I think we can all agree that Paisley Park Records started out with alot of promise and potential.The first few records released on this label (The Family,Mazarati,Sheila E.'s second album and of course,Prince's own albums) were good records that were well-received by fans.Also,the Madhouse albums and Jill Jones' debut album are also fan favorites.So it seems to me that the problems began after 1987.The label struggled until it was finally shut down in 1994.What should have been done differently,to make this label survive a little longer?

I don't think anything would've changed had it continued. There would've still been Mayte and NPG albums, and they probably would've received much the same reception as they did on NPG Records.

In general I think it was just old fashioned mis-management. I mean, the music wasn't the problem - Sheila, Jill, The Family, Madhouse - this is Prince at his best, at his peak. It was just a lack of infrastructure and investment. Sad, but hidden gems are rewarding for the listener, no

This from Alan Leeds Q&A from the org prince.org/msg/7/171968

.

QUESTION 12:
Q. If you could go back and change something about your time with Prince, what would it be?
(Orger: babynoz)

A. I'm not much for hindsight, because there are usually reasons why things turn out the way they do. For example, I would have loved if Paisley Park Records had turned into a ‘real’ record label - in the sense of seeking talent with legitimate and competitive market potential - but it was never meant to be.

Warner Brothers' original interest in the joint venture was based on Prince's success as a producer of acts such as The Time, Vanity 6 and The Family. Unfortunately, by the time he had authority over his own label, Prince's ambitions as a producer had changed. Some of the early signings were obscure acts that Prince's managers handled. Unwisely, Prince failed to disguise his lack of interest in most of these projects from Warner Brothers.

Signing icons like George Clinton and Mavis Staples were admirable gestures. Prince made some very nice records with Mavis, but trying to market her in a contemporary fashion - IE "Melody Cool" - didn't make sense to me. As for my friend George, his affairs were then in disarray and we inherited an unfinished album that was already dated. Warners and George had both hoped Prince would devote more time towards working with him but it never really happened. Soon the label became known as a playground for Prince girlfriends as albums by Jill Jones (whom I adore - a more talented lady than the album suggests), Taja Seville, Ingrid Chavez and finally an unknown Carmen Electra, came and went.

The fact is, unlike those who are primarily producers by trade, Prince's interest in working with other artists usually hinges on their ability to fit into an alter ego role or some other aspect of his own orbit. It worked like a charm with Vanity and Morris Day, but if an artist was married to his or her own ideas and concepts, Prince would often lose interest. And when he lost interest, that usually transformed into a lack of enthusiasm in the Warner Brothers promotion and marketing departments. I ended up spending several very frustrating years trying to get Warners and the industry to take Paisley Park Records seriously when Paisley Park Records simply didn't want to be taken seriously. Without competitive product and Prince's consistent enthusiasm, it was a no-win.

I hesitated citing this example because I don't want it to appear as sour grapes - I learned a lot and appreciated the experience of running a label. But I think the real tragedy is Prince's lost opportunity to build a legitimate, respected forum for his extra-curricular output.

very good analysis by Alan Leeds

Prince had alot of amazingly talented people around him.He really should have utilized their talents more.For example,he could have offered Andre Cymone a job as an in-house producer.Andre's production work helped to turn Jody Watley into a solo superstar.BrownMark did a good job with the Mazarati album,so Prince should have kept him around and offered him a similar deal.No record label will succeed because of one person.You gotta bring in an entire crew of talented people to help out.

After 1987,there were some questionable signings to the label...Taja Sevelle,Dale Bozzio,Good Question,The Three O' Clock,etc.These acts were risky choices and only one of 'em scored a hit single (Good Question's "Got A New Love").As Alan Leeds pointed out,Prince just didn't seem all that interested in the acts that he didn't create himself.

I fully agree with what Alan Leeds said but I actually liked the Jill Jones album, I think the problem with it was just the bad timing, it came out two years later than it should have. If that had been released during the Purple Rain era it could´ve been a commercial success.

Also, the Carmen Electra album was one of the last proverbial nails in the coffin....so much money went into that album but even back then it sounded horribly dated and just plain bad. What a waste of time, energy and money.

There are so many "What if...." and "shoulda woulda coulda" questions hanging in the air regarding the possibilities he had with Paisley Park. At some point, he could have signed Jodeci but he turned Devante Swing down. This could´ve generated a lot of money but I guess at that point Paisley Park as a label was already finished.

SoulAlive said:

Prince had alot of amazingly talented people around him.He really should have utilized their talents more.For example,he could have offered Andre Cymone a job as an in-house producer.Andre's production work helped to turn Jody Watley into a solo superstar.BrownMark did a good job with the Mazarati album,so Prince should have kept him around and offered him a similar deal.No record label will succeed because of one person.You gotta bring in an entire crew of talented people to help out.

After 1987,there were some questionable signings to the label...Taja Sevelle,Dale Bozzio,Good Question,The Three O' Clock,etc.These acts were risky choices and only one of 'em scored a hit single (Good Question's "Got A New Love").As Alan Leeds pointed out,Prince just didn't seem all that interested in the acts that he didn't create himself.

Absolutely ! Now add Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis to those you already mentioned above, and think of the possibilities if all parties involved could´ve have tamed their egos a bit. Add to that the expertise and knowledge and experience of Mr.Alan Leeds, who had already worked as a tour manager for James Brown, and Paisley Park could´ve been something bigger than Motown.

Prince. Pretty simple.
He did not now how to promote properly - would not let people run the business- and brought stuff WB said they didn'twant (Carmen). He also had no idea about budget, etc.
It all comes back to him.

You know that Tony LeMans had Lenny Kravitz in his band...doing what Lenny ended up doing, and Prince said no one wanted to hear that music. So Lenny loeft and tehy mad a decent pop record with a guy that looked way more R&R. Of course Lenny blew up. So he also really didn't have an ear for how the industry was changing.

Could it ever be possible for Prince to have his own label again... even if it was just for the Internet or fan clubs? I mean, if he's already only releasing downloads (without a proper label) and getting paid, why can't he "produce" his associated artists (and some new ones for the next century) and still capitalize all to himself? It might take some of the pressure off of him to find a major label and release just his own stuff; he could be a producer for others - as he was in the heyday of Paisley Park.

This is what went wrong!!!

KoolEaze said:

I fully agree with what Alan Leeds said but I actually liked the Jill Jones album, I think the problem with it was just the bad timing, it came out two years later than it should have. If that had been released during the Purple Rain era it could´ve been a commercial success.

I agree! Unlike many of the others,she wasn't able to benefit from the Purple Rain hype.Her album should have been completed and released in late 1984 or early '85.

KoolEaze said:

SoulAlive said:

Prince had alot of amazingly talented people around him.He really should have utilized their talents more.For example,he could have offered Andre Cymone a job as an in-house producer.Andre's production work helped to turn Jody Watley into a solo superstar.BrownMark did a good job with the Mazarati album,so Prince should have kept him around and offered him a similar deal.No record label will succeed because of one person.You gotta bring in an entire crew of talented people to help out.

After 1987,there were some questionable signings to the label...Taja Sevelle,Dale Bozzio,Good Question,The Three O' Clock,etc.These acts were risky choices and only one of 'em scored a hit single (Good Question's "Got A New Love").As Alan Leeds pointed out,Prince just didn't seem all that interested in the acts that he didn't create himself.

Absolutely ! Now add Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis to those you already mentioned above, and think of the possibilities if all parties involved could´ve have tamed their egos a bit. Add to that the expertise and knowledge and experience of Mr.Alan Leeds, who had already worked as a tour manager for James Brown, and Paisley Park could´ve been something bigger than Motown.

exactly! Paisley Park could have been the Motown of the 80s,if things had been done differently.

Honestly most of the albums released on that label were really good and made sense in the musical context of their time. Lack of promotion and enthusiasm was obvioulsy why the label failed that much.

KoolEaze said:

There are so many "What if...." and "shoulda woulda coulda" questions hanging in the air regarding the possibilities he had with Paisley Park. At some point, he could have signed Jodeci but he turned Devante Swing down. This could´ve generated a lot of money but I guess at that point Paisley Park as a label was already finished.

Prince also could have signed Tony! Toni! Tone!.Sheila E. knew these guys and brought their demo to Prince,but according to the guys in that band,"he kept frontin".Several years later,he missed out on the opportunity to sign Meshell Ndegeocello.Two talented acts that he could have signed.Instead,he was more focused on acts like TC Ellis and Carmen Elektra

I really think that the Carmen Elektra album was the last straw.Over $2 million was spent to promote it,and it bombed big time.Warner Bros. shut down the label soon thereafter.

KoolEaze said:

Also, the Carmen Electra album was one of the last proverbial nails in the coffin....so much money went into that album but even back then it sounded horribly dated and just plain bad. What a waste of time, energy and money.

Since we're gonna speculate, just imagine Tony Toni Toné instead of Good Question and Lenny Kravitz getting a deal alongside Tony LeMans. This coulda changed everything (or not, since no matter how good an artist, lack of promotion will kill them.)

I read not long ago that with Saadiq being in Sheila's band, TTT was almost signed to the label in 88, I forgot what finally prevented it to happen (not sure if the article even said it anyway) but it's a pity.

We also know that Kravitz was supposed to be among the Coco Boys in P's 1987/88 idea for a musical/movie, so P was likely aware of Kravitz' music at that point. Plus with the Kravitz/Chavez/Madonna connection we see that all these people were highly interconnected.

The Cinderella Theory was a masterpiece IMHO but it was damn too ahead of its time and experimental to make an impression on the charts. A pity that sometimes quality will stand in the way of commercial success. Leeds in his org Q&A mentions that they "inherited an album half finished and already outdated". I'm not sure what he means by that, since the outdated album was the shelved Funkadelic album By Way Of The Drum, which sounds like a copoanion to 1985's Some Of My Best Jokes Are Friends, but I don't see how anything on The Cinderella Theory could sound outdated in 89

Hey... Man, Smell My Finger had a much bigger commercial potential IMHO, it was all new jack swing and the 2 singles were as strong as can be. I remember MTV Europe played the vids a little bit back the, and there was some promo at least in the US but not so much (for example these singles never made it to any French radio). Once again the very unconventional structure of these tracks could have played against them despite their deadly grooves. Paint The White House Black remains one of the most astonishing rap marathon of all times if u ask me

Carmen Electra was a total fiasco by definition. I never understood how Prince could seriously believe that this album could be a huge success. It was so damn cheesy and there was no way the people (if any) who'd like dance crap such as Fantasia Erotica or Go Go Dancer would like the funk/rap orientation of the rest of the album (and vice versa).

I believe Pandemonium sold very well, didn't it? Maybe it was even the label's most profitable record? SO inviting Jam & Lewis on board was definitely a good idea.

But globally as I said above the label released some strong albums, even the non-Prince ones.

Mazarati is now a classic, cult album, and for reasons.

Sheila E., Taje Sevelle, Riot In English and Tony LeMans were solid synthpop efforts. Sheila E. was an instant fan favorite and could have benefited from bth more promotion and the fact that Sheila was already established at this point. Taja Sevelle was more commercial with a "Madonna-like" sound, and I really believe it could have sold much more. Riot In English remains a synthpop masterpiece to that day (when, u're into silly synthpop, and I am) but was maybe too silly for mass audiences, and Tony LeMans benefits from both Tony's strong funk and David Gamson's brilliant prodution, which make it sound like a follow-up to Scritti Politti's Provision (unfortunately Scritti Politti never really made it in the US).

May1 19, 1991 is an absolute masterpiece IMHO, a visionnary record that predated and announced trip-hop in many ways, and one of the very few times Prince went out of his usual territories, with the Koppleman and Seacer tracks being just as brilliant? There was no way this could be a hit, it was too experimental, but it should have received a much more massive critical acclaim.

The Voice, True Confessions, Good Question and Things Left Unsaid were not memorable albums in their respective genres but they were not as bad as some said. The Voice was a decent mix of old skool and new jack swing but honestly I don't see it having had more success than it did. Stupid as it was, with proper promotion Good Question could have been a hit (it wasn't worth than TTT's first 2 albums, which are terrible by comparison to the delicious Sons Of Soul and House Of Music, and the idea of a teenage black boys band was the same). True Confessions is a cute effort, totally irrelevant by comparison to, say, the OST of New Jack City, but sweet. Things Left Unsaid has an elevator jazz feel of sorts but it's a smooth listen, but of course there was no way that album could have sold because it was too jazzy for the masses and too pop for jazz audiences.

As for Kahoru Kohiruimaki's 2 Paisley Park albums and Jacob Armen, I've never even been able to listen to them in their entirety. I guess the first 2 did ok in Japan, and as for Armen since only maybe 10 copies were printed I guess we'll never know

So in the end that label had a GODDAMN good catalogue if you ask me. Just it would have needed a few additionnal STRONG individual songwriters/performers, such as what Madonna got with Me'shell and Alanis (TTT and Kravitz could have been that for PP), people who really had a strong star potential. But more than that it needed people working hard and seriously at promoting the shit. Taja Sevelle, Good Question or Tony LeMans could have been turned into profitable acts if WB had put all their energies into promoting them.

Also, I always wondered why Taja's Fountain Free hadn't been released on PP, since she was still with WB. Anyone knows the story?

I dunno. I bought the shit and I bought EVERY damn bit of it. I even did it two or three times in instances of going from vinyl to tape to CD. No regrets. In fact, I miss it and only wish the CRAP that's out today only sounded HALF as "bad" as some of the Paisley Park releases. Hell, I'd still be buying 'em IF THEY WERE BEING PUT OUT.

databank said:

Since we're gonna speculate, just imagine Tony Toni Toné instead of Good Question and Lenny Kravitz getting a deal alongside Tony LeMans. This coulda changed everything (or not, since no matter how good an artist, lack of promotion will kill them.)

I read not long ago that with Saadiq being in Sheila's band, TTT was almost signed to the label in 88, I forgot what finally prevented it to happen (not sure if the article even said it anyway) but it's a pity.

They said Prince was gonna sign them,but "he kept frontin"...playing mind games with them.They were able to quickly get a record deal elsewhere (EastWest Records) and release a debut album.One track,"Born Not To Know, features the lyric "things are getting crazy/I ain't wearing Paisley",which many people assume was directed at Prince.

databank said:

I believe Pandemonium sold very well, didn't it? Maybe it was even the label's most profitable record? SO inviting Jam & Lewis on board was definitely a good idea.

Yes,Pandemonium did very well.It was certified gold...one of the few Paisley Park albums to reach that status.

databank said:

So in the end that label had a GODDAMN good catalogue if you ask me. Just it would have needed a few additionnal STRONG individual songwriters/performers, such as what Madonna got with Me'shell and Alanis (TTT and Kravitz could have been that for PP), people who really had a strong star potential. But more than that it needed people working hard and seriously at promoting the shit. Taja Sevelle, Good Question or Tony LeMans could have been turned into profitable acts if WB had put all their energies into promoting them.

Also, I always wondered why Taja's Fountain Free hadn't been released on PP, since she was still with WB. Anyone knows the story?

I gotta disagree Good Question had a very generic 80s pop/dance sound.There's no way that they could have lasted long.Taja Sevelle's album has some decent moments,but let's face it...she just didn't have the "it" factor.Tony LeMans was a talented guy,but I think his album is mediocre.

And that was one of the major problems with Paisley Park Records in the late 80s: there wasn't alot of outstanding music.The best music from that label was released earlier in the decade (1985-87).After that,there was alot of odd,quirky releases that didn't stand a chance.

When Prince re-negotiated his contract with Warners in 1992,they agreed to pump alot more money into Paisley Park Records.They assumed that,this time,Prince was serious about turning things around and rejuvenating his label.At this point,Prince would have been smart to sign some truly talented artists,with some truly great music..to show Warners that he means business.Instead,he convinced them to shell out a ton of money and promotion for the Carmen Elektra album.This was a bad move and it only reinforced the perception that Paisley Park Records was nothing more than Prince's own personal playground,where he rewarded his "girlfriends" with record deals (regardless of how much talent they had).Meanwhile,Madonna's Maverick Records was signing some truly edgy,artistic artists like Meshell Ndegeocello and Alanis Morrisette.

databank said:

Carmen Electra was a total fiasco by definition. I never understood how Prince could seriously believe that this album could be a huge success. It was so damn cheesy and there was no way the people (if any) who'd like dance crap such as Fantasia Erotica or Go Go Dancer would like the funk/rap orientation of the rest of the album (and vice versa).

databank said:

Mazarati is now a classic, cult album, and for reasons.

the Mazarati album is excellent.What I love about it is,it features the cold,electronic 1983/84 "Minneapolis Sound" that Prince had abandoned (on his own albums) at that point.BrownMark did a superb job with the production,which is why Prince should have turned him into an in-house producer.Saleswise,the Mazarati album didn't do too bad,either.The second single "100 MPH" was a Top 10 R&B hit.

FormerlyKnownAs said:

I dunno. I bought the shit and I bought EVERY damn bit of it. I even did it two or three times in instances of going from vinyl to tape to CD. No regrets. In fact, I miss it and only wish the CRAP that's out today only sounded HALF as "bad" as some of the Paisley Park releases. Hell, I'd still be buying 'em IF THEY WERE BEING PUT OUT.

I have to admit,I bought all those records too...even the crappy ones Some of those albums were so obscure and under-promoted that when I showed it to friends,they were like "what the hell is this?!" lol..

Here's an example of what went wrong with Paisley Park Records in the late 80s the music to this song is OK,but Dale has a really odd vocal style.

SoulAlive said:

Here's an example of what went wrong with Paisley Park Records in the late 80s the music to this song is OK,but Dale has a really odd vocal style.

Well, being a Frank Zappa alumni and having had some success with Missing Persons, Dale was actually, with Three O'Clock (Oh God! I forgot Three O'Clock in my review above, a very solid pop album Vermillion if u ask me!) one of the only PP artists to have had a career before being signed, so getting her aboard made sense in terms of business.

Her voice IS odd and... dude! That's the whole damn charm of it! Dale isn't a very talented songwrtier of whatever so I ain't trying to compare but Kate Bush and Björk have odd voices too and that's partof the genius of their signature. Dale's voice is one of her trongest assets as a performer!

SoulAlive said:

databank said:

So in the end that label had a GODDAMN good catalogue if you ask me. Just it would have needed a few additionnal STRONG individual songwriters/performers, such as what Madonna got with Me'shell and Alanis (TTT and Kravitz could have been that for PP), people who really had a strong star potential. But more than that it needed people working hard and seriously at promoting the shit. Taja Sevelle, Good Question or Tony LeMans could have been turned into profitable acts if WB had put all their energies into promoting them.

Also, I always wondered why Taja's Fountain Free hadn't been released on PP, since she was still with WB. Anyone knows the story?

I gotta disagree Good Question had a very generic 80s pop/dance sound.There's no way that they could have lasted long.Taja Sevelle's album has some decent moments,but let's face it...she just didn't have the "it" factor.Tony LeMans was a talented guy,but I think his album is mediocre.

And that was one of the major problems with Paisley Park Records in the late 80s: there wasn't alot of outstanding music.The best music from that label was released earlier in the decade (1985-87).After that,there was alot of odd,quirky releases that didn't stand a chance.

Let's be honest: at the end of the day it's all about ur tastes and mine, and obviously they ain't the same but that doesn't say much about the quality of the music itself. I'm a big Scritti Politti fan and when u're that, Tony LeMans is an album u're gonna love. Once again my views are biased because I'm a huge synthpop fan and most of these PP records had a strong synthpop signature to them.

As for Taja and Good Question... For one thing I don't believe in the "it". I mean where was Whitney Houston's it? Gimme a break! It's all about marketing. But I'm 100% with you on that, Taja Sevelle and Good Question had a very generic sound and that's precisely why I believe these records could have known some fair success. I mean come on! Do u remember that boy band, Bros? Do you remember Eighth Wonder? Do you remember Toni Tony Toné's first 2 albums? Do you remember Whitney Houston's whole damn discography? Wanna talk about Kenny G? All these acts had the word "generic" tatooed on their forehead when it comes to their sound, and all of them enjoyed massive success in the late 80's. Generic SELLS. Always had, always will. If properly promoted, of course ^^

SoulAlive said:

databank said:

Since we're gonna speculate, just imagine Tony Toni Toné instead of Good Question and Lenny Kravitz getting a deal alongside Tony LeMans. This coulda changed everything (or not, since no matter how good an artist, lack of promotion will kill them.)

I read not long ago that with Saadiq being in Sheila's band, TTT was almost signed to the label in 88, I forgot what finally prevented it to happen (not sure if the article even said it anyway) but it's a pity.

They said Prince was gonna sign them,but "he kept frontin"...playing mind games with them.They were able to quickly get a record deal elsewhere (EastWest Records) and release a debut album.One track,"Born Not To Know, features the lyric "things are getting crazy/I ain't wearing Paisley",which many people assume was directed at Prince.

Prince really was an idiot on that one

SoulAlive said:

databank said:

Mazarati is now a classic, cult album, and for reasons.

the Mazarati album is excellent.What I love about it is,it features the cold,electronic 1983/84 "Minneapolis Sound" that Prince had abandoned (on his own albums) at that point.BrownMark did a superb job with the production,which is why Prince should have turned him into an in-house producer.Saleswise,the Mazarati album didn't do too bad,either.The second single "100 MPH" was a Top 10 R&B hit.

I think P usually only allowed people who he didn't feel "threaten" him or his authority to do stuff for PP. David Z. and Eric Leeds are the sweetest guys ever. Levi never had any interest in being a solo act. Michael was only an engineer. Ricky Peterson was established as an elevator jazz artist and had nothing to prove besides doing the job preperly... Now Mico and Mark and Prince's bandmembers in general were kept at bay from producing anything save Mazarati for Mark, and that may have something to do with the fact that Prince was trying to keep his staff under control and calm down their desires to go solo. He'd fired Jam & Lewis for that. He'd lost Morris, Jesse, André, Dez, St. Paul and Vanity TO that. Back then the fact that virtually every one in the band dreamt of being the next Prince was probably a problem for him. Mazarati is a funk masterpiece without a doubt, it embodies everything that was great about the MPLS sound.

databank said:

SoulAlive said:

Here's an example of what went wrong with Paisley Park Records in the late 80s the music to this song is OK,but Dale has a really odd vocal style.

Well, being a Frank Zappa alumni and having had some success with Missing Persons, Dale was actually, with Three O'Clock (Oh God! I forgot Three O'Clock in my review above, a very solid pop album Vermillion if u ask me!) one of the only PP artists to have had a career before being signed, so getting her aboard made sense in terms of business.

Her voice IS odd and... dude! That's the whole damn charm of it! Dale isn't a very talented songwrtier of whatever so I ain't trying to compare but Kate Bush and Björk have odd voices too and that's partof the genius of their signature. Dale's voice is one of her trongest assets as a performer!

hey,,if you like her voice,more power to you to me,she sounds like a wounded cat