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Reply #30 posted 03/07/15 5:33pm

PaisleyRose

SoulAlive said:

It's worth noting that Jill Jones was not some random chick that Prince was dating and decided to make a star lol She was a backup singer for Teena Marie and we all know that Teena wouldn't have been onstage with someone who couldn't sing,lol


She and Teena Marie were related, that's how she got the gig.
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Reply #31 posted 03/07/15 5:38pm

PaisleyRose

JoshuaWho said:

Get my Jill Jones CD out today and it struck me the same way it did when I bought the album back in the 80s: she really cant sing worth a damn. She was one of many hot chicks with marginal talent that Prince propped up with great music and production. Believe it or not, Vanity's voice is far more enjoyable to me. In fact, her Motown albums have some half way decent vocal moments. I always thought she got criticized for her sainging a little bit too much. Jill Jones, on the other hand, is a mystery to me. She doesnt even strike me as a good backup singer even though she obviously did it with Prince and others like Teena Marie.



"Soon after Jill Jones' mother started managing Teena Marie, one of Jones' cousins, Teena moved into their house. She and Jill would sometimes write songs together, and thus Teena Marie influenced Jill's own willingness to pursue in the musical direction. Jill practiced on the piano, and writing her own material, up to the point when Teena Marie asked her to sing backing vocals for her. Shortly after, at age 15, she decided to leave school and start a professional career as backing singer." - taken from Prince Vault
PaisleyRose was here rose
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Reply #32 posted 03/09/15 4:05am

Jamzone333

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SoulAlive said:

JoshuaWho said:

Get my Jill Jones CD out today and it struck me the same way it did when I bought the album back in the 80s: she really cant sing worth a damn. She was one of many hot chicks with marginal talent that Prince propped up with great music and production. Believe it or not, Vanity's voice is far more enjoyable to me. In fact, her Motown albums have some half way decent vocal moments. I always thought she got criticized for her sainging a little bit too much. Jill Jones, on the other hand, is a mystery to me. She doesnt even strike me as a good backup singer even though she obviously did it with Prince and others like Teena Marie.

falloff Jill Jones is one of the few Prince proteges who could actually sing.Her problem is that her career was mishandled by Prince,but she has talent.

I love Vanity,but she has never been able to sing biggrin On her Wild Animal album,all we hear from her is squealing and screeching....but you cannot call it singing.Let's be honest....she and Apollonia became stars strictly because of their looks,not their vocal talent.

Yep, and Mayte definitely couldn't sing...

"A united state of mind will never be divided
The real definition of unity is 1
People can slam their door, disagree and fight it
But how U gonna love the Father but not love the Son?
United States of Division"
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Reply #33 posted 03/09/15 4:10am

Jamzone333

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FragileUndertow said:

JoshuaWho said:

Get my Jill Jones CD out today... she really cant sing worth a damn.
She was one of many hot chicks with marginal talent..

Believe it or not, Vanity's voice is far more enjoyable to me



Vanity? lol Well you are entitled to your own opinion
To me jill jones album in one of the best PP releases

Still one of my favorites..(Mia Boca). Jilly Jill can sing. Prince is my boy, however, he has always prized looks/attraction (Vanity, Appolonia, Mayte) over substance (Jill, Rosie, Shelby J).

"A united state of mind will never be divided
The real definition of unity is 1
People can slam their door, disagree and fight it
But how U gonna love the Father but not love the Son?
United States of Division"
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Reply #34 posted 03/09/15 6:48pm

purplethunder3
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"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #35 posted 03/09/15 8:19pm

SoulAlive

PaisleyRose said:

SoulAlive said:

It's worth noting that Jill Jones was not some random chick that Prince was dating and decided to make a star lol She was a backup singer for Teena Marie and we all know that Teena wouldn't have been onstage with someone who couldn't sing,lol

She and Teena Marie were related, that's how she got the gig.

related how? Cousins?

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Reply #36 posted 03/09/15 8:22pm

SoulAlive

PaisleyRose said:

JoshuaWho said:

Get my Jill Jones CD out today and it struck me the same way it did when I bought the album back in the 80s: she really cant sing worth a damn. She was one of many hot chicks with marginal talent that Prince propped up with great music and production. Believe it or not, Vanity's voice is far more enjoyable to me. In fact, her Motown albums have some half way decent vocal moments. I always thought she got criticized for her sainging a little bit too much. Jill Jones, on the other hand, is a mystery to me. She doesnt even strike me as a good backup singer even though she obviously did it with Prince and others like Teena Marie.

"Soon after Jill Jones' mother started managing Teena Marie, one of Jones' cousins, Teena moved into their house. She and Jill would sometimes write songs together, and thus Teena Marie influenced Jill's own willingness to pursue in the musical direction. Jill practiced on the piano, and writing her own material, up to the point when Teena Marie asked her to sing backing vocals for her. Shortly after, at age 15, she decided to leave school and start a professional career as backing singer." - taken from Prince Vault

I think Jill might have done better if she had worked with Teena.Imagine a debut Jill Jones album on Motown,produced by Rick and Teena,and released in 1983.When she joined the Prince camp,she basically got lost in the shuffle.

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Reply #37 posted 03/10/15 7:06am

OldFriends4Sal
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DISCOGRAPHY

1980 Lady T - Teena Marie(Gordy/Motown.)

Backing vocals Produced by Richard Rudolph

Co-produced by Teena Marie

1980 Irons in the Fire Teena Marie (Gordy/Motown.)

Backing vocals

Produced by Teena Marie

1981 It Must Be Magic - Teena Marie (Gordy/Motown)

Backing vocals

Co-wrote The Ballad of Cradle Rob and Me

Produced by Teena Marie

1982 1999 Prince (Warner Bros.)

Featured vocals on 1999 & Lady Cab Driver

Backing vocals Free Automatic

Produced by Prince

1984 Purple Rain Prince & The Revolution (Warner Bros.)

Backing Vocals

Produced by Prince & The Revolution

1984 Apollonia 6 Apollonia 6 (Warner Bros.)

backing vocals

Produced by Apollonia 6 & The Star Company

1984 The Glamorous Life Shella E (Warner Bros.)

Backing vocals on The Belle of St. Mark

1984 Purple Rain

Backing vocals on Take Me With U


1984 Starchild Teena Marie (Gordy/Motown)

Backing vocals

1985 Manic Monday The Bangles (Columbia)

Featured backing vocals (Uncredited)

Produced by David Kahne

1985 Hello (B- Side) Prince (Paisley Park / Warner Bros.,)

Backing vocals

Prince & the Revolution

Kiss the long version vocals and the talking part at the end:

1986 Mazarati Mazarati (Paisley Park/ Warner Bros.)

Backing vocals on Strawberry Lover & I Guess its All Over

1987 JILL JONES - Jill Jones (Paisley Park/Warner Bros.)

Produced by Jill Jones & David Z. (* Co-produced by Prince)(.. Video available)

Mia Bocca* .. b/w 77 Bleeker St

Extended & Dub version Mia Bocca Remixed by Arthur Baker G-Spot b/w Baby

Cries (Ay- Yah) For Love * b/w Baby Youre a Trip

1987 Its Gonna Be A Beautiful Night Prince (Paisley Park/ Warner Bros.)

Co- lead vocals

Produced by Prince

1988 Bright Lights, Big City (Warner Bros.)

Backing Vocals (Uncredited) for Good Love by Prince

Good Love Song included on independently released Crystal Ball by Prince

1988 Kristen Vigard: Kristen Vigard

Backing vocals

1989 The Ground You Walk On Jill Jones (Warner Bros.)

For the Earth Girls Are Easy Soundtrack

Produced by Nile Rodgers

1989 You Do Me Ryuichi Sakamoto (Virgin)

Lead Vocals [video clip available]

1990 Pandemonium The Time (Paisley Park/Warner Bros.)

Backing Vocals

1990 UNRELEASED DEMOS W/ ANGIE STONE (Paisley Park/; Warner Bros.)

1990 Cest Si Bon (From Yves St. Laurent television spot)

Produced by Trevor Horn

91-95 UNREALEASED DEMOS W/ TIM SIMENON & JOHN REYNOLDS

1993 Mystic Man Paolo Rusticelli (Island)

Lead vocals on Rock Man & In Deep

1993 Bald Paolo Rusticelli (Island)

Featured vocalist w/ Miles Davis, Carlos Santana

Produced by Paolo Rusticelli

1994 The Great Pretender Lisa Lisa (EMI)

Written & produced by Jill Jones & Giovanni Salah

1995 BABY MOTHER - Baby Mother (London Records) unreleased

Lead Vocalist

Produced by David Steele, Andy Cox, Carmen Rizzo, Jamie Mahobaritz

1995 THELISTENING POOL - Oil for The Lamps Of China (Telegraph/ Island)

Backing vocals

97-98 WRITING/PRODUCING SOLO PROJECTS W/ CHRIS BRUCE

1999 CHIC - Live At The Budokan (Sumthing)

Background vocals

2000 - JILL JONES & CHRIS BRUCE - Two (DAV Music)

TODD TERRY featuring JILL JONES - "Call Me" (BMG Germany)

RONNY JORDAN featuring JILL JONES - "Why" (Blue Note)

2004 - THE GRAND ROYALS - Wasted (Peace Bisquit)

2007 JILL JONES vs. FUNKY JUNCTION - 'Someone To Jump Up' [european release] (Stoney Boy)

2009 JILL JONES - 'Living For the Weekend' (Peace Bisquit)

2009 JILL JONES - album (Peace Bisquit)

Backing Vocals on all 4 Time albums

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

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Reply #38 posted 03/12/15 3:28pm

JoshuaWho

terrig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Sheila E became Prince's protege

just because someone played in bands and toured with people doesn't mean they aren't a protege


Shelia in my mind was never a true protege because she was a musician before prince and she's still a musician NOW. That makes my case she shouldnt be classified as a protege...because he didnt actually make her.


She has a storied and successful career. She would have been where she is now without Prince. I think its easy to see that w Sheila.

Cant say that for any of the others.

GLamorous Life, Romance 1600, and the Purple Rain tour made SHeila Escovedo into SHeila E - and that is Prince. SHe would have been a respected musician without Prince for sure but she would not have been the star she became without him.

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Reply #39 posted 03/12/15 5:26pm

terrig

JoshuaWho said:

terrig said:


Shelia in my mind was never a true protege because she was a musician before prince and she's still a musician NOW. That makes my case she shouldnt be classified as a protege...because he didnt actually make her.


She has a storied and successful career. She would have been where she is now without Prince. I think its easy to see that w Sheila.

Cant say that for any of the others.

GLamorous Life, Romance 1600, and the Purple Rain tour made SHeila Escovedo into SHeila E - and that is Prince. SHe would have been a respected musician without Prince for sure but she would not have been the star she became without him.



I disagree JoshuaWho...she was on her way...and at the time there were VERY FEW to possibly NO female drummers at the time...fwiw...she didnt fade into nothing afterwards...she kept on keepin on, because thats who girl was to begin with.

The fact is Prince did happen - so yeah of course, he raised her profile ...but did he 'make' her? No. She never came off as not having her own identity or personality. He changed her clothes. Every record on her albums has a Sheila sound and signature that makes her stand out as HER.

She couldn't have become a star if she didnt already HAVE IT. As evidenced by the protege pile left in the wake of lost opportunity of being unable to climb up after the boost they got from Prince. Sheila is the only one who really really made it solo.

its unfair to call her a protege is all I'm saying. She's not making erotic city sounding records now because she doesnt have to. Sheila was a valid band member and not a waste of Princes time and resources.

No one calles Jesse or Andre proteges...why is Sheila a protege?

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Reply #40 posted 03/12/15 5:39pm

woogiebear

If Jill Jones' project were released in 84/85 instead of 87, it'd b a WHOLE 'NUTHA STORY!!!!!

cool cool cool

Love the project!!!! I have the ORIGINAL CD & 2 Albums!!!

cool

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Reply #41 posted 03/12/15 5:44pm

purplethunder3
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woogiebear said:

If Jill Jones' project were released in 84/85 instead of 87, it'd b a WHOLE 'NUTHA STORY!!!!!

cool cool cool

Love the project!!!! I have the ORIGINAL CD & 2 Albums!!!

cool

eek Me want.

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #42 posted 03/13/15 7:25am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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terrig said:

JoshuaWho said:

GLamorous Life, Romance 1600, and the Purple Rain tour made SHeila Escovedo into SHeila E - and that is Prince. SHe would have been a respected musician without Prince for sure but she would not have been the star she became without him.



I disagree JoshuaWho...she was on her way...and at the time there were VERY FEW to possibly NO female drummers at the time...fwiw...she didnt fade into nothing afterwards...she kept on keepin on, because thats who girl was to begin with.

The fact is Prince did happen - so yeah of course, he raised her profile ...but did he 'make' her? No. She never came off as not having her own identity or personality. He changed her clothes. Every record on her albums has a Sheila sound and signature that makes her stand out as HER.

She couldn't have become a star if she didnt already HAVE IT. As evidenced by the protege pile left in the wake of lost opportunity of being unable to climb up after the boost they got from Prince. Sheila is the only one who really really made it solo.

its unfair to call her a protege is all I'm saying. She's not making erotic city sounding records now because she doesnt have to. Sheila was a valid band member and not a waste of Princes time and resources.

No one calles Jesse or Andre proteges...why is Sheila a protege?

I never refer to Prince's actual band members as proteges

And Jesse was a Prince protege, as was Sheila E. once they leave the camp they are no longer proteges, none of them

But what happened in 1983-1989 via Sheila E you can't say hasn't defined or influenced the rest of her career.
Sadly once they try to hard to remove themselves from that they seem mediocre,
I love Sheila E's career, but that last album could have used so more Glamorous Life Romance 1600 Sheila E, it was too mainstream sounding

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

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I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
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Reply #43 posted 03/13/15 7:32am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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JoshuaWho said:

terrig said:


Shelia in my mind was never a true protege because she was a musician before prince and she's still a musician NOW. That makes my case she shouldnt be classified as a protege...because he didnt actually make her.


She has a storied and successful career. She would have been where she is now without Prince. I think its easy to see that w Sheila.

Cant say that for any of the others.

GLamorous Life, Romance 1600, and the Purple Rain tour made SHeila Escovedo into SHeila E - and that is Prince. SHe would have been a respected musician without Prince for sure but she would not have been the star she became without him.

Right, there is nothing wrong with someone's light shining on them to get them to a different level

Prince put Sheila out front when she didn't want to. And true to form in 1987-1989 she went back to being a associate musician. Prince wanted her to lead songs on the tours sometimes and she wouldn't do it, she would say she's the drummer.

She's a great musician, but there is no way she would be where she is if not for 1983-1988

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #44 posted 03/13/15 9:49pm

SoulAlive

woogiebear said:

If Jill Jones' project were released in 84/85 instead of 87, it'd b a WHOLE 'NUTHA STORY!!!!!

cool cool cool

That's exactly what I keep saying.Her debut album should have came out sometime in 1984 or early 1985,with a song like "Sugar Walls" as the debut single.She should have been able to take advantage of the Purple Rain hype.And Kcool,don't tell me that Prince was "too busy" back then and didn't have the time.He put together Sheila E.'s The Glamorous Life album in one week! Songs like "G-Spot" and "All Day,All Night" would have sounded fresh and bold in 1984.By 1987,when her album was finally released,those tunes were dated and were met with indifference by the general public.Jill deserved better than that.

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Reply #45 posted 03/13/15 9:51pm

terrig

OldFriends4Sale said:

JoshuaWho said:

GLamorous Life, Romance 1600, and the Purple Rain tour made SHeila Escovedo into SHeila E - and that is Prince. SHe would have been a respected musician without Prince for sure but she would not have been the star she became without him.

Right, there is nothing wrong with someone's light shining on them to get them to a different level

Prince put Sheila out front when she didn't want to. And true to form in 1987-1989 she went back to being a associate musician. Prince wanted her to lead songs on the tours sometimes and she wouldn't do it, she would say she's the drummer.

She's a great musician, but there is no way she would be where she is if not for 1983-1988


Fair points. And true...I just feel its not fair to lump her in with the list of chicks who can't do more than they can do.

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Reply #46 posted 03/13/15 10:04pm

SoulAlive

If Prince had never taken Sheila under his wing,I still think she would have became a star anyway.She had so many other "connections" and high-profile gigs,she undoubtedly would have attempted a solo career....or a big record exec would have convinced her to do her own thing.

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Reply #47 posted 03/14/15 5:15pm

lezama

avatar

terrig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Sheila E became Prince's protege

just because someone played in bands and toured with people doesn't mean they aren't a protege


Shelia in my mind was never a true protege because she was a musician before prince and she's still a musician NOW. That makes my case she shouldnt be classified as a protege...because he didnt actually make her.


She has a storied and successful career. She would have been where she is now without Prince. I think its easy to see that w Sheila.

Cant say that for any of the others.

False, she would NOT be a name the average person in the US would be familiar with without her association with Prince. she was not on a star track until Prince saw that in her and put her as the lead of a project and had her sing. There are and have been plenty of female percussionists around, the average person, unless they follow the projects theyve been a part of, has probably never heard of any of them.

Change it one more time..
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Reply #48 posted 03/15/15 2:13pm

SoulAlive

lezama said:

terrig said:


Shelia in my mind was never a true protege because she was a musician before prince and she's still a musician NOW. That makes my case she shouldnt be classified as a protege...because he didnt actually make her.


She has a storied and successful career. She would have been where she is now without Prince. I think its easy to see that w Sheila.

Cant say that for any of the others.

False, she would NOT be a name the average person in the US would be familiar with without her association with Prince. she was not on a star track until Prince saw that in her and put her as the lead of a project and had her sing. There are and have been plenty of female percussionists around, the average person, unless they follow the projects theyve been a part of, has probably never heard of any of them.

If Prince had never taken Sheila under his wing,I bet she still would have eventually did a solo album and became a star.She had alot of high-profile connections.Remember,when Prince "discovered" her,she was playing drums for Lionel Richie....an artist who was as "hot" as Prince was back then.

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Reply #49 posted 03/15/15 6:01pm

terrig

SoulAlive said:

lezama said:

False, she would NOT be a name the average person in the US would be familiar with without her association with Prince. she was not on a star track until Prince saw that in her and put her as the lead of a project and had her sing. There are and have been plenty of female percussionists around, the average person, unless they follow the projects theyve been a part of, has probably never heard of any of them.

If Prince had never taken Sheila under his wing,I bet she still would have eventually did a solo album and became a star.She had alot of high-profile connections.Remember,when Prince "discovered" her,she was playing drums for Lionel Richie....an artist who was as "hot" as Prince was back then.



Yes, and she was smokin hot, someone would have put her upfront - it would have been stupid not to.

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Reply #50 posted 03/16/15 10:43am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

Jamzone333 said:

FragileUndertow said:



Vanity? lol Well you are entitled to your own opinion
To me jill jones album in one of the best PP releases

Still one of my favorites..(Mia Boca). Jilly Jill can sing. Prince is my boy, however, he has always prized looks/attraction (Vanity, Appolonia, Mayte) over substance (Jill, Rosie, Shelby J).

Well Vanity had IT, and IT worked on Vanity 6

Apollonia was just a last min actress

And Mayte is a trained dancer, she was his backup dancer so I don't see what was wrong with that

.

Rosie was in his band, how did he prize her 'less'? Rosie left on her own because she didn't like being in the band. and how did he prize Shelby J less. She was his back up band from 2006- she released her own album

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #51 posted 03/16/15 10:46am

lezama

avatar

SoulAlive said:

lezama said:

False, she would NOT be a name the average person in the US would be familiar with without her association with Prince. she was not on a star track until Prince saw that in her and put her as the lead of a project and had her sing. There are and have been plenty of female percussionists around, the average person, unless they follow the projects theyve been a part of, has probably never heard of any of them.

If Prince had never taken Sheila under his wing,I bet she still would have eventually did a solo album and became a star.She had alot of high-profile connections.Remember,when Prince "discovered" her,she was playing drums for Lionel Richie....an artist who was as "hot" as Prince was back then.

You're not going to be a "star" as a drummer. Its sad but its a fact. Im not denying that she would have a great career, but as a drummer. Prince the one that gave her the confidence to step from behind the drums.

Change it one more time..
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Reply #52 posted 03/16/15 10:52am

OldFriends4Sal
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SoulAlive said:

If Prince had never taken Sheila under his wing,I still think she would have became a star anyway.She had so many other "connections" and high-profile gigs,she undoubtedly would have attempted a solo career....or a big record exec would have convinced her to do her own thing.

It was Prince and (Erotic City) the concept the utopian ideal and the song that put Sheila E on the map.

Not saying she had no good songs after she left the camp, but it was her time as a frontman protege that got Sheila E noticed. It was the Glamorous Life Erotic City (Purple Rain tour) & A Love Bizarre, Romance 1600 that did it, not really drumming for SOTT/Lovesexy.

But being in Prince's camp vs Lionel Ritchies camp are 2 very different things. Lionel was not churning out music like Prince and did not have the visuals in effect with his own band and other proteges.

.

the scene Prince created in 1980-1986(87) can't be understated

Sheila is a great percussionists, but don't think people go to see her for Sex Symbol or Heaven or her time on Magic Johnsons talk show...

[Edited 3/16/15 10:54am]

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #53 posted 03/16/15 3:34pm

terrig

OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

If Prince had never taken Sheila under his wing,I still think she would have became a star anyway.She had so many other "connections" and high-profile gigs,she undoubtedly would have attempted a solo career....or a big record exec would have convinced her to do her own thing.

It was Prince and (Erotic City) the concept the utopian ideal and the song that put Sheila E on the map.

Not saying she had no good songs after she left the camp, but it was her time as a frontman protege that got Sheila E noticed. It was the Glamorous Life Erotic City (Purple Rain tour) & A Love Bizarre, Romance 1600 that did it, not really drumming for SOTT/Lovesexy.

But being in Prince's camp vs Lionel Ritchies camp are 2 very different things. Lionel was not churning out music like Prince and did not have the visuals in effect with his own band and other proteges.

.

the scene Prince created in 1980-1986(87) can't be understated

Sheila is a great percussionists, but don't think people go to see her for Sex Symbol or Heaven or her time on Magic Johnsons talk show...

[Edited 3/16/15 10:54am]

I agree with wht you said about Prince in the 80s for sure, yes, ....BUT....Lionel Richie was EVERYWHERE in the 80's. He was a big deal, not in the smae way Prince was, but he left his mark on the decade for sure...Lionel Richie was no slouch sales wise - he was all over mtv, and he was often mentioned in the likes of Prince Michael Jackson, Madonna Lionel Bruce Bon Jovi Guns and Roses and Van Halen as owning the 80s. Michael Bolton and Lionel Richie had that easy listening/adult contemporary radio on lock lololol

I knew about Sheila from all the latin music played in my household before she hit Princes camp...people knew about Sheila ....and of course Prince gave her a different trajectory, but its not like that trajectory couldnt have happened without Prince. It def could have.

Lionel probably wished he put her upfront I bet you that much lololol



[Edited 3/16/15 15:36pm]

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Reply #54 posted 03/17/15 6:24am

OldFriends4Sal
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terrig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It was Prince and (Erotic City) the concept the utopian ideal and the song that put Sheila E on the map.

Not saying she had no good songs after she left the camp, but it was her time as a frontman protege that got Sheila E noticed. It was the Glamorous Life Erotic City (Purple Rain tour) & A Love Bizarre, Romance 1600 that did it, not really drumming for SOTT/Lovesexy.

But being in Prince's camp vs Lionel Ritchies camp are 2 very different things. Lionel was not churning out music like Prince and did not have the visuals in effect with his own band and other proteges.

.

the scene Prince created in 1980-1986(87) can't be understated

Sheila is a great percussionists, but don't think people go to see her for Sex Symbol or Heaven or her time on Magic Johnsons talk show...

[Edited 3/16/15 10:54am]

I agree with wht you said about Prince in the 80s for sure, yes, ....BUT....Lionel Richie was EVERYWHERE in the 80's. He was a big deal, not in the smae way Prince was, but he left his mark on the decade for sure...Lionel Richie was no slouch sales wise - he was all over mtv, and he was often mentioned in the likes of Prince Michael Jackson, Madonna Lionel Bruce Bon Jovi Guns and Roses and Van Halen as owning the 80s. Michael Bolton and Lionel Richie had that easy listening/adult contemporary radio on lock lololol

I knew about Sheila from all the latin music played in my household before she hit Princes camp...people knew about Sheila ....and of course Prince gave her a different trajectory, but its not like that trajectory couldnt have happened without Prince. It def could have.

Lionel probably wished he put her upfront I bet you that much lololol



[Edited 3/16/15 15:36pm]

I know how big Lionel was and is. Especially starting out with Commodores and then like many other hitting out his own star mark

.

But again Lionel didn't have that (Uptown) scene like Prince, Lionel wasn't churning out music/proteges the way Prince was.

As far as I know he never did. So I doubt that he would have with Sheila E

Even Sheila after a few years retreated to the background playing drums for Prince(even when he wanted her to lead some of her (Sheila E album) songs. She wouldn't.

.

And after seeing all that Lionel still never made an attempt to put someone in his band/camp out front.

She toured with him a bit in 1986.

I don't know of any other artists that were extending to proteges(except for Rick James:(Tina Marie, Mary Jane Girls, Eddie Murphy)), so I don't know how it would happen (outside of Prince)

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Reply #55 posted 03/26/15 6:35am

Rebeljuice

Its been shown time and time again that no-talent-wannabes can have huge success in the music industry. I dont think the problem with Prince proteges is their talent, or in some cases lack of it. I just think Prince has an inbuilt, natural fear of any of his proteges taking off and making a real success of it. This goes way back to the Time, the band "he feared the most".

Prince just never wants to be upstaged by anyone, least of all his own creations. Because of that, he suffocates them, scuppers their ambition, keeps complete control of their actions and stifles and creative juices they may have. That way he can steer them along the road of mediocrity until he loses interest. Then if they do try and fly high after he is done with them, they have less traction. Look how he scuppered the Time and Family comebacks and refused them to use their original names. He is a selfish, controlling, insecure and divisive little shit really.

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Reply #56 posted 03/26/15 8:00pm

JoshuaWho

SoulAlive said:

JoshuaWho said:

Get my Jill Jones CD out today and it struck me the same way it did when I bought the album back in the 80s: she really cant sing worth a damn. She was one of many hot chicks with marginal talent that Prince propped up with great music and production. Believe it or not, Vanity's voice is far more enjoyable to me. In fact, her Motown albums have some half way decent vocal moments. I always thought she got criticized for her sainging a little bit too much. Jill Jones, on the other hand, is a mystery to me. She doesnt even strike me as a good backup singer even though she obviously did it with Prince and others like Teena Marie.

falloff Jill Jones is one of the few Prince proteges who could actually sing.Her problem is that her career was mishandled by Prince,but she has talent.

I love Vanity,but she has never been able to sing biggrin On her Wild Animal album,all we hear from her is squealing and screeching....but you cannot call it singing.Let's be honest....she and Apollonia became stars strictly because of their looks,not their vocal talent.

Blaming Prince is pure bullshit. Others have proven this.

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Reply #57 posted 03/26/15 9:07pm

EddieC

terrig said:

JoshuaWho said:

GLamorous Life, Romance 1600, and the Purple Rain tour made SHeila Escovedo into SHeila E - and that is Prince. SHe would have been a respected musician without Prince for sure but she would not have been the star she became without him.



I disagree JoshuaWho...she was on her way...and at the time there were VERY FEW to possibly NO female drummers at the time...fwiw...she didnt fade into nothing afterwards...she kept on keepin on, because thats who girl was to begin with.

The fact is Prince did happen - so yeah of course, he raised her profile ...but did he 'make' her? No. She never came off as not having her own identity or personality. He changed her clothes. Every record on her albums has a Sheila sound and signature that makes her stand out as HER.

She couldn't have become a star if she didnt already HAVE IT. As evidenced by the protege pile left in the wake of lost opportunity of being unable to climb up after the boost they got from Prince. Sheila is the only one who really really made it solo.

its unfair to call her a protege is all I'm saying. She's not making erotic city sounding records now because she doesnt have to. Sheila was a valid band member and not a waste of Princes time and resources.

No one calles Jesse or Andre proteges...why is Sheila a protege?

Because Prince never wrote or produced entire albums for Jesse or Andre. Prince never said to them... hey, I'm gonna take you out from behind this instrument you are clearly competent at, put you in a different role, and have you sing songs and perform shows that, while slightly influenced by your personality, are primarily a way for me to get more of my music and vision out there...

.

In other words, because he never Morris Day'd them. He took two good drummers, with some undeveloped vocal talent and a fair amount of charisma, crafted a role and songs for them (taking advantage of their drum skills to help whip some of the tracks into shape). Morris really worked his fairly one-dimensional role, Sheila's was a little stronger and broader (because she had the I'm already a drummer thing going) than the pure sex image that the other female proteges were given (but let's be honest--if she couldn't have played and had that to feature, her persona back then wasn't much more compelling), but neither was required to be much more than a puppet. Morris has remained mostly content with re-hashing what Prince originally gave him--sometimes writing pastiches and parodies of what was already a parody, but not really moving much outside of the Time mode even when he isn't just doing the old tunes. Sheila's had to mostly move in a different direction, such that her old Prince songs are kind of jarringly out of place it seems to me.

.

Andre took one song, but his solo career (which started before Prince was really PRINCE!) was his own ... and he spent a long time (we're talking D'Angelo time, here) silent. Jesse was a live performer and occasional studio co-worker, but he never "performed" Prince songs in his voice. Jesse's songs as a bandleader were Jesse's songs. Jam and Lewis (though you don't mention them) also escape this because, again, they were hired hands (though skilled ones) playing live, but they never were the face of a Prince project.

.

Sheila's a protege because... well, she is. Just like Morris. She has some mainstream name recognition... you don't get that as a drummer alone (unless you're in a really, really big popular band), and that's what she is without Prince's influence. There are no vocal Sheila E. songs without Prince pushing it on her. There's almost certainly no Sheila E. led band situations, or even Sheila E. albums without the Prince years. And the recordings that opened that up to her are Prince recordings. She took the opening, and made a great deal of it. But without Prince nothing like the trajectory of her career would have happened.

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Reply #58 posted 03/27/15 1:31am

SoulAlive

Rebeljuice said:

Its been shown time and time again that no-talent-wannabes can have huge success in the music industry. I dont think the problem with Prince proteges is their talent, or in some cases lack of it. I just think Prince has an inbuilt, natural fear of any of his proteges taking off and making a real success of it. This goes way back to the Time, the band "he feared the most".

Prince just never wants to be upstaged by anyone, least of all his own creations. Because of that, he suffocates them, scuppers their ambition, keeps complete control of their actions and stifles and creative juices they may have. That way he can steer them along the road of mediocrity until he loses interest. Then if they do try and fly high after he is done with them, they have less traction. Look how he scuppered the Time and Family comebacks and refused them to use their original names. He is a selfish, controlling, insecure and divisive little shit really.

nod There is some truth to what you are saying.Prince wanted to have his own "organization",but he never wanted any of these people to get too popular.Look what happened in 1983 when The Time were getting all those rave reviews for their performances.He removed them from the tour in some of the major cities.He didn't want to risk getting upstaged by them.

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Reply #59 posted 03/27/15 1:38am

SoulAlive

JoshuaWho said:

Blaming Prince is pure bullshit. Others have proven this.

I've said this before: Prince is a musical genuis,but he's always been a poor manager of other artists.

In 1984,after the Time broke up,he formed two bands (The Family and Mazarati) and tried to groom them for success.Both bands released one album then quickly broke up.

Jill Jones is someone who could have been really BIG,if Prince had not mishandled her career.The talent was there.She can sing.Unfortunately,he took too long with her album while he focused on others.She got a raw deal.

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