purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

here's what some innocent bystanders had to say of the situation they observed:

.

“He juggled the affairs on a day-to-day basis,” said Alan Leeds, who would soon be called in to stop the 1999 tour from falling apart. “Some nights Vanity would disappear with Prince, then some nights Jill would appear on the Prince bus, leaving Vanity in the hotel.”

According to Barney Hoskyns, who covered the tour for the New Musical Express: “Nobody seems to remark how peculiar it is that Vanity, supposedly enjoying a pride of place between the little chap’s sheets, actually kips on her own in a separate bus & scarcely exchanges a word with him throughout the days I’m on the tour.”

in case anyone is not familiar with brit slang, kips means to stay or board overnight. (from Prince: Chaos, Disorder, and Revolution by Jason Draper)

.

Personally. I would have left like Vanity did, and probably not have been as sweet about it.

The Oral history article I posted yesterday, part of it was by Wendy who said they had a huge blowup.

COLEMAN Vanity was supposed to be the lead, but she left right before the film. It almost tanked the film. I don’t know what happened. Maybe it was a personal issue between her and Prince. They were dating.

MELVOIN My only speculation was that they had a big blowout. That’s what I heard. They had a huge blowout and she bolted.

.

From everything I have read I believe Prince kept women at arm's length and off balance by playing them off against each other. He also reportedly gave rings to Susan Moonsie in 1981 and to Susannah Melvoin in 1995. He spoke about marriage or being married to or about Vanity, Nona, and probably several others. How much of it was sincere and how much a game he played I do not know. All I know for sure is his own statement that he used to love Vanity deeply. I also believe that all the stuff he said about being soulmates with Mayte was mostly to hurt Vanity and show her she had been replaced. I am sure he cared about Mayte I am not saying he didn't but its the way he said that bit in the Spin magazine about how everyone thought he would marry Vanity. I have no proof that is just the way I think he was playing it.

[Edited 5/23/16 12:57pm]

I believe Prince grew emotionally distant with Mani and that caused the end of that marriage. So that does tie in a bit with keeping women at arms length.

That interview where he addresses the whole, "everyone thought I would marry Vanity" thing first seemed bizarre to me, but now makes more sense that it was his revenge. Vanity did say in that magazine where it featured her and the husband, "I knew that this man was made for me the first day." I bet Prince took that as a HUGE slap in the face. So with Mayte, he returns the fire and claims she's his soulmate. Oh LAWD the games these two played!

yup Vanity replaced him so he made sure he replaced her and called it out publicly.

didn't he do a song where he talked about the other man as being very dark and tall as a tree? if you look at Vanity's husband the description fits.

What I heard about Carmen is also true with Vanity, ie Prince cannot stand it when his woman takes another man or men. It drove him nuts.

.

I heard that the relationship with Mani went downhill when she started to tell him what to do musically. Could be BS. I think he was at his lowest point when he married her. He had a comeback in 2004 with Musicology and I think that finished it off.

[Edited 5/23/16 14:09pm]

purplegirl00 said:

I know we moved on from this a few pages ago, but I saw part of Denise's will with her signature. It does pose a strikingly resemblance to diary handwritting. I'm leaning towards it being legit. I was not able to capture it as a picture, so here is the link:

http://bossip.com/1284091/bossip-exclusive-80s-singer-vanity-leaves-most-of-her-estate-to-church/

Good find! I agree they look the same to me too. I think its real. The names and details all made sense.

scriptgirl said:

re Carmen, who is Tony?

I forgot about Susannah Hoffs and Sheena-I would put them in the above it all category and Hoffs in the never seen around category as well.. Hoffs, I think has distanced herself from Prince for decades and to me, anyway, has gone out of her way not to be associated with Prince. I could be wrong, but for the most part, my take is that she'd rather not go down memory lane on that one.

I forgot about Nona: she is in the Bitter camp, but from what I have seen and heard about her recently, Nona is not doing well at all and this has been going on for years. I also hope someone is checking on her-I can imagine that hearing the news about Prince must have hit her hard and she is not someone who is tough. Her coping skills seem to be narrow-and that is not shade. Nona just is not a tough woman. She has had a lot to deal with in her life.

I think Lisa and Wendy are full of it. They act like that that info re why Vanity left came to them second hand, which has to be bullshit. In those days, esp before Purple Rain came out, that whole camp was living in each other's pocket. Everytime someone sneezed back then, everyone else knew, so miss me with that.

I am not really too interested in Carmen,Tamar, Andy, the Twinz, Bria, cause that era to me doesn't really rate.

I'm interested in the OGs and their dynamics-all those proteges, band members from 1980-to 1988-cause you are talking about grown ass women and that whole era was classic. Those women have stories and loyalties and drama.

But yeah, I definitely think there are those women who are not cool with each other and to be honest, there are only a few I think that would really give you the real ish and not sugar coat. The main one would be Brenda. She's not fucking around and she is not one to be crossed.She would tell you the whole truth and nothing but. I would love to hear Susie's take on things, but not sure how honest she would be.

Sheena is an interesting case and people were guessing she was his baby mama when that blind came out a few years ago. I think there is some kind of story there but who knows if we'll ever hear it. She has managed to keep out of the light entirely yet still has her career. I read that she saw Prince's concert in Las Vegas in 2007.

I don't know anything at all about Susannah Hoffs, so I guess she has been very successful at distancing herself.

.

I think I said this before but W&L considered themselves real musicians and they didn't think so much of Vanity and other proteges. They also just as in PR wanted to be co -writers with Prince, as if they were a team. Prince felt that his ability to be himself was being compromised so he fired them in mid 1996 right after the tour. UTCM had come out in July and bombed and W&L had been unhappy and quit. He talked them into the tour then fired them in October. It's fair to say Prince was completely stressed out by everything. Susannah hung around limping until the end of the year but she also complicated matters because she would tell Wendy what whoring Prince was doing and Wendy could not help but be upset, so basically Prince could not keep his women all in their own lanes. He tried to separate Susannah from Wendy and Lisa and that was hard to do. He may have also had to be careful because of what they could tell the press, etc his business could have been out there.

[Edited 5/23/16 14:14pm]

[Edited 5/23/16 14:31pm]

I never took CE too seriously before but apparently Prince shelved the albums of some real talent (Rosie Gaines, Margie Cox, Robin Powers and several others. I believe Jill Jones also had this issue, she had been around forever and was sidelined again.) and pretty much focused on CE for a few years, with Mayte and Nona playing 2nd and 3rd string. Carmen was barely legal when she came to PP if that. So she had the 'radically new' thing going for her as well. She worked very hard, and he was trying to make her a rapper, but I think she was a better dancer and the album did not do well. Everyone was mad at Prince for hurting their careers and giving all his time to CE. Plus WB would only take one album, so for him to pick CE out of all the potentials was a bitter pill. I guess Prince was convinced that looks wise CE had what it took. Anyway he was trying to create her like he had created Vanity, out of raw material.

If you ever get a chance to hear Margie Cox on the bootleg Flash, now there is an amazing singer and I would love to see that album come out. She has amazing talent.

[Edited 5/23/16 14:25pm]

Carmen had none of what Vanity had. She was and is basic. Now, if she had come along in the 80s, she could have made it, she has a cartoonish quality that would have fit the 80s.

I am not going to run my mouth about Jill, because in a way, she made her own bed and based on things I have read about her and things she has said and vids I have seen about her, certain things are apparent and I will say that her truth is her truth, but it's not the whole truth and to a certain extent, she should have known better.

Sheena is a lil different, cause she was already an established star with several hits and she could always go back to the UK, which she did and don't forget, she was on Miami Vice .

Re Susannah Hoffs, that is a different thing entirely. Her bandmates had very harsh things to say about Prince in the 80s and they still hate him-but one of those bandmates is a mess.

I think the 90s was a very weird time for Prince and I am not really crazy about the whole NPG era, although I like the music. I leave the whole Mayte thing alone, because she is a sweet person. As far as Mani, I don't know much about her-I will say I have heard only negative about her.

beachy said:

I never took CE too seriously before but apparently Prince shelved the albums of some real talent (Rosie Gaines, Margie Cox, Robin Powers and several others. I believe Jill Jones also had this issue, she had been around forever and was sidelined again.) and pretty much focused on CE for a few years, with Mayte and Nona playing 2nd and 3rd string. Carmen was barely legal when she came to PP if that. So she had the 'radically new' thing going for her as well. She worked very hard, and he was trying to make her a rapper, but I think she was a better dancer and the album did not do well. Everyone was mad at Prince for hurting their careers and giving all his time to CE. Plus WB would only take one album, so for him to pick CE out of all the potentials was a bitter pill. I guess Prince was convinced that looks wise CE had what it took. Anyway he was trying to create her like he had created Vanity, out of raw material.

If you ever get a chance to hear Margie Cox on the bootleg Flash, now there is an amazing singer and I would love to see that album come out. She has amazing talent.

[Edited 5/23/16 14:25pm]

Prince was trying to re-create or replace Denise/Vanity- both in the professional and the personal realm. Again trying to fit the square peg into the circle hole. It never worked.

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

I never took CE too seriously before but apparently Prince shelved the albums of some real talent (Rosie Gaines, Margie Cox, Robin Powers and several others. I believe Jill Jones also had this issue, she had been around forever and was sidelined again.) and pretty much focused on CE for a few years, with Mayte and Nona playing 2nd and 3rd string. Carmen was barely legal when she came to PP if that. So she had the 'radically new' thing going for her as well. She worked very hard, and he was trying to make her a rapper, but I think she was a better dancer and the album did not do well. Everyone was mad at Prince for hurting their careers and giving all his time to CE. Plus WB would only take one album, so for him to pick CE out of all the potentials was a bitter pill. I guess Prince was convinced that looks wise CE had what it took. Anyway he was trying to create her like he had created Vanity, out of raw material.

If you ever get a chance to hear Margie Cox on the bootleg Flash, now there is an amazing singer and I would love to see that album come out. She has amazing talent.

[Edited 5/23/16 14:25pm]

Prince was trying to re-create or replace Denise/Vanity- both in the professional and the personal realm. Again trying to fit the square peg into the circle hole. It never worked.

Denise/Vanity was unique - as much as I enjoyed the movie Purple Rain I always wanted to see it with Denise/Vanity as the lead girl. Appolonia was fine and I like her but to me Vanity was special. It has been years over 30 years and she is one of those people who just fascinate as time goes on

for me not one - not even Sheilah E. is the find Vanity appears to have been; no disrespect to Mayte or Mani.

Vashtix said:

purplegirl00 said:

Prince was trying to re-create or replace Denise/Vanity- both in the professional and the personal realm. Again trying to fit the square peg into the circle hole. It never worked.

Denise/Vanity was unique - as much as I enjoyed the movie Purple Rain I always wanted to see it with Denise/Vanity as the lead girl. Appolonia was fine and I like her but to me Vanity was special. It has been years over 30 years and she is one of those people who just fascinate as time goes on

for me not one - not even Sheilah E. is the find Vanity appears to have been; no disrespect to Mayte or Mani.

Agree. No disrespect to Mayte, Mani, Sheila, or any of the others. Obviously Prince had a relationship with these ladies and he did care for them in his own way. Though not a saint as she had her own vices, Denise/Vanity was definitely special. She had talent- could sing and act. You could tell she had an endearing personality as well (not knocking any of the other ladies either) and stunning (the girl could rock the bad girl image and the innocent well). Denise was the complete package.

purplegirl00 said:

Vashtix said:

Denise/Vanity was unique - as much as I enjoyed the movie Purple Rain I always wanted to see it with Denise/Vanity as the lead girl. Appolonia was fine and I like her but to me Vanity was special. It has been years over 30 years and she is one of those people who just fascinate as time goes on

for me not one - not even Sheilah E. is the find Vanity appears to have been; no disrespect to Mayte or Mani.

Agree. No disrespect to Mayte, Mani, Sheila, or any of the others. Obviously Prince had a relationship with these ladies and he did care for them in his own way. Though not a saint as she had her own vices, Denise/Vanity was definitely special. She had talent- could sing and act. You could tell she had an endearing personality as well (not knocking any of the other ladies either) and stunning (the girl could rock the bad girl image and the innocent well). Denise was the complete package.

Yep and it seems he romanticized his time with her if everything I have read about his dedications to her were true. I like knowing that because since he died so close to her death I have done the exact same thing

Vashtix said:

purplegirl00 said:

Agree. No disrespect to Mayte, Mani, Sheila, or any of the others. Obviously Prince had a relationship with these ladies and he did care for them in his own way. Though not a saint as she had her own vices, Denise/Vanity was definitely special. She had talent- could sing and act. You could tell she had an endearing personality as well (not knocking any of the other ladies either) and stunning (the girl could rock the bad girl image and the innocent well). Denise was the complete package.

Yep and it seems he romanticized his time with her if everything I have read about his dedications to her were true. I like knowing that because since he died so close to her death I have done the exact same thing

This has actually helped my grieving along as well. I don't remember seeing Prince as an emotional person. All this time, I have LOVED his music but always thought him a womanizer with no real feelings. His expression of love and emotion for Denise in that Melbourne tribute to her on the day he found out she died, showed a whole new side of him and maybe to a large degree, the real Prince. We were able to hear the personal side of him that we had not really heard or even seen up until then.

.

People here on the org have said how he was also emotional during the Oakland shows (he was there for Denise's funeral) or maybe the Atlanta shows? I can't remember which, but people have said that he even had to leave the stage in between songs to compose himself, telling the audience, "that he forgot how emotional those songs make him". That is out of character for Prince.

[Edited 5/23/16 15:55pm]

Anyone think that Prince possibly wrote the movie Purple Rain because Denise had a dream of becoming an actress? That Purple Rain was Prince's way of helping her dreams become a reality, even though she walked away before it was made???

purplegirl00 said:

Vashtix said:

Yep and it seems he romanticized his time with her if everything I have read about his dedications to her were true. I like knowing that because since he died so close to her death I have done the exact same thing

This has actually helped my grieving along as well. I don't remember seeing Prince as an emotional person. All this time, I have LOVED his music but always thought him a womanizer with no real feelings. His expression of love and emotion for Denise in that Melbourne tribute to her on the day he found out she died, showed a whole new side of him and maybe to a large degree, the real Prince. We were able to hear the personal side of him that we had not really heard or even seen up until then.

For me too-it validated alot about him as a man and his music and his muse. It is amazing how much a brief relationship in relation to a lifetime effected so much and what he became known for in the mainstream (Purple Rain) was all about him and Denise-THAT is amazing. Their story will never die; it captured hearts and minds and with their deaths it added another whole dimension.

[Edited 5/23/16 15:57pm]

GeniusLuv said:

Anyone think that Prince possibly wrote the movie Purple Rain because Denise had a dream of becoming an actress? That Purple Rain was Prince's way of helping her dreams become a reality, even though she walked away before it was made???

That is possible. She did admit to People magazine in 1984, that she helped him script the movie.

Here is a link to People magazine.

http://www.people.com/article/prince-dead-vanity-purple-rain-love-story

GeniusLuv said:

Anyone think that Prince possibly wrote the movie Purple Rain because Denise had a dream of becoming an actress? That Purple Rain was Prince's way of helping her dreams become a reality, even though she walked away before it was made???

She walked away from a dream then if this was true. Denise was a strong woman.

Interesting to hear that the Bangles talked a lot of mess about P. Never knew that....I guess they were concerned that he was going to steal Susannah away from them.

Vashtix said:

GeniusLuv said:

Anyone think that Prince possibly wrote the movie Purple Rain because Denise had a dream of becoming an actress? That Purple Rain was Prince's way of helping her dreams become a reality, even though she walked away before it was made???

She walked away from a dream then if this was true. Denise was a strong woman.

Prince was part of her dream. As she wrote, in what I believe to be her authentic diary, that she couldn't "bear" the harem Prince had. She wanted him to herself (who could blame her). That is what she walked away from.

GeniusLuv said:

Anyone think that Prince possibly wrote the movie Purple Rain because Denise had a dream of becoming an actress? That Purple Rain was Prince's way of helping her dreams become a reality, even though she walked away before it was made???

That's a really interesting idea I hadn't thought of it but it makes alot of sense. It must have been tough for her to walk away from it all.

I think after the success of PR actually Prince was thinking of quitting touring and becoming a film director. When UTCM got bad reviews that set him back and when Graffitti Bridge bombed that was the end of that idea.

But he was still creating all those video and multimedia experiences in the 90s.

I think the failure of those projects dented his confidence.

.

Regarding UTCM and the whole 30s vibe the set had and Vanity put on her skin on skin album, and the reference to Marilyn in Vanity's Samuelle, I found out that in 1984/85 Prince was absolutely obsessed with Marilyn Monroe and had stuff on her and about her all over his house.

I told you guys I had tried to keep a list of all of Prince's liasons. Here it is, I am sure it is not complete. I don't know if Sheena Easton is confirmed or where to put her. Please feel free to tell me what's wrong or missing if you are at all interested.

For me it was kind of mindblowing. The man had too many options. He lived in a different headspace than us and even Vanity.

.

late 1980- 81 - Susan Moonsie (withdrew romantically and became friends with Vanity)
Jan1981-April 1983 - Vanity (romance cooled on 1999 tour, prof'l rela over in Sept)
Oct 1983 - Apollonia (fling)

Dec1980-early90s - Jill Jones
.

late 1983-Dec 1986 Susannah Melvoin (downgraded Nov 1985 after 'engagement' announced)
1985 - Sherilynn Fenn, Susanna Hoffs, Madonna
Spring 1986 Susannah, Sheila E, Troy Beyer, Jill Jones, Carole Davis,
.
1987-89 - Cat Glover
1986 - 90 - Sheila E (knew since 1978, 'engaged' 1988?)
Dec 1987-91 - Ingrid Chavez (spiritual relationship?)

1988/89 Sade, Mathilda May (French actress/singer)
mid1986-early1990 - Anna (Garcia) Fantastic (sex on Dec 31 1988 when she turned 18)

summer1989-Jan90 Kim Basinger
1991 Robin Power

.

July1990-1995 Mayte (as just another hanger on)

1991 Troy Beyer
July1990-93, off/on till 94 Carmen Electra
summer93 -Nona Gaye (until 95),

1993 -Vanessa Marcil

.

July1995-1996 Mayte romance and marriage (1997 cooled way down after son died, divorced 2000)

mid-1998 -2006 Mani (married 2001)
.

2006 Tamar
2007-10 Bria Valente
2011-12 Andy Allo (last confirmed)
2012 -? Damaris Lewis

[Edited 5/23/16 16:53pm]

[Edited 5/23/16 20:26pm]

Denise said that she left because of money (it was in the Playboy interview). I guess that was a part of it. Maybe pride too. One of the band members, I think it was Fink said in an interview that she wanted more money but had no experience as an actress.

-

Reading this excellent thread it has made me think about the money issue with Prince. We've heard lots of people talk about him not paying much. Jimmy Jam said they were paid $170 per week. That sounds terrible to me. Sheila E's deal when she toured with him was that she paid for everything, so she ended up owing him over a million dollars, which she said she paid back.

-

At the height of their career, the Revolution had to make a ton of money, but maybe they didn't.

-

But he tends to fall out with people over money.

-

Does anyone else know what Prince's issue with money was?

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

Anyone think that Prince possibly wrote the movie Purple Rain because Denise had a dream of becoming an actress? That Purple Rain was Prince's way of helping her dreams become a reality, even though she walked away before it was made???

That's a really interesting idea I hadn't thought of it but it makes alot of sense. It must have been tough for her to walk away from it all.

I think after the success of PR actually Prince was thinking of quitting touring and becoming a film director. When UTCM got bad reviews that set him back and when Graffitti Bridge bombed that was the end of that idea.

But he was still creating all those video and multimedia experiences in the 90s.

I think the failure of those projects dented his confidence.

.

Regarding UTCM and the whole 30s vibe the set had and Vanity put on her skin on skin album, and the reference to Marilyn in Vanity's Samuelle, I found out that in 1984/85 Prince was absolutely obsessed with Marilyn Monroe and had stuff on her and about her all over his house.

Oh my goodness that you mention that! I had that song in my head ALL night last night after watching the video. I kept trying out figure out who Marilyn was? I mean I figured most likely Marilyn Monroe but didn't how that tied in. I am still trying to figure out why she is calling Prince, Samuelle. There has to be some symbolism with that. What's with the Valerie, Valerie, Valerie part?

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

Anyone think that Prince possibly wrote the movie Purple Rain because Denise had a dream of becoming an actress? That Purple Rain was Prince's way of helping her dreams become a reality, even though she walked away before it was made???

That's a really interesting idea I hadn't thought of it but it makes alot of sense. It must have been tough for her to walk away from it all.

I think after the success of PR actually Prince was thinking of quitting touring and becoming a film director. When UTCM got bad reviews that set him back and when Graffitti Bridge bombed that was the end of that idea.

But he was still creating all those video and multimedia experiences in the 90s.

I think the failure of those projects dented his confidence.

.

Regarding UTCM and the whole 30s vibe the set had and Vanity put on her skin on skin album, and the reference to Marilyn in Vanity's Samuelle, I found out that in 1984/85 Prince was absolutely obsessed with Marilyn Monroe and had stuff on her and about her all over his house.

Beachy...i always wondered who the helll ''Marilyn'' was in that song, who was she referring to??? And yesss, Samuelle was definitely about/for Prince.

Annnd Valerie??? In the song, who's she????

.

Also.....I think in that Donnie Simpson interview, while they were playing videos..she must have been singing along to the video bcuz Donnie says ''....and thats yoour friend Samuelle'' and she says yes...i always wondered if they were watching a video from PR movie..like Lets Go Crazy or When Doves Cry bcuz the movie was huge at that time...........just an observation

.

[Edited 5/23/16 17:01pm]

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

That's a really interesting idea I hadn't thought of it but it makes alot of sense. It must have been tough for her to walk away from it all.

I think after the success of PR actually Prince was thinking of quitting touring and becoming a film director. When UTCM got bad reviews that set him back and when Graffitti Bridge bombed that was the end of that idea.

But he was still creating all those video and multimedia experiences in the 90s.

I think the failure of those projects dented his confidence.

.

Regarding UTCM and the whole 30s vibe the set had and Vanity put on her skin on skin album, and the reference to Marilyn in Vanity's Samuelle, I found out that in 1984/85 Prince was absolutely obsessed with Marilyn Monroe and had stuff on her and about her all over his house.

Oh my goodness that you mention that! I had that song in my head ALL night last night after watching the video. I kept trying out figure out who Marilyn was? I mean I figured most likely Marilyn Monroe but didn't how that tied in. I am still trying to figure out why she is calling Prince, Samuelle. There has to be some symbolism with that. What's with the Valerie, Valerie, Valerie part?

Me too I know there must be something. Marilyn Monroe starred in the Prince and the Showgirl with Laurence Olivier but his name was not Samuel in the movie. I can't figure out where Samuelle and Valerie come from. Might be interesting to look at that film again.

.

I hope after the respectful amount of time has passed that friends and associates (personal and business) will post pics of Denise and Prince (never seen) - there has to be some out there.

blue22 said:

Denise said that she left because of money (it was in the Playboy interview). I guess that was a part of it. Maybe pride too. One of the band members, I think it was Fink said in an interview that she wanted more money but had no experience as an actress.

-

Reading this excellent thread it has made me think about the money issue with Prince. We've heard lots of people talk about him not paying much. Jimmy Jam said they were paid $170 per week. That sounds terrible to me. Sheila E's deal when she toured with him was that she paid for everything, so she ended up owing him over a million dollars, which she said she paid back.

-

At the height of their career, the Revolution had to make a ton of money, but maybe they didn't.

-

But he tends to fall out with people over money.

-

Does anyone else know what Prince's issue with money was?

Money was a huge problem for almost everyone who worked with him. They wouldn't get paid at all or get paid peanuts. He did say at some point that he grew up so poor that he barely survived and I bet that played into it but maybe also he actually played music for art not money, so in some ways he was not focused on money. And because he went from zero to huge money overnight, never figured out how to live in the middle?

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

Oh my goodness that you mention that! I had that song in my head ALL night last night after watching the video. I kept trying out figure out who Marilyn was? I mean I figured most likely Marilyn Monroe but didn't how that tied in. I am still trying to figure out why she is calling Prince, Samuelle. There has to be some symbolism with that. What's with the Valerie, Valerie, Valerie part?

Me too I know there must be something. Marilyn Monroe starred in the Prince and the Showgirl with Laurence Olivier but his name was not Samuel in the movie. I can't figure out where Samuelle and Valerie come from. Might be interesting to look at that film again.

.

Hmmmm i always thought The Prince and The Showgirl was a reference to her and Prince

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

That's a really interesting idea I hadn't thought of it but it makes alot of sense. It must have been tough for her to walk away from it all.

I think after the success of PR actually Prince was thinking of quitting touring and becoming a film director. When UTCM got bad reviews that set him back and when Graffitti Bridge bombed that was the end of that idea.

But he was still creating all those video and multimedia experiences in the 90s.

I think the failure of those projects dented his confidence.

.

Regarding UTCM and the whole 30s vibe the set had and Vanity put on her skin on skin album, and the reference to Marilyn in Vanity's Samuelle, I found out that in 1984/85 Prince was absolutely obsessed with Marilyn Monroe and had stuff on her and about her all over his house.

Beachy...i always wondered who the helll ''Marilyn'' was in that song, who was she referring to??? And yesss, Samuelle was definitely about/for Prince.

Annnd Valerie??? In the song, who's she????

.

Also.....I think in that Donnie Simpson interview, while they were playing videos..she must have been singing along to the video bcuz Donnie says ''....and thats yoour friend Samuelle'' and she says yes...i always wondered if they were watching a video from PR movie..like Lets Go Crazy or When Doves Cry bcuz the movie was huge at that time...........just an observation

.

[Edited 5/23/16 17:01pm]

wow mind blown I think Vanity is referring to Madonna. Prince had an affair with her in 1985 very publicized.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/simon.quinn/head.html

.

"One of the finest pieces of tabloid fabrication regarding Prince was the expose in the National Enquirer in 1985. Apparently around that time he was obsessed with Marilyn Monroe and his house was a shrine in her honour. Recall also that in 1984 Monroe's no.1 fan, Madonna, paid tribute to her via the song Material Girl,a parody on Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend, right down to the clothes she wore and the setting of the video, taken exactly from Monroe's song. Naturally, Prince and Madonna dated each other at that time,sharing a mutual respect for each other and revelling in the publicity they created. If The National Enquirer story was true ,(humour me here people!), the question arises, did Prince admire Madonna for who she was or the personality she emulated in the Material Girl video.This was after all the closest Prince would get to the real Monroe.

.

So what did Prince and Madonna really see in each other? She is quoted as saying "Effeminate men intrigue me more than anything in the world.I see them as my alter egos and I feel very drawn to them.I think like a guy, but I'm feminine,so I relate to feminine men." In which case Prince was the man of her dreams, mixing femininity with a latent sexuality equal to her own. Prince has always surrounded himself with strong, sexually-liberated women, look at Vanity 6, Cat, Carmen Electra, (and didn't the single-handedly turn Sheena Easton into the hottest Scot around with Sugar Walls and U Got The Look). Madonna was arguably the most ferociously sexual woman of the 1980s (Margaret Thatcher aside!),and so effortlessly headed the list of headstrong sirens Prince had associated with over the years. Socially Madonna loves to be the sole topic of conversation when with others, whereas Prince has never been one to talk about himself, (never been one to talk period!), so talking about herself would suit both parties quite happily. Sexually,for both of them,presumably anything goes.Neither has shied away from singing about it and both love to practice what they preach. A story surfaced about the two of them steaming up the windows while being chauferred around town on the way to one of his shows,("It gets kinda rough in the back of a limousine",1985) Prince would later reproduce an item of Madonna's lingerie on stage,rubbing it suggestively over his face and body, as U do. A love bizarre indeed!"

.

from Samuelle:

.

Samuelle,this is your lover calling,Samuelle
Samuelle,this is your lover calling
Samuelle,do you belong to Marilyn?
I know she could never love your heart like me
I'm quite sure we belong together

.

Oh Samuelle,you cannot tell a lie
it echoes across the moon and the sky
Valerie,Valerie,Valerie,this is your conscience calling
Valerie,Valerie,Valerie,I don't wanna hear ya
I do recall carnivals were filled up with (Theme of Parade/carnival in Prince's last 2 albums)
crazy guys and paper dolls (Prince wrote a song for Vanity called Katrina's Paper Dolls)
Thought it would last forever.

.

Oh Samuelle,I'm running down the aisle
wedding lace was written all over
I really want you,I really do
I really love you,rap on door
rap on door,ring bell,ring bell
naughty little thing,we may never know
the prince and the showgirl
wonders if never,ever

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

Beachy...i always wondered who the helll ''Marilyn'' was in that song, who was she referring to??? And yesss, Samuelle was definitely about/for Prince.

Annnd Valerie??? In the song, who's she????

.

Also.....I think in that Donnie Simpson interview, while they were playing videos..she must have been singing along to the video bcuz Donnie says ''....and thats yoour friend Samuelle'' and she says yes...i always wondered if they were watching a video from PR movie..like Lets Go Crazy or When Doves Cry bcuz the movie was huge at that time...........just an observation

.

[Edited 5/23/16 17:01pm]

wow mind blown I think Vanity is referring to Madonna. Prince had an affair with her in 1985 very publicized.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/simon.quinn/head.html

.

"One of the finest pieces of tabloid fabrication regarding Prince was the expose in the National Enquirer in 1985. Apparently around that time he was obsessed with Marilyn Monroe and his house was a shrine in her honour. Recall also that in 1984 Monroe's no.1 fan, Madonna, paid tribute to her via the song Material Girl,a parody on Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend, right down to the clothes she wore and the setting of the video, taken exactly from Monroe's song. Naturally, Prince and Madonna dated each other at that time,sharing a mutual respect for each other and revelling in the publicity they created. If The National Enquirer story was true ,(humour me here people!), the question arises, did Prince admire Madonna for who she was or the personality she emulated in the Material Girl video.This was after all the closest Prince would get to the real Monroe.

.

So what did Prince and Madonna really see in each other? She is quoted as saying "Effeminate men intrigue me more than anything in the world.I see them as my alter egos and I feel very drawn to them.I think like a guy, but I'm feminine,so I relate to feminine men." In which case Prince was the man of her dreams, mixing femininity with a latent sexuality equal to her own. Prince has always surrounded himself with strong, sexually-liberated women, look at Vanity 6, Cat, Carmen Electra, (and didn't the single-handedly turn Sheena Easton into the hottest Scot around with Sugar Walls and U Got The Look). Madonna was arguably the most ferociously sexual woman of the 1980s (Margaret Thatcher aside!),and so effortlessly headed the list of headstrong sirens Prince had associated with over the years. Socially Madonna loves to be the sole topic of conversation when with others, whereas Prince has never been one to talk about himself, (never been one to talk period!), so talking about herself would suit both parties quite happily. Sexually,for both of them,presumably anything goes.Neither has shied away from singing about it and both love to practice what they preach. A story surfaced about the two of them steaming up the windows while being chauferred around town on the way to one of his shows,("It gets kinda rough in the back of a limousine",1985) Prince would later reproduce an item of Madonna's lingerie on stage,rubbing it suggestively over his face and body, as U do. A love bizarre indeed!"

.

from Samuelle:

.

Samuelle,this is your lover calling,Samuelle
Samuelle,this is your lover calling
Samuelle,do you belong to Marilyn?
I know she could never love your heart like me
I'm quite sure we belong together

.

Oh Samuelle,you cannot tell a lie
it echoes across the moon and the sky
Valerie,Valerie,Valerie,this is your conscience calling
Valerie,Valerie,Valerie,I don't wanna hear ya
I do recall carnivals were filled up with (Theme of Parade/carnival in Prince's last 2 albums)
crazy guys and paper dolls (Prince wrote a song for Vanity called Katrina's Paper Dolls)
Thought it would last forever.

.

Oh Samuelle,I'm running down the aisle
wedding lace was written all over
I really want you,I really do
I really love you,rap on door
rap on door,ring bell,ring bell
naughty little thing,we may never know
the prince and the showgirl
wonders if never,ever

You know I had a thought that maybe, maybe Marilyn= Madonna. Good find! Thanks for tying that all up. Crazy and bizarre indeed. Vanity/Denise's middle name is Katrina. Now if we can just figure out the "Samuelle" thing, I can put that song out of my mind!

beachy said:

I told you guys I had tried to keep a list of all of Prince's liasons. Here it is, I am sure it is not complete. I don't know if Sheena Easton is confirmed or where to put her. Please feel free to tell me what's wrong or missing if you are at all interested.

For me it was kind of mindblowing. The man had too many options. He lived in a different headspace than us and even Vanity.

.

late 1980- 81 - Susan Moonsie (withdrew romantically and became friends with Vanity)
Jan1981-April 1983 - Vanity (romance cooled on 1999 tour, prof'l rela over in Sept)
Oct 1983 - Apollonia (fling)

Dec1980-early90s - Jill Jones
.

late 1983-Dec 1986 Susannah Melvoin (downgraded Nov 1985 after 'engagement' announced)
1985 - Sherilynn Fenn, Susanna Hoffs, Madonna
Spring 1986 Susannah, Sheila E, Troy Beyer, Jill Jones, Carole Davis,
.
1987-89 - Cat Glover
1986 - 90 - Sheila E (knew since 1978, 'engaged' 1988?)
Dec 1987-91 - Ingrid Chavez
1988/89 Sade, Mathilda May (French actress/singer)
mid1986-early1990 - Anna (Garcia) Fantastic (sex on Dec 31 1988 when she turned 18)

summer1989-Jan90 Kim Basinger
.

July1990-1995 Mayte (as just another hanger on)

1991 Troy Beyer
July1990-93, off/on till 94 Carmen Electra
summer93 -Nona Gaye (until 95),

1993 -Vanessa Marcil

.

July1995-1996 Mayte romance and marriage (1997 cooled way down after son died, divorced 2000)

mid-1998 -2006 Mani (married 2001)
.

2006 Tamar
2007-10 Bria Valente
2011-12 Andy Allo (last confirmed)
2012 -? Damaris Lewis

[Edited 5/23/16 16:53pm]

Too MANY options is right. UGH. Again, if he was indeed celibate in these last few years, it was a HUGE departure from the lifestyle he was living up in this list. Something must have happened to him- an enlightenment of some sort. SOmething.

blue22 said:

Denise said that she left because of money (it was in the Playboy interview). I guess that was a part of it. Maybe pride too. One of the band members, I think it was Fink said in an interview that she wanted more money but had no experience as an actress.

-

Reading this excellent thread it has made me think about the money issue with Prince. We've heard lots of people talk about him not paying much. Jimmy Jam said they were paid $170 per week. That sounds terrible to me. Sheila E's deal when she toured with him was that she paid for everything, so she ended up owing him over a million dollars, which she said she paid back.

-

At the height of their career, the Revolution had to make a ton of money, but maybe they didn't.

-

But he tends to fall out with people over money.

-

Does anyone else know what Prince's issue with money was?

Well this comment is not true

"One of the band members, I think it was Fink said in an interview that she wanted more money but had no experience as an actress" as Denise had already done 3 or 4 movies before she met Prince. And it really seems like Prince was not being fair about what he was paying people generally. By comparison, Vanity made $100,000 for the next movie she made after she left PRN - so it's clear that offering her $5000 for Purple Rain was really not a very clear offer.

kellyna said:

blue22 said:

Denise said that she left because of money (it was in the Playboy interview). I guess that was a part of it. Maybe pride too. One of the band members, I think it was Fink said in an interview that she wanted more money but had no experience as an actress.

-

Reading this excellent thread it has made me think about the money issue with Prince. We've heard lots of people talk about him not paying much. Jimmy Jam said they were paid $170 per week. That sounds terrible to me. Sheila E's deal when she toured with him was that she paid for everything, so she ended up owing him over a million dollars, which she said she paid back.

-

At the height of their career, the Revolution had to make a ton of money, but maybe they didn't.

-

But he tends to fall out with people over money.

-

Does anyone else know what Prince's issue with money was?

Well this comment is not true

"One of the band members, I think it was Fink said in an interview that she wanted more money but had no experience as an actress" as Denise had already done 3 or 4 movies before she met Prince. And it really seems like Prince was not being fair about what he was paying people generally. By comparison, Vanity made $100,000 for the next movie she made after she left PRN - so it's clear that offering her $5000 for Purple Rain was really not a very clear offer.

no you are right it was very low. however, i heard Prince's manager (at the time) discuss this in the last few weeks. And I know a little bit about how movies are financed. The deal was, this was Prince's first film and no film studio was interested to invest. at the same time, Prince wanted to start right away, filming by Thanksgiving. They had no time to go through all the normal channels to get financing and had to find independent financing which is always very very cheap. They just did not have much money to do the film. I think I read she got paid 300k to do Last Dragon but Motown did it and she was signed to them for both music and film, and they had capital.

So I can see the problem from everyone's viewpoint. Prince was both in his God complex since March acting like a 'star' above everyone else. Vanity had virtually no money and could not afford rent. Prince's managers were calling all the shots financially. She got offered a good deal by Motown and took it. She did the right thing at the time,, I just wish she had found more success. I like her albums. Maybe she needed more support in LA and did not get it. Prince worked with her alot at least the year before, now she was in the big city on her own...