The main point being that it appears that Prince was struggling and unhappy at this period, which is an odd thing for a newly wed of 3 months. And he's turning to booze etc. rather than to his wife for consolation over the various stresses. The timing is also suspect especially if Beachy's timeline is correct, it would mean that Prince had met up with Vanity a few weeks before this episode - which would be quite a coincidence wouldn't it?!!! | |
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Didn't he say, "she knows about this one" to The Beautiful Ones? I agree that probably she didn't know about some and maybe wouldn't have guessed based on his behavior. She was following his music though because she called him out on the Emancipation album.
I was looking at the thread that has a link to the lyrics of ALL of Prince's songs and one song caught my eye- Eye Hate U. It's very long, so I won't post lyrics here, but go checked it out. The song was on the Gold Experience which was released in Sept. 1995. Didn't she get married in 1995? Maybe it was a response to her impromptu marriage to the football player? I haven't listened to the song but the lyrics are interesting. [Edited 5/19/16 18:36pm] | |
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Well the truth is that there are so many different versions about Prince and his life out there that it's hard to know what it is the truth. As someone else observed, it seems like Prince was engaged to every woman he ever met and almost all of them got pregnant and had miscarriages (ha!). It makes me laugh when I read some of the other threads on this site as people go and back with great conviction about what songs were written about whom and what they meant etc. I think that's exactly what Prince wanted -- to be abit of an enigma to everyone and to keep people perpetually guessing about him, his life, his loves and what it all meant!!
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Yep - that's what he said when he was singing "The Beautiful Ones" at both of his Melbourne shows! | |
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it was only two months. mid feb to mid april, so eeven more odd | |
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also from 1996, same time as DWD, "Had U". "Come On" lots of nasty songs. maybe thats why Vanity called him out cuz he was recording nasty spiteful songs about HER [Edited 5/19/16 18:54pm] [Edited 5/19/16 18:55pm] | |
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yeah alot of people on the org are reading the books that have been fed by the susannah PR machine and taking it as gospel. I agree he loved mystery and to be the object of speculation, but he also explained to Ebony in the article that got yanked after a day last december that so many people were misinterpreting the songs that it was just too much to correct. He almost called out Susan Rogers by name on this issue, complaining of being psychoanalyzed, and correcting Rogers' attribution of Beautiful Ones, saying it was Vanity. My take is he might have been subtly correcting these pieces of misinformation lately in these shows, because I love u but I don't trust u has commonly been attributed to Mayte, but Prince puts it in a different timeframe when he says the 80s. Rogers also told Hahn and Nilsen that Susannah inspired Adore, but here Prince is not only singing it to Vanity but stopping in the middle and telling a loooong story about Vanity in tribute. Since it was recorded at the end of his relationship with Susannah, I can't even believe it was about her, unless you go with the RogersSusannah narrative that Susannah left him and he was heartbroken. But then why is he sending flowers to Vanity begging her to take him back.
[Edited 5/19/16 18:57pm] [Edited 5/22/16 18:02pm] | |
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He also talked about Beautiful Ones in Dec to Rolling Stones and flat out said it was about Vanity, not someone else | |
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The thing about the flowers and begging her to drop Nikki Sixx was in Nikki's book. It was something he saw for himself. It wasn't a second hand account. Prince did get a kick out of people speculating on who this or that song was about. I have not read any of these books people claim to be about Prince and I probably won't. These people may have known some things and believed to have been close to him, but unless Prince wrote those things himself, then there is a chance it's not true. [Edited 5/19/16 19:06pm] | |
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Interesting - I can imagine it would be irritating to Prince to have people speculating on his work and what it meant, especially if some of it was from associates who were pushing a storyline of their influence or importance in his life. As we were discussing earlier Vanity was one of the very few people in Prince's life that he seemed to have tracked and kept in touch with over the years (maybe not always in contact, but never really cutting ties) - which wasn't the case with almost everyone else including various band members and most of the woman, ex-wives etc. When one looks at what was happening in their lives in the 80s, 90s and and the songs that were written during these periods, like others I am more and more convinced that so many of his songs were written with Vanity in mind. I think it was one way that Prince tried to communicate with Vanity over the decades. | |
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Susannah talks about meeting Prince and Vanity here:
http://www.drfunkenberry.com/2013/08/20/review-the-prince-panel-discussion-with-toure-l-a-reid-susannah-melvoin/ "Lack of home training crosses all boundaries." | |
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Well as others have noted, maybe these women like Suzannah sensed or even realized that Prince had not really gotten over Vanity and still had very strong feelings for her. That might account for why so many of these dalliances were relatively short-lived, hot and heavy for a short period, but eventually petering out when the women realize that Prince's heart already belonged to someone else (Vanity). | |
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yep. I think all these books saying this song was for so and so need to be taken with a grain of salt. The biggest example is the story Rogers told Hahn about the song Wally. Supposedly it was an emotionally honest song of the type that Rogers and W&L thought Prince should be doing. The story goes after Susannah left MPLS, Prince calls Rogers up in the middle of the night to record a song about borrowing $50 and a pair of sunglasses so he can chat up his girl, but then returning them to Wally because it was no use. Rogers immediately assumed he was talking about Susannah. But what if he was talking about Vanity, who was seeing Nikki Sixx at the time? It makes even more sense to me that way. Because how would Susannah be fooled by a pair of sunglasses since she just saw Prince a few days prior? Prince was so disgusted that Rogers would not erase the tracks that he went over and did it himself, then came back in the next day and recorded it with new lyrics. Point being this so called love song about Susannah might not even have been about her!! [Edited 5/19/16 19:25pm] | |
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One song I wonder about was WDC. I know it's been said, in one of those books, that it was about Susan Moonsie. It could be since she was one of those women Prince was with, but in that song, when Prince says, "how could you just leave me standing, alone in a world so cold?" Susan Moonsie hung around the Prince camp for a while, no? I don't think she left him "standing". Again, I could be wrong but it's very fitting for Vanity leaving him. In the song he also says, "maybe you're just like my mother, she's never satisfied". Vanity left because she was not OK, satisfied with Prince's behavior both in business matters and personal-his sexcapades with the others. Again, I could be WAY wrong. If I am, I'll eat crow. [Edited 5/19/16 19:46pm] | |
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I'm glad someone finally mentioned WDC. I have always thought this song was about Vanity. The lyrics are obvious since she left him but I think the real key to his intentions is the video (which he directed himself). In the video when he sings the part "how can you just leave me standing alone in a world that so cold" he is singing into the mirror. He does the same when he says "why do we scream at each other". The mirror is obviously Vanity. Also if you look at the end of the video, the entire video becomes a mirror. He has the split screen image where he is inside the mirror. Prince's music has so many layers to it. It is easy to miss it if you look on the surface only. | |
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GREAT observation. I was talking lyrics alone. I had no idea he directed the video himself. Now off to watch the video! | |
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purplegirl00 said:
GREAT observation. I was talking lyrics alone. I had no idea he directed the video himself. Now off to watch the video! I can't believe with all times of having seen that video, I never picked up on that. He music was multidimensional for sure. | |
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BEVERLY HILLS, CA - MAY 30: Singer Vanity attends the party for Prince on May 30, 1986 at Tramp's in Beverly Hills, California. (Photo by Ron Galella, Ltd./WireImage) U didn't put this in the time line. The yellow outfit that she is wearing looks like the Purple one Prince wore for Parade. [Edited 5/19/16 21:57pm] Keep Calm & Listen To Prince | |
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Yeah Prince was a trip. There are so many cool little things in his music that are there for you to find if you look. | |
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I never knew that this picture was from her attending a party for Prince. I did notice that she is wearing his clothes. Isn't that the outfit that he wears on the Sign of the times inside cover where he is wearing a black coat and the girl is holding up the black heart? | |
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You mean these ones? LOS ANGELES - SEPTEMBER 7: Singer Vanity attends Commitment to Life IV Benefiting AIDS Project Los Angeles on September 7, 1990 at the Wiltern Theater in Los Angeles, California. (Photo by Ron Galella, Ltd./WireImage)
[Edited 5/19/16 22:46pm] Keep Calm & Listen To Prince | |
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scriptgirl said: The pic is of Apples and Susannah. How do we know that Prince wrote Adore for Vanity? Wasn't Prince engaged to Susannah at one point? I am shocked their relationship was so brief-Prince and Susannah, because I had heard always that he was deeply in love with her and that they were maybe 2 years together. Someone, not sure, that engineer woman, can't think of her name, said Susannah was the love of P's life and he wrote Beautiful Ones for her. I think it is said in a book about Prince somewhere.
When Vanity left Prince, it caused a lot of bad blood in the Prince camp-at least it was implied in some books that came out on Prince around the time of Purple Rain's release. The story was that Vanity left because of money and implied that she thought she was better than everyone because she had worked as a model and actress before Prince. Also, it came off that she was some slick girl that had airs and looked down on the Prince camp members as inexperienced bumpkins.
Lisa was the one who said Prince was broken by Vanity leaving, not Wendy.
I also heard that during the Triple threat tour that Vanity was on the bus with the V6 girls and prince was on his own bus and had an ever revolving cast of girls going in and out. The story was that Vanity was too crude and wild for Prince and that is why they split. I read that in a book on P as well.
However you want to spin it, there has always been negativity around Vanity leaving the Prince camp and at the time, the only people who spoke well of her or who were seen with her publically was Morris. I do know that there was some event that Apples was at and Vanity was there and Apples allegedly was not happy to see her-this was donig the A6 period-there is actually a pic of them frm that event and that the pic of Vanity with Susan and Brenda at the American Music Awards in Jan 85, when Vanity presented Prince with his Award-was pretty awkward as well.
One thing I remember reading is that Prince was pretty pissed when Vanity was dating Mickey Free. I think Mickey himself has talked about it and I think he got the cold shoulder from the Prince camp because of his association with Vanity.
I guess I am bemused at all this softness toward Vanity from some Purple Politicians because years ago, when she left, she was a pariah. And like I said, the Revolution members still can't stand her. [Edited 5/19/16 17:37pm] Anybody who was in Prince Inner circle and even his fans know that Vanity was the love of his life. Not Susannah or mayte or Manuela.... none of them . They were fillers... replacements that never worked out... | |
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I was referring to this outfit. There is a better picture of Vanity in this outfit where you can see more of it. I will try to find it. But it looks like the same outfit to me. | |
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Updated Timeline 1985 until 1990, new parts in bold: . 1985 April 2 1985 manager says its Prince's last performance. he will look for the ladder. SISIA . . early 1985 - Vanity interviewed by Donnie Simpson, doesn't think anyone 'owns Prince's heart" . midSept 1985 - Prince, Susannah and his entourage fly to Nice to start filming UTCM. Prince has given Susannah a ring which she wears and Susannah interprets it as a marriage proposal. Right before they left MPLS an article appeared in USAToday that Prince had proposed. Prince was furious. The minute they cleared customs and got to the hotel Prince asked Alan Leeds to take Susannah back to MPLS to his home and not let her go to California where she could cry on W&L's shoulders (Hahn book) . Nov 1985 Sheila E arrives in Nice for a romantic visit with Prince. W&L are upset about it . Nov 1985 The Family is disbanded when the lead singer (Paul) quits. Susannah now will sing backup with the Revolution
late April 1986 Prince persuades Susannah to move out of his house and into a condo in the Lake Calhoun district (25 min drive from PP) after living together for a few months. He began openly dating others: Troy Beyer, Sherilyn Fenn, Carole Davis, model Jackie St. Clair . .
19 Nov 1986 - Prince records Adore . Thanksgiving 1986 Prince is exhausted from working on Crystal Ball and spent the night having dinner, watching videos and falling asleep on his couch at his rented house in Beverly Hills with Susannah and Susan Rogers. .
Dec 1986 Susannah moves back to LA. Dec 28 1986 Prince records 'Wally' .
. 1988 Nov 6, 1988 Vanity attends Prince concert at LA Memorial Sports Arena [Edited 5/20/16 5:44am] [Edited 5/20/16 6:06am] [Edited 5/20/16 6:10am] [Edited 5/20/16 6:12am] | |
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30yearfan said:
I was referring to this outfit. There is a better picture of Vanity in this outfit where you can see more of it. I will try to find it. But it looks like the same outfit to me. It looks the same to me too! These are finds! Good work. This whole thing makes laugh. When I was growing up, I always said I wanted my husband I to wear matching clothes. | |
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I like to believe that Prince loved many women very deeply. I do believe he had love in the latter years of his life, but for privacy sake of others who are grieving, I won't diverge into my thoughts on whom and why I believe so. However, I completely in my heart and soul believe that he never got over Denise Matthews, not one bit. I am sure I love a good story dealing with love, but they were fire and ice. I was not around to witness the pair, I am 23, but seeing it makes so much more sense as to why he was the way he became after that time. I am not comparing his love for Mayte, especially because her fans get very upset and start irrelevant arguments about who he loved more. I think he wanted Denise so badly, and refused to give his lifestyle of womanizing up. She, heavily into drugs with Nikki, and Prince trying to run for her love at every opportunity. I think it was a deep love, two people who were abused who found a healthy affinity for each other and a comfort deeper than just vanity, which is quite funny because that was the name she kept. What she was looking for, she found deeply in Prince, and him her. I am unsure what to make of it.
I find him very interesting, because after she gave her life to Christianity, he almost continued to lure her in and almost possess her with the deviantly sexual/metaphorically religious songs. Her moaning on "Orgasm", he chose to use that sample of her from Vibrator. Yes, it is noted in this post that he was doing it to help her through financial hardship, oddly, but look deeper at that. He knew that the love he was giving her and the love she was giving him back then, especially sexually was enough to stay in her memory. It seems as though he was trying to possess her, reel her back in to him. I am unsure how to explain, but for a sexual song, it actually sounds more touching than does dirty. He recorded that tune and could have done another with other parts of her vocals, but he chose that. "Keep going, keep going, come, come" was like he was reliving the memory of them recording that. I do believe, but what do I know? (nothing, bared in mind), that her death had a tumultuous effect on him. It is ironic that they passed so close together, perhaps it was their fate. I am not sure what to make of it, but I think he loved her more than he loved any woman before her, and he stayed through marriages and evolved through marriages, bandages of women, lust, muses, but I don't think she ever left him. They definitely communicated via his music in the 90s, he was responding to her and what he saw her life become. He mirrored that in a way, and I think he looked up to her as she became the woman that she was destined to be, and him the man he was destined to be through faith. People say Mayte is his true love, but I think it was apparent to many of us, and hose who actually know him, that Denise had a place in his heart that never quite left. He was chasing her like a memory on an escape train, when you think about it. He still knew she was the finest woman in his world, and how oddly she knew too. He got with younger women after her, I think to keep up the excitement of youth that he had so well, but I think it hit him that he could not grow old into a man with Denise. I think it worked out for the best though, because they were fatal for each other when they were younger alive. Him, in love and not understanding, controlling, broken, arrogant, and womanizing, and she broken, fire, and in love.but in death, they are perfect for each other, because their duties of being servants was done. Denise wished for a supernatural meeting and I believe that wherever their souls are, it is together. He waited in vain for her love for a long time, I think, and I believe at his age, and through her death; he realized it more. Prince for the first time, looked back. She was the piece of the puzzle that he couldn't ever position correctly in his life because she kept moving on, and he kept moving on looking for others pieces, but they were flawed. I think it is safe to say that Prince and Vanity were meant to be, even through distance. Their parallel lives. I know she was happy for him, and wished him very well in life, I think for a while Prince resented her, and did everything to rub it in her face until he realized: she was always for him, and happy to see him become a father and a man of more substance than just that of his identity. Sad they never created together, but it was meant to be that in death, they are together again. It is strange, I think his mirrored reflection died and he realized that it was just him alone now, all these years he has been trying to keep up with her, and his "vanity"? Just gone. Otherwise, how can we explain them passing so shortly and next to eachOther? I guess we will never know, but, I know they loved eachOther, and depressed he probably was internally. Rip Prince & "Vanity" aka Denise Matthews, may your love and souls be free and eternal together 😢 [Edited 5/20/16 7:16am] [Edited 5/20/16 7:21am] | |
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beachy said:
yeah alot of people on the org are reading the books that have been fed by the susannah PR machine and taking it as gospel. I agree he loved mystery and to be the object of speculation, but he also explained to rolling stone in the article that got yanked after a day last december that so many people were misinterpreting the songs that it was just too much to correct. He almost called out Susan Rogers by name on this issue, complaining of being psychoanalyzed, and correcting Rogers' attribution of Beautiful Ones, saying it was Vanity. My take is he might have been subtly correcting these pieces of misinformation lately in these shows, because I love u but I don't trust u has commonly been attributed to Mayte, but Prince puts it in a different timeframe when he says the 80s. Rogers also told Hahn and Nilsen that Susannah inspired Adore, but here Prince is not only singing it to Vanity but stopping in the middle and telling a loooong story about Vanity in tribute. Since it was recorded at the end of his relationship with Susannah, I can't even believe it was about her, unless you go with the RogersSusannah narrative that Susannah left him and he was heartbroken. But then why is he sending flowers to Vanity begging her to take him back.
[Edited 5/19/16 18:57pm] Thank u. Yeah P called out several people about The Beautiful One's I thought he was calling out Susan Rogers and Susannah herself. Prince was going off like how dear you you ain't even in the script like that. He put her in her(susannah)place!!! | |
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Excellent post and sums up the picture quite nicely. When she died, she took a piece of him with her. I read an interview he did for Rolling Stone in 2014 and he mentions that he liked listening to soundtracks of movies. One of the ones he listed was The Notebook. Perhaps he saw his relationship with Vanity very similar to that of Noah & Ally.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/princes-lost-rolling-stone-interview-i-dont-think-about-gone-20160422?page=2
So what do you listen to? [Edited 5/20/16 8:37am] | |
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Did anyone read that interview up thread I posted with Susannah? "Lack of home training crosses all boundaries." | |
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Well you know what interesting about the fact that Prince was writing nasty songs about her in 1996 is that you don't write songs about someone you don't care about. What is the expression about there being a "thin line between love and hate." I think Prince was angry with Vanity at that time because he reached out to her after her overdose (flowers, was in touch with her, visited her) and after that event she disowned her previous life and that likely included Prince at that time. Then she turned around and married someone within a year. As we noted throughout this thread, Prince spoke to Vanity through his music and she was listening and called him out about being unhappy as his songs were so negative. As I said in a previous comment "Vanity was one of the few women who didn't let Prince get away with things - she called him on it."
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