HonestMan13 said:

They needed a non member to keep them in line and tell them what to do and when to do it.

B-I-N-G-O.

Militant said:

HonestMan13 said:

They needed a non member to keep them in line and tell them what to do and when to do it.

B-I-N-G-O.

Nonsense. They are not children.

The truth is, they aren't who you Prince fans think they are. They don't really fit into the little Prince box they were cast in but since they are the closest associated artist to Prince, there will always be that stigma. They have grown up and apart and have seperate ideas. That is more than obvious when you listen to Jesse's CD. He is in a James Brown mid-career state of mind. He wants to make music that inspires and unites people. Jimmy and Terry stay in producer mode. They do what they do. Condensate is a joint effort by the band but obviously J&T were at the helm because somebody had to bankroll the record. The Time was never gonna come back and make an album full of 9 minute long songs with endless synth solos. THEY COULD because they are all capable musicians but they wouldn't because its musical suicide in this day and age. The problem is that you had two members step up and lead when in the past, they were all on equal footing. Well, they aren't "The Time" anymore, really. They have all produced hits on their own and they are all leaders in thier own rights, so when you have a bunch of chiefs used to getting their way, its going to be a strained effort to unite. Princxe couldn't have united them because they all resent him. They aren't the starving background band they used to be. Jimmy & Terry definitely wouldn't take no shit from Prince these days. Jesse never really did. Monte & Jellybean both have their own things going as well. They are not who they were. Nothing could have held them together because they are different people in different places in their lives. They came together because of the fans and for nostalgia's sake and we got a good record from it. It would have been cool if we had gotten a tour out of it but I guess they could only pretend to be who they were for so long befoere the old habits start up and the old arguments resurface.

We got an album out of it. We should be happy we even got that considering where they all are in their careers these days.

BlaqueKnight said:

Militant said:

B-I-N-G-O.

Nonsense. They are not children.

The truth is, they aren't who you Prince fans think they are. They don't really fit into the little Prince box they were cast in but since they are the closest associated artist to Prince, there will always be that stigma. They have grown up and apart and have seperate ideas. That is more than obvious when you listen to Jesse's CD. He is in a James Brown mid-career state of mind. He wants to make music that inspires and unites people. Jimmy and Terry stay in producer mode. They do what they do. Condensate is a joint effort by the band but obviously J&T were at the helm because somebody had to bankroll the record. The Time was never gonna come back and make an album full of 9 minute long songs with endless synth solos. THEY COULD because they are all capable musicians but they wouldn't because its musical suicide in this day and age. The problem is that you had two members step up and lead when in the past, they were all on equal footing. Well, they aren't "The Time" anymore, really. They have all produced hits on their own and they are all leaders in thier own rights, so when you have a bunch of chiefs used to getting their way, its going to be a strained effort to unite. Princxe couldn't have united them because they all resent him. They aren't the starving background band they used to be. Jimmy & Terry definitely wouldn't take no shit from Prince these days. Jesse never really did. Monte & Jellybean both have their own things going as well. They are not who they were. Nothing could have held them together because they are different people in different places in their lives. They came together because of the fans and for nostalgia's sake and we got a good record from it. It would have been cool if we had gotten a tour out of it but I guess they could only pretend to be who they were for so long befoere the old habits start up and the old arguments resurface.

We got an album out of it. We should be happy we even got that considering where they all are in their careers these days.

Prince got a helluva lot more out of them in 1990 with the "Pandemonium" record. He got a #1 hit with them (their only #1 hit, I might add) with Jerk Out. This was when Jam and Lewis were arguably doing a helluva lot better than Prince was. This was after Jesse had trashed Prince in the magazines.

Whether or not they "took shit" from Prince or not, he kept that band in line with his leadership. This group of people (as a unit) only ever had success with Prince leading the way for them. That's a fact. You remove that leadership and what happens? Band falls apart. Jam & Lewis aren't the natural leaders of that band. They weren't even in the band when the band had their most mainstream visibility in the Purple Rain era. So just because they're bankrolling the album and because they're the most successful people in the band, doesn't mean the other members are gonna fall back and let them run the show.

The other 6 members are unified against Jesse, cos he's the one that split. I kicked it with Bean after the fDeluxe show in London and we talked about it, and he was mad as hell. But I don't think for one second that that was the only issue they had. Jesse has his own version of events and chances are there's some validity to some of them.

Prince could have united them even if they do resent him (which I don't believe they all do, I think Bean does from what he's said in interviews, but I don't think Morris, Jam, Monte, Jerome do.....who knows about Terry and Jesse). He could have united them under the promise of making a real Time record, because no matter what, it ain't a real Time record without Prince and that's why they couldn't use the name. They would have jumped at the chance to tour with him as well. fDeluxe have arguably had more issues with Prince than the Time have, given that Paul and Prince didn't talk for the better part of 20 years and Susannah and Prince are always gonna have that awkwardness of being ex-lovers who were at one point engaged, and yet they were still open to touring with him as well. And Bean is in that band, too, so even with his resentment he was still down.

Preach!!!!

BlaqueKnight said:

Militant said:

B-I-N-G-O.

Nonsense. They are not children.

The truth is, they aren't who you Prince fans think they are. They don't really fit into the little Prince box they were cast in but since they are the closest associated artist to Prince, there will always be that stigma. They have grown up and apart and have seperate ideas. That is more than obvious when you listen to Jesse's CD. He is in a James Brown mid-career state of mind. He wants to make music that inspires and unites people. Jimmy and Terry stay in producer mode. They do what they do. Condensate is a joint effort by the band but obviously J&T were at the helm because somebody had to bankroll the record. The Time was never gonna come back and make an album full of 9 minute long songs with endless synth solos. THEY COULD because they are all capable musicians but they wouldn't because its musical suicide in this day and age. The problem is that you had two members step up and lead when in the past, they were all on equal footing. Well, they aren't "The Time" anymore, really. They have all produced hits on their own and they are all leaders in thier own rights, so when you have a bunch of chiefs used to getting their way, its going to be a strained effort to unite. Princxe couldn't have united them because they all resent him. They aren't the starving background band they used to be. Jimmy & Terry definitely wouldn't take no shit from Prince these days. Jesse never really did. Monte & Jellybean both have their own things going as well. They are not who they were. Nothing could have held them together because they are different people in different places in their lives. They came together because of the fans and for nostalgia's sake and we got a good record from it. It would have been cool if we had gotten a tour out of it but I guess they could only pretend to be who they were for so long befoere the old habits start up and the old arguments resurface.

We got an album out of it. We should be happy we even got that considering where they all are in their careers these days.

Very well said The idea that Prince is the only one who could have kept these guys together is ridiculous.It was his ego and dominating ways that broke them up in the first place.

"kept them in line"? You make it sound as if these guys are talentless children who needed a babysitter to do everything for them.The "leadership" that you speak of created alot of drama and problems for them,in addition to the success.When it became clear that The Time were a credible (and very exciting) live act,Prince removed them from some of the shows on the '1999' tour.He was afraid of getting upstaged by them.Then,he fired Jam and Lewis because they were using their *own* talents to write and produce for others.He didn't like that.That's the kind of "leadership" that tore the band apart.And let's be real....even if Prince had been in control of 'Condensate' and had these guys touring with him,alot of those same problems from back then would have surfaced again.Prince is never happy unless he's at war with someone.He thrives on conflict and drama.Like I said in a previous thread,wait until about 6 months from now and we will be hearing about drama with 3rdEyeGirl,lol.

Militant said:

Whether or not they "took shit" from Prince or not, he kept that band in line with his leadership. This group of people (as a unit) only ever had success with Prince leading the way for them. That's a fact. You remove that leadership and what happens? Band falls apart. Jam & Lewis aren't the natural leaders of that band. They weren't even in the band when the band had their most mainstream visibility in the Purple Rain era. So just because they're bankrolling the album and because they're the most successful people in the band, doesn't mean the other members are gonna fall back and let them run the show.

Prince may be a musical genuis,but he's NEVER been a good leader of his protege bands.Look what happened with The Family and Mazarati.Two promising bands who released one album on his label then broke up or went elsewhere.Notice that he's never been able to create another successful protege band after 1986.

You do realize that,these days,a reunited funk band from the 80s isn't gonna have much success on the charts? Hell,Prince can't even get his own recent music to sell alot of copies and get heavy radio airplay.So let's drop this crazy idea that their album would have been successful if Prince had been in charge of it.

Militant said:

This group of people (as a unit) only ever had success with Prince leading the way for them. That's a fact.

SoulAlive said:

Prince may be a musical genuis,but he's NEVER been a good leader of his protege bands.Look what happened with The Family and Mazarati.Two promising bands who released one album on his label then broke up or went elsewhere.Notice that he's never been able to create another successful protege band after 1986.

It's so easy to blame Prince, isn't it? But that doesn't align with the facts. So here's some facts.

The Family split because Paul left the group after being offered a solo deal. Fact. Prince invested a lot of time, money, and some top-notch material into that band. He groomed Paul for stardom. Paul will tell you that himself. And then, because Prince wasn't able to give as much time to the band due to being busy, Paul bounced and broke up the band. These are facts.

Mazarati? Fantastic band. But not Prince's project. That was Brown Mark's project. Prince invested money into releasing the project on his label, and offered them not one - not two - but THREE great songs. And helped them re-write two others! Very generous, considering it wasn't his project. Yes, what happened with "Kiss" was unfornate for them, but their demo wasn't great. AND they turned down "Jerk Out" after recording a demo, which went on to be a #1 hit for The Time.

Mazarati's demise had nothing to do with Prince. Brown Mark CHOSE to leave the Prince camp. He left The Revolution. He wasn't fired or let go like Wendy, Lisa and Bobby. He could have stayed, as Dr. Fink did, but he chose to bounce to Motown, and he took Mazarati with him. That's why the second Mazarati album came out on Motown Records. There was even one Paisley-recorded track on that second Mazarati album (Don't Leave Me Baby) , which again Prince was generous enough to allow them to keep.

By this time, though, lead singer Sir Casey Terry had split. He wasn't on a lot of the songs on the second album. He had been replaced by G-Sharp.

Even now, with the Mazarati reunion that's going on - Brown Mark is currently looking for a new frontman. There's always been issues with Sir Casey Terry. Again, that has nothing do with Prince.

The Time's issues also have nothing to do with Prince. Prince has moved on since the issues that were apparent in the 80's. But as a unit, there's too much ego problems and in-fighting for it to work.

Facts are facts - when you've got the reformed original lineup of The Time, there's only two projects you can look at. "Pandemonium" (with Prince) and "Condensate" (without Prince). One of those projects was succesful and yielded the band's only number one hit. One of those project fell apart almost as soon as the album came out and after a handful of shows.

Can't argue with the facts.

The TRUTH will set U free!!!!

Why are we still debating this?

The facts are that the original Time members got together and could not stay together without Prince being involved in the drama.

Stop making excuses for them. Some people here just can't bring themselves to admit that the Time members messed up on their own and Prince had nothing to do with it. When it comes to Prince yall just roll with it, Prince aint shit this Prince aint shit that (i'm summarizing ), but when it comes to the O7 break up excuses, excuses.

wonder505 said:

Why are we still debating this?

The facts are that the original Time members got together and could not stay together without Prince being involved in the drama.

Stop making excuses for them. Some people here just can't bring themselves to admit that the Time members messed up on their own and Prince had nothing to do with it. When it comes to Prince yall just roll with it, Prince aint shit this Prince aint shit that (i'm summarizing ), but when it comes to the O7 break up excuses, excuses.

They didn't stay together with Prince's involvement, either. Jesse left and only came back for brief periods. Jimmy and Terry were fired and only came back for brief periods. The original band stayed together in the beginning and that's it. I like the album they did and so do a lot of other people. Times have changed. In the 90s, Prince still had enough money to pull together his dream projects like Graffitti Bridge. Those days are gone. The band got back together for nostalgia's sake but the moment passed. It was what it was. If Prince were involved, it wouldn't have made a difference. Jesse might have even left quicker.

[Edited 3/18/14 8:38am]

BlaqueKnight said:

wonder505 said:

Why are we still debating this?

The facts are that the original Time members got together and could not stay together without Prince being involved in the drama.

Stop making excuses for them. Some people here just can't bring themselves to admit that the Time members messed up on their own and Prince had nothing to do with it. When it comes to Prince yall just roll with it, Prince aint shit this Prince aint shit that (i'm summarizing ), but when it comes to the O7 break up excuses, excuses.

They didn't stay together with Prince's involvement, either. Jesse left and only came back for brief periods. Jimmy and Terry were fired and only came back for brief periods. The original band stayed together in the beginning and that's it. I like the album they did and so do a lot of other people. Times have changed. In the 90s, Prince still had enough money to pull together his dream projects like Graffitti Bridge. Those days are gone. The band got back together for nostalgia's sake but the moment passed. It was what it was. If Prince were involved, it wouldn't have made a difference. Jesse might have even left quicker.

[Edited 3/18/14 8:38am]

Sorry but you're still making excuses for them IMO we'll have to agree to disagree. They may have gotten together for nostalgia's sake but they could not stay working together as a group. It was more than a "moment passing" problem. ego's and controlling issues and lord knows what else what went down behind the scenes. I am sure if Prince was involved and yall would tear him another one and blame him for everything.

[Edited 3/18/14 8:59am]

purpleshadow said:

Jesse is probably wrong about the reason for Prince not allowing them to use the name The Time since he didn't allow Fdeluxe to use their original name neither..

[Edited 2/5/14 23:48pm]

I'm quite sure that Prince wants the names cuz he wants the masters and the right to use them (he may already have them for The Family and Pandemonium but this is unverified, since The Family was a very early PP release and may escape the status of later releases, and Pandemonium was a joint venture between WB, PP and Reprise and I'm not sure whether the few Reprise/PP albums were given back to P alongside the rest or if they remained part of the WB catalogue). If TO7 and fDeluxe had been allowed to record and release under their former names, that could have given them some legal ground to claim the past records as "theirs" and that they're entitled if not to own the masters, at least to receive a considerage percentage on remasters income, and Prince certainly wants to keep full control on these albums' fate, as well as the biggest share of the money they may generate. This seems to be corroborated by Prince attempting to copyright the names Mazarati and Good Question a few years back (2 albums he most likely owns the masters of): why in the world would he want to copyright the names of a band he was barely involved with and another he had absolutely nothing to do with except having them on his label, if not for improving his legal capacity to remain in full control of future rereleases?

Eventually we may be in a situation when, while Prince will be fighting WB in order to get his masters back, some ex-PP artists whose music wasn't Prince's may be fighting Prince in order to get their masters back from him

That's only speculation, though.

Jesse has been given up some HARDCORE facts lately! My mouth is still dropped to the floor...

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Jesse has been given up some HARDCORE facts lately! My mouth is still dropped to the floor...

Oh you just love facts when they don't make Prince look bad, huh? How convenient...