Of all the artist Prince put on, who made the best music after he stopped working with them [besides Wendy & Lisa]?

Jesse Johnson springs to mind

gunner82 said:

Of all the artist Prince put on, who made the best music after he stopped working with them [besides Wendy & Lisa]?

Wendy & Lisa would be considered proteges (technically)

a toss up between Sheila E (Sex Cymbal) & Morris Day (Fishnet)

But I think Jesse Johnson really hit it out better than Morris, he really had the Minneapolis sound and it was original: I still love hearing the song he did at the end of the Breakfast Club. I think he was also in Coming 2 America during the scene when Eddie Murphy's love interests was delivered ruby earrings

Can U Help Me

Jam/Lewis, Jesse, W&L, Vanity, Morris and Sheila have all done great things post-Prince.

Nobody listens to Ingrid Chavez lastest stuff? I really like a lot of the stuff she did after working with Prince...

most people on here know if it had no prince involvment they really didnt give a damn just like most of the record companies. i listened 2 all of wendy and lisa cds most of em r boring . if they wrote prince music like some claim y they couldnt write one single hit 4 themselves??? most of there songs have a demo sound 2 em not full and crisp

I beg to differ. I like it or I don't. Wendy and Lisa's records are some of the fullest sounds of any associate. Plus they pop up all over peoples hit records in the 90s.

Eric Leeds records were good, wish he would have played with more people outside of his own stuff. Susannah co-wrote Pure Saints song All Shores which was a huge hit in the UK, and wrote some tracks for Eric Clapton and Madonna. St. Paul worked on a ton of jazz records (David Sanborn, George Benson, Joe Sample, Al Jarreu) and co-wrote the Corrs hit Only When I Sleep. Sheila has had good cds and collaborations with other artists. Jesse's solo records were also very strong. We all know the Jam and Lewis story. By and large I think the core associates have done very well for themselves musically- maybe just not in the upfront position.

cbarnes3121 said:

most people on here know if it had no prince involvment they really didnt give a damn just like most of the record companies. i listened 2 all of wendy and lisa cds most of em r boring . if they wrote prince music like some claim y they couldnt write one single hit 4 themselves??? most of there songs have a demo sound 2 em not full and crisp

cbarnes3121 said:

most people on here know if it had no prince involvment they really didnt give a damn just like most of the record companies. i listened 2 all of wendy and lisa cds most of em r boring . if they wrote prince music like some claim y they couldnt write one single hit 4 themselves??? most of there songs have a demo sound 2 em not full and crisp

Waterfalls was a hit

OldFriends4Sale said:

cbarnes3121 said:

most people on here know if it had no prince involvment they really didnt give a damn just like most of the record companies. i listened 2 all of wendy and lisa cds most of em r boring . if they wrote prince music like some claim y they couldnt write one single hit 4 themselves??? most of there songs have a demo sound 2 em not full and crisp

Waterfalls was a hit

but it wasn't a hit like Princes hits...you know being all demo-ish...

Jesse is the clear winner here.

A handful of solo albums and production credits.

Zannaloaf said:

I beg to differ. I like it or I don't. Wendy and Lisa's records are some of the fullest sounds of any associate. Plus they pop up all over peoples hit records in the 90s.

Eric Leeds records were good, wish he would have played with more people outside of his own stuff. Susannah co-wrote Pure Saints song All Shores which was a huge hit in the UK, and wrote some tracks for Eric Clapton and Madonna. St. Paul worked on a ton of jazz records (David Sanborn, George Benson, Joe Sample, Al Jarreu) and co-wrote the Corrs hit Only When I Sleep. Sheila has had good cds and collaborations with other artists. Jesse's solo records were also very strong. We all know the Jam and Lewis story. By and large I think the core associates have done very well for themselves musically- maybe just not in the upfront position.

The issue is that most of them recorded very interesting music but at the same time none ever did anything as sophisticated or original than what Prince was doing at the time. In the end I'd say that I really like 80% of the material they all released after leaving Prince, and some albums were even small gems in their own musical category, but noone was either as prolific or as crazy as Prince musically speaking.

Wendy & Lisa were probably amongst the most interesting: Eroica in particular was a very ambitious record and its a pity that their carreer kinda collapsed after that. The first two albums remain really cool pop classics, and their 2 later albums are nice though not as challenging IMO.

Bobby Z's album was an absolute disaster.

Fink's solo album wasn't very interesting either.

BrownMark's albums are really cool but nothing more than basic MPLS sound.

Dez Dickerson recorded some interesting new wave stuff in the 80's, that was released recently, then turned to a disastrous christian rock act.

André Cymone was amazing: his first album is a new wave masterpiece and the 2 others, as well as The Girls' Girl Talk, were great experimental synth-funk, but he remained in the shadows and disappeared.

Morris Day did some of the best MPLS sound records ever with his first 2 album, which feature a very agressive sound, then his thirs album and the Day Z's album (of which I've only heard 2 songs) were very decent new jack swing efforts, but then his career collapsed as well.

Jesse Johnson is a bit overrated IMO: I like everything he did from his solo albums to Ta Mara & The Seen but in the end he did nothing more than being yet another basic MPLS sound act like BrownMark and Morris Day, then he turned into a Hendrix copycat in 96, and eventually released a really challenging album... last year!

I haven't heard Monte Moir's solo album.

Jam & Lewis turned into the succesful producers we all know and did memorable albums, notably with Janet Jackson. They almost recreated the MPLS sound with her and other acts, giving it a very powerful trademark of their own, and another merit of theirs is that they evolved really well into the modern sounds of the 90's and 2000's.

St. Paul's first album was a really cool, though unsurprising, MPLS sound effort, then he tried to become a pop act and his later albums turned absolute disasters.

Sheila E. released a really great new jack swing album in 1991, which would have deserved more success. Her 2 later albums, though nice to listen to, are nothing more than generic jazz-funk-soul music.

Vanity recorded a very average album in 84, then released a pop masterpiece (which she didn't write nor produce) in 86, on which every song is delicious, then she disappeared.

Apollonia's only solo album was a dance oriented, forgetable disaster.

Eddie M. released several solo albums, I only heard one but it was a disaster as well, kind of pseudo jazz with lame drum machines.

Eric Leeds released a decent album on PP in 93, but his third album is actually much better, ending-up being a real jazz album, and a really nice one.

Rhonda Smith' 2 albums are really cool, but they sound a bit like Me'shell Ndegeocello without Me'shell's weird genius.

Taja Sevelle released a dance-oriented piece of crap in 1991, then released the amazing "Toys Of vanity" in 1998, which is a very deep pop album with R&B and trip-hop influences and astonishing lyrics. But that masterpiece didn't sell and that was the end of her.

I've never heard Kat Dyson's album.

I've never heard Jill Jones' 2000's album.

Mazarati's second album, though nowhere as strong as the first one which is a classic, is nice & funkly, but remains an unoriginal MPLS sound disc.

Ingrid's long awaited second album last year is really beautiful and ambitious. Not as hypnotic as the first one, but very pleasant and original. It was worth the wait!

I probably forgot a few, but that's a quickly written review of what I've heard.

databank said:

Wendy & Lisa were probably amongst the most interesting: Eroica in particular was a very ambitious record and its a pity that their carreer kinda collapsed after that. The first two albums remain really cool pop classics, and their 2 later albums are nice though not as challenging IMO.

White Flags is FAR more mature than anything Prince has done and musically and quite challenging. If anything it is not everyones (especially on the org) cup of tea. You can't really say their career collapsed when they just won an Emmy and are writing tons of scores. As far as being prolific, if you look at the amount of material they have out there beyond their pop stuff you'd be wrong.

BrownMarks last TWO cds were not anywhere near the MPLS sound.

Andre did not disappear - he made Jody Watley's career.

People tend to be pretty selective when looking at these peoples careers.

Zannaloaf said:

databank said:

Wendy & Lisa were probably amongst the most interesting: Eroica in particular was a very ambitious record and its a pity that their carreer kinda collapsed after that. The first two albums remain really cool pop classics, and their 2 later albums are nice though not as challenging IMO.

White Flags is FAR more mature than anything Prince has done and musically and quite challenging. If anything it is not everyones (especially on the org) cup of tea. You can't really say their career collapsed when they just won an Emmy and are writing tons of scores. As far as being prolific, if you look at the amount of material they have out there beyond their pop stuff you'd be wrong.

BrownMarks last TWO cds were not anywhere near the MPLS sound.

Andre did not disappear - he made Jody Watley's career.

People tend to be pretty selective when looking at these peoples careers.

Jeez dude i'm sorry, mighta missed a few things and i'll admit that my opinions r just opinions and i don't mean that a bunch of hits is a career anyway, i'm just talking about releasing albums in general...

Which Brownmark's last 2 CD's? I knew he had an band but...

databank said:

The issue is that most of them recorded very interesting music but at the same time none ever did anything as sophisticated or original than what Prince was doing at the time. In the end I'd say that I really like 80% of the material they all released after leaving Prince, and some albums were even small gems in their own musical category, but noone was either as prolific or as crazy as Prince musically speaking.

Wendy & Lisa were probably amongst the most interesting: Eroica in particular was a very ambitious record and its a pity that their carreer kinda collapsed after that. The first two albums remain really cool pop classics, and their 2 later albums are nice though not as challenging IMO.

Bobby Z's album was an absolute disaster.

Fink's solo album wasn't very interesting either.

BrownMark's albums are really cool but nothing more than basic MPLS sound.

Dez Dickerson recorded some interesting new wave stuff in the 80's, that was released recently, then turned to a disastrous christian rock act.

André Cymone was amazing: his first album is a new wave masterpiece and the 2 others, as well as The Girls' Girl Talk, were great experimental synth-funk, but he remained in the shadows and disappeared.

Morris Day did some of the best MPLS sound records ever with his first 2 album, which feature a very agressive sound, then his thirs album and the Day Z's album (of which I've only heard 2 songs) were very decent new jack swing efforts, but then his career collapsed as well.

Jesse Johnson is a bit overrated IMO: I like everything he did from his solo albums to Ta Mara & The Seen but in the end he did nothing more than being yet another basic MPLS sound act like BrownMark and Morris Day, then he turned into a Hendrix copycat in 96, and eventually released a really challenging album... last year!

I haven't heard Monte Moir's solo album.

Jam & Lewis turned into the succesful producers we all know and did memorable albums, notably with Janet Jackson. They almost recreated the MPLS sound with her and other acts, giving it a very powerful trademark of their own, and another merit of theirs is that they evolved really well into the modern sounds of the 90's and 2000's.

St. Paul's first album was a really cool, though unsurprising, MPLS sound effort, then he tried to become a pop act and his later albums turned absolute disasters.

Sheila E. released a really great new jack swing album in 1991, which would have deserved more success. Her 2 later albums, though nice to listen to, are nothing more than generic jazz-funk-soul music.

Vanity recorded a very average album in 84, then released a pop masterpiece (which she didn't write nor produce) in 86, on which every song is delicious, then she disappeared.

Apollonia's only solo album was a dance oriented, forgetable disaster.

Eddie M. released several solo albums, I only heard one but it was a disaster as well, kind of pseudo jazz with lame drum machines.

Eric Leeds released a decent album on PP in 93, but his third album is actually much better, ending-up being a real jazz album, and a really nice one.

Rhonda Smith' 2 albums are really cool, but they sound a bit like Me'shell Ndegeocello without Me'shell's weird genius.

Taja Sevelle released a dance-oriented piece of crap in 1991, then released the amazing "Toys Of vanity" in 1998, which is a very deep pop album with R&B and trip-hop influences and astonishing lyrics. But that masterpiece didn't sell and that was the end of her.

I've never heard Kat Dyson's album.

I've never heard Jill Jones' 2000's album.

Mazarati's second album, though nowhere as strong as the first one which is a classic, is nice & funkly, but remains an unoriginal MPLS sound disc.

Ingrid's long awaited second album last year is really beautiful and ambitious. Not as hypnotic as the first one, but very pleasant and original. It was worth the wait!

I probably forgot a few, but that's a quickly written review of what I've heard.

I always liked Andre Cymone but I wouldnt call anything he has done a masterpiece.

I always wouldnt dismiss Dez Dickerson just because he does christian rock - his One Man album is very good.

Poplife88 said:

Zannaloaf said:

I beg to differ. I like it or I don't. Wendy and Lisa's records are some of the fullest sounds of any associate. Plus they pop up all over peoples hit records in the 90s.

Eric Leeds records were good, wish he would have played with more people outside of his own stuff. Susannah co-wrote Pure Saints song All Shores which was a huge hit in the UK, and wrote some tracks for Eric Clapton and Madonna. St. Paul worked on a ton of jazz records (David Sanborn, George Benson, Joe Sample, Al Jarreu) and co-wrote the Corrs hit Only When I Sleep. Sheila has had good cds and collaborations with other artists. Jesse's solo records were also very strong. We all know the Jam and Lewis story. By and large I think the core associates have done very well for themselves musically- maybe just not in the upfront position.

They are still the most overrated Prince associates in history

Zannaloaf said:

databank said:

Wendy & Lisa were probably amongst the most interesting: Eroica in particular was a very ambitious record and its a pity that their carreer kinda collapsed after that. The first two albums remain really cool pop classics, and their 2 later albums are nice though not as challenging IMO.

White Flags is FAR more mature than anything Prince has done and musically and quite challenging. If anything it is not everyones (especially on the org) cup of tea. You can't really say their career collapsed when they just won an Emmy and are writing tons of scores. As far as being prolific, if you look at the amount of material they have out there beyond their pop stuff you'd be wrong.

BrownMarks last TWO cds were not anywhere near the MPLS sound.

Andre did not disappear - he made Jody Watley's career.

People tend to be pretty selective when looking at these peoples careers.

I soooo disagree about White Flags. Many of the tracks sounded so dated, like 80's poprock ballads or alternative or whatever you want to call it. I couldn't get into it. Nor did I like BrownMark's last cds, but Jesse Johnson's cd---nows that's awesome!

[Edited 4/28/11 17:59pm]

wonder505 said:

Easily Jesse Johnson. His whole catalog is great. Morris's first two solo albums were very good as well.

sosgemini said:

wonder505 said:

I soooo disagree about White Flags. Many of the tracks sounded so dated, like 80's poprock ballads or alternative or whatever you want to call it. I couldn't get into it. Nor did I like BrownMark's last cds, but Jesse Johnson's cd---nows that's awesome!

[Edited 4/28/11 17:59pm]

What? White Flags, dated? Call it boring and not your cup of tea but there is nothing dated nor is there a poprock ballad to be found on the disc. Its obvious they are not your cup of tea and that's okay.

ok maybe dated and poprock are not the right words though dated did come to mind, just some kind of alternative, and I like alternative but its not innovative and fresh, and I don't see what's so challenging about the tracks I listened to.. Mature, yes, challenging no.

[Edited 4/29/11 17:09pm]

Other than Sheila E and the Members of The Time and their various projects, I don't find any of the other protege's music even remotely appealing.

Oopsie! Almost forgot Tamar...I was thinking of old school proteges.

[Edited 4/29/11 17:59pm]

wonder505 said:

wonder505 said:

sosgemini said:

wonder505 said: What? White Flags, dated? Call it boring and not your cup of tea but there is nothing dated nor is there a poprock ballad to be found on the disc. Its obvious they are not your cup of tea and that's okay.

ok maybe dated and poprock are not the right words though dated did come to mind, just some kind of alternative, and I like alternative but its not innovative and fresh, and I don't see what's so challenging about the tracks I listened to.. Mature, yes, challenging no.

[Edited 4/29/11 17:09pm]

hm. Yeah- you missed on that description. Clearly you like funky, and that's fine. But I'd like to know in what way they are not innovative and fresh? Who is it they are biting off of? I like Jesse's last album a LOT, but I also hear plenty of nod to old school music in there. I would not call it innovative, but an updated production for sure and a great listen with killer guitar. W&L last album is WAY more subtle, maybe it's not your thing, but be careful calling something dated unless you have some comparison to make. That said so far I'm digging this stuff more than Prince is doing on records now. The worst part is his live arrangements of his newer stuff KILL the album tracks even when I'm not that impressed with the song. Maybe he should cut an album live.

Zannaloaf said:

wonder505 said:

ok maybe dated and poprock are not the right words though dated did come to mind, just some kind of alternative, and I like alternative but its not innovative and fresh, and I don't see what's so challenging about the tracks I listened to.. Mature, yes, challenging no.

[Edited 4/29/11 17:09pm]

hm. Yeah- you missed on that description. Clearly you like funky, and that's fine. But I'd like to know in what way they are not innovative and fresh? Who is it they are biting off of? I like Jesse's last album a LOT, but I also hear plenty of nod to old school music in there. I would not call it innovative, but an updated production for sure and a great listen with killer guitar. W&L last album is WAY more subtle, maybe it's not your thing, but be careful calling something dated unless you have some comparison to make. That said so far I'm digging this stuff more than Prince is doing on records now. The worst part is his live arrangements of his newer stuff KILL the album tracks even when I'm not that impressed with the song. Maybe he should cut an album live.

Please don't assume what I like or don't like because i don't like White Flags. I like all types of music, from funk to rock, new age, some hip hop, reggae, alternative and even light rock, but no country, well maybe a few songs. I'm not going to assume what you like because you don't like any of Prince's new music. I just feel that White Flags is not a great listen at all. If you feel this cd is better than LotusFlower or any of Prince's new stuff then so be it but I personally cannot fathom that because cd is not engaging to me. If you feel differently then that's fine. As far as live tracks that just a matter of personal opinion, i've enjoyed both studio and live versions of 3121, some of the tracks from planet earth, laydown I can listen to both and the same with the LotusFlower cd.

[Edited 4/30/11 18:05pm]

I wouldnt say that Apollonia's album was a disaster! It is an upbeat album that puts me in a good mood. People slate her singing but I like the sound of her voice. There are worse female singers. Tanita Tikaram and Desiree are two examples.

wonder505 said:

Zannaloaf said:

hm. Yeah- you missed on that description. Clearly you like funky, and that's fine. But I'd like to know in what way they are not innovative and fresh? Who is it they are biting off of? I like Jesse's last album a LOT, but I also hear plenty of nod to old school music in there. I would not call it innovative, but an updated production for sure and a great listen with killer guitar. W&L last album is WAY more subtle, maybe it's not your thing, but be careful calling something dated unless you have some comparison to make. That said so far I'm digging this stuff more than Prince is doing on records now. The worst part is his live arrangements of his newer stuff KILL the album tracks even when I'm not that impressed with the song. Maybe he should cut an album live.

Please don't assume what I like or don't like because i don't like White Flags. I like all types of music, from funk to rock, new age, some hip hop, reggae, alternative and even light rock, but no country, well maybe a few songs. I'm not going to assume what you like because you don't like any of Prince's new music. I just feel that White Flags is not a great listen at all. If you feel this cd is better than LotusFlower or any of Prince's new stuff then so be it but I personally cannot fathom that because cd is not engaging to me. If you feel differently then that's fine. As far as live tracks that just a matter of personal opinion, i've enjoyed both studio and live versions of 3121, some of the tracks from planet earth, laydown I can listen to both and the same with the LotusFlower cd.

[Edited 4/30/11 18:05pm]

my assumption was based on your leanings in this post only. Here's what I find lacking in the latest Prince compositions...effort. In other words, I've heard most of what he is doing before. I hear bits and pieces I like, but then it devolves into something scattered and vaguely familiar from stuff he has done in the past. Not that I have a problem with riffing on yourself- many artists have done a good job of that. I feel I'd rather listen to the "original" compositions these recall to me (or in some cases remember the live show I saw where he did it that much better). My own personal take is that as an "A" student without trying he has lost his focus. Sometimes being a "B" or "C" student makes you work harder. I could care less at this point if he DOES do anything I like, cause he has a great body of work I love and respect. By the same token I wouldn't mind. White Flags is not on my daily listen, but hen I listen I play the WHOLE thing because it works and creates a mood for me. Ultimately it's apples and oranges as far as styles and intent.

Zannaloaf said:

wonder505 said:

Please don't assume what I like or don't like because i don't like White Flags. I like all types of music, from funk to rock, new age, some hip hop, reggae, alternative and even light rock, but no country, well maybe a few songs. I'm not going to assume what you like because you don't like any of Prince's new music. I just feel that White Flags is not a great listen at all. If you feel this cd is better than LotusFlower or any of Prince's new stuff then so be it but I personally cannot fathom that because cd is not engaging to me. If you feel differently then that's fine. As far as live tracks that just a matter of personal opinion, i've enjoyed both studio and live versions of 3121, some of the tracks from planet earth, laydown I can listen to both and the same with the LotusFlower cd.

[Edited 4/30/11 18:05pm]

my assumption was based on your leanings in this post only. Here's what I find lacking in the latest Prince compositions...effort. In other words, I've heard most of what he is doing before. I hear bits and pieces I like, but then it devolves into something scattered and vaguely familiar from stuff he has done in the past. Not that I have a problem with riffing on yourself- many artists have done a good job of that. I feel I'd rather listen to the "original" compositions these recall to me (or in some cases remember the live show I saw where he did it that much better). My own personal take is that as an "A" student without trying he has lost his focus. Sometimes being a "B" or "C" student makes you work harder. I could care less at this point if he DOES do anything I like, cause he has a great body of work I love and respect. By the same token I wouldn't mind. White Flags is not on my daily listen, but hen I listen I play the WHOLE thing because it works and creates a mood for me. Ultimately it's apples and oranges as far as styles and intent.

well if you want to give White Flags and A for "effort" than that's cool I guess, but its still unlistenable and not a very good music to me. Its all subjective I guess. I have a lot of indie musicians friends who give me their original work to listen to, some of it is real good, some of it is bad, but I'm not going to say its good solely based on effort if it just doesn't move me or grab me and pull me in..and the same goes for even Prince's music.

[Edited 5/1/11 19:22pm]

Out of all his former proteges, I can honestly say I love pretty much of all Wendy & Lisa's stuff.

wonder505 said:

Zannaloaf said:

White Flags is FAR more mature than anything Prince has done and musically and quite challenging. If anything it is not everyones (especially on the org) cup of tea. You can't really say their career collapsed when they just won an Emmy and are writing tons of scores. As far as being prolific, if you look at the amount of material they have out there beyond their pop stuff you'd be wrong.

BrownMarks last TWO cds were not anywhere near the MPLS sound.

Andre did not disappear - he made Jody Watley's career.

People tend to be pretty selective when looking at these peoples careers.

I soooo disagree about White Flags. Many of the tracks sounded so dated, like 80's poprock ballads or alternative or whatever you want to call it. I couldn't get into it. Nor did I like BrownMark's last cds, but Jesse Johnson's cd---nows that's awesome!

[Edited 4/28/11 17:59pm]

THere are 2 songs produced by Levi Seacer in Paisley Park on Brownmark's second CD. Prince is actually singing on a track called Bang Bang.