2elijah said:

I give them credit for releasing a decent album, but the test will be if they could present various types of music, other than the kind of sound, that don't become 'too familiar'. Variety is nice. The difference with Prince is that you can't label him in one category, because he plays a variety of music, so you never know what to 'expect' from him when he releases an album/cd. He also has changed his image dress-wise over the years. The O7 kept the same Princely image associated with 'The Time' that Prince apparently created, as though they were saving their extravagant suits from the 80s and took it out the closet, tried them on to see it they still fit, when "Condensate' was released.

If they show they could be successful without Prince, wonder if they would consider shedding the image that Prince created and made them famous for as ''The Time', because right now looking at their group pic as the 'O7', screams "I tried, but I can't let go of the Purple Magic'. Just saying, if they don't need the same name to succeed, then they don't need the same, type image to be successful. I mean even some snakes shed their old skin and grow a new one. I don't think the band members have said anything with malice, publically towards Prince, but if they should while portraying the same image/similar stage performances Prince displayed of them, as the former "Time' group, it would pretty much be a form of contradiction on their part. (Dont take that wrong, I still love the members of The Time). I'm just saying, it would be like telling someone you don't need them to succeed, but still wanting to hold on to just a little piece of them to make it. Just my two cents. (::Lawd I'm in trouble now.. )

[Edited 11/22/11 18:57pm]

I disagree. There are many GREAT R&B artists. Doing different styles of music does not make someone superior. Prince has been a jack of all trades but in my opinion, he has never been "the best" at any genre. You may see artists jumping from genre to genre as some sign of superiority but I don't. Versatility is cool but it doesn't reign supreme and it doesn't mean the work you are doing is great. A great artist in one genre (jazz, for instance) doesn't have to play other styles of music when they are superior at doing what they do. It doesn't mean that they CAN'T, it means they don't need to.

People keep saying that they hope this will "light a fire under Prince" - why do you think that is? That indicates that

a. there is some degree of dissatisfaction with his current work

b. there is some degree of enjoyment of The Time's new work (Jimmy say we can call them The Time, so I'mma call them The Time)

Without Prince's past line up, he's not going to make "classic" Prince records. He's got a bunch of scrubs in the band (even though Morris has been around for a while now). No offense to the players but they are not the players that made young Prince step his game up. They are not the cats that he vibed off of. They are not the members that influenced him to make the music he made back then.

That is the difference.

The Time = same fellas = same vibe

Prince = different crew = different vibe

Yeah, that shoots down the ridiculous theory that everybody that played for Prince were droids playing exactly what he wanted them to.

And dude - SUITS ARE NEVER OUT OF STYLE. Those aren't Prince suits. They are suits...and they damn sure ain't the same ones (at least the pants can't be)

2elijah said:

See you agree that if they started off fresh under a new name, as a group, then shed the image and stage performance style Prince created under the former 'Time' group, that they'd have more 'originality' reflecting the new name of their band, as the 'Original7ven'. They've already written/released their own music, but their public image as a group, as well as their stage presence/performance still reflects and represents Prince's creation of 'The Time.'...

Prince didn't come up with what they did on stage - they did. They talk about how Prince would protest the dances they did and threaten them and Morris would still do what he wanted and the band followed.

And NO ONE CAN CREATE YOUR STAGE PRESENCE. Either you have it or you don't. No one can make that for you - only manipulate your image. The suits might have been his idea but the energy, antics and delivery was ALL THEM.

Lay off the kool-aid. They weren't robots. Musically, they were Prince's peers. That's why he helped them in the first place.

I recall Jimmy Jam saying how Prince drilled them into learning the dance steps and for all the band members. A significant part of what the time does is an extension of what Prince created as an outlet of a different songwriting style he had/has. The way he wrote for them was specific in that it was meant to be a more pimp style than what he was doing on his own records. The Girlsongs tracks were another extension(albeit a feminine one). I believe everyone contributed in some degree with their talent and skill. Prince can write it and tell you how to play it/sing it but you still have to be able to do that for yourself. As for the whole 'versus' argument, Prince has nothing to worry about from the O7. If the current pace of their promotion and stage shows doesn't pick up/improve then they'll render themselves irrelevant soon enough. I hope they get it together for the sake of the fans and push this CD and the new music because that will inspire them to make more of it. Right now they don't seem terribly concerned with it.

PDogz said:

panther514 said:

Condensate is a pretty solid effort..but I don't think it strikes fear in the purple one... the solo project from Jesse is the one that he should be losing sleep over. Verbal Penetration vols 1&2 blows anything P has done in the last 30 yrs completely out of the water! P doesn't have a cd that he has done in the last 30 that even comes close.

To me, that's simply comparing apples to oranges, and I see little value in doing that. I certainly respect your opinion, but opinions are subjective, and we're all entitled to our very own. Nevertheless, opinions are not absolute truths.

One of the main things I love about Prince that I think drives many people nuts is that with each of his albums, particularly in recent years, he seems more interested in covering vast territory than he is with coming up with a commercially consistent, radio-friendly, mega-hit. Generally, his albums are a mix of different vibes and emotions that take you around the world three times and back, lol. Regardless, when he does release an album that has more of a focused sound, it's usually of a genre that many people have trouble appreciating, like with "N.E.W.S.", "The Rainbow Children", "Xpectation" or even "Kamasutra". All excellent productions, just some really, really different music.

I think most people would agree that Prince certainly has the talent and ability to blow the doors off a solid Pop release, if that's what he wanted to do. So it's his focus on creating new and unusual music, that comes in from so many different influences, that I find most appealing about him, and in the long run what I feel will be the mark, his legacy, that will be left behind on the music industry.

When I'm into an artist, any artist (...painter, sculptor, designer, musician, whatever...), I don't need them to do what I want them to do, or what I feel will compete with something someone else has done, I need them to do what they feel. And I can always count on Prince doing exactly that, in the most excellent manner.

add ona to what u mentioned and u hit it out of the park. and i think that's what a lot of people want from prince 2 come up with a one dimensional genre effort. whether it be a full rock album which i feel he's done twice already but never a full out funk workout album. if he did that then i feel it would be a big treat 2 his funk fans. hence what the O7 has done with condensate fills that need 4 the funk. but even as i say that, damn condensate is the BOMB!

i feel that in prince's latest album efforts, it's left me scratching my head saying where is he going and i only say this about 2 albums in particular, planet earth and 20ten. plus his decisions on singles have been terrible since emancipation as lead products.

i would have 2 add that prince's promotion skills LACK BIG TIME

2elijah said:

funkatopia said: Definitely all of you are right on the fact that if the Time really wanted to step out on their own, they would shed the image that Prince created to try and distinguish themselves. The truth is that they wouldn't have been any bigger than DaKrash had it not been for Prince's involvement in their molding. I can't think of any bands that had that sound in 80's that Prince didn't have a 1st or 2nd degrees of involvement with, so I have to agree with that statement. I think they know that and appreciate that, but you can't help but get the vibe that they feel like he was holding them back. That was the point of that post was to get this out there. Loving the feedback.

See you agree that if they started off fresh under a new name, as a group, then shed the image and stage performance style Prince created under the former 'Time' group, that they'd have more 'originality' reflecting the new name of their band, as the 'Original7ven'. They've already written/released their own music, but their public image as a group, as well as their stage presence/performance still reflects and represents Prince's creation of 'The Time.' The vids I've seen of their recent, performances so far, pretty much look like they just stepped off the Purple Rain movie set from 1984 into 2011. Don't get me wrong, they're all very talented musicians/artists that I appreciate, which is why I'm still going to buy their new cd. As far as I'm concerned Jesse could just stand on stage, all by himself looking pretty and that would be just fine with me (j/k). No but seriously, as a new group with a new name, releasing their own music, stating they're Prince-free business and music-wise, then let's see if down the road, they will shed Prince's creation of their image/stage presence/performance style, of the original/former 'Time' group, and display 'originality' to fit the new name of their group. Because right now it seems they're still holding on to an image Prince created for them, which they don't seem to be ready to let go of--like an older adult afraid to leave their parent's nest to start a life of their own, and still want their parents to help them or that as a group they don't have the strong confidence to present a 'new look' for their band. This of course is constructive criticism, not bashing them, as like I said I'm still buying their album. I don't know, I just can't see how the 'Original7ven' can call themselves 'free' (and 'original') from the image/stage presence/performance style that Prince created for them, and yet the 'Original7ven', under their new name, still present themselves in that very same image/stage presence/performance style Prince created for them back in the day..and they're benefiting from that image too. Just sayin'. [Edited 11/22/11 18:39pm]

a simple two questions if i may ..is the same as Prince or different? and what image should the Original 7ven have besides wearing suits on stage?

BlaqueKnight said:

2elijah said:

See you agree that if they started off fresh under a new name, as a group, then shed the image and stage performance style Prince created under the former 'Time' group, that they'd have more 'originality' reflecting the new name of their band, as the 'Original7ven'. They've already written/released their own music, but their public image as a group, as well as their stage presence/performance still reflects and represents Prince's creation of 'The Time.'...

Prince didn't come up with what they did on stage - they did. They talk about how Prince would protest the dances they did and threaten them and Morris would still do what he wanted and the band followed.

And NO ONE CAN CREATE YOUR STAGE PRESENCE. Either you have it or you don't. No one can make that for you - only manipulate your image. The suits might have been his idea but the energy, antics and delivery was ALL THEM.

Lay off the kool-aid. They weren't robots. Musically, they were Prince's peers. That's why he helped them in the first place.

didn't Morris Day himself say in the documentary that Prince "masterminded" the whole concept of the Time and was the one who had them rehearsing for long hours? I say this to say he may not have come up with the dance steps exactly but the work ethics he drilled into them resulted in them given Prince a run for his money on stage. Idk, imo I think that has something to do with it.

[Edited 11/23/11 7:54am]

BlaqueKnight said:

2elijah said:

I give them credit for releasing a decent album, but the test will be if they could present various types of music, other than the kind of sound, that don't become 'too familiar'. Variety is nice. The difference with Prince is that you can't label him in one category, because he plays a variety of music, so you never know what to 'expect' from him when he releases an album/cd. He also has changed his image dress-wise over the years. The O7 kept the same Princely image associated with 'The Time' that Prince apparently created, as though they were saving their extravagant suits from the 80s and took it out the closet, tried them on to see it they still fit, when "Condensate' was released.

If they show they could be successful without Prince, wonder if they would consider shedding the image that Prince created and made them famous for as ''The Time', because right now looking at their group pic as the 'O7', screams "I tried, but I can't let go of the Purple Magic'. Just saying, if they don't need the same name to succeed, then they don't need the same, type image to be successful. I mean even some snakes shed their old skin and grow a new one. I don't think the band members have said anything with malice, publically towards Prince, but if they should while portraying the same image/similar stage performances Prince displayed of them, as the former "Time' group, it would pretty much be a form of contradiction on their part. (Dont take that wrong, I still love the members of The Time). I'm just saying, it would be like telling someone you don't need them to succeed, but still wanting to hold on to just a little piece of them to make it. Just my two cents. (::Lawd I'm in trouble now.. )

[Edited 11/22/11 18:57pm]

I disagree. There are many GREAT R&B artists. Doing different styles of music does not make someone superior. Prince has been a jack of all trades but in my opinion, he has never been "the best" at any genre. You may see artists jumping from genre to genre as some sign of superiority but I don't. Versatility is cool but it doesn't reign supreme and it doesn't mean the work you are doing is great. A great artist in one genre (jazz, for instance) doesn't have to play other styles of music when they are superior at doing what they do. It doesn't mean that they CAN'T, it means they don't need to.

People keep saying that they hope this will "light a fire under Prince" - why do you think that is? That indicates that

a. there is some degree of dissatisfaction with his current work

b. there is some degree of enjoyment of The Time's new work (Jimmy say we can call them The Time, so I'mma call them The Time)

Without Prince's past line up, he's not going to make "classic" Prince records. He's got a bunch of scrubs in the band (even though Morris has been around for a while now). No offense to the players but they are not the players that made young Prince step his game up. They are not the cats that he vibed off of. They are not the members that influenced him to make the music he made back then.

That is the difference.

The Time = same fellas = same vibe

Prince = different crew = different vibe

Yeah, that shoots down the ridiculous theory that everybody that played for Prince were droids playing exactly what he wanted them to.

And dude - SUITS ARE NEVER OUT OF STYLE. Those aren't Prince suits. They are suits...and they damn sure ain't the same ones (at least the pants can't be)

word! 2 me prince's last great band was the ONA tour ..i truly cannot see his current band playing a version of rave un2 the joy fantastic like on small club

2elijah said:

Seriously guys, I wish someone could actually explain how anyone could believe, one album from the now Original 7 has outdone Prince's entire, 30-year plus musiic career,and the awards he's won for his music over that period time? Don't know what some folks are smoking but whatever it is please don't pass it around.

The original members of 'The Time' including the music/image was an extension of Prince. So if that's the case, then Prince has outdone himself and won. Don't get me wrong, I like the 'O7' and think they deserve much credit for going out on their own, under a different name and managing to succeed in creating a nice album. Let's face it though, agree or disagree, they were a copy and an extension of Prince's creation music/and the creation of another side of Prince, as he presented them to us, with their stage appearance/performances--when they were called 'The Time', and quite frankly, as the 'Original7ven', image-wise, today they still present that very, same image Prince created. :: Running as fast as I can from bricks being thrown for having the audacity to say such a thing....how dare me. ::

[Edited 11/21/11 13:33pm]

Whoever said O7's album has completely outdone Prince's entire discography? I don't think I've seen those posts. I think the OP maybe exaggerating a little there. At least, I hope so.

datdude said:

PUH-leez. Condensate is barely above average. cohesive, yes, but as has been said, if P wrote that ish, in all its (juvenile at 50) "Morris Day" schtick, he'd get thrashed on here and elsewhere. Glad to see the guy's back, love em! And Prince's past treatment of The Time nothwithstanding, he has nothing to fear. Now if they evolve, keep recording and come completely out of left field sonically, and especially topically, REPOST this thread then.

How is what Morris is saying on this album "juvenille"? He (and the rest of the band) just sounds like he's having FUN! At least he's not sounding uptight and like he's got a stick up his ass like Mr. Nelson sounds these days.

BlaqueKnight said:

2elijah said:

I give them credit for releasing a decent album, but the test will be if they could present various types of music, other than the kind of sound, that don't become 'too familiar'. Variety is nice. The difference with Prince is that you can't label him in one category, because he plays a variety of music, so you never know what to 'expect' from him when he releases an album/cd. He also has changed his image dress-wise over the years. The O7 kept the same Princely image associated with 'The Time' that Prince apparently created, as though they were saving their extravagant suits from the 80s and took it out the closet, tried them on to see it they still fit, when "Condensate' was released.

If they show they could be successful without Prince, wonder if they would consider shedding the image that Prince created and made them famous for as ''The Time', because right now looking at their group pic as the 'O7', screams "I tried, but I can't let go of the Purple Magic'. Just saying, if they don't need the same name to succeed, then they don't need the same, type image to be successful. I mean even some snakes shed their old skin and grow a new one. I don't think the band members have said anything with malice, publically towards Prince, but if they should while portraying the same image/similar stage performances Prince displayed of them, as the former "Time' group, it would pretty much be a form of contradiction on their part. (Dont take that wrong, I still love the members of The Time). I'm just saying, it would be like telling someone you don't need them to succeed, but still wanting to hold on to just a little piece of them to make it. Just my two cents. (::Lawd I'm in trouble now.. )

[Edited 11/22/11 18:57pm]

I disagree. There are many GREAT R&B artists. Doing different styles of music does not make someone superior. Prince has been a jack of all trades but in my opinion, he has never been "the best" at any genre. You may see artists jumping from genre to genre as some sign of superiority but I don't. Versatility is cool but it doesn't reign supreme and it doesn't mean the work you are doing is great. A great artist in one genre (jazz, for instance) doesn't have to play other styles of music when they are superior at doing what they do. It doesn't mean that they CAN'T, it means they don't need to.

People keep saying that they hope this will "light a fire under Prince" - why do you think that is? That indicates that

a. there is some degree of dissatisfaction with his current work

b. there is some degree of enjoyment of The Time's new work (Jimmy say we can call them The Time, so I'mma call them The Time)

Without Prince's past line up, he's not going to make "classic" Prince records. He's got a bunch of scrubs in the band (even though Morris has been around for a while now). No offense to the players but they are not the players that made young Prince step his game up. They are not the cats that he vibed off of. They are not the members that influenced him to make the music he made back then.

That is the difference.

The Time = same fellas = same vibe

Prince = different crew = different vibe

Yeah, that shoots down the ridiculous theory that everybody that played for Prince were droids playing exactly what he wanted them to.

BK, I have no problem with you disagreeing but it doesn't change my opinion, and what's with the 'superiority' crap? Never said a musician showing some form of versatility in their music makes them superior or above all other musicians/artists. Matter of fact why you even assume that? Any musician being versatile with their music, just shows they made the personal choice to not stay in one genre of music and can go outside the box. Secondly, you speak of his current band members like it is required they should be like the band members Prince had in the past. Why? Who says they have to be?

Referencing your points "A" and "B"

BlaqueKnight said :

a. there is some degree of dissatisfaction with his current work

2elijah said:

A: I'm sure there was some dissatisfaction in Prince's music by some fans back in the day as well, so why would today be any different or unusual today that there may be some tracks they may not like? No musician can please everybody all the time at the same scale during different time periods. The thing is, Prince has a 30-year plus catalog, so he could pull the tricks out of the box at anytime, plus continue to play the classics in different versions (i.e. like the slowed-down version of LRC) and also current ones like '3121' where he played various versions of that track. Also I didn't say the Original7ven couldn't play or have to play different styles of music, I said down the road I'd like to ee if they can present a different style of music unfamilliar to their familiar sound, doesn't mean they have to.

BlaqueKnight said:

b: there is some degree of enjoyment of The Time's new work (Jimmy say we can call them The Time, so I'mma call them The Time)

2elijah said:

B: Well from the reactions of diehard/casual Time fans, it's not surprising they appreciate the O7s new work, but let's see how many new fans they can pull in at a large scale, with that new work. Prince already has a massive fan base--no competition, so what's for him to fear, as some fans speculate or assume? You can't compare an artist who has a 30-year plus career, a worldwide fanbase, to one of his spinoff groups he created who are now on their own, releasing their new music, under a new name, but sporting the same image Prince created, and think they can ever be a 'threat' or 'competition' to him. Even if Prince gave a show at a 20, 000 seat arena and only filled 15,000, the Time is still not a threat to his music career. When the O7 can fill an arena at the same scale as Prince can, without Prince on the bill, then come talk to me about it. Until then Prince still reigns as "Prince' of his own 30-yaar plus music career as a musician/performer. This doesn;t mean I drink goblets of Purple Koolaid for giving him credit where its due.

BlaqueKnight said:

That is the difference

The Time = same fellas = same vibe

2elijah said: ^Yes that is the difference - They're the same group Prince created, doing the same vibe under a new band name. Only change is their name.

BlaqueKnight said:

Prince = different crew = different vibe

2elijah said: ^Yes, that's the difference. Prince steps out of the box, takes risks with his music by not creating/releasing music of the same vibe, and not afraid of the criticism he'll receive for it. Also doesn't seem to be afraid or threatened musically, by working with various musicians and adding/changing his band members over the years, and challenging their music skills/ talents.

BlaqueKnight said:

And dude - SUITS ARE NEVER OUT OF STYLE. Those aren't Prince suits. They are suits...and they damn sure ain't the same ones (at least the pants can't be)

2elijah said:^ First off, I'm not a dude, so don't assume. Sure suits never go out of style, but certain 'suit styles' do. Okay, I will admit the guys do look good in their suits. Anyway, I enjoyed the conversation, even if we may not have agreed on some points.

[Edited 11/23/11 15:20pm]

novabrkr said:

What type of twisted satisfaction do people get from writing this type of bullshit?

Prince wrote most of the songs and played most of the instruments on each of the three The Time albums that the band is known for. They weren't really anything else than a group of live musicians that Prince used as an opening act for his tours and he used Morris Day as a vocalist for some of his more straightforward funk number when he was exploring different styles of music on his own records.

Now that's some twisted bullshit right there. You READ that in some Prince biography, right?

Fact is the songs were written by Prince and Morris, around an exaggerated version of Morris Day, many of which Prince ended up using on his own album. Without Morris the songs don't exist as we know them. Prince often times tries to channel Morris's personality in the studio (and yes on stage as well). Morris Day, through his drumming, humorous personality and general attitude toward life, definitely inspires Prince. Prince has admitted Morris's importance to his creative process, time and time again. Even today, 30 years after the fact, Prince is still releasing Morris Day inspired tracks. So when it comes to Morris Day, give that man his respect.

L4OATheOriginal said:

2elijah said:

See you agree that if they started off fresh under a new name, as a group, then shed the image and stage performance style Prince created under the former 'Time' group, that they'd have more 'originality' reflecting the new name of their band, as the 'Original7ven'. They've already written/released their own music, but their public image as a group, as well as their stage presence/performance still reflects and represents Prince's creation of 'The Time.' The vids I've seen of their recent, performances so far, pretty much look like they just stepped off the Purple Rain movie set from 1984 into 2011. Don't get me wrong, they're all very talented musicians/artists that I appreciate, which is why I'm still going to buy their new cd. As far as I'm concerned Jesse could just stand on stage, all by himself looking pretty and that would be just fine with me (j/k). No but seriously, as a new group with a new name, releasing their own music, stating they're Prince-free business and music-wise, then let's see if down the road, they will shed Prince's creation of their image/stage presence/performance style, of the original/former 'Time' group, and display 'originality' to fit the new name of their group. Because right now it seems they're still holding on to an image Prince created for them, which they don't seem to be ready to let go of--like an older adult afraid to leave their parent's nest to start a life of their own, and still want their parents to help them or that as a group they don't have the strong confidence to present a 'new look' for their band. This of course is constructive criticism, not bashing them, as like I said I'm still buying their album. I don't know, I just can't see how the 'Original7ven' can call themselves 'free' (and 'original') from the image/stage presence/performance style that Prince created for them, and yet the 'Original7ven', under their new name, still present themselves in that very same image/stage presence/performance style Prince created for them back in the day..and they're benefiting from that image too. Just sayin'. [Edited 11/22/11 18:39pm]

a simple two questions if i may ..is the same as Prince or different? and what image should the Original 7ven have besides wearing suits on stage?

Yes you may. Prince plays various styles of music/doesn't have the same stage presence as in how he presents himself on stage during his shows/stage performances.

When you see the Time live, you see the same character plays - Jerome handing Morris the mirror; Morris sliding his hand across the top of his hair to the back to see if the gel is holding his hair in place;Morris checking if his clothes are right; Jerome and Morris doing that familiar dance step where they hold both hands in front their stomachs and take their feet and jump right to left in unison- you know the one L4, stop acting like you don't know. I'm surprised Jerome doesn't hand Morris a hanky to wipe his nose or sweat off his face or did I miss that over the years.

Prince presents a different stage performance and stage presence during his live shows. You don't know what he's going to come up with. Different show each time. He's made many changes over the years with band members and has always performed various styles of music Some of you complain aobut Prince singing some of the same classics, yet the Time, over the years sung the same songs, as they had a small catalogue under their former name. I've seen clips of the 07 and it's the same presentation as when they were the former Time.

You ask how should they change their image? That's something they have to come up with on their own creatively, but for now they're technically still the "Time' under the 'O7' title, with the same stage presence as the 'Time'. Again, I respect all of the Time members, they're part of Prince's music history, and regardless of my opinion of them..... yes I will buy the O7's album this weekend, just to show my support and appreciation for them as musicians/artists. Geezus... you guys are working me overtime on this thread.

[Edited 11/23/11 9:29am]

2elijah said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

a simple two questions if i may ..is the same as Prince or different? and what image should the Original 7ven have besides wearing suits on stage?

Yes you may. Prince plays various styles of music/doesn't have the same stage presence as in how he presents himself on stage during his shows/stage performances.

When you see the Time live, you see the same character plays - Jerome handing Morris the mirror; Morris sliding his hand across the top of his hair to the back to see if the gel is holding his hair in place;Morris checking if his clothes are right; Jerome and Morris doing that familiar dance step where they hold both hands in front their stomachs and take their feet and jump right to left in unison- you know the one L4, stop acting like you don't know. I'm surprised Jerome doesn't hand Morris a hanky to wipe his nose or sweat off his face or did I miss that over the years.

Prince presents a different stage performance and stage presence during his live shows. You don't know what he's going to come up with. Different show each time. He's made many changes over the years with band members and has always performed various styles of music Some of you complain aobut Prince singing some of the same classics, yet the Time, over the years sung the same songs, as they had a small catalogue under their former name. I've seen clips of the 07 and it's the same presentation as when they were the former Time.

You ask how should they change their image? That's something they have to come up with on their own creatively, but for now they're technically still the "Time' under the 'O7' title, with the same stage presence as the 'Time'. Again, I respect all of the Time members, they're part of Prince's music history, and regardless of my opinion of them..... yes I will buy the O7's album this weekend, just to show my support and appreciation for them as musicians/artists. Geezus... you guys are working me overtime on this thread.

[Edited 11/23/11 9:29am]

okay in this sense what ur saying about the time can also apply 2 prince's shows "can i play my guitar?" "i've got so many hits" stops the song teasing that he can't play the song and tthe crowd goes wild etc ..it's the same spiel as well. as 4 catalouge, of course prince's is more diverse than the time but RARELY in the past 15 years will prince stick 2 his guns or yesteryear and focus a show around his latest material. the time, u can't expect that just based on the limited material they have 2 choose from. should they now start doing cover versions of prince's songs since he's been doing cool, the bird, jungle love, the stick, 777-9311? i sometimes think prince does these songs live now 2 say "hey i wrote this!" and i feel like saying "alright cool.. do u want a cookie now?"

as 4 the time doing signature moves well i will equate it on a level of a james brown show where u know the cape has got 2 come and put it over his shoulders ya know what i'm getting at? i'm not trying 2 start a fight ya know but i just had 2 ask ..and also ..i'm adding a fried turkey to the skittles u owe me!

L4OATheOriginal said:

2elijah said:

Yes you may. Prince plays various styles of music/doesn't have the same stage presence as in how he presents himself on stage during his shows/stage performances.

When you see the Time live, you see the same character plays - Jerome handing Morris the mirror; Morris sliding his hand across the top of his hair to the back to see if the gel is holding his hair in place;Morris checking if his clothes are right; Jerome and Morris doing that familiar dance step where they hold both hands in front their stomachs and take their feet and jump right to left in unison- you know the one L4, stop acting like you don't know. I'm surprised Jerome doesn't hand Morris a hanky to wipe his nose or sweat off his face or did I miss that over the years.

Prince presents a different stage performance and stage presence during his live shows. You don't know what he's going to come up with. Different show each time. He's made many changes over the years with band members and has always performed various styles of music Some of you complain aobut Prince singing some of the same classics, yet the Time, over the years sung the same songs, as they had a small catalogue under their former name. I've seen clips of the 07 and it's the same presentation as when they were the former Time.

You ask how should they change their image? That's something they have to come up with on their own creatively, but for now they're technically still the "Time' under the 'O7' title, with the same stage presence as the 'Time'. Again, I respect all of the Time members, they're part of Prince's music history, and regardless of my opinion of them..... yes I will buy the O7's album this weekend, just to show my support and appreciation for them as musicians/artists. Geezus... you guys are working me overtime on this thread.

[Edited 11/23/11 9:29am]

okay in this sense what ur saying about the time can also apply 2 prince's shows "can i play my guitar?" "i've got so many hits" stops the song teasing that he can't play the song and tthe crowd goes wild etc ..it's the same spiel as well. as 4 catalouge, of course prince's is more diverse than the time but RARELY in the past 15 years will prince stick 2 his guns or yesteryear and focus a show around his latest material. the time, u can't expect that just based on the limited material they have 2 choose from. should they now start doing cover versions of prince's songs since he's been doing cool, the bird, jungle love, the stick, 777-9311? i sometimes think prince does these songs live now 2 say "hey i wrote this!" and i feel like saying "alright cool.. do u want a cookie now?"

as 4 the time doing signature moves well i will equate it on a level of a james brown show where u know the cape has got 2 come and put it over his shoulders ya know what i'm getting at? i'm not trying 2 start a fight ya know but i just had 2 ask ..and also ..i'm adding a fried turkey to the skittles u owe me!

So far the O7 has played only one new song from the most recent concerts. they have an entire CD with killer hits and yet they only play one, (correct me if I'm wrong). yes its too soon to tell but still (frankly i dont' care but just for arguments sake). and Prince has played his new materials during the ONA tour which was in 2002, 3121 tours in 2006 and a few from the Welcome to America tour. he does what any artist does normally, play a few new hits and his well known hits. the only thing I wish Prince would not do is play covers.

I get a double standard sense here. Its okay for O7 to do the same show over and over, but if Prince does the same show, with the same song over and over then its a problem.

[Edited 11/23/11 10:16am]

I just hope this album plus Fdeluxe's Gaslight puts him into competition mode and he tries to outdo them again and come up with something stellar...however....they are a hard act to follow though....great albums.

[Edited 11/23/11 10:11am]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

I just hope this album plus Fdeluxe's Gaslight puts him into competition mode and he tries to outdo them....they are a hard act to follow though....great albums.

I disagree with you on FDeluxe's Gaslight. That album sucks.

^ Listen to it more then....it grows on you...the more I listen the more genius it is...listen to all those harmonies and melodies...its been since the mid 80s since P came up with something so musically complex and diverse...

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Listen to it more then....it grows on you...the more I listen the more genius it is...listen to all those harmonies and melodies...its been since the mid 80s since P came up with something so musically complex and diverse...

I've listened to it two times in full. the third time I couldn't take it anymore halfway thru. i like eric leed's work on it but the songs are so bland gosh. and I disagree with you. I feel the Rainbow Children and LotusFlowr are great cd's when it comes to musical arrangements.

wonder505 said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

okay in this sense what ur saying about the time can also apply 2 prince's shows "can i play my guitar?" "i've got so many hits" stops the song teasing that he can't play the song and tthe crowd goes wild etc ..it's the same spiel as well. as 4 catalouge, of course prince's is more diverse than the time but RARELY in the past 15 years will prince stick 2 his guns or yesteryear and focus a show around his latest material. the time, u can't expect that just based on the limited material they have 2 choose from. should they now start doing cover versions of prince's songs since he's been doing cool, the bird, jungle love, the stick, 777-9311? i sometimes think prince does these songs live now 2 say "hey i wrote this!" and i feel like saying "alright cool.. do u want a cookie now?"

as 4 the time doing signature moves well i will equate it on a level of a james brown show where u know the cape has got 2 come and put it over his shoulders ya know what i'm getting at? i'm not trying 2 start a fight ya know but i just had 2 ask ..and also ..i'm adding a fried turkey to the skittles u owe me!

So far the O7 has played only one new song from the most recent concerts. they have an entire CD with killer hits and yet they only play one, (correct me if I'm wrong). yes its too soon to tell but still (frankly i dont' care but just for arguments sake). and Prince has played his new materials during the ONA tour which was in 2002, 3121 tours in 2006 and a few from the Welcome to America tour. he does what any artist does normally, play a few new hits and his well known hits. the only thing I wish Prince would not do is play covers.

I get a double standard sense here. Its okay for O7 to do the same show over and over, but if Prince does the same show, with the same song over and over then its a problem.

[Edited 11/23/11 10:16am]

(Bolded statement) Hold the press! Wonder505, exactly! How is it that I see some of the same orgers whining about Prince singing many of his popular classics at his shows, yet the Time (now 07) have sung the same songs since Prince's creation of them as a group? How is it "okay" for the O7 (f/k/a The Time), but not okay for Prince? Definitely a double-standard here.

wonder505 said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

okay in this sense what ur saying about the time can also apply 2 prince's shows "can i play my guitar?" "i've got so many hits" stops the song teasing that he can't play the song and tthe crowd goes wild etc ..it's the same spiel as well. as 4 catalouge, of course prince's is more diverse than the time but RARELY in the past 15 years will prince stick 2 his guns or yesteryear and focus a show around his latest material. the time, u can't expect that just based on the limited material they have 2 choose from. should they now start doing cover versions of prince's songs since he's been doing cool, the bird, jungle love, the stick, 777-9311? i sometimes think prince does these songs live now 2 say "hey i wrote this!" and i feel like saying "alright cool.. do u want a cookie now?"

as 4 the time doing signature moves well i will equate it on a level of a james brown show where u know the cape has got 2 come and put it over his shoulders ya know what i'm getting at? i'm not trying 2 start a fight ya know but i just had 2 ask ..and also ..i'm adding a fried turkey to the skittles u owe me!

So far the O7 has played only one new song from the most recent concerts. they have an entire CD with killer hits and yet they only play one, (correct me if I'm wrong). yes its too soon to tell but still (frankly i dont' care but just for arguments sake). and Prince has played his new materials during the ONA tour which was in 2002, 3121 tours in 2006 and a few from the Welcome to America tour. he does what any artist does normally, play a few new hits and his well known hits. the only thing I wish Prince would not do is play covers.

I get a double standard sense here. Its okay for O7 to do the same show over and over, but if Prince does the same show, with the same song over and over then its a problem.

[Edited 11/23/11 10:16am]

That's what I feel as well. It doesn't help that Morris Day & The Time are touring now and doing basically the same songs as the O7 did in Minneapolis(minus #Trendin).

wonder505 said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

I just hope this album plus Fdeluxe's Gaslight puts him into competition mode and he tries to outdo them....they are a hard act to follow though....great albums.

I disagree with you on FDeluxe's Gaslight. That album sucks.

My friends are 50/50 on Gaslight so far but the live show kicks ass and they're playing over half of the new CD and a good chunk of the old one(they even threw in a snippet of Madhouse 6). They look like they're enjoying it and the fans are loving the face time they give them after the shows!

L4OATheOriginal said:

2elijah said:

Yes you may. Prince plays various styles of music/doesn't have the same stage presence as in how he presents himself on stage during his shows/stage performances.

When you see the Time live, you see the same character plays - Jerome handing Morris the mirror; Morris sliding his hand across the top of his hair to the back to see if the gel is holding his hair in place;Morris checking if his clothes are right; Jerome and Morris doing that familiar dance step where they hold both hands in front their stomachs and take their feet and jump right to left in unison- you know the one L4, stop acting like you don't know. I'm surprised Jerome doesn't hand Morris a hanky to wipe his nose or sweat off his face or did I miss that over the years.

Prince presents a different stage performance and stage presence during his live shows. You don't know what he's going to come up with. Different show each time. He's made many changes over the years with band members and has always performed various styles of music Some of you complain aobut Prince singing some of the same classics, yet the Time, over the years sung the same songs, as they had a small catalogue under their former name. I've seen clips of the 07 and it's the same presentation as when they were the former Time.

You ask how should they change their image? That's something they have to come up with on their own creatively, but for now they're technically still the "Time' under the 'O7' title, with the same stage presence as the 'Time'. Again, I respect all of the Time members, they're part of Prince's music history, and regardless of my opinion of them..... yes I will buy the O7's album this weekend, just to show my support and appreciation for them as musicians/artists. Geezus... you guys are working me overtime on this thread.

[Edited 11/23/11 9:29am]

okay in this sense what ur saying about the time can also apply 2 prince's shows "can i play my guitar?" "i've got so many hits" stops the song teasing that he can't play the song and tthe crowd goes wild etc ..it's the same spiel as well. as 4 catalouge, of course prince's is more diverse than the time but RARELY in the past 15 years will prince stick 2 his guns or yesteryear and focus a show around his latest material. the time, u can't expect that just based on the limited material they have 2 choose from. should they now start doing cover versions of prince's songs since he's been doing cool, the bird, jungle love, the stick, 777-9311? i sometimes think prince does these songs live now 2 say "hey i wrote this!" and i feel like saying "alright cool.. do u want a cookie now?"

as 4 the time doing signature moves well i will equate it on a level of a james brown show where u know the cape has got 2 come and put it over his shoulders ya know what i'm getting at? i'm not trying 2 start a fight ya know but i just had 2 ask ..and also ..i'm adding a fried turkey to the skittles u owe me!

Prince can tease and say he has so many hits because he does, and he can choose what to play, even if it's just a tease of one of his songs, leaving you to want more. He can also sing/perform the songs associated with the Time, because didn't he write or co-wrote the majority of the 'Time's' songs? Correct me if I'm wrong. He also mentioned in a past interview that he plays covers to pretty much remind folks of the real music by real musicians that dominated the 60s/70s/80s., and if any of those groups tried to put out music today, radio would ignore them because radio doesn't give a damn about real music anymore. It's all about getting sponsorhip money and playing what they 'think' is popular even if it all sounds repetitive or manufactured. I mean anyone can now get on youtube..do a five line song, repeat it 20 times with what they call music behind it and call it a hit, if it's catchy. What happened to hard work, competition and creativity?

I have to say I don't care for the current stuff on the radio, but I will listen to a station that plays the classics or pandora radio online. You have a generation for the past 15 years or so, coming up in the hip-hop/rap era, and not used to seeing 'live' musicians, I don't mean hip-hop acts jumping around the stage like rabbits, pretending that's real music. I mean 'real music with actual, skilled musicians' that knew what it was like musically to really compete with other musicians.

Now getting back to the group f/k/a 'The Time' they have to play their classics in full because they have a limited amount of songs, whereas Prince doesn't have to..that's the difference. I give the O7 credit for getting together and releasing music on their own without Prince, as they can't hang on to his coat tails forever. The detachment of 'The Time' name from them as a new group, forces them to go out and create their own music, yet being allowed to still play those classics their audience 'expects' to hear, which is probably why they sitll focus on playing those classic hits. Playing much of their new songs in one show will take time without including their classics, while drawing in new fans, so I could understand why they play very, little new songs from their current album. Besides, they still need people to buy their album, before letting them hear all of the new songs performed 'live' too soon.

Also, the majority of their fans are Prince fans, because that's where they developed their fan base from. Now what if they chose to just play only the new songs from "Condensate' and not one 'Time" classic at their show? I guarantee that some of their audience will not be happy if they don't play the 'classics' 'The Time' are known for. So I see them including many of their Prince-associated classics at all their shows.

Now as far as the Time's signature moves, sure those moves are cute and 'familiar' with them, but there's no way you can equate theirs to James Brown, because James Brown's whole persona was his own creation and he was very versatile iwth his performances.

Just to add...forget the fried Turkey... ..you'll have to settle for the Skittles.

[Edited 11/23/11 14:59pm]

wonder505 said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Listen to it more then....it grows on you...the more I listen the more genius it is...listen to all those harmonies and melodies...its been since the mid 80s since P came up with something so musically complex and diverse...

I've listened to it two times in full. the third time I couldn't take it anymore halfway thru. i like eric leed's work on it but the songs are so bland gosh. and I disagree with you. I feel the Rainbow Children and LotusFlowr are great cd's when it comes to musical arrangements.

Exactly, you've only heard it 2x.....with these kind of albums you can't expect to judge from only 2 plays...i wasn't sure about it at that level, I've now played it about 20x and I think its amazing....

Listen to the arrangements and melodies on The Vigil...esp. the beautiful piano ending...

Lover is the best love song for a while....

[Edited 11/23/11 12:21pm]

wonder505 said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Listen to it more then....it grows on you...the more I listen the more genius it is...listen to all those harmonies and melodies...its been since the mid 80s since P came up with something so musically complex and diverse...

I've listened to it two times in full. the third time I couldn't take it anymore halfway thru. i like eric leed's work on it but the songs are so bland gosh. and I disagree with you. I feel the Rainbow Children and LotusFlowr are great cd's when it comes to musical arrangements.

Please send me your Gaslight cd and I'll send you those peices of $%&^ Rainbow Children and Lotusflower. Those are TERRIBLE records with blah writing and melodies.

The only person who is a "threat" to Prince's career is .....Prince. And he's doiing a fine job of watering it down the last ten years. I can almost Gauran -TEE that the Original 7even and FDeluxe woulfd not release Purple and Gold or that Hot Summer mess. Or 20ten. But I guess that wasn't REALLY a release.

Zannaloaf said:

The only person who is a "threat" to Prince's career is .....Prince.

Zannaloaf said:

The only person who is a "threat" to Prince's career is .....Prince. And he's doiing a fine job of watering it down the last ten years. I can almost Gauran -TEE that the Original 7even and FDeluxe woulfd not release Purple and Gold or that Hot Summer mess. Or 20ten. But I guess that wasn't REALLY a release.

I can 'guarantee', not 'almost guarantee', that you would not have the oportunity to enjoy the group formerly known as 'The Family' or the group formerly known as 'The Time', with both their new names now, if it wasn't for Prince in the first place, so don't bite the hand that provided that for you....hmmkay? Okay..come on back.. so what you got?

2elijah said:

Zannaloaf said:

The only person who is a "threat" to Prince's career is .....Prince. And he's doiing a fine job of watering it down the last ten years. I can almost Gauran -TEE that the Original 7even and FDeluxe woulfd not release Purple and Gold or that Hot Summer mess. Or 20ten. But I guess that wasn't REALLY a release.

I can 'guarantee', not 'almost guarantee', that you would not have the oportunity to enjoy the group formerly known as 'The Family' or the group formerly known as 'The Time', with both their new names now, if it wasn't for Prince in the first place, so don't bite the hand that provided that for you....hmmkay? Okay..come on back.. so what you got?

What arguemnet are you having here and with whom? I could care less of Prince pulled them together one way or the other. I don't thank Berry Gordy for putting bands together when I am listening to them...whose music was often written and played by others rather than the band on the record cover. That hand did not provide EITHER of these two new albums. The people involved did. I know Prince was involved in those early albums...and I love the albums...and Prince's involvement because of it. I'm one of theose people who would have to hip others to the fact THAT Prince was all OVER those records! That has ZIP to do with what these other people put together ON THEIR OWN and how much better it is - imo- than what the genius bandmaker is putting out on his own in the last 10 years.

MajesticOne89 said:

asg said:

verbal penetration never even charted in the top 200 that means it didnt sell even sell 2k in its first week at least condensate charted at #58. jesse might be a good guitar player i always felt dez was much better.

[Edited 11/22/11 11:01am]

Well if we're going to start comparing good music based on album sales...by your logic all of MJs solo albums are better than Prince's, right?

exactly! album sales mean absolutely Nathan! With that argument Celine Dion would blow away P! WTF?!

PDogz said:

panther514 said:

Condensate is a pretty solid effort..but I don't think it strikes fear in the purple one... the solo project from Jesse is the one that he should be losing sleep over. Verbal Penetration vols 1&2 blows anything P has done in the last 30 yrs completely out of the water! P doesn't have a cd that he has done in the last 30 that even comes close.

To me, that's simply comparing apples to oranges, and I see little value in doing that. I certainly respect your opinion, but opinions are subjective, and we're all entitled to our very own. Nevertheless, opinions are not absolute truths.

One of the main things I love about Prince that I think drives many people nuts is that with each of his albums, particularly in recent years, he seems more interested in covering vast territory than he is with coming up with a commercially consistent, radio-friendly, mega-hit. Generally, his albums are a mix of different vibes and emotions that take you around the world three times and back, lol. Regardless, when he does release an album that has more of a focused sound, it's usually of a genre that many people have trouble appreciating, like with "N.E.W.S.", "The Rainbow Children", "Xpectation" or even "Kamasutra". All excellent productions, just some really, really different music.

I think most people would agree that Prince certainly has the talent and ability to blow the doors off a solid Pop release, if that's what he wanted to do. So it's his focus on creating new and unusual music, that comes in from so many different influences, that I find most appealing about him, and in the long run what I feel will be the mark, his legacy, that will be left behind on the music industry.

When I'm into an artist, any artist (...painter, sculptor, designer, musician, whatever...), I don't need them to do what I want them to do, or what I feel will compete with something someone else has done, I need them to do what they feel. And I can always count on Prince doing exactly that, in the most excellent manner.

Correct about opinions..but just as u were moved by several of his releases I was bored stiff by them..P is not only releasing music to please him..he has bills to pay also! He is def concerned about sales and having hits or he wouldnt have an ear on the mainstream..ie: his rapping attempts and attempts to revive his old sound recently. Verbal Penetration is everything he was lacking.