If Prince and Vanity were "hooking up" on and in 1987 and during other times, it also complicates things because it would bring up all their residual feelings for each other and can we/should we get back together. It reaffirms that there is still a huge connection to each other and makes it impossible for either of them to move on. It probably also just kept reinforcing the idea for both of them that "eventually they would get back together".

Yeah Nikki Sixx is an idiot - Tommy Lee said that Nikki was engaged to Vanity and that he was crazy about her. So all the extra nonsense he said was just to save face. And I don't believe for a moment that Vanity sent herself flowers from Prince. As Beachy stated, Nikki was just embarrassed because he realized that Vanity was still in love with Prince.

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

Prince had been in LA for around a week in Jan 1987, and shortly after this like within a week is when she got the flowers with a note. She had been seeing Nikki since the year before. My guess is that Vanity and Prince hooked up while he was in LA.

Vanity got engaged to Nikki in April.

Sometime in June or July she visited Nikki in MPLS and stayed to see Prince longer.

Aug - Susannah is around, Nikki breaks up with Vanity

Sept - Prince is in LA for an award, Vanity jumps Nikki same night, then asks if they can watch a movie together and they stay together for a few days.

.

according to my memory.

Vanitys birthday was also in January..so could have been a birthday type meeting or celebration as well

it's close enough.

Vanity spends NYE and NY day with Nikki doing coke

Jan 4 Vanity's Birthday

Jan 10 - 15 Prince records in LA

Jan 21 - the flowers. he says he went over and there were like 24 dozen roses in the corner. He asked her who they were from and she wouldn't say so he read the card. "Drop him. Take me back." Nikki is furious.

April 16 she tells him they are soulmates and asks him to marry her and he says yes

June 26 he is upset because he thinks Vanity leaked their engagement to the press. so he says.

July 14 she flies to MPLS and stays at the hotel rather than going to his show. Prince is at PP.

July 16 Nikki says he left her in MPLS and maybe she can hook up with Dozen roses boy

July 18 - 24 Prince films scenes at PP for SOTT

Aug 9 Nikki says he hasn't spoken to vanity in a couple of weeks

Aug 14 - 23 She comes to visit him in NY. she doesn't hang around him much.

Aug 18 Nikki decides to break up with her

Aug 26 Nikki breaks up with her over the phone she just says ok

Sept 5 Prince plays a hitnrun concert in MNPS and Susannah shows up with P's father

Sep9 Nikki gets home from tour, Vanity had trashed his place

Sept 11 Prince films a short segment for mTV awards in LA then plays an aftershow at a country club. Nikki arrives home and Vanity jumps out at him out of nowhere. They fight and Vanity says, Hit me if you hate me! he knocks her out cold. He throws her out to the guy in the waiting limo.

Sep 15 Vanity comes over and says she is sorry. they agree to be friends and later spend the night together.

kellyna said:

If Prince and Vanity were "hooking up" on and in 1987 and during other times, it also complicates things because it would bring up all their residual feelings for each other and can we/should we get back together. It reaffirms that there is still a huge connection to each other and makes it impossible for either of them to move on. It probably also just kept reinforcing the idea for both of them that "eventually they would get back together".

Yeah Nikki Sixx is an idiot - Tommy Lee said that Nikki was engaged to Vanity and that he was crazy about her. So all the extra nonsense he said was just to save face. And I don't believe for a moment that Vanity sent herself flowers from Prince. As Beachy stated, Nikki was just embarrassed because he realized that Vanity was still in love with Prince.

Yes, I think this is what happened. Again, all big if's because we don't have evidence/ facts and we may never get them. I think they shared something truely special but could not make their lifestyles compatible. Although, I'm not sure I believe Prince's celibacy thing was something that lasted, I do think their lives were moving in the same direction in other realms.

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

Vanitys birthday was also in January..so could have been a birthday type meeting or celebration as well

it's close enough.

Vanity spends NYE and NY day with Nikki doing coke

Jan 4 Vanity's Birthday

Jan 10 - 15 Prince records in LA

Jan 21 - the flowers. he says he went over and there were like 24 dozen roses in the corner. He asked her who they were from and she wouldn't say so he read the card. "Drop him. Take me back." Nikki is furious.

April 16 she tells him they are soulmates and asks him to marry her and he says yes

June 26 he is upset because he thinks Vanity leaked their engagement to the press. so he says.

July 14 she flies to MPLS and stays at the hotel rather than going to his show. Prince is at PP.

July 16 Nikki says he left her in MPLS and maybe she can hook up with Dozen roses boy

July 18 - 24 Prince films scenes at PP for SOTT

Aug 9 Nikki says he hasn't spoken to vanity in a couple of weeks

Aug 14 - 23 She comes to visit him in NY. she doesn't hang around him much.

Aug 18 Nikki decides to break up with her

Aug 26 Nikki breaks up with her over the phone she just says ok

Sept 5 Prince plays a hitnrun concert in MNPS and Susannah shows up with P's father

Sep9 Nikki gets home from tour, Vanity had trashed his place

Sept 11 Prince films a short segment for mTV awards in LA then plays an aftershow at a country club. Nikki arrives home and Vanity jumps out at him out of nowhere. They fight and Vanity says, Hit me if you hate me! he knocks her out cold. He throws her out to the guy in the waiting limo.

Sep 15 Vanity comes over and says she is sorry. they agree to be friends and later spend the night together.

that is amaaaaazing!

purplegirl00 said:

GeniusLuv said:

Vanitys birthday was also in January..so could have been a birthday type meeting or celebration as well

True! I think there was a lot of going back and forth for awhile, and each time, both left in disappointment. Perhaps she thought, he's changed and then realized he was still hitting with several women at one time. Then maybe he thought, finally, she'll come back to me, but then she didn't.

Was "I love you but I don't trust you anymore" said to have been about Vanity? I heard this somewhere. I was just looking at the lyrics and in there he says, "I remember meeting U here in the good ol' days, I would never pick the flower of my favourite protege, Maybe if I would have
Then U would not treat me this way, U tricked me - but U will not anymore"

What does the bold mean?

Prince sang this song at his very last concert and after 'good old days' he shouts, "the 80s?".

Most people think he wrote it for Mayte because it was recorded in 1998 but the words fit Vanity IMO then he gives this 80s reference. Usually picking someone's flower is taking their virginity though so things don't add up. Maybe he was mixing up elements to get a good song.?

at the last concert he sings it between Indifference and LRC

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

True! I think there was a lot of going back and forth for awhile, and each time, both left in disappointment. Perhaps she thought, he's changed and then realized he was still hitting with several women at one time. Then maybe he thought, finally, she'll come back to me, but then she didn't.

Was "I love you but I don't trust you anymore" said to have been about Vanity? I heard this somewhere. I was just looking at the lyrics and in there he says, "I remember meeting U here in the good ol' days, I would never pick the flower of my favourite protege, Maybe if I would have
Then U would not treat me this way, U tricked me - but U will not anymore"

What does the bold mean?

Prince sang this song at his very last concert and after 'good old days' he shouts, "the 80s?".

Most people think he wrote it for Mayte because it was recorded in 1998 but the words fit Vanity IMO then he gives this 80s reference. Usually picking someone's flower is taking their virginity though so things don't add up. Maybe he was mixing up elements to get a good song.?

at the last concert he sings it between Indifference and LRC

Yeah, that doesn't make sense because I'm pretty sure Prince was not Vanity's first, but he was Mayte's. Maybe it was a mashup.

“If you love a flower, don’t pick it up. Because if you pick it up it dies and it ceases to be what you love. So if you love a flower, let it be. Love is not about possession. Love is about appreciation.”

.

By Osho....http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/687929-if-you-love-a-flower-don-t-pick-it-up-because

[Edited 5/16/16 11:50am]

I think ''picking a flower'' is not a sexual reference bcuz there are so many other ways he could say that...popping, busting, etc. First thing i thought of was when you pick a flower...it dies...so i think maybe it was about Vanity and a part of her dying...or him not wanting to do that to her.

.

So, am i going to deep here??

GeniusLuv said:

I think ''picking a flower'' is not a sexual reference bcuz there are so many other ways he could say that...popping, busting, etc. First thing i thought of was when you pick a flower...it dies...so i think maybe it was about Vanity and a part of her dying...or him not wanting to do that to her.

.

So, am i going to deep here??

No keep going, you may be on to something! I was just trying to tie the song with what maybe was going on at the time. If it's about Vanity, I wonder why waited until 1998 to record it?

purplegirl00 said:

GeniusLuv said:

I think ''picking a flower'' is not a sexual reference bcuz there are so many other ways he could say that...popping, busting, etc. First thing i thought of was when you pick a flower...it dies...so i think maybe it was about Vanity and a part of her dying...or him not wanting to do that to her.

.

So, am i going to deep here??

No keep going, you may be on to something! I was just trying to tie the song with what maybe was going on at the time. If it's about Vanity, I wonder why waited until 1998 to record it?

Here's my take on it. It refers to hitting her. In the movie PR the kid finds himself almost hitting Vanity but restrains himself. Both Nikki and her husband did not restrain themselves. Prince thinks she respects them for manhandling her. Vanity had a habit of being extremely provocative. Nikki's book talks about it and even the obituary mentioned it. I know it is not the usual way to describe it but he was writing a love ballad and had to come up with something and in a roundabout way it fits because you physically kill a flower when you pick it, you do violence to it.

[Edited 5/16/16 12:16pm]

purplegirl00 said:

GeniusLuv said:

I think ''picking a flower'' is not a sexual reference bcuz there are so many other ways he could say that...popping, busting, etc. First thing i thought of was when you pick a flower...it dies...so i think maybe it was about Vanity and a part of her dying...or him not wanting to do that to her.

.

So, am i going to deep here??

No keep going, you may be on to something! I was just trying to tie the song with what maybe was going on at the time. If it's about Vanity, I wonder why waited until 1998 to record it?

I am sure they had contact over mannnny years, so he could still have been writing about her....

.

There are songs that were written at different times, for different people, etc. for instance, i have read more than once that Glamorous Life was going to be recorded by Vanity (just like Sex Shooter was by V6...b4 A6) but she left Prince, so it went to Sheila E. There were also other songs Take Me With U was a duet with/for Vanity......ohhh and Manic Monday wasn't going to the Bangles originally, Apollonia 6 recorded it first, maybe could have been a Vanity 6 single originally???

.

YOU CAN GO LOOK IT ALL UP ON WIKI...

He wrote a lot of songs earlier than when they were actually released.

.

There are many more i'm sure.

.

[Edited 5/16/16 12:23pm]

GeniusLuv said:

purplegirl00 said:

No keep going, you may be on to something! I was just trying to tie the song with what maybe was going on at the time. If it's about Vanity, I wonder why waited until 1998 to record it?

I am sure they had contact over mannnny years, so he could still have been writing about her....

.

There are songs that were written at different times, for different people, etc. for instance, i have read more than once that Glamorous Life was going to be recorded by Vanity (just like Sex Shooter was by V6...b4 A6) but she left Prince, so it went to Sheila E. There were also other songs Take Me With U was a duet with/for Vanity......ohhh and Manic Monday wasn't going to the Bangles originally, Apollonia 6 recorded it first, maybe could have been a Vanity 6 single originally???

.

He wrote a lot of songs earlier than when they were actually released...

.

There are many more i'm sure.

agree. he could have written it in 1997 after having the meeting that went bad and after seeing her at his concert, and looking back at her engagement to Nikki and her marriage. I wonder, if its about her, how she tricked him. Her surprise marriage? after he had put out the song Orgasm and said 'I love you' at the end of the song? Just guessing.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

No keep going, you may be on to something! I was just trying to tie the song with what maybe was going on at the time. If it's about Vanity, I wonder why waited until 1998 to record it?

Here's my take on it. It refers to hitting her. In the movie PR the kid finds himself almost hitting Vanity but restrains himself. Both Nikki and her husband did not restrain themselves. Prince thinks she respects them for manhandling her. Vanity had a habit of being extremely provocative. Nikki's book talks about it and even the obituary mentioned it. I know it is not the usual way to describe it but he was writing a love ballad and had to come up with something and in a roundabout way it fits because you physically kill a flower when you pick it, you do violence to it.

[Edited 5/16/16 12:16pm]

Wow! So if I am understanding this correctly, Prince is saying that if he'd been physically violent with her, maybe she wouldn't have treated him that way?

If you look up these songs on wikipedia, you get some good info..like Glamorous Life being for Vanity originally....

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

Here's my take on it. It refers to hitting her. In the movie PR the kid finds himself almost hitting Vanity but restrains himself. Both Nikki and her husband did not restrain themselves. Prince thinks she respects them for manhandling her. Vanity had a habit of being extremely provocative. Nikki's book talks about it and even the obituary mentioned it. I know it is not the usual way to describe it but he was writing a love ballad and had to come up with something and in a roundabout way it fits because you physically kill a flower when you pick it, you do violence to it.

[Edited 5/16/16 12:16pm]

Wow! So if I am understanding this correctly, Prince is saying that if he'd been physically violent with her, maybe she wouldn't have treated him that way?

I think he's saying he never would ''pick the flower, of his favorite...'' in PR they showed some pushing around, but i don't think it was abuse....just some drama, it wasa movie..so who knows?

But really, she was bigger than him..she coulda whipped the boys assss lets be honest

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

I am sure they had contact over mannnny years, so he could still have been writing about her....

.

There are songs that were written at different times, for different people, etc. for instance, i have read more than once that Glamorous Life was going to be recorded by Vanity (just like Sex Shooter was by V6...b4 A6) but she left Prince, so it went to Sheila E. There were also other songs Take Me With U was a duet with/for Vanity......ohhh and Manic Monday wasn't going to the Bangles originally, Apollonia 6 recorded it first, maybe could have been a Vanity 6 single originally???

.

He wrote a lot of songs earlier than when they were actually released...

.

There are many more i'm sure.

agree. he could have written it in 1997 after having the meeting that went bad and after seeing her at his concert, and looking back at her engagement to Nikki and her marriage. I wonder, if its about her, how she tricked him. Her surprise marriage? after he had put out the song Orgasm and said 'I love you' at the end of the song? Just guessing.

ok, it's making more sense. Looks like a lot of songs were written much earlier than they were released. Another song I was looking at lyrics was Strange But True, in the first few lines, we get a confession of sorts, at least I think.

GeniusLuv said:

purplegirl00 said:

Wow! So if I am understanding this correctly, Prince is saying that if he'd been physically violent with her, maybe she wouldn't have treated him that way?

I think he's saying he never would ''pick the flower, of his favorite...'' in PR they showed some pushing around, but i don't think it was abuse....just some drama, it wasa movie..so who knows?

But really, she was bigger than him..she coulda whipped the boys assss lets be honest

there are 2 scenes I am thinking of. that night on the motorcycle after he picks her up from Morris Day, they stop at the underpass, he tries to rape her, she resists, they are on the ground and he pulls his fist back to punch her in the face and she says, go on!

.

the second time is in his bedroom after she gives him the guitar, he gives her his earring, then she says she is going to join Morris/ band and he slaps her hard, she falls on the dresser, he tries to apologize, she runs away.

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

Here's my take on it. It refers to hitting her. In the movie PR the kid finds himself almost hitting Vanity but restrains himself. Both Nikki and her husband did not restrain themselves. Prince thinks she respects them for manhandling her. Vanity had a habit of being extremely provocative. Nikki's book talks about it and even the obituary mentioned it. I know it is not the usual way to describe it but he was writing a love ballad and had to come up with something and in a roundabout way it fits because you physically kill a flower when you pick it, you do violence to it.

[Edited 5/16/16 12:16pm]

Wow! So if I am understanding this correctly, Prince is saying that if he'd been physically violent with her, maybe she wouldn't have treated him that way?

yeah he's trying to figure out how he could have gained her respect and thinks he's been too nice to her.

let's not forget that although he was short, he was very very strong, he lifted weights and was a very athletic dancer

GeniusLuv said:

purplegirl00 said:

Wow! So if I am understanding this correctly, Prince is saying that if he'd been physically violent with her, maybe she wouldn't have treated him that way?

I think he's saying he never would ''pick the flower, of his favorite...'' in PR they showed some pushing around, but i don't think it was abuse....just some drama, it wasa movie..so who knows?

But really, she was bigger than him..she coulda whipped the boys assss lets be honest

AGREED! I loved the pool story he told in the Melbourne tribute. I could've totally seen Chick tossing her in the pool.

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

I think he's saying he never would ''pick the flower, of his favorite...'' in PR they showed some pushing around, but i don't think it was abuse....just some drama, it wasa movie..so who knows?

But really, she was bigger than him..she coulda whipped the boys assss lets be honest

there are 2 scenes I am thinking of. that night on the motorcycle after he picks her up from Morris Day, they stop at the underpass, he tries to rape her, she resists, they are on the ground and he pulls his fist back to punch her in the face and she says, go on!

.

the second time is in his bedroom after she gives him the guitar, he gives her his earring, then she says she is going to join Morris/ band and he slaps her hard, she falls on the dresser, he tries to apologize, she runs away.

I don't know how much of that is taken from real life..it was a movie..but who knows? I think the Morris Day character was Rick James trying to start up an all girl group, i know thats tuff was real..but the drama, could have been embellished a bit, again who knows?

I just think the pick a flower reference isn't about sex..its about killing something..or something dying, if your not careful....this is just my guess though.

Prince was extremely strong. He definitely could have knocked her out. Throwing her in the pool is a different story though lol she had the height on him

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

I think he's saying he never would ''pick the flower, of his favorite...'' in PR they showed some pushing around, but i don't think it was abuse....just some drama, it wasa movie..so who knows?

But really, she was bigger than him..she coulda whipped the boys assss lets be honest

there are 2 scenes I am thinking of. that night on the motorcycle after he picks her up from Morris Day, they stop at the underpass, he tries to rape her, she resists, they are on the ground and he pulls his fist back to punch her in the face and she says, go on!

.

the second time is in his bedroom after she gives him the guitar, he gives her his earring, then she says she is going to join Morris/ band and he slaps her hard, she falls on the dresser, he tries to apologize, she runs away.

When I first watched PR as an adult (I had seen first in the theater as child), in both those scenes my heart skipped a beat. That slap was heard around the world.

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

there are 2 scenes I am thinking of. that night on the motorcycle after he picks her up from Morris Day, they stop at the underpass, he tries to rape her, she resists, they are on the ground and he pulls his fist back to punch her in the face and she says, go on!

.

the second time is in his bedroom after she gives him the guitar, he gives her his earring, then she says she is going to join Morris/ band and he slaps her hard, she falls on the dresser, he tries to apologize, she runs away.

I don't know how much of that is taken from real life..it was a movie..but who knows? I think the Morris Day character was Rick James trying to start up an all girl group, i know thats tuff was real..but the drama, could have been embellished a bit, again who knows?

I just think the pick a flower reference isn't about sex..its about killing something..or something dying, if your not careful....this is just my guess though.

a couple of people have said a great deal was based on real events that were then embellished and rearranged to make the story good. Like the pool story which became the lake minnetonka scene. Prince and Vanity outlined the story together then Albeert Magnoli rewrote it to make it a good story.

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

there are 2 scenes I am thinking of. that night on the motorcycle after he picks her up from Morris Day, they stop at the underpass, he tries to rape her, she resists, they are on the ground and he pulls his fist back to punch her in the face and she says, go on!

.

the second time is in his bedroom after she gives him the guitar, he gives her his earring, then she says she is going to join Morris/ band and he slaps her hard, she falls on the dresser, he tries to apologize, she runs away.

When I first watched PR as an adult (I had seen first in the theater as child), in both those scenes my heart skipped a beat. That slap was heard around the world.

there are alot of similarities between how she dares the kid to hit her in the movie, and how she dared Nikki to hit her in real life. that is why I think its based on a real event.

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

I don't know how much of that is taken from real life..it was a movie..but who knows? I think the Morris Day character was Rick James trying to start up an all girl group, i know thats tuff was real..but the drama, could have been embellished a bit, again who knows?

I just think the pick a flower reference isn't about sex..its about killing something..or something dying, if your not careful....this is just my guess though.

a couple of people have said a great deal was based on real events that were then embellished and rearranged to make the story good. Like the pool story which became the lake minnetonka scene. Prince and Vanity outlined the story together then Albeert Magnoli rewrote it to make it a good story.

It was well done for that time. I wish Vanity had hung it out through the filming of the movie.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

When I first watched PR as an adult (I had seen first in the theater as child), in both those scenes my heart skipped a beat. That slap was heard around the world.

there are alot of similarities between how she dares the kid to hit her in the movie, and how she dared Nikki to hit her in real life. that is why I think its based on a real event.

Based on what you've said about Nikki's book, it does seem likely true that she provoked fights or aggitated them once they got started.

purplegirl00 said:

beachy said:

a couple of people have said a great deal was based on real events that were then embellished and rearranged to make the story good. Like the pool story which became the lake minnetonka scene. Prince and Vanity outlined the story together then Albeert Magnoli rewrote it to make it a good story.

It was well done for that time. I wish Vanity had hung it out through the filming of the movie.

I know. I am not sure things would have turned out better for her though, in terms of an acting and singing career. At least she had the guts to try her luck on her own. Apples did not really get any great acting roles after this gig in PR did she? But I would have liked to see the real Vanity playing the role, the movie would have been even more epic than it is.

I can see several good interpretations, including Genius', to make out of the flower reference, because all good poetry is ambiguous and has different levels of meaning. I could see it meaning not wanting to stand in the way of her career by marrying her and keeping her in MPLS, too. That would make sense of the protege remark. Develop someone's talent then put a lid on it. That is what Morris and Vanity were accusing Prince of doing at the time, of putting limitations on them.

beachy said:

purplegirl00 said:

It was well done for that time. I wish Vanity had hung it out through the filming of the movie.

I know. I am not sure things would have turned out better for her though, in terms of an acting and singing career. At least she had the guts to try her luck on her own. Apples did not really get any great acting roles after this gig in PR did she? But I would have liked to see the real Vanity playing the role, the movie would have been even more epic than it is.

I don't remember seeing Apples in another movie after PR. Wasn't she on Falcon's Crest or was that Vanity?

If Vanity had been in PR, it would've been even more sensual & sexual and most likely rated X. While Prince and Apples had a couple of hot steamy scenes, with Vanity, there would've been more and more real since she was Prince's real girl.

[Edited 5/16/16 13:26pm]