Timmy84 said:

ufoclub said:

Seems like the failure had to do with no great singles coming out of the label outside of Prince's own albums. No product = failure.

I think it was that and a lot of other things. It added more to Prince's failure in trying to create a business that wasn't successful. He could've had an empire in the '80s if you think about, he had hits with other artists he either simply wrote (with others producing as was the case with the Bangles and Sinead O'Connor) or writing and producing (most of the acts that worked with him in Minneapolis), I think if he wasn't so in tune with HIS own music, maybe he could've cultivated on it but I'm realizing that even most of the songs he had for other people even within the Paisley Park label were mainly his records but with other artists singing it in the way he commanded it. Hardly no one he worked with literally was allowed to interpret unless you was a legend like Mavis Staples or Chaka Khan or even Larry Graham. Most of the others simply sung the way the way Prince had sung it on the demos without much imagination to it (songs from the Family's album could've been better had it not sound like a Prince record sung by another act, same with the Time's songs though I loved most of them).

In fact, I think Prince's troubles were similar to that of later artists like R. Kelly and previous artists like James Brown and Sly Stone (and even Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye). They all had hits with other artists but it was more related to the artist than the group/solo artist with exceptions. In which they find a reputation writing and producing a big hit but struggled to continue with the trend as more personal issues led to them creating their own music. In the case of Prince with his label, I think he just plain gave up plus with his ongoing problems with Warner Bros. it was impossible.

[Edited 8/3/11 15:30pm]

If he even tried in the first place. What part did Prince play in -any- of the promo for the PP records? None. In fact, I think many of those acts have remarked about just how hands off he was when the record was put together and ready to go.

Spinlight said:

Timmy84 said:

I think it was that and a lot of other things. It added more to Prince's failure in trying to create a business that wasn't successful. He could've had an empire in the '80s if you think about, he had hits with other artists he either simply wrote (with others producing as was the case with the Bangles and Sinead O'Connor) or writing and producing (most of the acts that worked with him in Minneapolis), I think if he wasn't so in tune with HIS own music, maybe he could've cultivated on it but I'm realizing that even most of the songs he had for other people even within the Paisley Park label were mainly his records but with other artists singing it in the way he commanded it. Hardly no one he worked with literally was allowed to interpret unless you was a legend like Mavis Staples or Chaka Khan or even Larry Graham. Most of the others simply sung the way the way Prince had sung it on the demos without much imagination to it (songs from the Family's album could've been better had it not sound like a Prince record sung by another act, same with the Time's songs though I loved most of them).

In fact, I think Prince's troubles were similar to that of later artists like R. Kelly and previous artists like James Brown and Sly Stone (and even Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye). They all had hits with other artists but it was more related to the artist than the group/solo artist with exceptions. In which they find a reputation writing and producing a big hit but struggled to continue with the trend as more personal issues led to them creating their own music. In the case of Prince with his label, I think he just plain gave up plus with his ongoing problems with Warner Bros. it was impossible.

[Edited 8/3/11 15:30pm]

If he even tried in the first place. What part did Prince play in -any- of the promo for the PP records? None. In fact, I think many of those acts have remarked about just how hands off he was when the record was put together and ready to go.

didn't he direct a lot of their videos? That is promotion.

Zannaloaf said:

Spinlight said:

If he even tried in the first place. What part did Prince play in -any- of the promo for the PP records? None. In fact, I think many of those acts have remarked about just how hands off he was when the record was put together and ready to go.

didn't he direct a lot of their videos? That is promotion.

I guess....

ufoclub said:

Seems like the failure had to do with no great singles coming out of the label outside of Prince's own albums. No product = failure.

Partly, but was Mia Bocca not a great single? I think it's infrastructure and promotion. The label had no body to it, it was a mirage.

I guess it's not one thing, but a whole ton of things that probably all boil down to the captain of the ship not really being all that interested in that huge iceberg looking thing they were sailing into.

Spinlight said:

Zannaloaf said:

didn't he direct a lot of their videos? That is promotion.

I guess....

lol....it is. Especially back then, HUGE budgets

Zannaloaf said:

Spinlight said:

I guess....

lol....it is. Especially back then, HUGE budgets

Well I mean, they were not very good videos. lol

I think the only performer label that had a long shelf life was Reprise, started by Frank Sinatra. Maybe Dark Horse, but most of the releases on that was by George Harrison, who didn't release stuff much.

MickyDolenz said:

I think the only performer label that had a long shelf life was Reprise, started by Frank Sinatra. Maybe Dark Horse, but most of the releases on that was by George Harrison, who didn't release stuff much.

Wow, I didn't know Sinatra made Reprise!

That had some pretty big names on its roster.

Zannaloaf said:

Spinlight said:

Live, maybe.

Prince had no intentions of letting anyone else interfere with HIS vision that is The Time regardless of their live prowess. It was his project - they just happened to be the vehicle and he largely left those groups to their own devices with little input.

If The Time had wanted to leave and make a new record by themselves, they woulda/coulda/shoulda, but they simply broke up and went their separate ways. I am not convinced The Time, as a group, are anything to pay attention to when it comes to the studio and composition.

But they make pretty good session musicians.

Yeah- That Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis never could write worth a damn....

I know, right??!! It's not like they had ANY bit of success in the music business and in the studio after leaving Prince's fold. So, the statement MUST be true.

Spin, if the rest of the band had the nuts to all walk out when Jimmy and Terry got fired and continued with their own act and allowed to harness their own creativity, the sky would've been the limit. With all the hits Jam and Lewis made for numerous artists, Jesse's own hits, and a couple of the others' as well, they collectively would've been the BEST R&B/funk band of the 80s, hands down!

Spinlight said:

MickyDolenz said:

I think the only performer label that had a long shelf life was Reprise, started by Frank Sinatra. Maybe Dark Horse, but most of the releases on that was by George Harrison, who didn't release stuff much.

Wow, I didn't know Sinatra made Reprise!

That had some pretty big names on its roster.

Yep, including none other than The Time.

alexnvrmnd777 said:

Zannaloaf said:

Yeah- That Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis never could write worth a damn....

I know, right??!! It's not like they had ANY bit of success in the music business and in the studio after leaving Prince's fold. So, the statement MUST be true.

Spin, if the rest of the band had the nuts to all walk out when Jimmy and Terry got fired and continued with their own act and allowed to harness their own creativity, the sky would've been the limit. With all the hits Jam and Lewis made for numerous artists, Jesse's own hits, and a couple of the others' as well, they collectively would've been the BEST R&B/funk band of the 80s, hands down!

Real true. I think with the Time, there was a lot of talent that wasn't really being used properly. You could argue Prince kinda squandered it. Didn't even allow them in the studio. I'm sure they held their own, especially Jesse.

alexnvrmnd777 said:

Zannaloaf said:

Yeah- That Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis never could write worth a damn....

I know, right??!! It's not like they had ANY bit of success in the music business and in the studio after leaving Prince's fold. So, the statement MUST be true.

Spin, if the rest of the band had the nuts to all walk out when Jimmy and Terry got fired and continued with their own act and allowed to harness their own creativity, the sky would've been the limit. With all the hits Jam and Lewis made for numerous artists, Jesse's own hits, and a couple of the others' as well, they collectively would've been the BEST R&B/funk band of the 80s, hands down!

But it's not my point that they aren't a talented bunch of men. I said above that the group's worth was NOT equal to the sum of its parts. You would expect The Time to have zero, and I mean ZERO, problems churning out the funk. Yet they do. They are entirely paralyzed, as a group, without Prince. For 30 years. Keep that in mind - 30 years, they have had opportunities and for 30 years they have yet to make a step in the business without Prince. It's disappointing.

I am a big fan of The Time. But its nostalgia keeping people sated for now and it's not even working anymore because they have put forth zero and I mean ZERO effort in cultivating more than their small tiny group of followers. It took several months for their picture on Last.FM to even be THEIRS cuz there is some spanish group by the same name. That's right. This wonderfully respectable band is no damn unknown in today's culture that they can't even have their own picture up on a site that tracks how many people play their music!

Lawd hammercy. I'm JUST SAYING that with people as talented as Jimmy, Terry, Jesse, and Morris in the group (not to mention BEAN?? And Monte???), you would expect them to drop some hot fire. They don't. And it's boring, trifling, and tiring.

SoulAlive said:

from Wikipedia....

Paisley Park Records

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Paisley Park Records folded with Prince retaining the masters of all artists, artists advances that were kept by the company, and no support from the label. All releases are out of print, including releases by George Clinton, whose albums recorded on Prince's label are the only recordings of his that are currently out of print.

[edit] Prince albums

• 1985: Prince and The Revolution: Around the World in a Day
• 1986: Prince and The Revolution: Parade
• 1987: Prince: Sign "☮" the Times
• 1988: Prince: Lovesexy
• 1990: Prince: Graffiti Bridge
• 1991: Prince and The New Power Generation: Diamonds and Pearls
• 1992: Prince and the New Power Generation: Love Symbol
• 1993: Prince: The Hits/The B-Sides

[edit] Other albums

• 1985: Sheila E.: Romance 1600
• 1985: The Family: The Family
• 1986: Mazarati: Mazarati
• 1987: Sheila E.: Sheila E.
• 1987: Taja Sevelle: Taja Sevelle§
• 1987: Jill Jones: Jill Jones
• 1987: Madhouse: 8
• 1987: Madhouse: 16
• 1988: Dale Bozzio: Riot in English
• 1988: The Three O'Clock: Vermillion§
• 1988: Good Question: Good Question
• 1989: Tony LeMans: Tony LeMans§
• 1989: George Clinton: The Cinderella Theory
• 1989: Mavis Staples: Time Waits for No One
• 1989: Kahoru Kohiruimaki: Time The Motion^[2] (Japanese release only)
• 1990: The Time: Pandemonium§
• 1990: Kahoru Kohiruimaki: Time The Motion Live (Japanese release only)
• 1991: T.C. Ellis: True Confessions^[3]
• 1991: Eric Leeds: Times Squared
• 1992: Ingrid Chavez: May 19, 1992
• 1993: George Clinton: Hey Man, Smell My Finger
• 1993: Carmen Electra: Carmen Electra
• 1993: Mavis Staples: The Voice
• 1993: Eric Leeds: Things Left Unsaid

First of all, I love this list of LP releases and would love even more to see a list of all the singles released on the label. Is this list complete? I only ask cuz it is wiki after all...

Second, I take issue with highlighted comment. George Clinton's R&B Skeletons In The Closet, originally released by Capitol Records, is out of print and has been for a long time. Like I said, it is wiki after all...

[Edited 8/5/11 22:59pm]

Looking at that list, the only hit singles from Paisley artists (outside of Prince) that I saw people playing in their cars were:

1. Screams of Passion

2. Jerk Out

3. Hold Me

And out of those only "Jerk Out" seems comparable to Prince's material in terms of cutting edge pop. I think the material was just not good enough to hit. Plenty of good album play material, but no standout singles makes a label fail in the old pop game.

The only other way it could have succeeded was through touring revenue of each artist, but without hits to draw the audience, who would see the show? Only die hard fans.

ufoclub said:

Looking at that list, the only hit singles from Paisley artists (outside of Prince) that I saw people playing in their cars were:

1. Screams of Passion

2. Jerk Out

3. Hold Me

And out of those only "Jerk Out" seems comparable to Prince's material in terms of cutting edge pop. I think the material was just not good enough to hit. Plenty of good album play material, but no standout singles makes a label fail in the old pop game.

The only other way it could have succeeded was through touring revenue of each artist, but without hits to draw the audience, who would see the show? Only die hard fans.

Never heard anyone in "the masses" play Screams or Hold Me, Jerk Out yes...

And, I'd add A Love Bizarre...

That is it.

Never thought of it that way ufoclub, but you've got a point!

djThunderfunk said:

ufoclub said:

Looking at that list, the only hit singles from Paisley artists (outside of Prince) that I saw people playing in their cars were:

1. Screams of Passion

2. Jerk Out

3. Hold Me

And out of those only "Jerk Out" seems comparable to Prince's material in terms of cutting edge pop. I think the material was just not good enough to hit. Plenty of good album play material, but no standout singles makes a label fail in the old pop game.

The only other way it could have succeeded was through touring revenue of each artist, but without hits to draw the audience, who would see the show? Only die hard fans.

Never heard anyone in "the masses" play Screams or Hold Me, Jerk Out yes...

And, I'd add A Love Bizarre...

That is it.

Never thought of it that way ufoclub, but you've got a point!

"Love Bizarre" was on Warners main label! I think...

Spinlight said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

I know, right??!! It's not like they had ANY bit of success in the music business and in the studio after leaving Prince's fold. So, the statement MUST be true.

Spin, if the rest of the band had the nuts to all walk out when Jimmy and Terry got fired and continued with their own act and allowed to harness their own creativity, the sky would've been the limit. With all the hits Jam and Lewis made for numerous artists, Jesse's own hits, and a couple of the others' as well, they collectively would've been the BEST R&B/funk band of the 80s, hands down!

But it's not my point that they aren't a talented bunch of men. I said above that the group's worth was NOT equal to the sum of its parts. You would expect The Time to have zero, and I mean ZERO, problems churning out the funk. Yet they do. They are entirely paralyzed, as a group, without Prince. For 30 years. Keep that in mind - 30 years, they have had opportunities and for 30 years they have yet to make a step in the business without Prince. It's disappointing.

I am a big fan of The Time. But its nostalgia keeping people sated for now and it's not even working anymore because they have put forth zero and I mean ZERO effort in cultivating more than their small tiny group of followers. It took several months for their picture on Last.FM to even be THEIRS cuz there is some spanish group by the same name. That's right. This wonderfully respectable band is no damn unknown in today's culture that they can't even have their own picture up on a site that tracks how many people play their music!

Lawd hammercy. I'm JUST SAYING that with people as talented as Jimmy, Terry, Jesse, and Morris in the group (not to mention BEAN?? And Monte???), you would expect them to drop some hot fire. They don't. And it's boring, trifling, and tiring.

100% on the money...and with 2193 fans on facebook and a staggering 929 followers on tweeter we can find morris day and the touring version of the time sleepwalking their way through jungle love at the birchmere (it's not far from ronald reagan washington national airport).

i grew up listening to the time and i still love the music...but 21 years after pandemonium was released the only output is the live footage of the old hits recorded on a camera phone then uploaded onto youtube.

however rumour has it a new album is in the bag (d'angelo digs it)...but they have been in this place before and nothing ever happened. as you said paralyzed.

i'm bored of it but a part of me lives in hope.

holding something together that is falling apart

ufoclub said:

djThunderfunk said:

Never heard anyone in "the masses" play Screams or Hold Me, Jerk Out yes...

And, I'd add A Love Bizarre...

That is it.

Never thought of it that way ufoclub, but you've got a point!

"Love Bizarre" was on Warners main label! I think...

Nope, it was Paisley Park. And around these parts virtually all of Sheila's Paisley Park singles got mad airplay on the radio when they were released. I was never a big fan of "Koo Koo" or "Hold Me", but urban radio played the hell out of those songs.

ufoclub said:

djThunderfunk said:

Never heard anyone in "the masses" play Screams or Hold Me, Jerk Out yes...

And, I'd add A Love Bizarre...

That is it.

Never thought of it that way ufoclub, but you've got a point!

"Love Bizarre" was on Warners main label! I think...

It was Paisley.

I remembered another one I heard others playing a lot: Round And Round

Adisa said:

ufoclub said:

"Love Bizarre" was on Warners main label! I think...

Nope, it was Paisley Park. And around these parts virtually all of Sheila's Paisley Park singles got mad airplay on the radio when they were released. I was never a big fan of "Koo Koo" or "Hold Me", but urban radio played the hell out of those songs.

I was pissed when Sheila E's third album didn't get the promotion it deserved.It's her best work but there wasn't even a video for the first single "Hold Me"! In those days,a music video was so important.A powerful song like "Faded Photographs" would have been a Top 10 pop smash if it had been released as a single and promoted properly.

SoulAlive said:

Adisa said:

Nope, it was Paisley Park. And around these parts virtually all of Sheila's Paisley Park singles got mad airplay on the radio when they were released. I was never a big fan of "Koo Koo" or "Hold Me", but urban radio played the hell out of those songs.

I was pissed when Sheila E's third album didn't get the promotion it deserved. It's her best work but there wasn't even a video for the first single "Hold Me"! In those days,a music video was so important.A powerful song like "Faded Photographs" would have been a Top 10 pop smash if it had been released as a single and promoted properly.

Hence this thread in a way, right?

safetypin said:

Spinlight said:

But it's not my point that they aren't a talented bunch of men. I said above that the group's worth was NOT equal to the sum of its parts. You would expect The Time to have zero, and I mean ZERO, problems churning out the funk. Yet they do. They are entirely paralyzed, as a group, without Prince. For 30 years. Keep that in mind - 30 years, they have had opportunities and for 30 years they have yet to make a step in the business without Prince. It's disappointing.

I am a big fan of The Time. But its nostalgia keeping people sated for now and it's not even working anymore because they have put forth zero and I mean ZERO effort in cultivating more than their small tiny group of followers. It took several months for their picture on Last.FM to even be THEIRS cuz there is some spanish group by the same name. That's right. This wonderfully respectable band is no damn unknown in today's culture that they can't even have their own picture up on a site that tracks how many people play their music!

Lawd hammercy. I'm JUST SAYING that with people as talented as Jimmy, Terry, Jesse, and Morris in the group (not to mention BEAN?? And Monte???), you would expect them to drop some hot fire. They don't. And it's boring, trifling, and tiring.

100% on the money...and with 2193 fans on facebook and a staggering 929 followers on tweeter we can find morris day and the touring version of the time sleepwalking their way through jungle love at the birchmere (it's not far from ronald reagan washington national airport).

i grew up listening to the time and i still love the music...but 21 years after pandemonium was released the only output is the live footage of the old hits recorded on a camera phone then uploaded onto youtube.

however rumour has it a new album is in the bag (d'angelo digs it)...but they have been in this place before and nothing ever happened. as you said paralyzed.

i'm bored of it but a part of me lives in hope.

holding something together that is falling apart

I'm kinda disappointed, well maybe real disappointed, that the Time has turned into this. The original group had so much potential. If only they had learned how to handle their business in spite of Prince...

djThunderfunk said:

ufoclub said:

"Love Bizarre" was on Warners main label! I think...

It was Paisley.

I remembered another one I heard others playing a lot: Round And Round

what went wrong?

hmmm...

too much money wasted

not enough sales

no professional management

prince and wb at war

NouveauDance said:

SoulAlive said:

What went wrong? What do you think Prince should have done differently?

Did you post these two releases on purpose to illustrate why the label tanked?!

As everyone said - it was a vanity label, there was little or no promotion put into the releases.

This does not take away from the quality of the music - it started out with great releases - The Family, Mazarati, Jill Jones, Madhouse, but turned to mush pretty much the same time Prince's music started to decline. There were few interesting releases later on - the George Clinton albums are rubbish. The exception is Ingrid Chavez which is one of the most interesting releases on the label.

A wasted opportunity, but how much did Prince really want it to succeed? He wanted to put the music out, but obviously he wasn't too bothered about it getting heard by the biggest audience possible.

SoulAlive said:

Here are some things that Prince could have done to make Paisley Park Records a successful label:

***Utlilize the talents of Andre Cymone---Paisley Park Records needed some great in-house producers/songwriters.Andre should have been offered a position like this.We all saw what he did with Jody Watley...imagine if he had been allowed to produce Jill Jones? Her album might have had a few hits.

***Keep up with what's going on in the industry---In the early 90s,R&B boy groups were a big deal.Groups like Boys II Men and Jodeci were selling millions.Where was Paisley Park's boy group?

***Sign truly talented,interesting artists---Great artists like Tony Toni Tone! and Meshell Ndegeocello came very close to being signed to Paisley.Instead,Paisley signed artists like T.C.Ellis,Carmen Elektra and Good Question

Shit i never even heard of Good Question and i paid Carmen Elektra as much

attention as i paid a frog's turd. When i first saw Good Question i was thinking

of Answered Question with Marva King.

phunkdaddy said:

SoulAlive said:

Here are some things that Prince could have done to make Paisley Park Records a successful label:

***Utlilize the talents of Andre Cymone---Paisley Park Records needed some great in-house producers/songwriters.Andre should have been offered a position like this.We all saw what he did with Jody Watley...imagine if he had been allowed to produce Jill Jones? Her album might have had a few hits.

***Keep up with what's going on in the industry---In the early 90s,R&B boy groups were a big deal.Groups like Boys II Men and Jodeci were selling millions.Where was Paisley Park's boy group?

***Sign truly talented,interesting artists---Great artists like Tony Toni Tone! and Meshell Ndegeocello came very close to being signed to Paisley.Instead,Paisley signed artists like T.C.Ellis,Carmen Elektra and Good Question

Shit i never even heard of Good Question and i paid Carmen Elektra as much

attention as i paid a frog's turd. When i first saw Good Question i was thinking

of Answered Question with Marva King.

Good Question had a very generic late-80s dance/pop sound.This was their first single....

"Got A New Love" by Good Question (1988)

SoulAlive said:

phunkdaddy said:

Shit i never even heard of Good Question and i paid Carmen Elektra as much

attention as i paid a frog's turd. When i first saw Good Question i was thinking

of Answered Question with Marva King.

Good Question had a very generic late-80s dance/pop sound.This was their first single....

"Got A New Love" by Good Question (1988)

phunkdaddy said:

SoulAlive said:

Good Question had a very generic late-80s dance/pop sound.This was their first single....

"Got A New Love" by Good Question (1988)

[Edited 8/7/11 21:03pm]

See what I mean? Paisley Park started off with alot of promise but by the late 80s,there were alot of mediocre acts being signed.The label lost focus.