purplegirl00 said:

GeniusLuv said:

Well, my sister in law had 2 miscarriages before having 3 healthy kids so that is entirely possible..my co worker just had a another kid last year and she miscarried before, so yeah it haoppens.

.

Mani left him...i am not sure why but she didn't want o be married to him anymiore..she said it was because she wanted a normal life....not show biz which is so funny to me---why marry Prince???? And then Eric Benet???? Craaaaaazy!

.

Well, anyway, i don't know if she miscarried but it was in a few articles i read and with all the women he slept with..and there were A LOT OF THEM its weird none of them had his baby (besides Myte of course) i always wondered how was that possible...look at all these other rock stars, musicians..they have tons of kids, many with different women too, so i dunno......but yes he did want kids, wether or not he suddenly stopped wanting them, maybe after losing his son, because it was so traumatic ..i am not sure but he married Mani awfully fast!!!!!!

I wondered about the breakdown of that marriage too. I had a thought and again, it could be completely unrelated, but when Denise died didn't she make some comment that she had spoken to her on few occasions and she was sweet? Something to that effect? Why would she have spoken to her? He was married to her, early 2000's long after Denise gave up Vanity and not in Hollywood circles. Maybe she figured out that Prince's emotional distance was connected to Denise and maybe she figured out that the whole time Prince was on this quest to replace what he lost with her. Maybe Mani was on to him about that and didn't want that. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't want to be with a man, who's heart belonged to someone else. I'd know that he'd never surrender himself to me completely, if he had already given his heart away.

Maybe..she seemed to really like Denise and said nice things...not threatened by her.

'

And, also after Prince left her he could have married Denise then, i just don't think SHE ever wanted that (maybe not at the same time) from him or his life style..

.

I mean, first she was a crack addict and almost died had 23 surgeries she said dialysis 5 times a week, etc....then she became an evangelist and gave herself over to God completely...so i just don't see then ever coming together at the right time....and i still believe he wanted kids. I don; think you can dismiss that, most men do...i just think it didn't work out for him with the women he tried with..so maybe he just gave up. Sad.

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

Well I think he went through a phase in his 30s where he wanted kids especially after losing his son we all go through that phase but I think for someone whose career is as big as his was, and who is as driven as he was, he also had a side of himself that wanted to be the center of woman's attention. and with that the freedom to have as many women as he wanted. which is not compatible with a settled family life. He could have had kids with Mani there was nothing stopping that and personally without any proof i do not believe she miscarried, since she's had 2 healthy kids since. and sorry but I don't believe Mayte had a second miscarriage so soon after what she went through either. That's just my opinion though. I think he married for emotional insecurity, first the rebound from Denise getting married and the marriage to Mani when his parents died. Plus if he loved Denise and wanted kids, he could have grabbed her hand in 1988 or even 1991 and said lets get out of here and get married, just you and me. Because Denise wanted kids too.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:47pm]

Well, my sister in law had 2 miscarriages before having 3 healthy kids so that is entirely possible..my co worker just had a another kid last year and she miscarried before, so yeah it haoppens.

.

Mani left him...i am not sure why but she didn't want o be married to him anymiore..she said it was because she wanted a normal life....not show biz which is so funny to me---why marry Prince???? And then Eric Benet???? Craaaaaazy!

.

Well, anyway, i don't know if she miscarried but it was in a few articles i read and with all the women he slept with..and there were A LOT OF THEM its weird none of them had his baby (besides Myte of course) i always wondered how was that possible...look at all these other rock stars, musicians..they have tons of kids, many with different women too, so i dunno......but yes he did want kids, wether or not he suddenly stopped wanting them, maybe after losing his son, because it was so traumatic ..i am not sure but he married Mani awfully fast!!!!!!

.

As far as marrying Denise in late 80's early 90's she was a mess!!! She even said over the years she was a crack addict...not a pretty sight!!!!! I just don't think their timing was ever right for that. He was having sex with 3 or 4 girlfriends at once and she was snorting cocaine...yeah...babies NOT A GREAT IDEA!

.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:59pm]

Yes but don't you think she was a mess primarily because she was in love with Prince and his womanizing triggered all her insecurities? If he had been able to commit to her and be faithful, and insisted she get help, I think it might have been a healthy alternative to her religious conversion. That''s just my opinion.

.

Beyond the blind I mentioned, there was someone on here that was from MPLS who said there has been rumors about Prince having children since the early 90s, and that he took care of them financially. I have no idea if its true.

,

I also heard that he was extremely careful in the 90s about using condoms. His assistant had to buy them and he would use hundreds every week. can you imagine? guy was oversexed but careful. Not the behavior of someone looking to settle down and have kids if you ask me but what do I know. I managed to not have kids, and it would have been nice but it wasn't essential. But I did go through a period where I felt it was now or never. Then I got over it.

GeniusLuv said:

purplegirl00 said:

She told Joan Rivers in the interviews from the 80's that she wanted to settle down, get married, and have lots of babies. She was definitely thinking in that direction. Yes, I agree that the amount of "miscarriages" was exaggerated to make the relationships appear more serious that perhaps they were.

Look, i loved Vanity..and even more so Denise and where she took her life..but she was a crack addict. High in almost every interview..she couldn't be a good mom. And like i said in my other post..i added to it..Prince was not faithful nor could he have been a good man for anyone to marry at that time..later may have been diifferent story.

Yes, we cannot subtract her drug abuse from this equation nor his bed hopping. There were many things in their way. I agree but later, as in maybe in the last 5- 10 years or so, it's possible it could've worked out. Look at Prince Charles (another "Prince" ) and Camilla. Those two should've been together from the beginning, not that I think she was prettier than Diana, but those two had a flame going that undeniable.

purplegirl00 said:

GeniusLuv said:

Well, my sister in law had 2 miscarriages before having 3 healthy kids so that is entirely possible..my co worker just had a another kid last year and she miscarried before, so yeah it haoppens.

.

Mani left him...i am not sure why but she didn't want o be married to him anymiore..she said it was because she wanted a normal life....not show biz which is so funny to me---why marry Prince???? And then Eric Benet???? Craaaaaazy!

.

Well, anyway, i don't know if she miscarried but it was in a few articles i read and with all the women he slept with..and there were A LOT OF THEM its weird none of them had his baby (besides Myte of course) i always wondered how was that possible...look at all these other rock stars, musicians..they have tons of kids, many with different women too, so i dunno......but yes he did want kids, wether or not he suddenly stopped wanting them, maybe after losing his son, because it was so traumatic ..i am not sure but he married Mani awfully fast!!!!!!

I wondered about the breakdown of that marriage too. I had a thought and again, it could be completely unrelated, but when Denise died didn't she make some comment that she had spoken to her on few occasions and she was sweet? Something to that effect? Why would she have spoken to her? He was married to her, early 2000's long after Denise gave up Vanity and not in Hollywood circles. Maybe she figured out that Prince's emotional distance was connected to Denise and maybe she figured out that the whole time Prince was on this quest to replace what he lost with her. Maybe Mani was on to him about that and didn't want that. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't want to be with a man, who's heart belonged to someone else. I'd know that he'd never surrender himself to me completely, if he had already given his heart away.

I read on here that in 2003 people at PP parties were remarking how much Mani looked like Vanity and it almost seemed as if Prince had made her over in Vanity's image or that Mani was trying to replace her.

.

Then I heard that prince got involved with Tamar and that is why Mani wanted a divorce.

.

Personally I think Mani was boring. She's got that charity thing and tries to push it every chance she gets but she is fundamentally not creative like all his other girlfriends who are artists of some type. She was a rebound and there is even a song he wrote where he calls it a rebound thing.

.

But you definitely could be right about the emotional distance, I hadn't thought of it like that but it makes alot of sense.

GeniusLuv said:

purplegirl00 said:

I wondered about the breakdown of that marriage too. I had a thought and again, it could be completely unrelated, but when Denise died didn't she make some comment that she had spoken to her on few occasions and she was sweet? Something to that effect? Why would she have spoken to her? He was married to her, early 2000's long after Denise gave up Vanity and not in Hollywood circles. Maybe she figured out that Prince's emotional distance was connected to Denise and maybe she figured out that the whole time Prince was on this quest to replace what he lost with her. Maybe Mani was on to him about that and didn't want that. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't want to be with a man, who's heart belonged to someone else. I'd know that he'd never surrender himself to me completely, if he had already given his heart away.

Maybe..she seemed to really like Denise and said nice things...not threatened by her.

'

And, also after Prince left her he could have married Denise then, i just don't think SHE ever wanted that (maybe not at the same time) from him or his life style..

.

I mean, first she was a crack addict and almost died had 23 surgeries she said dialysis 5 times a week, etc....then she became an evangelist and gave herself over to God completely...so i just don't see then ever coming together at the right time....and i still believe he wanted kids. I don; think you can dismiss that, most men do...i just think it didn't work out for him with the women he tried with..so maybe he just gave up. Sad.

I don't think she felt threatened by her, but she probably figured him out and thought- he'll never be mine 100% so best to cut my losses and go find someone will be for me all the way. So she goes to Eric Oy!

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

Well, my sister in law had 2 miscarriages before having 3 healthy kids so that is entirely possible..my co worker just had a another kid last year and she miscarried before, so yeah it haoppens.

.

Mani left him...i am not sure why but she didn't want o be married to him anymiore..she said it was because she wanted a normal life....not show biz which is so funny to me---why marry Prince???? And then Eric Benet???? Craaaaaazy!

.

Well, anyway, i don't know if she miscarried but it was in a few articles i read and with all the women he slept with..and there were A LOT OF THEM its weird none of them had his baby (besides Myte of course) i always wondered how was that possible...look at all these other rock stars, musicians..they have tons of kids, many with different women too, so i dunno......but yes he did want kids, wether or not he suddenly stopped wanting them, maybe after losing his son, because it was so traumatic ..i am not sure but he married Mani awfully fast!!!!!!

.

As far as marrying Denise in late 80's early 90's she was a mess!!! She even said over the years she was a crack addict...not a pretty sight!!!!! I just don't think their timing was ever right for that. He was having sex with 3 or 4 girlfriends at once and she was snorting cocaine...yeah...babies NOT A GREAT IDEA!

.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:59pm]

Yes but don't you think she was a mess primarily because she was in love with Prince and his womanizing triggered all her insecurities? If he had been able to commit to her and be faithful, and insisted she get help, I think it might have been a healthy alternative to her religious conversion. That''s just my opinion.

.

Beyond the blind I mentioned, there was someone on here that was from MPLS who said there has been rumors about Prince having children since the early 90s, and that he took care of them financially. I have no idea if its true.

,

I also heard that he was extremely careful in the 90s about using condoms. His assistant had to buy them and he would use hundreds every week. can you imagine? guy was oversexed but careful. Not the behavior of someone looking to settle down and have kids if you ask me but what do I know. I managed to not have kids, and it would have been nice but it wasn't essential. But I did go through a period where I felt it was now or never. Then I got over it.

I am right there with you. I am a single woman who thinks about that a lot....i pray God makes it haappen or takes the desire from me..my biologicl clock is about all ticked out..well..maybe a i have a few years left I need a man first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

purplegirl00 said:

GeniusLuv said:

Well, my sister in law had 2 miscarriages before having 3 healthy kids so that is entirely possible..my co worker just had a another kid last year and she miscarried before, so yeah it haoppens.

.

Mani left him...i am not sure why but she didn't want o be married to him anymiore..she said it was because she wanted a normal life....not show biz which is so funny to me---why marry Prince???? And then Eric Benet???? Craaaaaazy!

.

Well, anyway, i don't know if she miscarried but it was in a few articles i read and with all the women he slept with..and there were A LOT OF THEM its weird none of them had his baby (besides Myte of course) i always wondered how was that possible...look at all these other rock stars, musicians..they have tons of kids, many with different women too, so i dunno......but yes he did want kids, wether or not he suddenly stopped wanting them, maybe after losing his son, because it was so traumatic ..i am not sure but he married Mani awfully fast!!!!!!

I wondered about the breakdown of that marriage too. I had a thought and again, it could be completely unrelated, but when Denise died didn't she make some comment that she had spoken to her on few occasions and she was sweet? Something to that effect? Why would she have spoken to her? He was married to her, early 2000's long after Denise gave up Vanity and not in Hollywood circles. Maybe she figured out that Prince's emotional distance was connected to Denise and maybe she figured out that the whole time Prince was on this quest to replace what he lost with her. Maybe Mani was on to him about that and didn't want that. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't want to be with a man, who's heart belonged to someone else. I'd know that he'd never surrender himself to me completely, if he had already given his heart away.

I believe that Vanity had her kidney rejected by her body in the early 2000s and needed surgeries and treatment and prince paid for some and eddie murphy paid for some. that is why I think Vanity and Mani were talking. Notice Mani called them 'interactions' not chats. So it was businesslike.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

I wondered about the breakdown of that marriage too. I had a thought and again, it could be completely unrelated, but when Denise died didn't she make some comment that she had spoken to her on few occasions and she was sweet? Something to that effect? Why would she have spoken to her? He was married to her, early 2000's long after Denise gave up Vanity and not in Hollywood circles. Maybe she figured out that Prince's emotional distance was connected to Denise and maybe she figured out that the whole time Prince was on this quest to replace what he lost with her. Maybe Mani was on to him about that and didn't want that. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't want to be with a man, who's heart belonged to someone else. I'd know that he'd never surrender himself to me completely, if he had already given his heart away.

I believe that Vanity had her kidney rejected by her body in the early 2000s and needed surgeries and treatment and prince paid for some and eddie murphy paid for some. that is why I think Vanity and Mani were talking. Notice Mani called them 'interactions' not chats. So it was businesslike.

True! Forgot about that.

kellyna said:

In so many ways they really were "star-crossed lovers", the deep love was there and from all signs never ended, but there were so many factors that interfered with them being together, other people bad timing, wanting different things at different times, one hurts the other and then the other sort of retaliates with a gesture of "look I've moved on."

I think Prince really hurt Denise when he wasn't loyal to her in the early 1980s and messed around with so many others while he was involved with her. Prince himself said he controlled people because he was afraid if he didn't he'd lose them. And his control was one of the things that drove Vanity away.

Then after she leaves, he realizes that he wants her back and pursues her again and again over the next half dozen years. And because she still loves him, they do intermittently hook up, but similar to his song title, she loves him, but she doesn't trust him. She knows that if he she goes back to him he'll continue to mess around with other women. I think she didn't think he'd ever change. I really got that impression when she answered Donny Simpson's question with "Prince doesn't have just one woman."

And some of it was bravado on Prince's part as he has all of these young women around him, his proteges etc and to Vanity it looked like it was more of the same -- that she wasn't special in his heart, just one of many. It was like Prince was always "pining for Vanity" but he never really told her what she needed to hear. Then she ODs and it shakes him and he seeks her out again, but then she changes her priorities and turns to God and basically regrets Prince and his lifestyle. Then she marries someone else and that's when he starts getting serious with Mayte and marries her. But that he overdoses in May (after only being married for 3 months) maybe says something about his frame of mind.

It's too bad that they didn't manage to really reunite in 1989/ 90 before Vanity had started having all the health problems, they might have really managed to have a future together.

good post. In her diary from 1983 she wrote on the day she left MNPS that she loved him but he would never change.

.

I think part of Prince's problem was the Napoleon Syndrome needing to prove himself as a hetero guy and he felt it was good for his rock star image to be surrounded by women and he also felt entitled as a king.

.

yeah and the overdose is only 2 months after the marriage. its a time should be happy if he wanted to be a father and instead he is trying to commit suicide. Thats what they thought, someone said he had drunk 4 bottles of wine plus a bottle of aspirin. Thats an escape mechanism not a celebration. Why would you do that if you were looking forward desperately to having a child? doesn't make sense to me at all.

purplegirl00 said:

GeniusLuv said:

Look, i loved Vanity..and even more so Denise and where she took her life..but she was a crack addict. High in almost every interview..she couldn't be a good mom. And like i said in my other post..i added to it..Prince was not faithful nor could he have been a good man for anyone to marry at that time..later may have been diifferent story.

Yes, we cannot subtract her drug abuse from this equation nor his bed hopping. There were many things in their way. I agree but later, as in maybe in the last 5- 10 years or so, it's possible it could've worked out. Look at Prince Charles (another "Prince" ) and Camilla. Those two should've been together from the beginning, not that I think she was prettier than Diana, but those two had a flame going that undeniable.

PERFECT EXAMPLE! YES! THANK YOU!!!!

He MARRIED the VIRGIN diana to have his children...the nextking of england and then ran off with his TRUE LOVE-------whom he always wanted----------and when he could get a way with it (not realllly diana knew) he then married her after the divorce.

But see the only thing camilla had going against her was..she was a divorced or a widowed women, not what was acceptable...not a virgin, not suitable princess material...she wasn't a drug addict or in poor health or a evangelical preacher...thats a lot to overcome or prince and vanity could have ended up like camilla and charles...in a way they have...eternally!!!!!!!!!

.

[Edited 5/18/16 20:35pm]

GeniusLuv said:

purplegirl00 said:

I wondered about the breakdown of that marriage too. I had a thought and again, it could be completely unrelated, but when Denise died didn't she make some comment that she had spoken to her on few occasions and she was sweet? Something to that effect? Why would she have spoken to her? He was married to her, early 2000's long after Denise gave up Vanity and not in Hollywood circles. Maybe she figured out that Prince's emotional distance was connected to Denise and maybe she figured out that the whole time Prince was on this quest to replace what he lost with her. Maybe Mani was on to him about that and didn't want that. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't want to be with a man, who's heart belonged to someone else. I'd know that he'd never surrender himself to me completely, if he had already given his heart away.

Maybe..she seemed to really like Denise and said nice things...not threatened by her.

'

And, also after Prince left her he could have married Denise then, i just don't think SHE ever wanted that (maybe not at the same time) from him or his life style..

.

I mean, first she was a crack addict and almost died had 23 surgeries she said dialysis 5 times a week, etc....then she became an evangelist and gave herself over to God completely...so i just don't see then ever coming together at the right time....and i still believe he wanted kids. I don; think you can dismiss that, most men do...i just think it didn't work out for him with the women he tried with..so maybe he just gave up. Sad.

Denise wanted it, she said so. She finally in 2002 gave it over to God to work out because it was driving her nuts. With her newfound religion, then Prince going to a different faith (JW) that was 2 more obstacles in the way. You would have thought that at least they could have chosen the same religion, but NO....

Not all men want kids. My husband did not want them and had his tubes tied. He also was an artist. Artists are very selfish because they know kids will take over their lives. Remember the scene in PR where Prince's father says 'Never get married' its because marriage and kids destroyed his artistic ambitions and he was never able to focus on his music.

beachy said:

kellyna said:

In so many ways they really were "star-crossed lovers", the deep love was there and from all signs never ended, but there were so many factors that interfered with them being together, other people bad timing, wanting different things at different times, one hurts the other and then the other sort of retaliates with a gesture of "look I've moved on."

I think Prince really hurt Denise when he wasn't loyal to her in the early 1980s and messed around with so many others while he was involved with her. Prince himself said he controlled people because he was afraid if he didn't he'd lose them. And his control was one of the things that drove Vanity away.

Then after she leaves, he realizes that he wants her back and pursues her again and again over the next half dozen years. And because she still loves him, they do intermittently hook up, but similar to his song title, she loves him, but she doesn't trust him. She knows that if he she goes back to him he'll continue to mess around with other women. I think she didn't think he'd ever change. I really got that impression when she answered Donny Simpson's question with "Prince doesn't have just one woman."

And some of it was bravado on Prince's part as he has all of these young women around him, his proteges etc and to Vanity it looked like it was more of the same -- that she wasn't special in his heart, just one of many. It was like Prince was always "pining for Vanity" but he never really told her what she needed to hear. Then she ODs and it shakes him and he seeks her out again, but then she changes her priorities and turns to God and basically regrets Prince and his lifestyle. Then she marries someone else and that's when he starts getting serious with Mayte and marries her. But that he overdoses in May (after only being married for 3 months) maybe says something about his frame of mind.

It's too bad that they didn't manage to really reunite in 1989/ 90 before Vanity had started having all the health problems, they might have really managed to have a future together.

good post. In her diary from 1983 she wrote on the day she left MNPS that she loved him but he would never change.

.

I think part of Prince's problem was the Napoleon Syndrome needing to prove himself as a hetero guy and he felt it was good for his rock star image to be surrounded by women and he also felt entitled as a king.

.

yeah and the overdose is only 2 months after the marriage. its a time should be happy if he wanted to be a father and instead he is trying to commit suicide. Thats what they thought, someone said he had drunk 4 bottles of wine plus a bottle of aspirin. Thats an escape mechanism not a celebration. Why would you do that if you were looking forward desperately to having a child? doesn't make sense to me at all.

.

This is the first time i heard Prince tried to commit suicide!!!!!

GeniusLuv said:

purplegirl00 said:

Yes, we cannot subtract her drug abuse from this equation nor his bed hopping. There were many things in their way. I agree but later, as in maybe in the last 5- 10 years or so, it's possible it could've worked out. Look at Prince Charles (another "Prince" ) and Camilla. Those two should've been together from the beginning, not that I think she was prettier than Diana, but those two had a flame going that undeniable.

PERFECT EXAMPLE! YES! THANK YOU!!!!

He MARRIED the VIRGIN diana to have his children...the nextking of england and then ran off with his TRUE LOVE-------whom he always wanted----------and when he could get a way with it (not realllly diana knew) he then married her after the divorce.

But see the only thing camilla had going against her was..she was a divorced or a widowed women, not what was acceptable...not a virgin, not suitable princess material...she wasn't a drug addict or in poor health or a evangelical preacher...thats a lot to overcome or prince and vanity could have ended up like camilla and charles...in a way they have...eternally!!!!!!!!!

.

[Edited 5/18/16 20:35pm]

Charles was just like Prince in that he felt entitled to have both a wife and a mistress. And just like Vanity Diana was a modern woman who was not going to look the other way, otherwise everything would have gone smoothly in the time honored british tradition. lol I actually loved diana she was sweet and vulnerable but hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and camilla was unnecessarily condescending and patronizing which humiliated her. I was living in London at the time and had a front row seat as my ex husband had connections in the palace and knew people who worked directly for charles and diana.

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

good post. In her diary from 1983 she wrote on the day she left MNPS that she loved him but he would never change.

.

I think part of Prince's problem was the Napoleon Syndrome needing to prove himself as a hetero guy and he felt it was good for his rock star image to be surrounded by women and he also felt entitled as a king.

.

yeah and the overdose is only 2 months after the marriage. its a time should be happy if he wanted to be a father and instead he is trying to commit suicide. Thats what they thought, someone said he had drunk 4 bottles of wine plus a bottle of aspirin. Thats an escape mechanism not a celebration. Why would you do that if you were looking forward desperately to having a child? doesn't make sense to me at all.

.

This is the first time i heard Prince tried to commit suicide!!!!!

oops

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

PERFECT EXAMPLE! YES! THANK YOU!!!!

He MARRIED the VIRGIN diana to have his children...the nextking of england and then ran off with his TRUE LOVE-------whom he always wanted----------and when he could get a way with it (not realllly diana knew) he then married her after the divorce.

But see the only thing camilla had going against her was..she was a divorced or a widowed women, not what was acceptable...not a virgin, not suitable princess material...she wasn't a drug addict or in poor health or a evangelical preacher...thats a lot to overcome or prince and vanity could have ended up like camilla and charles...in a way they have...eternally!!!!!!!!!

.

[Edited 5/18/16 20:35pm]

Charles was just like Prince in that he felt entitled to have both a wife and a mistress. And just like Vanity Diana was a modern woman who was not going to look the other way, otherwise everything would have gone smoothly in the time honored british tradition. lol I actually loved diana she was sweet and vulnerable but hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and camilla was unnecessarily condescending and patronizing which humiliated her. I was living in London at the time and had a front row seat as my ex husband had connections in the palace and knew people who worked directly for charles and diana.

I liked Diana too, i get Charles wasn't in love..and had to marry her (or another suitable woman) but she diidn't deserve that treatment....i guess Charles and Camilla were destined 2 always be a couple, he does love her obviously, to go through all that to be 2gether you must realllllllllly want the person and Charles wanted Camilla!

'

That was my point about P & V they could have if they wanted to, if they felt it was worth it or even possible.

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

Maybe..she seemed to really like Denise and said nice things...not threatened by her.

'

And, also after Prince left her he could have married Denise then, i just don't think SHE ever wanted that (maybe not at the same time) from him or his life style..

.

I mean, first she was a crack addict and almost died had 23 surgeries she said dialysis 5 times a week, etc....then she became an evangelist and gave herself over to God completely...so i just don't see then ever coming together at the right time....and i still believe he wanted kids. I don; think you can dismiss that, most men do...i just think it didn't work out for him with the women he tried with..so maybe he just gave up. Sad.

Denise wanted it, she said so. She finally in 2002 gave it over to God to work out because it was driving her nuts. With her newfound religion, then Prince going to a different faith (JW) that was 2 more obstacles in the way. You would have thought that at least they could have chosen the same religion, but NO....

Not all men want kids. My husband did not want them and had his tubes tied. He also was an artist. Artists are very selfish because they know kids will take over their lives. Remember the scene in PR where Prince's father says 'Never get married' its because marriage and kids destroyed his artistic ambitions and he was never able to focus on his music.

Yep, even though they were both moving in similar direction spiritually, the faiths they each chose are very different and presented more issues. I would've love to have been a fly on the wall for when Denise witnessed to him- person (if she did). First, just to see their reactions to seeing each other and then to see how deep the conversation(s) went. I think it's hard to witness to someone whom you're in love with and have had a tumultous past with.

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

Charles was just like Prince in that he felt entitled to have both a wife and a mistress. And just like Vanity Diana was a modern woman who was not going to look the other way, otherwise everything would have gone smoothly in the time honored british tradition. lol I actually loved diana she was sweet and vulnerable but hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and camilla was unnecessarily condescending and patronizing which humiliated her. I was living in London at the time and had a front row seat as my ex husband had connections in the palace and knew people who worked directly for charles and diana.

I liked Diana too, i get Charles wasn't in love..and had to marry her (or another suitable woman) but she diidn't deserve that treatment....i guess Charles and Camilla were destined 2 always be a couple, he does love her obviously, to go through all that to be 2gether you must realllllllllly want the person and Charles wanted Camilla!

'

That was my point about P & V they could have if they wanted to, if they felt it was worth it or even possible.

I get your point but on the Charles / Camilla thing its not so simple. sure they had a strong attraction but Camilla did not want to be burdened with the responsibilites of being the wife of a Prince. She said so. It was much more convenient for her to be the mistress. It was Charles mostly out of stubborness and his authoritarian streak who decided he was going to force the people to accept his choice no matter who it was. He was trying to prove a point by then.

And all did not live happily ever after, once married to charles finally camilla had to face the reality of the responsibliities and got the grumpy side of him instead of the fun side of him which is all she had as his mistress. She has a house in the country she escapes to in order to get away from him now. oh the irony.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

I wondered about the breakdown of that marriage too. I had a thought and again, it could be completely unrelated, but when Denise died didn't she make some comment that she had spoken to her on few occasions and she was sweet? Something to that effect? Why would she have spoken to her? He was married to her, early 2000's long after Denise gave up Vanity and not in Hollywood circles. Maybe she figured out that Prince's emotional distance was connected to Denise and maybe she figured out that the whole time Prince was on this quest to replace what he lost with her. Maybe Mani was on to him about that and didn't want that. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't want to be with a man, who's heart belonged to someone else. I'd know that he'd never surrender himself to me completely, if he had already given his heart away.

I read on here that in 2003 people at PP parties were remarking how much Mani looked like Vanity and it almost seemed as if Prince had made her over in Vanity's image or that Mani was trying to replace her.

.

Then I heard that prince got involved with Tamar and that is why Mani wanted a divorce.

.

Personally I think Mani was boring. She's got that charity thing and tries to push it every chance she gets but she is fundamentally not creative like all his other girlfriends who are artists of some type. She was a rebound and there is even a song he wrote where he calls it a rebound thing.

.

But you definitely could be right about the emotional distance, I hadn't thought of it like that but it makes alot of sense.

That is what Prince was trying to do all this time. Recreate her in someone else or find someone who fit that square peg, but all the women he attempted turned out to be a circle.

kellyna said:

In so many ways they really were "star-crossed lovers", the deep love was there and from all signs never ended, but there were so many factors that interfered with them being together, other people bad timing, wanting different things at different times, one hurts the other and then the other sort of retaliates with a gesture of "look I've moved on."

I think Prince really hurt Denise when he wasn't loyal to her in the early 1980s and messed around with so many others while he was involved with her. Prince himself said he controlled people because he was afraid if he didn't he'd lose them. And his control was one of the things that drove Vanity away.

Then after she leaves, he realizes that he wants her back and pursues her again and again over the next half dozen years. And because she still loves him, they do intermittently hook up, but similar to his song title, she loves him, but she doesn't trust him. She knows that if he she goes back to him he'll continue to mess around with other women. I think she didn't think he'd ever change. I really got that impression when she answered Donny Simpson's question with "Prince doesn't have just one woman."

And some of it was bravado on Prince's part as he has all of these young women around him, his proteges etc and to Vanity it looked like it was more of the same -- that she wasn't special in his heart, just one of many. It was like Prince was always "pining for Vanity" but he never really told her what she needed to hear. Then she ODs and it shakes him and he seeks her out again, but then she changes her priorities and turns to God and basically regrets Prince and his lifestyle. Then she marries someone else and that's when he starts getting serious with Mayte and marries her. But that he overdoses in May (after only being married for 3 months) maybe says something about his frame of mind.

It's too bad that they didn't manage to really reunite in 1989/ 90 before Vanity had started having all the health problems, they might have really managed to have a future together.

Yes, good summary! His overdose after only being married 3 months should've been a huge red flag that he was not in a good place emotionally.

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

Denise wanted it, she said so. She finally in 2002 gave it over to God to work out because it was driving her nuts. With her newfound religion, then Prince going to a different faith (JW) that was 2 more obstacles in the way. You would have thought that at least they could have chosen the same religion, but NO....

Not all men want kids. My husband did not want them and had his tubes tied. He also was an artist. Artists are very selfish because they know kids will take over their lives. Remember the scene in PR where Prince's father says 'Never get married' its because marriage and kids destroyed his artistic ambitions and he was never able to focus on his music.

Yep, even though they were both moving in similar direction spiritually, the faiths they each chose are very different and presented more issues. I would've love to have been a fly on the wall for when Denise witnessed to him- person (if she did). First, just to see their reactions to seeing each other and then to see how deep the conversation(s) went. I think it's hard to witness to someone whom you're in love with and have had a tumultous past with.

yeah my problem with it (and I lived it for many years until I slowly loosened its grip on me and I am much happier now and I think even more spiritual than being in such a dogmatism but I digress) is that it puts this ulterior agenda front and center. Basically you are issuing an ultimatum. If the person you love doesn't believe EXACTLY LIKE YOU then you have to walk away and love them from afar. We can admire Denise for getting rid of the drugs and I do but lets be clear, her faith was no replacement for the love of Prince. Her pastor tried to teach her that it was but the problem with it is that spiritual love is a completely different thing, and on a different plane. I disagree with the dogmatism and actually Prince became the same way, forcing mani and bria to become JW or he would not be with them. I get it but with prince and vanity I feel it was unnecessary. they both were sincerely spiritual and should have gotten it together instead of playing the game of who has the correct faith.

purplegirl00 said:

kellyna said:

In so many ways they really were "star-crossed lovers", the deep love was there and from all signs never ended, but there were so many factors that interfered with them being together, other people bad timing, wanting different things at different times, one hurts the other and then the other sort of retaliates with a gesture of "look I've moved on."

I think Prince really hurt Denise when he wasn't loyal to her in the early 1980s and messed around with so many others while he was involved with her. Prince himself said he controlled people because he was afraid if he didn't he'd lose them. And his control was one of the things that drove Vanity away.

Then after she leaves, he realizes that he wants her back and pursues her again and again over the next half dozen years. And because she still loves him, they do intermittently hook up, but similar to his song title, she loves him, but she doesn't trust him. She knows that if he she goes back to him he'll continue to mess around with other women. I think she didn't think he'd ever change. I really got that impression when she answered Donny Simpson's question with "Prince doesn't have just one woman."

And some of it was bravado on Prince's part as he has all of these young women around him, his proteges etc and to Vanity it looked like it was more of the same -- that she wasn't special in his heart, just one of many. It was like Prince was always "pining for Vanity" but he never really told her what she needed to hear. Then she ODs and it shakes him and he seeks her out again, but then she changes her priorities and turns to God and basically regrets Prince and his lifestyle. Then she marries someone else and that's when he starts getting serious with Mayte and marries her. But that he overdoses in May (after only being married for 3 months) maybe says something about his frame of mind.

It's too bad that they didn't manage to really reunite in 1989/ 90 before Vanity had started having all the health problems, they might have really managed to have a future together.

Yes, good summary! His overdose after only being married 3 months should've been a huge red flag that he was not in a good place emotionally.

Wow I didn't know Prince overdosed on Asprin etc in 1996, learn something new....but why when he and Mayte were expecting a baby?

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

I read on here that in 2003 people at PP parties were remarking how much Mani looked like Vanity and it almost seemed as if Prince had made her over in Vanity's image or that Mani was trying to replace her.

.

Then I heard that prince got involved with Tamar and that is why Mani wanted a divorce.

.

Personally I think Mani was boring. She's got that charity thing and tries to push it every chance she gets but she is fundamentally not creative like all his other girlfriends who are artists of some type. She was a rebound and there is even a song he wrote where he calls it a rebound thing.

.

But you definitely could be right about the emotional distance, I hadn't thought of it like that but it makes alot of sense.

That is what Prince was trying to do all this time. Recreate her in someone else or find someone who fit that square peg, but all the women he attempted turned out to be a circle.

I agree. Many of them were ''Vanity'' lookalikes..these twenty year old girls all had a HUGE resemblance..especially Mani, i completely agree....and even that girl Bria Valente..in some photos, she looked just like Vanity. He was trying to find that 23 year old girl he met at the awards show 30 years ago...only problem was they weren't her!!!!!

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

I liked Diana too, i get Charles wasn't in love..and had to marry her (or another suitable woman) but she diidn't deserve that treatment....i guess Charles and Camilla were destined 2 always be a couple, he does love her obviously, to go through all that to be 2gether you must realllllllllly want the person and Charles wanted Camilla!

'

That was my point about P & V they could have if they wanted to, if they felt it was worth it or even possible.

I get your point but on the Charles / Camilla thing its not so simple. sure they had a strong attraction but Camilla did not want to be burdened with the responsibilites of being the wife of a Prince. She said so. It was much more convenient for her to be the mistress. It was Charles mostly out of stubborness and his authoritarian streak who decided he was going to force the people to accept his choice no matter who it was. He was trying to prove a point by then.

And all did not live happily ever after, once married to charles finally camilla had to face the reality of the responsibliities and got the grumpy side of him instead of the fun side of him which is all she had as his mistress. She has a house in the country she escapes to in order to get away from him now. oh the irony.

I was thinking along the lines of the bolded but yikes on the Camilla and Prince Charles thing. She got more than she bargained for and maybe not in a good way. I don't think would've been the case with P & V.

purplegirl00 said:

kellyna said:

In so many ways they really were "star-crossed lovers", the deep love was there and from all signs never ended, but there were so many factors that interfered with them being together, other people bad timing, wanting different things at different times, one hurts the other and then the other sort of retaliates with a gesture of "look I've moved on."

I think Prince really hurt Denise when he wasn't loyal to her in the early 1980s and messed around with so many others while he was involved with her. Prince himself said he controlled people because he was afraid if he didn't he'd lose them. And his control was one of the things that drove Vanity away.

Then after she leaves, he realizes that he wants her back and pursues her again and again over the next half dozen years. And because she still loves him, they do intermittently hook up, but similar to his song title, she loves him, but she doesn't trust him. She knows that if he she goes back to him he'll continue to mess around with other women. I think she didn't think he'd ever change. I really got that impression when she answered Donny Simpson's question with "Prince doesn't have just one woman."

And some of it was bravado on Prince's part as he has all of these young women around him, his proteges etc and to Vanity it looked like it was more of the same -- that she wasn't special in his heart, just one of many. It was like Prince was always "pining for Vanity" but he never really told her what she needed to hear. Then she ODs and it shakes him and he seeks her out again, but then she changes her priorities and turns to God and basically regrets Prince and his lifestyle. Then she marries someone else and that's when he starts getting serious with Mayte and marries her. But that he overdoses in May (after only being married for 3 months) maybe says something about his frame of mind.

It's too bad that they didn't manage to really reunite in 1989/ 90 before Vanity had started having all the health problems, they might have really managed to have a future together.

Yes, good summary! His overdose after only being married 3 months should've been a huge red flag that he was not in a good place emotionally.

This. plus he never, as far as I know, offered her monogamy or exclusivity. Yet he expected it from her. Part of it I think is his stardom. The other part is his upbringing, basically abandoned by his parents and not able to really love in a good healthy way. I think to survive he had to build a wall around his emotions at a very early age.

Goddess4Real said:

purplegirl00 said:

Yes, good summary! His overdose after only being married 3 months should've been a huge red flag that he was not in a good place emotionally.

Wow I didn't know Prince overdosed on Asprin etc in 1996, learn something new....but why when he and Mayte were expecting a baby?

.

ah.....the million dollar question....indeed....

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

Yep, even though they were both moving in similar direction spiritually, the faiths they each chose are very different and presented more issues. I would've love to have been a fly on the wall for when Denise witnessed to him- person (if she did). First, just to see their reactions to seeing each other and then to see how deep the conversation(s) went. I think it's hard to witness to someone whom you're in love with and have had a tumultous past with.

yeah my problem with it (and I lived it for many years until I slowly loosened its grip on me and I am much happier now and I think even more spiritual than being in such a dogmatism but I digress) is that it puts this ulterior agenda front and center. Basically you are issuing an ultimatum. If the person you love doesn't believe EXACTLY LIKE YOU then you have to walk away and love them from afar. We can admire Denise for getting rid of the drugs and I do but lets be clear, her faith was no replacement for the love of Prince. Her pastor tried to teach her that it was but the problem with it is that spiritual love is a completely different thing, and on a different plane. I disagree with the dogmatism and actually Prince became the same way, forcing mani and bria to become JW or he would not be with them. I get it but with prince and vanity I feel it was unnecessary. they both were sincerely spiritual and should have gotten it together instead of playing the game of who has the correct faith.

Hmmmm see now i thought she swapped one addiction for another??? It was give up the drugs in exchange for your health, life AND the religion????

.

She swapped the drug use for Christ and took back her life...i never looked at it as it was u must choose God over Prince..i think she still loved Prince (as he did her) but she needed to to be EXTREME by giving herself to God in order to stay live, LEAVE THAT LIFE 100% and kick drugs for good. The fact that she didn't die is really a miracle in itself...she lived 23 years past her death sentence. That wouldn't have happened if she went back to him i believe.

.

She obviously had an addictive personality..went from one extreme to another..just different sides of the spectrum i thought.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

Yep, even though they were both moving in similar direction spiritually, the faiths they each chose are very different and presented more issues. I would've love to have been a fly on the wall for when Denise witnessed to him- person (if she did). First, just to see their reactions to seeing each other and then to see how deep the conversation(s) went. I think it's hard to witness to someone whom you're in love with and have had a tumultous past with.

yeah my problem with it (and I lived it for many years until I slowly loosened its grip on me and I am much happier now and I think even more spiritual than being in such a dogmatism but I digress) is that it puts this ulterior agenda front and center. Basically you are issuing an ultimatum. If the person you love doesn't believe EXACTLY LIKE YOU then you have to walk away and love them from afar. We can admire Denise for getting rid of the drugs and I do but lets be clear, her faith was no replacement for the love of Prince. Her pastor tried to teach her that it was but the problem with it is that spiritual love is a completely different thing, and on a different plane. I disagree with the dogmatism and actually Prince became the same way, forcing mani and bria to become JW or he would not be with them. I get it but with prince and vanity I feel it was unnecessary. they both were sincerely spiritual and should have gotten it together instead of playing the game of who has the correct faith.

YES, YES, and more YES to all of this. I'm very glad she found something that truely helped her get her life in order but I do think it hurt her chances with ever reuniting with Prince. I thought that reflection her pastor gave the day after Prince died was nice, but the whole she found a more sustaining love in Jesus kinda rubbed me wrong. The other thing I thought was sad was in that preaching video when Denise talks about Prince, she says that she gave up Prince for the Prince of Peace. You then see her wiping a tear from under glasses. This was just a few years ago. As a Christian, I do not believe that having a husband and Christ in your life are two mutually exclusive things. I think Denise felt as though they were. I like that Prince cleaned up his act a bit since his conversion (not sure I believe the celibacy for obvious reasons),but I think he too went legalistic with it which in turn probably hurt the chances for reuniting with Denise.

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

yeah my problem with it (and I lived it for many years until I slowly loosened its grip on me and I am much happier now and I think even more spiritual than being in such a dogmatism but I digress) is that it puts this ulterior agenda front and center. Basically you are issuing an ultimatum. If the person you love doesn't believe EXACTLY LIKE YOU then you have to walk away and love them from afar. We can admire Denise for getting rid of the drugs and I do but lets be clear, her faith was no replacement for the love of Prince. Her pastor tried to teach her that it was but the problem with it is that spiritual love is a completely different thing, and on a different plane. I disagree with the dogmatism and actually Prince became the same way, forcing mani and bria to become JW or he would not be with them. I get it but with prince and vanity I feel it was unnecessary. they both were sincerely spiritual and should have gotten it together instead of playing the game of who has the correct faith.

Hmmmm see now i thought she swapped one addiction for another??? It was give up the drugs in exchange for your health, life AND the religion????

.

She swapped the drug use for Christ and took back her life...i never looked at it as it was u must choose God over Prince..i think she still loved Prince (as he did her) but she needed to to be EXTREME by giving herself to God in order to stay live, LEAVE THAT LIFE 100% and kick drugs for good. The fact that she didn't die is really a miracle in itself...she lived 23 years past her death sentence. That wouldn't have happened if she went back to him i believe.

.

She obviously had an addictive personality..went from one extreme to another..just different sides of the spectrum i thought.

well this is going to be where I differ with Denise and I apologize if this offends anybody but I feel entitled to say this because for many many years I had to give up the possibility of men I was personally attracted to because it conflicted with my faith, the exact faith that Denise espoused. And here is where this idea ceases to be just life saving and moves into dogmatism and an extreme passivity to life. If you notice what we loved about Denise and Prince was they came from nothing and made something out of themselves with their talents and ambition. This faith then turns around and teaches you to cast all your problems on God. In practical terms that meant Vanity removed her name from the waiting list for a new kidney, because God would solve the problem if He wanted to. In regards to prince it meant that rather than learn new ways of interacting with people and controlling addictions, she made it a CONDITION that he accept Christ as his Saviour in precisely the way she believed and had been taught by the Harpers. so essentially taking herself out of the game. And said, if God wants me to talk to Prince He will put Prince on my phone. The problem was that to do that Prince would have had to give up his career entirely and basically become a christian singer. Thank God he did not do that.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

Yes, good summary! His overdose after only being married 3 months should've been a huge red flag that he was not in a good place emotionally.

This. plus he never, as far as I know, offered her monogamy or exclusivity. Yet he expected it from her. Part of it I think is his stardom. The other part is his upbringing, basically abandoned by his parents and not able to really love in a good healthy way. I think to survive he had to build a wall around his emotions at a very early age.

Right! In some of the songs, that I'm pretty sure were about her, he sings about the "other guys".

Like in '17 days' (which I love BTW), he says, "Called you yesterday..You didn't answer your phone..The main drag is knowing that..You probably weren't alone..So here I sit in my lonely room..Lookin' for my sunshine..But all I've got is two cigarettes..And this broken heart of mine".

There he goes refering to her being with someone else, well, what about all HIS someone elses? There are others I'm sure. That one popped in my head cause I was listening to it today.

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

Hmmmm see now i thought she swapped one addiction for another??? It was give up the drugs in exchange for your health, life AND the religion????

.

She swapped the drug use for Christ and took back her life...i never looked at it as it was u must choose God over Prince..i think she still loved Prince (as he did her) but she needed to to be EXTREME by giving herself to God in order to stay live, LEAVE THAT LIFE 100% and kick drugs for good. The fact that she didn't die is really a miracle in itself...she lived 23 years past her death sentence. That wouldn't have happened if she went back to him i believe.

.

She obviously had an addictive personality..went from one extreme to another..just different sides of the spectrum i thought.

well this is going to be where I differ with Denise and I apologize if this offends anybody but I feel entitled to say this because for many many years I had to give up the possibility of men I was personally attracted to because it conflicted with my faith, the exact faith that Denise espoused. And here is where this idea ceases to be just life saving and moves into dogmatism and an extreme passivity to life. If you notice what we loved about Denise and Prince was they came from nothing and made something out of themselves with their talents and ambition. This faith then turns around and teaches you to cast all your problems on God. In practical terms that meant Vanity removed her name from the waiting list for a new kidney, because God would solve the problem if He wanted to. In regards to prince it meant that rather than learn new ways of interacting with people and controlling addictions, she made it a CONDITION that he accept Christ as his Saviour in precisely the way she believed and had been taught by the Harpers. so essentially taking herself out of the game. And said, if God wants me to talk to Prince He will put Prince on my phone. The problem was that to do that Prince would have had to give up his career entirely and basically become a christian singer. Thank God he did not do that.

Yes and I'm a Christian. I could envision the "witnessing" going in that direction. Maybe this is why we did not see a reunion of them in this life. Perhaps this was the one of the last hurdles Denise had and it's one Prince could not jump.