Just interested to know the reasons....they seemed to have a good career post Prince so I see they have talent so why did he fire them from The Time? Anyone know what the circumstances were?!

[Edited 8/24/11 14:21pm]

Yep. While still in The Time they were producing other people. I think the SOS Band was who they were working with and tehy got snowed in and missed a gig. Prince had to play bass offstage to cover for Lewis and he fired them for missing the gig. Short sited imo. He shulkd hve replaced them and hired them on as staff producers. Those cats could have been making $$ for him instead.

^ Wow he must have been seriously pissed off in order to fire them.

Jimmy and Terry had been writing and producing on the side since at least sometime in 1982 (if not 81). I'm sure P was aware of it, but didn't like it (I've read that P mentioned to them that he didn't like it, because he didn't want them to give away The Time's sound). While on a brief break from the 1999 tour (in early '83), they were working with the S.O.S. Band in Atlanta. Because of a snow storm, they missed their flight from Atlanta to San Antonio -- where the tour was scheduled to pick up again that night. P had to play Terry's bass lines from backstage, while Jerome (Terry's half-brother) mimed the bass playing on stage. I believe Fink or Lisa filled in for Jimmy from backstage as well. They were not fired at that point, but they were docked a serious amount of money (from what I've seen published, it was thousands -- they didn't make much in the band as it was). I believe P told Morris if it was his band he'd fire them. Jam & Lewis have stated that they showed up for Ice Cream Castles sessions after the band had been summoned by P (Summer '83?) -- I'd provide a video link to the interview, but I can't locate it on YT anymore. When they arrived at the studio, someone (lawyer, accountant?) told them they were no longer needed. Terry, apparently, got pretty pissed and tried to talk/reason with P, but nothing came of it. I think they mentioned that they continued to receive checks from P's production company for a while. They went back to producing (one of the tracks they had been working on with SOS became their first hit).

^ Thanks man for clarifying that, interesting....

-This is what I have from my Prince notes of the album 1999,

-1st, it is confirmed that there were many, many, many, many horrible fights.

-In October of 1983, Prince got into it with the 2 Time members.

-Now in my notes, it says that it was Jimmy Jamm and Terry Lewis THAT LEFT,

-they went with Mark Cadenas and Jerry Hubbard for the album On The Rise of,

-the S.O.S. Band, like that hit, "Just Be Good To Me."

-A year later, there was another album of that group called, "Just The Way You Like It."

-JJ and TL went to LA to help debut Klymmax with the album Girls Will Be Girls,

-Cherelle or Cheryl Lynn, then they opened up their own company of productions,

-that they, CURIOSLY named, Flyte Time Productions.

Shango said:

^-

-In my notes, it says,

-that Jesse Johnson and Jerome Benton were the last to leave the group,

MyJobIz2beCute said:

Jesse Johnson and Jerome Benton were the last to leave the group

How did Jerome leave? Mark & Jerry left with Jesse and became members of Jesse's band The Revue. The others that were left (Jerome, Jellybean, Paul) formed The Family. So Jerome never quit. Actually Jellybean (& Monte Moir) quit The Time when Jam & Lewis were fired, and they were asked to return. Jellybean was persuaded to return, but Monte declined and stayed with Jimmy & Terry. Flyte Tyme was the name of their high school band (Jimmy, Terry, Jellybean, and others). Cynthia Johnson was also in this group. Later she joined the band Lipps Inc, who are mostly known for the song Funkytown. So Jimmy, Terry, & Monte named their production company Flyte Tyme after their band. The only reason Morris returned was because he was under contract to do the Purple Rain movie. So he had to do the Ice Cream Castles album too. Soon as it wrapped up, he left for good. The original members reformed around 1987 to perform at a local Minneapolis award show. That's where the Donnie Simpson announcement at the beginning of the Pandemonium album comes from.

MyJobIz2beCute said:

Firing Jam and Lewis was a huge mistake.It ruined the band and things just weren't the same with the new members.Furthermore,Prince should have utilized the talents of Jam and Lewis as he built his Paisley Park Records empire.What a missed opportunity

For Jam and Lewis,it turned out to be a blessing in disguise.They were finally 'set free' to become the biggest R&B producers of the 80s.

SoulAlive said:

Firing Jam and Lewis was a huge mistake.It ruined the band and things just weren't the same with the new members.Furthermore,Prince should have utilized the talents of Jam and Lewis as he built his Paisley Park Records empire.What a missed opportunity

For Jam and Lewis,it turned out to be a blessing in disguise.They were finally 'set free' to become the biggest R&B producers of the 80s.

Well, they were fired in '83, and the PP label didn't really start to do much of anything until 3 years later, and it wasn't until 1987 that PP Studios opened. So, in all of that time, Jam/Lewis had their own thing going in spades, and there was no way they were going back under his employ, even if Prince asked.

SoulAlive said:

Firing Jam and Lewis was a huge mistake.It ruined the band and things just weren't the same with the new members.

The situation for The Time to stick together as a unity was already going downhill, as it was explained by Jesse at Donnie Simpson's special. They weren't allowed to make other dance moves or wear other clothes on stage than Prince had instructed them to, as the fear of being upstaged, and when they were much excited for performing as support act in some major cities, then it wasn't uncommon that they were scrapped off the bill. Prince certainly did let them know that they weren't that important as a contributing act for the TT-Tour, including having to play behind a curtain as backing band for Vanity 6. The bottom line for J&L was when The Time was scrapped off the bill again on a NYC show, which the band was really looking forward to. After they left, Morris was no where to find for a period of time.

SoulAlive said:

Furthermore,Prince should have utilized the talents of Jam and Lewis as he built his Paisley Park Records empire.What a missed opportunity

I'm not sure if that would've worked, or if they would've gotten much creativity freedom, publishing ownership, and otherwise your last quote...

SoulAlive said:

For Jam and Lewis,it turned out to be a blessing in disguise.They were finally 'set free' to become the biggest R&B producers of the 80s.

...might not have happened the way that it happened now. Then again it might've been successful, but a collabo such as Brownmark with Prince for the Mazarati project eventually stranded as well.

SoulAlive said:

Firing Jam and Lewis was a huge mistake.It ruined the band and things just weren't the same with the new members.Furthermore,Prince should have utilized the talents of Jam and Lewis as he built his Paisley Park Records empire.What a missed opportunity

For Jam and Lewis,it turned out to be a blessing in disguise.They were finally 'set free' to become the biggest R&B producers of the 80s.

Paisley Park with Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis and Prince as a producer team would have been unstoppable. They could have turned Paisley Park into one of the biggest labels ever. And then imagine what would´ve happened if Meshell N´Degocello, Jodeci and Toni Tony Tone would have signed their record deals with Paisley Park, as they originally intended.

Paisley Park could´ve been HUGE.

But we all know how the story went......

pzlyprk said:

I'm sure P was aware of it, but didn't like it (I've read that P mentioned to them that he didn't like it, because he didn't want them to give away The Time's sound).

My notes indicate Prince is an ass!! Especially since he was ripping off friends and band-mate's sounds from the very beginning.

I hope this helps clear up some of the story:

Monday, April 18, 1983 (Sunset Sound, Studio 2)

Prince was continuing the work on various tracks for The Time. As was common during the Ice Cream Castle sessions, several members of the band were present. Today, the session was scheduled to begin at 6pm, but was delayed for a band meeting between Prince and The Time. Prince had been upset for a while about Jimmy and Terry missing a gig and he felt that they were cashing in on the Minneapolis sound by producing other bands outside of Prince’s range of influence. Prince knew that there was the potential for huge success for everyone attached to the upcoming Purple Rain project, and the idea of diluting his sound may have bothered him, so he decided to lay down the law. Prince, Jesse Johnson, Morris, Terry Lewis and Jimmy Jam were present for the 7pm meeting. It was at this gathering that Jimmy and Terry were fired. There are two very different accounts of what went down. “I’m playing the bad guy, but I didn’t fire Jimmy and Terry,’ Prince told Rolling Stone in 1985. ‘Morris asked me what I would do in his situation. You got to remember, it was his band.” But according to Jesse, “we (Morris and Jesse) didn’t tell them shit. We just sat there and listened to Prince. The Time was Prince’s thing, all those groups were Prince’s groups.” Morris recently agreed. “That was Prince's doing… there wasn't much to say, because basically, we were part of his production company. He was calling the shots. So it was just something that I kind of had to live with, regardless of how I felt.” In 1996, Jimmy Jam commented publicly on this when during a benefit show, he said ‘(Prince) just took his 6 inch pumps and kicked us out the door.” He would also later reflect that ‘we were working on outside projects and I think that made Prince and every one else upset. Maybe they were all worried that we would give away the Time sound. But if you listen to our stuff today, I don’t think it’s even remotely close. There’s certain instrumentation the Time uses that we won’t go near. We respect them too much.”

After the meeting, there was a brief break and starting at 10pm, the remainder of the recording session was spent on overdubs for “Chili Sauce” (which was still referred to as “Proposition 17” at that point) and wrapped at 6am the following day. Few knew it, but the firing of Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis was the beginning of the end for The Time.

‘When we started switching musicians,’ reflected Morris, ‘it wasn't my favorite band anymore, I wasn't happy from that day." According to Alan Leeds, “Morris was not happy with what Prince had done: “It’s my band, but I have no voice in this,’ Of course, the hypocrisy was, it never really was his band.”

-Based on an early draft of the book, PRINCE: The Studio Sessions.

^ Yes this tallies with what Morris said in his recent interview that it was Prince's doing.

Thanks for posting - are you writing that book?!

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Yes this tallies with what Morris said in his recent interview that it was Prince's doing.

Thanks for posting - are you writing that book?!

Yes. I hope that there is an audience for it.

madhouseman said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Yes this tallies with what Morris said in his recent interview that it was Prince's doing.

Thanks for posting - are you writing that book?!

Yes. I hope that there is an audience for it.

That's great man, look forward to it, I for one will definately buy it.

Out of interest, are you planning to cover anything post 1996 as it seems there is like a black hole of info from what he was getting up to in that period? I guess though that's not the main era fans look at so that could explain the lack if info so far.

Are you anything to do with Madhouse music?

TheFreakerFantastic said:

madhouseman said:

Yes. I hope that there is an audience for it.

That's great man, look forward to it, I for one will definately buy it.

Out of interest, are you planning to cover anything post 1996 as it seems there is like a black hole of info from what he was getting up to in that period? I guess though that's not the main era fans look at so that could explain the lack if info so far.

Are you anything to do with Madhouse music?

Nothing to do with Madhouse music at all. I was originally going to put out a book of all of his studio sessions, but it got to be too big of a project, so I may just focus on a smaller period and come out with the book in stages. Perhaps starting with the 83/84 period for the first volume. That would cover about 150 different recording dates for Purple Rain, ATWIAD, The Time, The Family,Jill Jones, Apollonia 6 and others. I am working on it now, but again, I'm not sure about how big the audience is for something like that. We'll see. Thanx for the encouragment.

^ Good man, i admire anyone that tackles a biog of Prince because there is so much to discover and he's done so much. Where do you get most of the info from, do you have links with Uptown / many connections with the people involved with him? Are you US or UK based?

Right enough questions from me now lol

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Good man, i admire anyone that tackles a biog of Prince because there is so much to discover and he's done so much. Where do you get most of the info from, do you have links with Uptown / many connections with the people involved with him? Are you US or UK based?

Right enough questions from me now lol

I was a researcher for UPTOWN, The Vault, DMSR and POSSESSED among other projects. I am based in the US and get a lot of my information 1st hand from the studios, the musicians, the engineers, etc. I also use a lot of public comments from all of them.

Again, thanx for the props. I look forward to publishing something in the next year or so. I'm sure you'll hear about it when it is ready.

^ Thanks dude, its good to see there are people on here who actually know their stuff!

The best firing that could ever happen to anybody!

wonder505 said:

The best firing that could ever happen to anybody!

yup

wonder505 said:

The best firing that could ever happen to anybody!

You said a mouthful.

Considering the mishap with missing a gig, I thnk Prince was well within his rights to fire them. It worked out for both parties.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Just interested to know the reasons....they seemed to have a good career post Prince so I see they have talent so why did he fire them from The Time? Anyone know what the circumstances were?!

[Edited 8/24/11 14:21pm]

neither could accurately answer the following question asked by prince "how many miles do you physically have to walk to wear a hole in the sole of a pair of stacy adams shoes?"

any reasons leaning towards prince's paranoia re them working on outside projects are unfounded lies dreamed up by christian fundamentalists.

for your information to date no associated artist has been able to correctly answer prince's question. not even larry graham who once tried to get the answer by walking from LA to "the pimp of the year show" at the caesars palace las vegas. he got no further than peggy sue's diner on the I-15 freeway, 10 miles north of barstow. larry always has been a sucka for peggy sue's mickey mouse club sandwich (it's the way she oven bakes her turkey).

that as the old saying goes is showbusiness.

holding something together that is falling apart

runawayslave said:

Considering the mishap with missing a gig, I thnk Prince was well within his rights to fire them. It worked out for both parties.

I think firing them just for missing a gig was a little extreme,but like you said,it worked out for everyone.If Jam and Lewis had stayed in the Time,they would have never been given the freedom to create music of their own and work with other artists.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Just interested to know the reasons....they seemed to have a good career post Prince so I see they have talent so why did he fire them from The Time? Anyone know what the circumstances were?!

[Edited 8/24/11 14:21pm]

The simple reason is that they had there own thing going. That would have gotten them kicked out of most bands. Jay-Z would have cut them loose. Lil Wayne and Baby would have cut ties. I think Prince made a mistake in firing them, but I can't say I blame him for feeling like it was for the best at the time. He sure did miss out on a lot of hit records though.