I was wondering the time Prince fired Terry Lewis and Jimmy Jam for missing a concert during the 1999 tour and Prince had to play bass that night to cover for Terry; did somebody play Jimmy keyboard parts? And after the firing did Prince play bass for The Time for the remainder of the tour or did somebody else? And what city was this concert in when this all started? I've seem comments on youtube that Lewis and Jam were stuck in Atlanta and of course the concert was somewhere else or is it the other way around?

When Jimmy and Terry missed the show, Prince had Jerome miming while he played the bass. Lisa played the keyboards.

Prince didn't fire Jimmy and Terry until after the tour.

I don't know what city the show was that they missed.

It might have been Phoenix, but the info is in one of those books like DMSR, I just can't remember where I read it.

This was the concert:

http://www.princevault.co...arch,_1983

By this stage in the tour, the Time had already been dropped as support for the preceding New York performance. When Jam and Lewis failed to make the San Antonio concert, they were reportedly fined - not fired. As in New York, The Time did not feature at Universal City, California:

http://www.princevault.co...arch,_1983

langebleu said:

This was the concert:

http://www.princevault.co...arch,_1983

By this stage in the tour, the Time had already been dropped as support for the preceding New York performance. When Jam and Lewis failed to make the San Antonio concert, they were reportedly fined - not fired. As in New York, The Time did not feature at Universal City, California:

http://www.princevault.co...arch,_1983

Hasn't Prince said that he did not fire them, but that Morris did because it was his band. He stated that Morris asked him what would he do in the situation and Prince told him, but that the choice was utimately Morris's

Do we believe that

PurpleRayven said:

Hasn't Prince said that he did not fire them, but that Morris did because it was his band. He stated that Morris asked him what would he do in the situation and Prince told him, but that the choice was utimately Morris's

Do we believe that

Yeah,Prince said this in his 1990 Rolling Stone cover story/interview "I didn't fire Jimmy and Terry",he said.

Monday, April 18, 1983 (Sunset Sound, Studio 2)

Prince was continuing the work on various tracks for The Time. As was common during the Ice Cream Castle sessions, several members of the band were present. Today, the session was scheduled to begin at 6pm, but was delayed for a band meeting between Prince and The Time. Prince had been upset for a while about Jimmy and Terry missing a gig and he felt that they were cashing in on the Minneapolis sound by producing other bands outside of Prince’s range of influence. Prince knew that there was the potential for huge success for everyone attached to the upcoming Purple Rain project, and the idea of diluting his sound may have bothered him, so he decided to lay down the law. Prince, Jesse Johnson, Morris, Terry Lewis and Jimmy Jam were present for the 7pm meeting. It was at this gathering that Jimmy and Terry were fired. There are two very different accounts of what went down. “I’m playing the bad guy, but I didn’t fire Jimmy and Terry,’ Prince told Rolling Stone in 1985. ‘Morris asked me what I would do in his situation. You got to remember, it was his band.” But according to Jesse, “we (Morris and Jesse) didn’t tell them shit. We just sat there and listened to Prince. The Time was Prince’s thing, all those groups were Prince’s groups.” Morris recently agreed. “That was Prince's doing… there wasn't much to say, because basically, we were part of his production company. He was calling the shots. So it was just something that I kind of had to live with, regardless of how I felt.” In 1996, Jimmy Jam commented publicly on this when during a benefit show, he said ‘(Prince) just took his 6 inch pumps and kicked us out the door.” He would also later reflect that ‘we were working on outside projects and I think that made Prince and every one else upset. Maybe they were all worried that we would give away the Time sound. But if you listen to our stuff today, I don’t think it’s even remotely close. There’s certain instrumentation the Time uses that we won’t go near. We respect them too much.”

After the meeting, there was a brief break and starting at 10pm, the remainder of the recording session was spent on overdubs for “Chili Sauce” (which was still referred to as “Proposition 17” at this point) and wrapped at 6am the following day. Few knew it, but the firing of Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis was the beginning of the end for The Time.

‘When we started switching musicians,’ reflected Morris, ‘it wasn't my favorite band anymore, I wasn't happy from that day." According to Alan Leeds, “Morris was not happy with what Prince had done: “It’s my band, but I have no voice in this,’ Of course, the hypocrisy was, it never really was his band.”

-Based on an early unpublished draft of the book, PRINCE: The Studio Sessions.

so,Prince isn't totally accurate when he says that he didn't fire the Time.If he had truly left it up to Morris,we all know that Morris would NOT have fired Jimmy and Terry because,like he pointed out,once you start replacing musicians,you lose the band chemistry.

In any case,it's ridiculous that Prince didn't want his "employees" working with other artists.In retrospect,he should have encouraged these guys,and even used their songwriting/production talents to help out with the Paisley Park Records artists.

I was surprised no one else mentioned this yet, but there is an article on The Time in the back of the latest issue of Ebony Magazine - July 2012, starting on p. 124 with a great, rare photo of The Time. Morris, Jimmy & Terry tell it like it is in this article (more than I've ever seen in print before), including talking directly about the firing.

SoulAlive said:

In any case,it's ridiculous that Prince didn't want his "employees" working with other artists.In retrospect,he should have encouraged these guys,and even used their songwriting/production talents to help out with the Paisley Park Records artists.

They probably would've left anyway after Prince wouldn't let them write and produce.

Everything worked out for the best.

Paris9748430 said:

When Jimmy and Terry missed the show, Prince had Jerome miming while he played the bass. Lisa played the keyboards.

I never knew this, or I forgot after reading one of those books.

That firing whatever it was. Is the start of JJ&TL career. I feel Prince knew deep down that he had a monster & realize it was "Time" to let them go...They owe their whole career to Prince he did them a favor..

u gotta ask yourself was it a blessing in disguise or do u regret it? cuz all of em had sucess outside of the timeso they shoule be thankful cuz otherwise they might of never branched out 2 where they are now.

cbarnes3121 said:

u gotta ask yourself was it a blessing in disguise or do u regret it? cuz all of em had sucess outside of the timeso they shoule be thankful cuz otherwise they might of never branched out 2 where they are now.

Or they would have gone on to get even more popular as a band AND still do side projects. Every bit as likley.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

That firing whatever it was. Is the start of JJ&TL career. I feel Prince knew deep down that he had a monster & realize it was "Time" to let them go...They owe their whole career to Prince he did them a favor..

Back in the day,Prince had so many talented people around him,but he didn't always want these people to display those talents.After Jam and Lewis missed that gig,Prince should have scolded them (politely) and then said "Hey,let me check out some of the songs you guys got....let's use a few on the next Time album.And while you're at it,can you guys write a few songs for Jill Jones too?"

He had plans for the Paisley Park Records label and frankly,many of those albums could have used a few J&L songs.Imagine a hot groove like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" being given to Jill Jones? She would have been an instant star.

....

[Edited 7/10/12 5:24am]

Don't argue with destiny..Everyone in life finds their own paths....

Kcool

SoulAlive said:

Back in the day,Prince had so many talented people around him,but he didn't always want these people to display those talents.After Jam and Lewis missed that gig,Prince should have scolded them (politely) and then said "Hey,let me check out some of the songs you guys got....let's use a few on the next Time album.And while you're at it,can you guys write a few songs for Jill Jones too?"

He had plans for the Paisley Park Records label and frankly,many of those albums could have used a few J&L songs.Imagine a hot groove like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" being given to Jill Jones? She would have been an instant star.

....

[Edited 7/10/12 5:24am]

You are soooooo right on!

I was thinking about this just the other day...watching a Wendy and Lisa performance on youtube, wondering how awesome Paisley Park could have and should have been had it been used as a home for the entire Minneapolis "family" to branch out from.

Prince...so many missed opportunities...

Over controlling & ego-tripping can do that to ya

He didn't fire J&T due to them missing gigs. He heard the productions they have given to S.O.S. and told them that they won't come back because he already had replacements. So Prince did them a favor. I say kudos to him because without it, we wouldn't have had Flyte Tyme.

StonedImmaculate said:

SoulAlive said:

Back in the day,Prince had so many talented people around him,but he didn't always want these people to display those talents.After Jam and Lewis missed that gig,Prince should have scolded them (politely) and then said "Hey,let me check out some of the songs you guys got....let's use a few on the next Time album.And while you're at it,can you guys write a few songs for Jill Jones too?"

He had plans for the Paisley Park Records label and frankly,many of those albums could have used a few J&L songs.Imagine a hot groove like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" being given to Jill Jones? She would have been an instant star.

You are soooooo right on!

I was thinking about this just the other day...watching a Wendy and Lisa performance on youtube, wondering how awesome Paisley Park could have and should have been had it been used as a home for the entire Minneapolis "family" to branch out from.

Prince...so many missed opportunities...

it could have been his own Motown or Philadephia International.If you look at those labels,you'll find that,what really made them successful is,they had ALOT of talented people (songwriters,producers) all working together to create an amazing musical empire.It wasn't just one person doing everything.

They all had the talent...Prince just wanted all the glory.

Sad...

"shoulda, coulda, woulda"

Listen to y'all

It is what it is. Who knows what could've been had P/ associated paths been different. What is glaringly obvious, yet again, is that we only have 'facts' from one side of the fence.

In my books you have 2 'truths' in any given situation. 'The Truth' lies somewhere in between

SoulAlive said:

Back in the day,Prince had so many talented people around him,but he didn't always want these people to display those talents.After Jam and Lewis missed that gig,Prince should have scolded them (politely) and then said "Hey,let me check out some of the songs you guys got....let's use a few on the next Time album.And while you're at it,can you guys write a few songs for Jill Jones too?"

He had plans for the Paisley Park Records label and frankly,many of those albums could have used a few J&L songs.Imagine a hot groove like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" being given to Jill Jones? She would have been an instant star.

I only wonder though how much Warner would've invested in the projects of Prince's boutique, because promotion for an excellent debut album such as the one of Mazarati went close to nowhere unfortunately, despite 2 solid singles with official videos, their strong stage performances and Prince's promotional efforts during the premiere night of "Under The Cherry Moon". J&L's compositions possibly had more potential to reach a wider audience within the urban charts (and pop charts, with Janet, Human League, etc) compared to the funk-rock concept of Brownmark's proteges?...but still. Some of Sheila E's work on Paisley Park did well though: her "Romance 1600" album @ #12 on Billboard's R&B albums of 1985, and her "Hold Me" single @ #3 on Billboard's R&B singles of 1987. And wondering well how all the business with copyrights, publishing and royalties would've went. J&L were imo better off to receive all those royalties on their own, besides that there were some swapping arrangements: Mazarati exchanging "Kiss" for "100MPH", Andre Cymone got "The Dance Electric" for his previous work with Prince, etc...

[Edited 7/21/12 5:55am]

80spfantwp said: 'The Truth' lies somewhere in between