Spinlight said:

cbarnes3121 said:

i dont get it how there could be sooo much beef quest love said that the orginal time played at prince house during the 3121 times this was when they did the grammies. no matter what people think prince is a big part of the time its his creation not morris ,jesse jerome, jimmy none of them they all came alone after the album was done so u can say prince and morris is the time far as records concerned

Jellybean Johnson was the last (read: most recent) member of the original Time lineup who has suggested Prince was involved in blocking the Time's new record. This isn't new news and no matter what kinda PR hype trickles down from the MPLS scene to Bhangra UK artists is to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't that information come from a forum member who was paraphrasing something Jellybean allegedly said to them privately without providing any further evidence?

So THAT should be taken with a pinch of salt also and it's certainly a lot less authorative than the TimeWitnessNews account and the theoriginaltimeband website and twitter accounts which have been accurate in the past.

And I'm not a Bhangra artist.

Militant said:

Spinlight said:

Jellybean Johnson was the last (read: most recent) member of the original Time lineup who has suggested Prince was involved in blocking the Time's new record. This isn't new news and no matter what kinda PR hype trickles down from the MPLS scene to Bhangra UK artists is to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't that information come from a forum member who was paraphrasing something Jellybean allegedly said to them privately without providing any further evidence?

So THAT should be taken with a pinch of salt also and it's certainly a lot less authorative than the TimeWitnessNews account and the theoriginaltimeband website and twitter accounts which have been accurate in the past.

And I'm not a Bhangra artist.

You had no problem taking information from Peach and Black as gospel according to their supposed meeting with Prince.

Members of The Time have never been shy about referring to Big Brother when people ask them about things. But, tell me, did TimeWitnessNews or theoriginaltimeband ever comment about the rumors Prince has cockblocked their album?

Spinlight said:

Militant said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't that information come from a forum member who was paraphrasing something Jellybean allegedly said to them privately without providing any further evidence?

So THAT should be taken with a pinch of salt also and it's certainly a lot less authorative than the TimeWitnessNews account and the theoriginaltimeband website and twitter accounts which have been accurate in the past.

And I'm not a Bhangra artist.

You had no problem taking information from Peach and Black as gospel according to their supposed meeting with Prince.

Members of The Time have never been shy about referring to Big Brother when people ask them about things. But, tell me, did TimeWitnessNews or theoriginaltimeband ever comment about the rumors Prince has cockblocked their album?

If that Peach & Black thing was fabricated those guys are the best damn liars I've ever heard. They went into every last detail, including the location, the name of the person on Prince's team that they were in contact with, and the people present at the interview including Stephen Hill of BET. And nobody would come up with that anecdote about Tony M and Jim Crow if they were just bullshitting. Come on now. Those guys take what they do very seriously and not only would they not make that shit up, you couldn't make it up in that detail. So without any evidence that suggests they did fabricate it - I'm more than inclined to believe then.

Who do you mean when you say "members"? Morris and Jerome have been on good terms with P as recently as 2008 at Coachella. There's no evidence that Jellybean said anything. Has Jimmy said anything? Monte? Terry? Jesse? Who are we talking about here?

There's never been any substantial evidence to support this story about Prince cockblocking their album. The Time haven't released an album for 21 years. "Old Dogs, New Tricks" was finished in 1999, WITH Prince's involvement and the band chose not to release it. But just because they did that thing at the Grammys with Rihanna and those shows in Vegas where they mentioned doing new material in the promo, all of a sudden the lack of an album means that Prince is cockblocking them? I don't get the correlation. Folks always want to blame Prince for every damn thing around here.

Militant said:

Spinlight said:

You had no problem taking information from Peach and Black as gospel according to their supposed meeting with Prince.

Members of The Time have never been shy about referring to Big Brother when people ask them about things. But, tell me, did TimeWitnessNews or theoriginaltimeband ever comment about the rumors Prince has cockblocked their album?

If that Peach & Black thing was fabricated those guys are the best damn liars I've ever heard. They went into every last detail, including the location, the name of the person on Prince's team that they were in contact with, and the people present at the interview including Stephen Hill of BET. And nobody would come up with that anecdote about Tony M and Jim Crow if they were just bullshitting. Come on now. Those guys take what they do very seriously and not only would they not make that shit up, you couldn't make it up in that detail. So without any evidence that suggests they did fabricate it - I'm more than inclined to believe then.

Who do you mean when you say "members"? Morris and Jerome have been on good terms with P as recently as 2008 at Coachella. There's no evidence that Jellybean said anything. Has Jimmy said anything? Monte? Terry? Jesse? Who are we talking about here?

There's never been any substantial evidence to support this story about Prince cockblocking their album. The Time haven't released an album for 21 years. "Old Dogs, New Tricks" was finished in 1999, WITH Prince's involvement and the band chose not to release it. But just because they did that thing at the Grammys with Rihanna and those shows in Vegas where they mentioned doing new material in the promo, all of a sudden the lack of an album means that Prince is cockblocking them? I don't get the correlation. Folks always want to blame Prince for every damn thing around here.

sort of goes with his general behaviour. After a while people assume the worst - true or not.

Spinlight said:

cbarnes3121 said:

i dont get it how there could be sooo much beef quest love said that the orginal time played at prince house during the 3121 times this was when they did the grammies. no matter what people think prince is a big part of the time its his creation not morris ,jesse jerome, jimmy none of them they all came alone after the album was done so u can say prince and morris is the time far as records concerned

Jellybean Johnson was the last (read: most recent) member of the original Time lineup who has suggested Prince was involved in blocking the Time's new record. This isn't new news and no matter what kinda PR hype trickles down from the MPLS scene to Bhangra UK artists is to be taken with a pinch of salt.

seems like somebody lying cuz when if they reallly wantd 2 release that album they could under morris day name or any group member name or just come up with a new name.ive heard jimmy.terry and morris speak and they dont sound unhappy with prince. i dont see how somebody inviting people on a tour or has them performing at his houseparties could be on bad terms with him.but look at shelia e she been releasing music every since he never blocked her name she said prince was the one who labeled her shelia e instead of using her whole name.rosie gaines still releasing if the time wanted 2 do something they could of by now stop blaming prince and look at them

Militant said:

/\ I didn't say it was illogical. It's perfectly logical. But some people on this site want to pretend there's some sort of beef.

oh

Militant said:

That SPIN article is old, there wasn't THAT much said, and it could have been said in a joking manner.

Also the other issue with 'Bean is that he's a member of The Family/FDeluxe, who as it's been confirmed, have an issue with Prince as he won't let them use the name "The Family".

You simply CANNOT compare the two situations, because one band is still, to the best of our knowledge "cool" (pun intended ) with Prince....... and the other contains his ex-fiance (Susannah) and a man who he had a major falling out with and has not even spoken to since 1986 (Paul).

Again....there is ZERO evidence of there being any issues between Prince and The Time.... in fact quite the opposite.

Is wondering if I should keep my mouth shut or not

The discussions on this thread are very heated. It's a pleasure seeing such a passionate debate between music lovers....especially when we're speaking of The Time and our legacy.

The album, our NEW album, is being polished and prepped for The Time seal of approval.

It's great to see everyone has enjoyed the concerts The Time (original 7) has been performing since 2008. It's a pleasure spending Time with fans and our comrades in music. That story will be told when The Time is right....

We only post here when we have something relevant to say....

Beyond that let's enjoy the celebration that is 30 Years of "The Time"

This Time is special to us and we hope it will be special to you too

TimeWitnessNews said:

The discussions on this thread are very heated. It's a pleasure seeing such a passionate debate between music lovers....especially when we're speaking of The Time and our legacy.

The album, our NEW album, is being polished and prepped for The Time seal of approval.

It's great to see everyone has enjoyed the concerts The Time (original 7) has been performing since 2008. It's a pleasure spending Time with fans and our comrades in music. That story will be told when The Time is right....

We only post here when we have something relevant to say....

Beyond that let's enjoy the celebration that is 30 Years of "The Time"

This Time is special to us and we hope it will be special to you too

All I wanna know is when are they going to start performing on the east coast?! You know, maybe some small venues in the larger markets, at least initially. There ain't no party like a (the original) Time party!

Shit, I'd rather see The Original Time Band live than Prince right now!

TimeWitnessNews said:

The discussions on this thread are very heated. It's a pleasure seeing such a passionate debate between music lovers....especially when we're speaking of The Time and our legacy.

The album, our NEW album, is being polished and prepped for The Time seal of approval.

It's great to see everyone has enjoyed the concerts The Time (original 7) has been performing since 2008. It's a pleasure spending Time with fans and our comrades in music. That story will be told when The Time is right....

We only post here when we have something relevant to say....

Beyond that let's enjoy the celebration that is 30 Years of "The Time"

This Time is special to us and we hope it will be special to you too

Thanks for the update!! Can't wait!!!

TimeWitnessNews said:

The discussions on this thread are very heated. It's a pleasure seeing such a passionate debate between music lovers....especially when we're speaking of The Time and our legacy.

The album, our NEW album, is being polished and prepped for The Time seal of approval.

It's great to see everyone has enjoyed the concerts The Time (original 7) has been performing since 2008. It's a pleasure spending Time with fans and our comrades in music. That story will be told when The Time is right....

We only post here when we have something relevant to say....

Beyond that let's enjoy the celebration that is 30 Years of "The Time"

This Time is special to us and we hope it will be special to you too

was hoping 2 c U brothas step out as the opening act, last Thursday night since Prince took so long from 7:30(on the ticket)2 cum out until after 9pm. am crossing my fingers that it will happen soon.

heard Jimmy Jam was @ Janet's show Thursday night so mayb that was the hold up. Can't wait 4 the new album. know it will b worth the wait....

Ur shows in Vegas was the best per4mance of an r&b band ever heard & saw live. The songs sounded better live....The choreography was on point & in sync with the playing & singing @ the same time 2...

[Edited 4/16/11 15:30pm]

Militant said:

That SPIN article is old, there wasn't THAT much said, and it could have been said in a joking manner.

Also the other issue with 'Bean is that he's a member of The Family/FDeluxe, who as it's been confirmed, have an issue with Prince as he won't let them use the name "The Family".

You simply CANNOT compare the two situations, because one band is still, to the best of our knowledge "cool" (pun intended ) with Prince....... and the other contains his ex-fiance (Susannah) and a man who he had a major falling out with and has not even spoken to since 1986 (Paul).

Again....there is ZERO evidence of there being any issues between Prince and The Time.... in fact quite the opposite.

SMH. Psychophantic much? Like I said, the news ain't new. It's BEEN that way. And that article was from not even 2 years ago.

Old my ass. Bro, you are trying so hard to get in the wrong graces. You ain't Mani 2.0. Let it go.

TimeWitnessNews said:

The discussions on this thread are very heated. It's a pleasure seeing such a passionate debate between music lovers....especially when we're speaking of The Time and our legacy.

The album, our NEW album, is being polished and prepped for The Time seal of approval.

It's great to see everyone has enjoyed the concerts The Time (original 7) has been performing since 2008. It's a pleasure spending Time with fans and our comrades in music. That story will be told when The Time is right....

We only post here when we have something relevant to say....

Beyond that let's enjoy the celebration that is 30 Years of "The Time"

This Time is special to us and we hope it will be special to you too

So much better when it is from the HORSE'S mouth.

Militant said:

That SPIN article is old, there wasn't THAT much said, and it could have been said in a joking manner.

Also the other issue with 'Bean is that he's a member of The Family/FDeluxe, who as it's been confirmed, have an issue with Prince as he won't let them use the name "The Family".

You simply CANNOT compare the two situations, because one band is still, to the best of our knowledge "cool" (pun intended ) with Prince....... and the other contains his ex-fiance (Susannah) and a man who he had a major falling out with and has not even spoken to since 1986 (Paul).

Again....there is ZERO evidence of there being any issues between Prince and The Time.... in fact quite the opposite.

I manage fDeluxe and occasionally post news on here bios and releases on the group (the new CD release date - and partners - will be announced shortly btw). It's great to see such passionate debate but so often what is being spoke of as "true" is just not.

You state that Paul and Prince have not spoken since 1986 ... that is completely false. Paul and Prince have spoken a few times since then (he was actually working with his brother Ricky for long periods at Paisley) re The Family name and also his availability as a touring bass player. Paul has no beef with Prince at all. Speaking on the group's behalf I can say we all admire and respect his musical genius. The business "issues" I am dealing with his camp on as a manager are 2 separate issues ... names and trademarks etc are very grey issues and unless one is privvy to the whole situation you cannot comment.

Square1entertainment said:

Militant said:

That SPIN article is old, there wasn't THAT much said, and it could have been said in a joking manner.

Also the other issue with 'Bean is that he's a member of The Family/FDeluxe, who as it's been confirmed, have an issue with Prince as he won't let them use the name "The Family".

You simply CANNOT compare the two situations, because one band is still, to the best of our knowledge "cool" (pun intended ) with Prince....... and the other contains his ex-fiance (Susannah) and a man who he had a major falling out with and has not even spoken to since 1986 (Paul).

Again....there is ZERO evidence of there being any issues between Prince and The Time.... in fact quite the opposite.

I manage fDeluxe and occasionally post news on here bios and releases on the group (the new CD release date - and partners - will be announced shortly btw). It's great to see such passionate debate but so often what is being spoke of as "true" is just not.

You state that Paul and Prince have not spoken since 1986 ... that is completely false. Paul and Prince have spoken a few times since then (he was actually working with his brother Ricky for long periods at Paisley) re The Family name and also his availability as a touring bass player. Paul has no beef with Prince at all. Speaking on the group's behalf I can say we all admire and respect his musical genius. The business "issues" I am dealing with his camp on as a manager are 2 separate issues ... names and trademarks etc are very grey issues and unless one is privvy to the whole situation you cannot comment.

Thanks for your input and I'm looking forward to the album.

Regarding the bolded part - it's not something I would just make up for shits and giggles:

and I did know that Prince worked with Ricky at various points particularly in the 90s.

I don't believe that there's any beef, but what exactly are you referring to when you say "unless you are privy to the whole situation you cannot comment?"

Because it seems pretty clear to me. They can't use the name "The Family" because Prince has the trademark. So they changed it to F Deluxe.

Is there really anything more to it?

Square1entertainment said:

Militant said:

That SPIN article is old, there wasn't THAT much said, and it could have been said in a joking manner.

Also the other issue with 'Bean is that he's a member of The Family/FDeluxe, who as it's been confirmed, have an issue with Prince as he won't let them use the name "The Family".

You simply CANNOT compare the two situations, because one band is still, to the best of our knowledge "cool" (pun intended ) with Prince....... and the other contains his ex-fiance (Susannah) and a man who he had a major falling out with and has not even spoken to since 1986 (Paul).

Again....there is ZERO evidence of there being any issues between Prince and The Time.... in fact quite the opposite.

I manage fDeluxe and occasionally post news on here bios and releases on the group (the new CD release date - and partners - will be announced shortly btw). It's great to see such passionate debate but so often what is being spoke of as "true" is just not.

You state that Paul and Prince have not spoken since 1986 ... that is completely false. Paul and Prince have spoken a few times since then (he was actually working with his brother Ricky for long periods at Paisley) re The Family name and also his availability as a touring bass player. Paul has no beef with Prince at all. Speaking on the group's behalf I can say we all admire and respect his musical genius. The business "issues" I am dealing with his camp on as a manager are 2 separate issues ... names and trademarks etc are very grey issues and unless one is privvy to the whole situation you cannot comment.

Even with yor response here........some folks just don't understand that the speculation is POINTLESS.

interesting thread! Looks like a few mysteries have been solved.

Militant said:

Square1entertainment said:

I manage fDeluxe and occasionally post news on here bios and releases on the group (the new CD release date - and partners - will be announced shortly btw). It's great to see such passionate debate but so often what is being spoke of as "true" is just not.

You state that Paul and Prince have not spoken since 1986 ... that is completely false. Paul and Prince have spoken a few times since then (he was actually working with his brother Ricky for long periods at Paisley) re The Family name and also his availability as a touring bass player. Paul has no beef with Prince at all. Speaking on the group's behalf I can say we all admire and respect his musical genius. The business "issues" I am dealing with his camp on as a manager are 2 separate issues ... names and trademarks etc are very grey issues and unless one is privvy to the whole situation you cannot comment.

Thanks for your input and I'm looking forward to the album.

Regarding the bolded part - it's not something I would just make up for shits and giggles:

and I did know that Prince worked with Ricky at various points particularly in the 90s.

I don't believe that there's any beef, but what exactly are you referring to when you say "unless you are privy to the whole situation you cannot comment?"

Because it seems pretty clear to me. They can't use the name "The Family" because Prince has the trademark. So they changed it to F Deluxe.

Is there really anything more to it?

Yes, there is. And re the trademark, unfortunately you are also misinformed.

OK - how much more is there to it?

And what am I misinformed about regarding the trademark?

Anybody can say anything on the internet - where's your evidence? Here's mine.

The TMQuest trademark website shows that Prince (as Paisley Park Enterprises), owns the trademark to the name "The Family" in relation to:

Musical sound recordings, musical video recordings
025 - Men, women and children's clothing, namely, shirts, sweatshirts, pants, shorts, loungewear, sleepwear, sweaters, underwear, headwear and footwear, all of the foregoing relating to a musical band
041 - Entertainment services, namely live musical performances by a musical group; entertainment services, namely, providing online entertainment information about recording artists and musical groups; recording studios; record production; music production; music publishing

Here's the link - http://www.tmquest.com/77792684.htm

He filed on July 29, 2009, and the status is live.

Again, this corresponds to what Wendy/Lisa said, as seen here:

^It's a huge call to suggest that because of "evidence" you've seen on the internet (twitter, etc...), you know the whole story.

We can all get caught up in things at times - figuring that it's cut and dried, that we have all the answers. I've caught myself doing it on many occasions. But I can't believe that this situation would not already be resolved it if were as simple as it seems from the outside.

Is there a difference between the name as a name and the name as a trademark? It may sound funny, but I know from my own business that it can be a really tricky area.

I don't think Square1entertainment is necessarily suggesting that what you've seen said about it by the likes of Wendy and Lisa is not true, but that perhaps that there's more to the situation than can be explained in 140 characters on a public forum.

They themselves stated this in another thread recently (http://prince.org/msg/5/3...?&pg=3, Jan '11):

Square1entertainment said:

Rhastus said:

Ok

Prince owns the name. That's the main thing that's holding it up. Yes they can and may eventually release it under something else, but when you have a 30 year legacy as the Time you tend to want to put it out as that.

Correct. Same as fDeluxe and The Family.

So presumably it's what else is in the mix that creates the complexity, not that the information that appears to be coming from various horses' mouths is incorrect, per se.

That's my take on it, in any case.

Ultimately, unless we're sitting in the meetings and are privvy to the whole situation (or at least a substantial part of it), we're almost certainly not going to have a clear picture of what's going on and, furthermore, have no reason to have said picture because at the end of the day, it's none of our business.

That goes for Prince's working relationship with The Time, The Family/fDeluxe and all of Prince's legal dealings for that matter.

Of course we'd love to know (particularly in these sorts of situations where music we want to hear seems to be what's hanging in the balance), but I think we just need to sit tight and trust that one way or the other, these guys will be able to work something out.

[Edited 4/17/11 19:13pm]

/\ Oh, I wasn't implying I know the whole story. The questions I asked at the beginning of the post were legitimate questions, not sarcastic remarks.

I said Prince owns the trademark and won't let them use it. Square1 said I was misinformed regarding the trademark. I provided factual evidence that Prince owns the trademark (as proven by the TMQuest filing) and evidence from people familiar with the matter that Prince won't let them use it.

I accept there may be more to the story but I don't understand which part I'm misinformed about. Prince DOES own the trademark and the legal proof is right there in the filing.

There may well be an ongoing discussion about the possibility of them using the name, but as it stands at this moment in time, Prince owns it.

Militant said:

/\ Oh, I wasn't implying I know the whole story. The questions I asked at the beginning of the post were legitimate questions, not sarcastic remarks.

I said Prince owns the trademark and won't let them use it. Square1 said I was misinformed regarding the trademark. I provided factual evidence that Prince owns the trademark (as proven by the TMQuest filing) and evidence from people familiar with the matter that Prince won't let them use it.

I accept there may be more to the story but I don't understand which part I'm misinformed about. Prince DOES own the trademark and the legal proof is right there in the filing.

There may well be an ongoing discussion about the possibility of them using the name, but as it stands at this moment in time, Prince owns it.

As everyone on this site has been so supportive (not to mention patient) on the subject of the group I will respond once as a matter of courtesy.

What you have quoted is a filing APPLICATION by someone who wishes to own that trademark (i.e the owner) and not an approval. I am VERY familiar with this case and can categorically state that the paperwork you are stating is not an approval (or non approval) at all. Once the band starts doing press in July and August you will get the full story ... we have nothing to hide, unlike other parties.

Militant said:

/\ Oh, I wasn't implying I know the whole story. The questions I asked at the beginning of the post were legitimate questions, not sarcastic remarks.

I said Prince owns the trademark and won't let them use it. Square1 said I was misinformed regarding the trademark. I provided factual evidence that Prince owns the trademark (as proven by the TMQuest filing) and evidence from people familiar with the matter that Prince won't let them use it.

I accept there may be more to the story but I don't understand which part I'm misinformed about. Prince DOES own the trademark and the legal proof is right there in the filing.

There may well be an ongoing discussion about the possibility of them using the name, but as it stands at this moment in time, Prince owns it.

Dude - a "filing" does not make for a trademark. It has to be approved. If you want credibility in life you need to know what " I provided factual evidence .." means. You provided evidence of a filing, but apparently have no idea what weight that has legally.

NONE.

I could FILE to trademark the name Star Wars. But unless I get it approved I don't own it. Do your homework before you spout such certainty.

Hmmm.

The TMQuest website says the filing is LIVE. Other filed trademarks are stated as DEAD.

Surely if Prince's trademark was not approved it would not state that the trademark is LIVE?

Zannaloaf - I have done my homework. If you COULD file a trademark for Star Wars, go ahead and do it and let's see if you can get to the point where the trademark registration is LIVE. Betcha can't.

Anyway, we'll wait and see. If there was a chance of them reclaiming the name in the first place, then why change it to FDeluxe?

^The application is presumably live because the matter is still open (ie. if it were rejected outright, perhaps then it would be dead).

If you click on "Legal Status" from your link you see this - http://tarr.uspto.gov/ser...y=77792684

That page has more information about the status of the application including this line:

Current Status: Suspension check completed. Application remains suspended.

I realise it looks obvious to you, but I would imagine it would be immensely frustrating for people who have put hours upon hours of work and no doubt, a lot of emotional energy, into this process, only to be told (effectively) that they are wrong by a fan on a Prince forum because there's a website somewhere on the interwebs that, on first glance, seems to say so.

FWIW (not much ), my current theory is that Prince doesn't necessarily have the legal right to own The Family name, but has enough grounds and enough legal support to tie it up long enough for The [actual] Family to give in and use a different name (as they perhaps can't use it while an application is pending), sort of like a fairly mean-spirited game of Trademark Chicken.

But that's just a wild theory, of course. No evidence to speak of

That's fair, Chiquetet.

But the fact that the status has not changed in over 2 years seems to be quite telling.

seriously, this thread has gone down geek alley!. I'm sure we all want The original Time to come back soon [they have too much talent to rely on P - it's great to have him involved BUT they still b funky without him!]. Whatever the issue is lets hope it gets sorted soon.

people can say what they want but these are all groups prince created not wendy or lisa, jimmy jam none of them they have 2 go by his flow when warner signed thoses deals they were made with prince not paul,susanahh, morris none of em they were all signed through prince production company so if they want the name but it from him.if they had control over it jimmy and terry wouldnt have had 2 leave the time prince fired them not morris they knew what they were involved with them so everybody can stop bitching now cuz prince owns he dont owe morris wendy paul none of them nothing