Black Album". It was originally intended to be released on 8 December 1987, but was canceled at Prince's request just prior to release (on 1 December 1987). It was finally given a limited release in November 1994 (just three months after his previous new release Come).

Recording process

The album is essentially a compilation of individual tracks; it was not recorded as a thematic album.

The track, Superfunkycalifragisexy, was the first to be recorded in September 1986. The bulk of the tracks were recorded between October 1986, and March 1987.

The final track recorded, When 2 R In Love, came much later, in October 1987. Thematically the song is very different to those recorded earlier, perhaps prompting Prince's decision to keep it for use on Lovesexy.

[Edited 5/24/16 13:50pm]

Right but do we know when he decided to make them an album and to call it the Black album? usually the name comes at the end. I'm not sure when in 1986 that interview is from. How would she know that far in advance and make a 'sign' out of it? She wore all black for Johnny Carson in 1985 too. Its hard to say.

Girls I remember something about Andy being asked to pack and leave in 2012. And DL complaining that the sex wasn't good anymore, this usually being a sign his interest had alighted on someone else. I might have to do more scouting and vetting my sources though so don't take it as fact. Take it as titillating gossip. entertainment lol

[Edited 5/24/16 14:12pm]

beachy said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

Yes the album was pressed in late 1987 but this is what Prince Vault says about all the songs on it. So as I said originally, the bulk of the tracks were recorded between Sept 1986-March 1987.

"The Black Album" is the 16th full-length studio album by Prince. Officially, it has no title and no credited artist. It's known as "The Black Album" due to its plain black sleeve, which contains no information apart from the catalogue number printed on the spine in peach letters. The sticker on the 1994 release labeled it "The legendary Black Album". It was originally intended to be released on 8 December 1987, but was canceled at Prince's request just prior to release (on 1 December 1987). It was finally given a limited release in November 1994 (just three months after his previous new release Come).

Recording process

The album is essentially a compilation of individual tracks; it was not recorded as a thematic album.

The track, Superfunkycalifragisexy, was the first to be recorded in September 1986. The bulk of the tracks were recorded between October 1986, and March 1987.

The final track recorded, When 2 R In Love, came much later, in October 1987. Thematically the song is very different to those recorded earlier, perhaps prompting Prince's decision to keep it for use on Lovesexy.

[Edited 5/24/16 13:50pm]

Right but do we know when he decided to make them an album and to call it the Black album? usually the name comes at the end. I'm not sure when in 1986 that interview is from. How would she know that far in advance and make a 'sign' out of it? She wore all black for Johnny Carson in 1985 too. Its hard to say.

Right. She did wear black also with Johnny Carson. I saw that later. Probably this interview with Joan Rivers has nothing to do with it. I just saw that and thought it was interesting and maybe there was a connection being that it was 1986.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

Interesting that you bring up Egypt. I have been watching Denise's preaching videos and she keeps saying that God was commanding her to flee Egypt. She said that even when she started her conversion she was still running back to "Egypt". Egypt, I think could be Prince himself. I don't know.

.

I just listened to Revelation and . It's an incredible love ballad. Based on the lyrics, it sounds like a past love that's returned? That's my interpretation.

[Edited 5/24/16 11:56am]

[Edited 5/24/16 13:06pm]

So she later saw it as bad, going with Biblical symbolism. My impression of the ballad was he was in a transecendant space beyond time, looking at his queen, and saw their lives intertwining in other eras as they had lived past lives. The English romantics I took as their costumes in the early 80s. Its a very hypnotic song, I think its one of the best and deepest he's done. Maybe I'm reaching but I was connecting the idea of them being together back to Christopher Tracy and 2 souls are one and cannot be apart.

.It's probably forcing it, right?.

.

"Revelation"

Revelation [x2]

It's coming back to me now
You and I were meant to be together (hands down)

Revelation [x2]

It seems like you've always been here,
Now that you are, stay with me forever my dear

Revelation [x2]

If ever (if ever), there was ever
such a thing as time, oh baby
It's useless, so useless to me now
For in your arms is everything, in your arms, everything
An army of haters, one by one
will do what they will to everyone
but the task at hand until I see the sun
is to keep doing you until you cum, to revelation (revelation...)

(Can I play with it now?)

It's all coming back to me now, like it was deep in the ocean
I'll beat me sword into a plow, and share a heavenly potion
with my future queen...
Half east, half west, the truth's somewhere; lest inbetween

Through English glamour, casting a spell
Though Hebrew, Greek and Roman hell
higher 'til we understand, the colour of the Pharoah's hand
(the colour of the Pharoah's hand...)

[Edited 5/24/16 14:00pm]

[Edited 5/24/16 14:04pm]

No, not reaching. I listened to it without the lyrics first and I was literally blown away. It is truly hypnotic. Then I listened with the lyrics and that's when I thought it sounded like a past love that had returned, when he says "Now that you are, stay with me forever dear" made me think the person went away, but came back so "stay with me forever". Transcendence of a love fits too. I'm still trying to figure out the whole Pharoah's hand thing.

[Edited 5/24/16 14:21pm]