Goddess4Real said:

purplegirl00 said:

Sounds like they maybe aftethe coat exchange in the bathroom happened afterall and they came out of there with her as his "wife" I did see that interview with Donnie Simpson. Wasn't that the one where she has a stuffed gorilla with her. I always wondered what meant. Didn't Apples call him "king kong" in the movie? I wonder if thats what she called Prince.

In the original script for Purple Rain Vanity calls him King Kong. Apples was just her replacement. She was good, but Vanity was the original, the blueprint.

[Edited 5/18/16 17:05pm]

Goddess4Real said:

purplegirl00 said:

Sounds like they maybe aftethe coat exchange in the bathroom happened afterall and they came out of there with her as his "wife" I did see that interview with Donnie Simpson. Wasn't that the one where she has a stuffed gorilla with her. I always wondered what meant. Didn't Apples call him "king kong" in the movie? I wonder if thats what she called Prince.

In the original script for Purple Rain Vanity calls him King Kong. Apples was just her replacement. She was good, but Vanity was the original, the blueprint.

[Edited 5/18/16 17:05pm]

That's what I thought!

beachy said:

Lmao you can hear Poem online here if you don't have ivault:

http://tidido.com/a35184372117695/al5432a719196dee63468c0474/t5433f103196dee9e1494e72e

That's two albums of the early 90s now that were inspired at least in part by Vanity. The other one being Diamonds and Pearls. I guess they were playing the long game.

[Edited 5/18/16 11:45am]

Just listened to Poem (thanks for posting the link) - that's crazy :lol:and you're right Prince was definitely sending some kind of message to her - ha!

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

I listened to the clip while I was working and I was not able to continue listening. My line of work requires a lot of reading and concentration. Sounds like the same cut from Vibrator/ Orgasm? Wasn't he married to Mayte at the time of the release of this? WHY didn't he just record Mayte?

Here are the events which i have found sources for. Feel free to give me more facts, especially if there is some real source.

.

July 1990 Prince meets Mayte in europe and starts a penpal relationship. She is 16. The same year he meets Carmen Electra, invites her to PP and starts creating her image. He has a brief relationship with Kim Basinger.

.

summer 1991 Vanity gets saved

Oct 1 1991 Prince releases album Diamonds and Pearls, the name inspired by Vanity's art which she gave him.He goes on tour with Carmen as his opening act. He is also seeing Troy Beyer and she is visiting him. Mayte has joined tour as a dancer and is travelling with him.

Dec 1991 begins recording the symbol album

.

1992 Vanity goes on talk shows (Hard Copy, Joan Rivers) talking about leaving her name and lifestyle behind. She gets several films to do and accepts them. She is very negative about the lifestyle she associates with Prince and says he controlled her financially forcing her to do V6 his way. Vanities all is vanity is what she quotes from Ecclesiastes. She says she was so far into drug addiction and seeing psychics that demons were after her around her bed and she was levitating.

.

2 Jan 1993 Prince records "Dark"

early 1993 Prince creates the track 'Poem' out of words from Song of Solomon, Vanity's recordings and a guitar solo from 1981. (not released yet)

summer 1993 Prince starts seeing Nona Gaye who is 18. Mayte is 19 had come to live with Prince. He is also seeing Carmen.

.

Jan 1994 LA earthquake spooks Vanity and she moves north to SF area

1994 Vanity has a relapse and ODs this time it was life threatening. 3 days in hospital and she nearly dies. She had a stroke, a heart attack, lost her hearing and eyesight, and the use of both kidneys. Prince sends dozens of purple roses with 1 white rose. He prays for her a whole day. She eventually recovers and this time completely leaves Hollywood behind and fully commits to Jesus.

Spring-Summer 1994 Prince edits "Poem' to create 'Orgasm'

Aug 1994 Prince releases the album Come. the song 'Poem' has been chopped up and distributed as segues between the tracks of the album and the song Orgasm is placed at the end, with liner notes "she knows". The whole album thus ends with Vanity's moans and Prince's words 'I love you'. It is reported he did this to help her financially. Finally his on/off relationship with Carmen ends

.

March 1995 She marries Anthony Smith in March after knowing him a month. They are featured in Jet on the cover in April. It is reported that Prince is shocked. early 1995 is also the time that Prince is said to develop a full blown romance with Mayte (per Hahn's book Possesed).

.

early 1996 Prince and Mayte are engaged. at this time he stops seeing Nona.

Feb 14 1996 Prince marries Mayte who is pregnant.

Early April 1996 - Prince records Dinner With Delores, supposedly written about a dinner he had recently with Vanity that turned out bad

April 21 1996 - Prince is found unconscious, OD'd on aspirin and wine, rushed to ER

Autumn 1996 -Prince records Dionne, One Of Your Tears

1996 Vanity divorces Smith after abuse

Oct 1996 Prince's son is born with birth defects and lives one week. Prince becomes withdrawn. His album Emancipation comes out at same time and he is forced to do publicity.Vanity remarks publicly that the songs sound dark and she is worried for him. He is quoted in a magazine interview that everything is fine, that his marriage is good, everyone thought he would marry Vanity. He says that like her, he is now connected to his spirit.

.

1997 Prince tours alot, playing 100 nights and is almost never home with Mayte. At some time during his tour Vanity goes to a Prince concert and meets (?) with him.

1997 Vanity has a kidney transplant.

.

mid 1998 Prince buys the Marbella mansion for Mayte and exiles her there. He promotes Mani to PA and starts an affair with her.

.

spring 1999 - Prince records Eye Love U, But Eye Don't Trust You Anymore, and Strange but True

.

[Edited 5/18/16 17:12pm]

[Edited 5/18/16 17:27pm]

[Edited 5/18/16 17:30pm]

Nice timeline Beachy and it looks accurate! I know Prince changed his name to the sometime in the early 90's to signal his issues with Warner Bros. was it around the same time Vanity went back to being Denise?

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

I just heard/watched the "I Love You But I Don't Trust You Anymore" Montreux version and wow! . What emotion he had there. After he sings this lyric,"I would never pick the flower of my favorite protege" he says, "It's better now." I wonder what he means? What is better now? Did anyone catch that? He spoke it like the 80's comment.

I remember meeting you here in the good old days (The 80s)

I would never pick the flower of my favorite protege (It's better now.)

Maybe if I would have you would not treat me this way

You tricked me but you will not anymore.

I love you, but I don't trust you anymore.

==

I don't get it either

I just listened to the version of the song - it was beautiful and so poignant the way Prince sang it. I loved the way he switches in the middle of the song saying "I know you trust me, but you don't love me anymore, no" (that's so sad!).

And I don't think the line "I would never pick the flower of my favourit protege" is a reference to violence, I'm not sure what it is referring to. And I heard the two parts where he speaks (good old days and better now). I saw on google that the song was released in 1999 and it certainly sounds like it's referencing their relationship over the years. Some of the lyrics seem to speak of the 1990s where Vanity turns away from the whole Vanity persona and that life, so maybe he felt she was turning away from him. And the line "I've always given you the best" - makes me reference maybe him sending her flowers after the overdose and maybe even visiting her - and she doesn't treat him well because she ends up turning her back on that life - goes off and marries somebody else etc.

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

I remember meeting you here in the good old days (The 80s)

I would never pick the flower of my favorite protege (It's better now.)

Maybe if I would have you would not treat me this way

You tricked me but you will not anymore.

I love you, but I don't trust you anymore.

==

I don't get it either

I will put my psycho therapy cap back on again....

Like him ''picking'' the flower of his favorite girl (hurting her) he is saying things are better now between them...the pain is gone, the difficult years. Thats what i got when i read the lyrics..things got better..possibly as the years went on, maturity, aging, new paths, spirituality...many things contribute to people improving in life.....

.

When was this written?

Not sure when it was actually written as Prince seems to have so many songs that he wrote years before he ever released them, but it was released in 1999. I like your interpretation about "picking the flower of his favourite girl" signifying hurting her (emotionally as opposed to physically). But I also think that the lyrics probably reflect the back and forth, on and off between them for so many years. And at this point he still loves her, but he doesn't trust her anymore.

good idea about the name change, he announced it June 7, 1993. Ill edit the original post and add it.

.

One thing I noticed about the timeline is all these other women around Prince, he's got a harem going on. But when I read the Hahn book it also mentions how Nona felt the relationship lacked emotional intimacy, and Mayte said she was kept at arms length and not allowed to phone him. Only when Vanity got married did he start developing a romantic relationship with her. So that tells me it was kind of a rebound thing. He was not emotionally involved with these women, they were sex objects and harem girls.

I just watched the 1985 interview that Vanity did with Donnie Simpson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qVe7uLIKVQ

and a couple of the segments were interesting. At about the 10 minute mark she talks about leaving Minneapolis and she says,

"I was unhappy about leaving and they were unhappy about me leaving" (I'm assuming that they is referring to Prince as we heard that he was heartbroken when she left - Wendy said it in an interview).

Then at the 12 minutes mark, Donnie asks her "Who is Prince's woman at the moment" and she replies "Prince doesn't have a woman, not one." then she goes on to clarify "one that owns his heart" and Donnie says "yeah" and she replies "I don't know, you tell me" but there's something about her response that seems sad and she looks down when she answers him.

kellyna said:

beachy said:

I remember meeting you here in the good old days (The 80s)

I would never pick the flower of my favorite protege (It's better now.)

Maybe if I would have you would not treat me this way

You tricked me but you will not anymore.

I love you, but I don't trust you anymore.

==

I don't get it either

I just listened to the version of the song - it was beautiful and so poignant the way Prince sang it. I loved the way he switches in the middle of the song saying "I know you trust me, but you don't love me anymore, no" (that's so sad!).

And I don't think the line "I would never pick the flower of my favourit protege" is a reference to violence, I'm not sure what it is referring to. And I heard the two parts where he speaks (good old days and better now). I saw on google that the song was released in 1999 and it certainly sounds like it's referencing their relationship over the years. Some of the lyrics seem to speak of the 1990s where Vanity turns away from the whole Vanity persona and that life, so maybe he felt she was turning away from him. And the line "I've always given you the best" - makes me reference maybe him sending her flowers after the overdose and maybe even visiting her - and she doesn't treat him well because she ends up turning her back on that life - goes off and marries somebody else etc.

That makes sense, especially with the "you tricked me" part.

For those of you who were able to listen to the Melbourne tribute to Vanity he sang a song by Bob Marley called Waiting in Vain (for your love), it was so beautiful and you could hear the pain his voice.

I've been listening to the song 'Papa' on the Come album and wondering if it is actually about Vanity and her father who died when she was fifteen but abused her physically and emotionally and possibly sexually since she mentions molestation in an interview from 2009. If so it is kind of a nice message from Prince to her while recovering from her OD and near death because it ends with love and a rainbow.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

I listened to the clip while I was working and I was not able to continue listening. My line of work requires a lot of reading and concentration. Sounds like the same cut from Vibrator/ Orgasm? Wasn't he married to Mayte at the time of the release of this? WHY didn't he just record Mayte?

Here are the events which i have found sources for. Feel free to give me more facts, especially if there is some real source.

.

July 1990 Prince meets Mayte in europe and starts a penpal relationship. She is 16. The same year he meets Carmen Electra, invites her to PP and starts creating her image. He has a brief relationship with Kim Basinger.

.

summer 1991 Vanity gets saved

Oct 1 1991 Prince releases album Diamonds and Pearls, the name inspired by Vanity's art which she gave him.He goes on tour with Carmen as his opening act. He is also seeing Troy Beyer and she is visiting him. Mayte has joined tour as a dancer and is travelling with him.

Dec 1991 begins recording the symbol album

.

1992 Vanity goes on talk shows (Hard Copy, Joan Rivers) talking about leaving her name and lifestyle behind. She gets several films to do and accepts them. She is very negative about the lifestyle she associates with Prince and says he controlled her financially forcing her to do V6 his way. Vanities all is vanity is what she quotes from Ecclesiastes. She says she was so far into drug addiction and seeing psychics that demons were after her around her bed and she was levitating.

October 13, 1992 - Prince releases the Symbol album

.

2 Jan 1993 Prince records "Dark"

early 1993 Prince creates the track 'Poem' out of words from Song of Solomon, Vanity's recordings and a guitar solo from 1981. (not released yet)

June 7, 1993 - Prince renounces his name and adopts the symbol

summer 1993 Prince starts seeing Nona Gaye who is 18. Mayte is 19 had come to live with Prince. He is also seeing Carmen.

.

Jan 1994 LA earthquake spooks Vanity and she moves north to SF area

1994 Vanity has a relapse and ODs this time it was life threatening. 3 days in hospital and she nearly dies. She had a stroke, a heart attack, lost her hearing and eyesight, and the use of both kidneys. Prince sends dozens of purple roses with 1 white rose. He prays for her a whole day. She eventually recovers and this time completely leaves Hollywood behind and fully commits to Jesus.

Spring-Summer 1994 Prince edits "Poem' to create 'Orgasm'

Aug 1994 Prince releases the album Come. the song 'Poem' has been chopped up and distributed as segues between the tracks of the album and the song Orgasm is placed at the end, with liner notes "she knows". The whole album thus ends with Vanity's moans and Prince's words 'I love you'. It is reported he did this to help her financially. Finally his on/off relationship with Carmen ends

.

March 1995 She marries Anthony Smith in March after knowing him a month. They are featured in Jet on the cover in April. It is reported that Prince is shocked. early 1995 is also the time that Prince is said to develop a full blown romance with Mayte (per Hahn's book Possesed).

.

early 1996 Prince and Mayte are engaged. at this time he stops seeing Nona.

Feb 14 1996 Prince marries Mayte who is pregnant.

Early April 1996 - Prince records Dinner With Delores, supposedly written about a dinner he had recently with Vanity that turned out bad

April 21 1996 - Prince is found unconscious, OD'd on aspirin and wine, rushed to ER

Autumn 1996 -Prince records Dionne, One Of Your Tears

1996 Vanity divorces Smith after abuse

Oct 1996 Prince's son is born with birth defects and lives one week. Prince becomes withdrawn. His album Emancipation comes out at same time and he is forced to do publicity.Vanity remarks publicly that the songs sound dark and she is worried for him. He is quoted in a magazine interview that everything is fine, that his marriage is good, everyone thought he would marry Vanity. He says that like her, he is now connected to his spirit.

.

1997 Prince tours alot, playing 100 nights and is almost never home with Mayte. At some time during his tour Vanity goes to a Prince concert and meets (?) with him.

1997 Vanity has a kidney transplant.

.

mid 1998 Prince buys the Marbella mansion for Mayte and exiles her there. He promotes Mani to PA and starts an affair with her.

.

spring 1999 - Prince records Eye Love U, But Eye Don't Trust You Anymore, and Strange but True

.

[Edited 5/18/16 17:12pm]

[Edited 5/18/16 17:27pm]

[Edited 5/18/16 17:30pm]

[Edited 5/18/16 18:38pm]

Once again Beachy - excellent research!!! The timeline really starts to illustrate that Vanity and Prince were on and off for much longer than people realized, that at the very least they were still involved in each other's lives to some extent and in touch. I find it interesting that they both seemed to be keeping track of what each other was doing, up to the point that where she disowned her past life in 1994. And they were definitely speaking to each other either through the media and through the music. And obviously she was listening to Prince's music that she was able to comment on the Emanicipation Album and she was right about being concerned for him, because that was the period when he lost his son (and faked it abit with the media saying the baby was fine when he had actually died) and people said he had a very difficult time dealing with death and it was one of the things that drove him to JW religion. They both knew each other too well and that connection was one of the reasons their relationship was so special.

I always thought that both Mayte and Mani were rebound romances. Not that Prince didn't care for them, but they really were both fan girls, much younger etc. I think it was demonstrated by the fact that he didn't make any effort to have any kind of relationship afterwards.

The longer this thread goes on (and look at the way we've strung it to 26 pages ) I am more convinced that Prince never really got over Denise. And whether she knew it or not "she was the one who captured his heart" (see my reference to the Donnie Simpson which I posted earlier) and I think she remained there till the end!

[Edited 5/18/16 18:56pm]

[Edited 5/18/16 18:58pm]

beachy said:

I've been listening to the song 'Papa' on the Come album and wondering if it is actually about Vanity and her father who died when she was fifteen but abused her physically and emotionally and possibly sexually since she mentions molestation in an interview from 2009. If so it is kind of a nice message from Prince to her while recovering from her OD and near death because it ends with love and a rainbow.

interesting! thanks.

i just feel comfort in thinking that almost everything was about Denise. She has become like a key to the mystery of Prince for me.

purplegirl00 said:

kellyna said:

I just listened to the version of the song - it was beautiful and so poignant the way Prince sang it. I loved the way he switches in the middle of the song saying "I know you trust me, but you don't love me anymore, no" (that's so sad!).

And I don't think the line "I would never pick the flower of my favourit protege" is a reference to violence, I'm not sure what it is referring to. And I heard the two parts where he speaks (good old days and better now). I saw on google that the song was released in 1999 and it certainly sounds like it's referencing their relationship over the years. Some of the lyrics seem to speak of the 1990s where Vanity turns away from the whole Vanity persona and that life, so maybe he felt she was turning away from him. And the line "I've always given you the best" - makes me reference maybe him sending her flowers after the overdose and maybe even visiting her - and she doesn't treat him well because she ends up turning her back on that life - goes off and marries somebody else etc.

That makes sense, especially with the "you tricked me" part.

For those of you who were able to listen to the Melbourne tribute to Vanity he sang a song by Bob Marley called Waiting in Vain (for your love), it was so beautiful and you could hear the pain his voice.

tricked him = when she got married after his flowers in hospital and songs on album Come that showed love in 1994 after she OD'd?

.

and she was saying in 1992 how he controlled her and wouldn't pay her unless she did what he said, he says here he gave her the best of everything

.

would not pick the flower = maybe it means that he thought he showed her love rather than treating her like a meaningless fling and using her. although she might have seen it differently. But many women he used and threw away like a flower picked and wilted. He didn't see it as control so much as a way to keep her there so she wouldn't leave him (what he told the journalist on the documentary) with Denise he kept the flame going

.

make any sense?

.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:12pm]

[Edited 5/18/16 20:18pm]

PURplEMaPLeSyrup said:

beachy said:

I've been listening to the song 'Papa' on the Come album and wondering if it is actually about Vanity and her father who died when she was fifteen but abused her physically and emotionally and possibly sexually since she mentions molestation in an interview from 2009. If so it is kind of a nice message from Prince to her while recovering from her OD and near death because it ends with love and a rainbow.

interesting! thanks.

i just feel comfort in thinking that almost everything was about Denise. She has become like a key to the mystery of Prince for me.

yes! for me too! that's exactly how I feel. It also makes Prince more vulnerable and human instead of just a rock star womanizer.

PURplEMaPLeSyrup said:

beachy said:

I've been listening to the song 'Papa' on the Come album and wondering if it is actually about Vanity and her father who died when she was fifteen but abused her physically and emotionally and possibly sexually since she mentions molestation in an interview from 2009. If so it is kind of a nice message from Prince to her while recovering from her OD and near death because it ends with love and a rainbow.

interesting! thanks.

i just feel comfort in thinking that almost everything was about Denise. She has become like a key to the mystery of Prince for me.

Me too. I believe you are right. She is weaved through many of his songs.

In fact, even though we have drug this topic 26 pgs now , it has definitely soften the blow of Prince's death. It's brought me comfort.

1996 is a really interesting year, look at this sequence. Dude just got married and his wife is pregnant and he's recording songs about Denise all through the year and OD'ing.

.

early 1996 Prince and Mayte are engaged. at this time he stops seeing Nona.

Feb 14 1996 Prince marries Mayte who is pregnant.

Early April 1996 - Prince records Dinner With Delores, supposedly written about a dinner he had recently with Vanity that turned out bad

April 21 1996 - Prince is found unconscious, OD'd on aspirin and wine, rushed to ER

Autumn 1996 -Prince records Dionne, One Of Your Tears

1996 Vanity divorces Smith after abuse

Oct 1996 Prince's son is born with birth defects and lives one week. Prince becomes withdrawn. His album Emancipation comes out at same time and he is forced to do publicity.Vanity remarks publicly that the songs sound dark and she is worried for him. He is quoted in a magazine interview that everything is fine, that his marriage is good, everyone thought he would marry Vanity. He says that like her, he is now connected to his spirit.

beachy said:

1996 is a really interesting year, look at this sequence. Dude just got married and his wife is pregnant and he's recording songs about Denise all through the year and OD'ing.

.

early 1996 Prince and Mayte are engaged. at this time he stops seeing Nona.

Feb 14 1996 Prince marries Mayte who is pregnant.

Early April 1996 - Prince records Dinner With Delores, supposedly written about a dinner he had recently with Vanity that turned out bad

April 21 1996 - Prince is found unconscious, OD'd on aspirin and wine, rushed to ER

Autumn 1996 -Prince records Dionne, One Of Your Tears

1996 Vanity divorces Smith after abuse

Oct 1996 Prince's son is born with birth defects and lives one week. Prince becomes withdrawn. His album Emancipation comes out at same time and he is forced to do publicity.Vanity remarks publicly that the songs sound dark and she is worried for him. He is quoted in a magazine interview that everything is fine, that his marriage is good, everyone thought he would marry Vanity. He says that like her, he is now connected to his spirit.

Maybe her OD in 1994 had to with his getting close to Mayte?

purplegirl00 said:

kellyna said:

I just listened to the version of the song - it was beautiful and so poignant the way Prince sang it. I loved the way he switches in the middle of the song saying "I know you trust me, but you don't love me anymore, no" (that's so sad!).

And I don't think the line "I would never pick the flower of my favourit protege" is a reference to violence, I'm not sure what it is referring to. And I heard the two parts where he speaks (good old days and better now). I saw on google that the song was released in 1999 and it certainly sounds like it's referencing their relationship over the years. Some of the lyrics seem to speak of the 1990s where Vanity turns away from the whole Vanity persona and that life, so maybe he felt she was turning away from him. And the line "I've always given you the best" - makes me reference maybe him sending her flowers after the overdose and maybe even visiting her - and she doesn't treat him well because she ends up turning her back on that life - goes off and marries somebody else etc.

That makes sense, especially with the "you tricked me" part.

For those of you who were able to listen to the Melbourne tribute to Vanity he sang a song by Bob Marley called Waiting in Vain (for your love), it was so beautiful and you could hear the pain his voice.

Nice lyrics. but... I don't get why he didn't just give up the other girls and marry Denise. Its not like he avoided marriage in the end he married Mayte because Denise married someone else?

Maybe too proud. And yes Denise had a bad drug problem and then she had a religious agenda. So the romance was off I guess.. did I answer my own question?

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

1996 is a really interesting year, look at this sequence. Dude just got married and his wife is pregnant and he's recording songs about Denise all through the year and OD'ing.

.

early 1996 Prince and Mayte are engaged. at this time he stops seeing Nona.

Feb 14 1996 Prince marries Mayte who is pregnant.

Early April 1996 - Prince records Dinner With Delores, supposedly written about a dinner he had recently with Vanity that turned out bad

April 21 1996 - Prince is found unconscious, OD'd on aspirin and wine, rushed to ER

Autumn 1996 -Prince records Dionne, One Of Your Tears

1996 Vanity divorces Smith after abuse

Oct 1996 Prince's son is born with birth defects and lives one week. Prince becomes withdrawn. His album Emancipation comes out at same time and he is forced to do publicity.Vanity remarks publicly that the songs sound dark and she is worried for him. He is quoted in a magazine interview that everything is fine, that his marriage is good, everyone thought he would marry Vanity. He says that like her, he is now connected to his spirit.

Maybe her OD in 1994 had to with his getting close to Mayte?

yes even though according to Hahn he kept Mayte emotionally at arm's length until 1995, in 1994 Prince owned nightclubs in MPLS, Miami Beach and Los Angeles. Prince would go and play at them and Mayte would be his partner dancing on the stage, just the 2 of them. They looked like a couple. And then you have the woman in her 30s vs Mayte who was just 20, and that never feels good. I'm pretty sure its one reason she relapsed. Feeling old and washed up and rejected for a younger woman.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

Maybe her OD in 1994 had to with his getting close to Mayte?

yes even though according to Hahn he kept Mayte emotionally at arm's length until 1995, in 1994 Prince owned nightclubs in MPLS, Miami Beach and Los Angeles. Prince would go and play at them and Mayte would be his partner dancing on the stage, just the 2 of them. They looked like a couple. And then you have the woman in her 30s vs Mayte who was just 20, and that never feels good. I'm pretty sure its one reason she relapsed. Feeling old and washed up and rejected for a younger woman.

Definitely could send someone into despair.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

That makes sense, especially with the "you tricked me" part.

For those of you who were able to listen to the Melbourne tribute to Vanity he sang a song by Bob Marley called Waiting in Vain (for your love), it was so beautiful and you could hear the pain his voice.

Nice lyrics. but... I don't get why he didn't just give up the other girls and marry Denise. Its not like he avoided marriage in the end he married Mayte because Denise married someone else?

Maybe too proud. And yes Denise had a bad drug problem and then she had a religious agenda. So the romance was off I guess.. did I answer my own question?

Honestly..i think he wanted kids.

.

And he knew she couldn't have children with him. Even though he may have still loved her and on some level wanted to be with her (she was really into her religion though) whcih could have also been a factor, i think he reeeeeally wanted biological ''genius musician protegee children'' such as himself...this is just my opinion...but i do feel, as much as he may have still felt for her, he couldn't have ''the life'' he wanted with her. When he lost his son..i think it made him more determined to have ''That family life'' that eluded him....and then in walks Manuela, and well....she toook off....

.

Now what is so ironic is he married TWO hottie, 20 somethings, young ones if you will and still couldn't have that family he wanted. He told Oprah he wanted ''kids crawling all over him..'' he had a playroom all set up to fill with his children so thats my belief..ironic it couldn't happen with the two young thangs he married though..guess thats a life lesson in itself?

.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:39pm]

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

Nice lyrics. but... I don't get why he didn't just give up the other girls and marry Denise. Its not like he avoided marriage in the end he married Mayte because Denise married someone else?

Maybe too proud. And yes Denise had a bad drug problem and then she had a religious agenda. So the romance was off I guess.. did I answer my own question?

Honestly..i think he wanted kids.

.

And he knew she couldn't have children with him. Even though he may have still loved her and on some level wanted to be with her (she was really into her religion though) whcih could have also been a factor, i think he reeeeeally wanted biological ''genius musician protegee children'' such as himself...this is just my opinion...but i do feel, as much as he may have still felt for her, he couldn't have ''the life'' he wanted with her. When he lost his son..i think it made him more determined to have ''That family life'' that eluded him....and then in walks Manuela, and well....she toook off....

.

Now what is so ironic is he married TWO hottie, 20 somethings, young ones if you will and still couldn't have that family he wanted. He told Oprah he wanted ''kids crawling all over him..'' he had a playroom all set up to fill with his children so thats my belief..ironic it couldn't happen with the two young thangs he married though..guess thats a life lesson in itself?

.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:39pm]

Well I think he went through a phase in his 30s where he wanted kids especially after losing his son we all go through that phase but I think for someone whose career is as big as his was, and who is as driven as he was, he also had a side of himself that wanted to be the center of woman's attention. and with that the freedom to have as many women as he wanted. which is not compatible with a settled family life. He could have had kids with Mani there was nothing stopping that and personally without any proof i do not believe she miscarried, since she's had 2 healthy kids since. and sorry but I don't believe Mayte had a second miscarriage so soon after what she went through either. That's just my opinion though. I think he married for emotional insecurity, first the rebound from Denise getting married and the marriage to Mani when his parents died. Plus if he loved Denise and wanted kids, he could have grabbed her hand in 1988 or even 1991 and said lets get out of here and get married, just you and me. Because Denise wanted kids too. Oh yeah and Troy Beyer rumor is that she had a miscarriage too. Too many coincidences. I think some are made up to make the relationships appear stronger. Typically I believe miscarriages have more to do with the womb/hormone situation in the woman than the sperm.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:47pm]

[Edited 5/18/16 19:49pm]

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

I listened to the clip while I was working and I was not able to continue listening. My line of work requires a lot of reading and concentration. Sounds like the same cut from Vibrator/ Orgasm? Wasn't he married to Mayte at the time of the release of this? WHY didn't he just record Mayte?

Here are the events which i have found sources for. Feel free to give me more facts, especially if there is some real source.

.

July 1990 Prince meets Mayte in europe and starts a penpal relationship. She is 16. The same year he meets Carmen Electra, invites her to PP and starts creating her image. He has a brief relationship with Kim Basinger.

.

summer 1991 Vanity gets saved

Oct 1 1991 Prince releases album Diamonds and Pearls, the name inspired by Vanity's art which she gave him.He goes on tour with Carmen as his opening act. He is also seeing Troy Beyer and she is visiting him. Mayte has joined tour as a dancer and is travelling with him.

Dec 1991 begins recording the symbol album

.

1992 Vanity goes on talk shows (Hard Copy, Joan Rivers) talking about leaving her name and lifestyle behind. She gets several films to do and accepts them. She is very negative about the lifestyle she associates with Prince and says he controlled her financially forcing her to do V6 his way. Vanities all is vanity is what she quotes from Ecclesiastes. She says she was so far into drug addiction and seeing psychics that demons were after her around her bed and she was levitating.

October 13, 1992 - Prince releases the Symbol album

.

2 Jan 1993 Prince records "Dark"

early 1993 Prince creates the track 'Poem' out of words from Song of Solomon, Vanity's recordings and a guitar solo from 1981. (not released yet)

June 7, 1993 - Prince renounces his name and adopts the symbol

summer 1993 Prince starts seeing Nona Gaye who is 18. Mayte is 19 had come to live with Prince. He is also seeing Carmen.

.

Jan 1994 LA earthquake spooks Vanity and she moves north to SF area

1994 Vanity has a relapse and ODs this time it was life threatening. 3 days in hospital and she nearly dies. She had a stroke, a heart attack, lost her hearing and eyesight, and the use of both kidneys. Prince sends dozens of purple roses with 1 white rose. He prays for her a whole day. She eventually recovers and this time completely leaves Hollywood behind and fully commits to Jesus.

Spring-Summer 1994 Prince edits "Poem' to create 'Orgasm'

Aug 1994 Prince releases the album Come. the song 'Poem' has been chopped up and distributed as segues between the tracks of the album and the song Orgasm is placed at the end, with liner notes "she knows". The whole album thus ends with Vanity's moans and Prince's words 'I love you'.

wow thanks for piecing this all together -- cleared up a lot for me!

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

That makes sense, especially with the "you tricked me" part.

For those of you who were able to listen to the Melbourne tribute to Vanity he sang a song by Bob Marley called Waiting in Vain (for your love), it was so beautiful and you could hear the pain his voice.

Nice lyrics. but... I don't get why he didn't just give up the other girls and marry Denise. Its not like he avoided marriage in the end he married Mayte because Denise married someone else?

Maybe too proud. And yes Denise had a bad drug problem and then she had a religious agenda. So the romance was off I guess.. did I answer my own question?

There was pride, tit for tat, and extremes all rolled into one.

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

Nice lyrics. but... I don't get why he didn't just give up the other girls and marry Denise. Its not like he avoided marriage in the end he married Mayte because Denise married someone else?

Maybe too proud. And yes Denise had a bad drug problem and then she had a religious agenda. So the romance was off I guess.. did I answer my own question?

There was pride, tit for tat, and extremes all rolled into one.

oh yes. I had a relationship like that. It ended very similarly. He married a girl out of the blue who looked exactly like me and even had the same nationality. I cut him out of my life the day I found out and never looked back. And yes if I had been a songwriter there would have been lots of sad ballads about that. Its better now. (maybe thats what Prince meant too lol)

[Edited 5/18/16 20:17pm]

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

Honestly..i think he wanted kids.

.

And he knew she couldn't have children with him. Even though he may have still loved her and on some level wanted to be with her (she was really into her religion though) whcih could have also been a factor, i think he reeeeeally wanted biological ''genius musician protegee children'' such as himself...this is just my opinion...but i do feel, as much as he may have still felt for her, he couldn't have ''the life'' he wanted with her. When he lost his son..i think it made him more determined to have ''That family life'' that eluded him....and then in walks Manuela, and well....she toook off....

.

Now what is so ironic is he married TWO hottie, 20 somethings, young ones if you will and still couldn't have that family he wanted. He told Oprah he wanted ''kids crawling all over him..'' he had a playroom all set up to fill with his children so thats my belief..ironic it couldn't happen with the two young thangs he married though..guess thats a life lesson in itself?

.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:39pm]

Well I think he went through a phase in his 30s where he wanted kids especially after losing his son we all go through that phase but I think for someone whose career is as big as his was, and who is as driven as he was, he also had a side of himself that wanted to be the center of woman's attention. and with that the freedom to have as many women as he wanted. which is not compatible with a settled family life. He could have had kids with Mani there was nothing stopping that and personally without any proof i do not believe she miscarried, since she's had 2 healthy kids since. and sorry but I don't believe Mayte had a second miscarriage so soon after what she went through either. That's just my opinion though. I think he married for emotional insecurity, first the rebound from Denise getting married and the marriage to Mani when his parents died. Plus if he loved Denise and wanted kids, he could have grabbed her hand in 1988 or even 1991 and said lets get out of here and get married, just you and me. Because Denise wanted kids too.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:47pm]

Well, my sister in law had 2 miscarriages before having 3 healthy kids so that is entirely possible..my co worker just had a another kid last year and she miscarried before, so yeah it haoppens.

.

Mani left him...i am not sure why but she didn't want o be married to him anymiore..she said it was because she wanted a normal life....not show biz which is so funny to me---why marry Prince???? And then Eric Benet???? Craaaaaazy!

.

Well, anyway, i don't know if she miscarried but it was in a few articles i read and with all the women he slept with..and there were A LOT OF THEM its weird none of them had his baby (besides Myte of course) i always wondered how was that possible...look at all these other rock stars, musicians..they have tons of kids, many with different women too, so i dunno......but yes he did want kids, wether or not he suddenly stopped wanting them, maybe after losing his son, because it was so traumatic ..i am not sure but he married Mani awfully fast!!!!!!

.

As far as marrying Denise in late 80's early 90's she was a mess!!! She even said over the years she was a crack addict...not a pretty sight!!!!! I just don't think their timing was ever right for that. He was having sex with 3 or 4 girlfriends at once and she was snorting cocaine...yeah...babies NOT A GREAT IDEA!

.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:59pm]

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

Honestly..i think he wanted kids.

.

And he knew she couldn't have children with him. Even though he may have still loved her and on some level wanted to be with her (she was really into her religion though) whcih could have also been a factor, i think he reeeeeally wanted biological ''genius musician protegee children'' such as himself...this is just my opinion...but i do feel, as much as he may have still felt for her, he couldn't have ''the life'' he wanted with her. When he lost his son..i think it made him more determined to have ''That family life'' that eluded him....and then in walks Manuela, and well....she toook off....

.

Now what is so ironic is he married TWO hottie, 20 somethings, young ones if you will and still couldn't have that family he wanted. He told Oprah he wanted ''kids crawling all over him..'' he had a playroom all set up to fill with his children so thats my belief..ironic it couldn't happen with the two young thangs he married though..guess thats a life lesson in itself?

.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:39pm]

Well I think he went through a phase in his 30s where he wanted kids especially after losing his son we all go through that phase but I think for someone whose career is as big as his was, and who is as driven as he was, he also had a side of himself that wanted to be the center of woman's attention. and with that the freedom to have as many women as he wanted. which is not compatible with a settled family life. He could have had kids with Mani there was nothing stopping that and personally without any proof i do not believe she miscarried, since she's had 2 healthy kids since. and sorry but I don't believe Mayte had a second miscarriage so soon after what she went through either. That's just my opinion though. I think he married for emotional insecurity, first the rebound from Denise getting married and the marriage to Mani when his parents died. Plus if he loved Denise and wanted kids, he could have grabbed her hand in 1988 or even 1991 and said lets get out of here and get married, just you and me. Because Denise wanted kids too. Oh yeah and Troy Beyer rumor is that she had a miscarriage too. Too many coincidences. I think some are made up to make the relationships appear stronger. Typically I believe miscarriages have more to do with the womb/hormone situation in the woman than the sperm.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:47pm]

[Edited 5/18/16 19:49pm]

She told Joan Rivers in the interviews from the 80's that she wanted to settle down, get married, and have lots of babies. She was definitely thinking in that direction. Yes, I agree that the amount of "miscarriages" was exaggerated to make the relationships appear more serious that perhaps they were.

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

Well I think he went through a phase in his 30s where he wanted kids especially after losing his son we all go through that phase but I think for someone whose career is as big as his was, and who is as driven as he was, he also had a side of himself that wanted to be the center of woman's attention. and with that the freedom to have as many women as he wanted. which is not compatible with a settled family life. He could have had kids with Mani there was nothing stopping that and personally without any proof i do not believe she miscarried, since she's had 2 healthy kids since. and sorry but I don't believe Mayte had a second miscarriage so soon after what she went through either. That's just my opinion though. I think he married for emotional insecurity, first the rebound from Denise getting married and the marriage to Mani when his parents died. Plus if he loved Denise and wanted kids, he could have grabbed her hand in 1988 or even 1991 and said lets get out of here and get married, just you and me. Because Denise wanted kids too. Oh yeah and Troy Beyer rumor is that she had a miscarriage too. Too many coincidences. I think some are made up to make the relationships appear stronger. Typically I believe miscarriages have more to do with the womb/hormone situation in the woman than the sperm.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:47pm]

[Edited 5/18/16 19:49pm]

She told Joan Rivers in the interviews from the 80's that she wanted to settle down, get married, and have lots of babies. She was definitely thinking in that direction. Yes, I agree that the amount of "miscarriages" was exaggerated to make the relationships appear more serious that perhaps they were.

Look, i loved Vanity..and even more so Denise and where she took her life..but she was a crack addict. High in almost every interview..she couldn't be a good mom. And like i said in my other post..i added to it..Prince was not faithful nor could he have been a good man for anyone to marry at that time..later may have been diifferent story.

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

Well I think he went through a phase in his 30s where he wanted kids especially after losing his son we all go through that phase but I think for someone whose career is as big as his was, and who is as driven as he was, he also had a side of himself that wanted to be the center of woman's attention. and with that the freedom to have as many women as he wanted. which is not compatible with a settled family life. He could have had kids with Mani there was nothing stopping that and personally without any proof i do not believe she miscarried, since she's had 2 healthy kids since. and sorry but I don't believe Mayte had a second miscarriage so soon after what she went through either. That's just my opinion though. I think he married for emotional insecurity, first the rebound from Denise getting married and the marriage to Mani when his parents died. Plus if he loved Denise and wanted kids, he could have grabbed her hand in 1988 or even 1991 and said lets get out of here and get married, just you and me. Because Denise wanted kids too.

[Edited 5/18/16 19:47pm]

Well, my sister in law had 2 miscarriages before having 3 healthy kids so that is entirely possible..my co worker just had a another kid last year and she miscarried before, so yeah it haoppens.

.

Mani left him...i am not sure why but she didn't want o be married to him anymiore..she said it was because she wanted a normal life....not show biz which is so funny to me---why marry Prince???? And then Eric Benet???? Craaaaaazy!

.

Well, anyway, i don't know if she miscarried but it was in a few articles i read and with all the women he slept with..and there were A LOT OF THEM its weird none of them had his baby (besides Myte of course) i always wondered how was that possible...look at all these other rock stars, musicians..they have tons of kids, many with different women too, so i dunno......but yes he did want kids, wether or not he suddenly stopped wanting them, maybe after losing his son, because it was so traumatic ..i am not sure but he married Mani awfully fast!!!!!!

I wondered about the breakdown of that marriage too. I had a thought and again, it could be completely unrelated, but when Denise died didn't she make some comment that she had spoken to her on few occasions and she was sweet? Something to that effect? Why would she have spoken to her? He was married to her, early 2000's long after Denise gave up Vanity and not in Hollywood circles. Maybe she figured out that Prince's emotional distance was connected to Denise and maybe she figured out that the whole time Prince was on this quest to replace what he lost with her. Maybe Mani was on to him about that and didn't want that. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't want to be with a man, who's heart belonged to someone else. I'd know that he'd never surrender himself to me completely, if he had already given his heart away.

In so many ways they really were "star-crossed lovers", the deep love was there and from all signs never ended, but there were so many factors that interfered with them being together, other people bad timing, wanting different things at different times, one hurts the other and then the other sort of retaliates with a gesture of "look I've moved on."

I think Prince really hurt Denise when he wasn't loyal to her in the early 1980s and messed around with so many others while he was involved with her. Prince himself said he controlled people because he was afraid if he didn't he'd lose them. And his control was one of the things that drove Vanity away.

Then after she leaves, he realizes that he wants her back and pursues her again and again over the next half dozen years. And because she still loves him, they do intermittently hook up, but similar to his song title, she loves him, but she doesn't trust him. She knows that if he she goes back to him he'll continue to mess around with other women. I think she didn't think he'd ever change. I really got that impression when she answered Donny Simpson's question with "Prince doesn't have just one woman."

And some of it was bravado on Prince's part as he has all of these young women around him, his proteges etc and to Vanity it looked like it was more of the same -- that she wasn't special in his heart, just one of many. It was like Prince was always "pining for Vanity" but he never really told her what she needed to hear. Then she ODs and it shakes him and he seeks her out again, but then she changes her priorities and turns to God and basically regrets Prince and his lifestyle. Then she marries someone else and that's when he starts getting serious with Mayte and marries her. But that he overdoses in May (after only being married for 3 months) maybe says something about his frame of mind.

It's too bad that they didn't manage to really reunite in 1989/ 90 before Vanity had started having all the health problems, they might have really managed to have a future together.