For those who wonder what The Time would sound like without Prince, they should be reminded to find FISHNET and LOVE IS A GAME on Morris' DAYDREAMING ALBUM. Everyone (except Monte) is on the tracks and it is an indication of where Jam/Lewis might take The Time without Prince's input.

Granted, LOVE IS A GAME isn't a great song, but in all honesty, I haven't really liked most of the slower Time songs because they just seem forced. The Time is a party band who brings the thunder and the attitude, but the slow songs just screech to a halt the party atmosphere.

Either way, if you like those two tracks, you'd enjoy The Time without Prince. Personally, I think that Fishnet is one of the best tracks by Morris Day. It is as good as a lot of official stuff by The Time.

I believe half of the songs on Pandemonium are 'The Time without Prince':

Pandemonium

Blondie

Skillet

It's Your World

Sometimes I Get Lonely

Is it correct that Prince had no input on these tracks? I like all these songs. The only song on the album I don't like so much is Prince's "Data Bank".

Of the four Time albums released, this is the only real one to me.

^ Yes, none of these have Prince involvement. Pandemonium, Blondie and Skillet are some of The Time's best material IMO - ALL no Prince involvement.

Except for Chocolate and Jerk Out (both old tracks incidently), Prince's contribution to Pandemonium is pretty lame.

Remember, The Time were always a real band, Prince just had to have full control of the records - They were always great musicians.

Okay so add "Love Is A Game" and the 12" version of "Fishnet" to the above five Pandemonium tracks, that will give you seven, enough for an old school Time album, but without Prince.

I'd still listen to that over Ice Cream Castle.

NouveauDance said:

Except for Chocolate and Jerk Out (both old tracks incidently), Prince's contribution to Pandemonium is pretty lame.

Well, remember Prince had done the full Corporate World album and WB insisted that they wanted the original members involved in writing, hence Pandemonium.

I adore Fishnet, btw.

vitriol said:

WB insisted that they wanted the original members involved in writing, hence Pandemonium.

Thank goodness for that.

madhouseman said:

For those who wonder what The Time would sound like without Prince, they should be reminded to find FISHNET and LOVE IS A GAME on Morris' DAYDREAMING ALBUM. Everyone (except Monte) is on the tracks and it is an indication of where Jam/Lewis might take The Time without Prince's input.

Granted, LOVE IS A GAME isn't a great song, but in all honesty, I haven't really liked most of the slower Time songs because they just seem forced. The Time is a party band who brings the thunder and the attitude, but the slow songs just screech to a halt the party atmosphere.

Either way, if you like those two tracks, you'd enjoy The Time without Prince. Personally, I think that Fishnet is one of the best tracks by Morris Day. It is as good as a lot of official stuff by The Time.

Listen to Alexander O'Neal's album Hearsay or the production values of Janet Jackson's album Control - is very easy to hear the direction a The Time 1980s post-Prince album would have taken. Fishnet in my opinion is the definitive non-Time Morris Day track. The unreleased Chuckii Booker produced 'Old School' by Morris is also testament to what might have been.

Is a shame the current touring version of Morris Day & The Time are little more than a cabaret act playing a set that has changed little in staging since the dates the original line up performed circa the release of Pandemonium.

I was front row centre when they played the Hammersmith Odeon in London - forty five minutes of funk. The legacy of this great band deserves a better ending. For that alone I hope the new album is released. Somebody bring me a mirror.

Re Pandemonium, I hope that that album is not any indication of what a Time album without Prince would sound like, because by FAR the only good songs were Chocolate and Jerk Out.

And by "FAR' I mean, that without those two songs, saying that album would suck is being really really kind.

[Edited 2/11/11 11:37am]

V10LETBLUES said:

Re Pandemonium, I hope that that album is not any indication of what a Time album without Prince would sound like, because by FAR the only good songs were Chocolate and Jerk Out.

And by "FAR' I mean, that without those two songs, saying that album would suck is being really really kind.

Then I suggest you stay far away from this new album if it ever gets released because with Jimmy, Terry, Monte and Jesse doing production, more songs like the non-Prince Pandemonium tracks are what you'll get. Which suits me just fine, I love those songs. I listened to the album again yesterday because of this thread. Love it--the only REAL Time album.

V10LETBLUES said:

Re Pandemonium, I hope that that album is not any indication of what a Time album without Prince would sound like, because by FAR the only good songs were Chocolate and Jerk Out.

And by "FAR' I mean, that without those two songs, saying that album would suck is being really really kind.

[Edited 2/11/11 11:37am]

Please

Blondie and Skillet are two of the best songs the group ever did

V10LETBLUES said:

Re Pandemonium, I hope that that album is not any indication of what a Time album without Prince would sound like, because by FAR the only good songs were Chocolate and Jerk Out.

And by "FAR' I mean, that without those two songs, saying that album would suck is being really really kind.

[Edited 2/11/11 11:37am]

From my perspective those were D Sides that Prince never used for himself.

I've hear most of Corporate World...and it was , how do you say....meh. Mostly plain old uninspired. If nothing else I think new stuff with the original guys would bring all their A games...and those are pretty strong games.

sextonseven said:

V10LETBLUES said:

Re Pandemonium, I hope that that album is not any indication of what a Time album without Prince would sound like, because by FAR the only good songs were Chocolate and Jerk Out.

And by "FAR' I mean, that without those two songs, saying that album would suck is being really really kind.

Then I suggest you stay far away from this new album if it ever gets released because with Jimmy, Terry, Monte and Jesse doing production, more songs like the non-Prince Pandemonium tracks are what you'll get. Which suits me just fine, I love those songs. I listened to the album again yesterday because of this thread. Love it--the only REAL Time album.

Wow. Blondie and Skillet showed me how amazing the band could be if they were allowed to let it rip. I would enjoy an album of nothing but songs like Blondie, Skillet, Pandemonium and Fishnet. That would be amazing.

madhouseman said:

sextonseven said:

Then I suggest you stay far away from this new album if it ever gets released because with Jimmy, Terry, Monte and Jesse doing production, more songs like the non-Prince Pandemonium tracks are what you'll get. Which suits me just fine, I love those songs. I listened to the album again yesterday because of this thread. Love it--the only REAL Time album.

Wow. Blondie and Skillet showed me how amazing the band could be if they were allowed to let it rip. I would enjoy an album of nothing but songs like Blondie, Skillet, Pandemonium and Fishnet. That would be amazing.

I agree, I've heard great guitar solos by Prince and Jesse on earlier Time albums, but I never thought the Time could rock like they did on Pandemonium. It was a breath of fresh air.

sextonseven said:

V10LETBLUES said:

Re Pandemonium, I hope that that album is not any indication of what a Time album without Prince would sound like, because by FAR the only good songs were Chocolate and Jerk Out.

And by "FAR' I mean, that without those two songs, saying that album would suck is being really really kind.

Then I suggest you stay far away from this new album if it ever gets released because with Jimmy, Terry, Monte and Jesse doing production, more songs like the non-Prince Pandemonium tracks are what you'll get. Which suits me just fine, I love those songs. I listened to the album again yesterday because of this thread. Love it--the only REAL Time album.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I sincerely hope any album they eventually realase is great, and I'll check it out regardless of Prince Involvement. Jimmy & Terry's "Just Be Good To Me" for the SOS band is one of my all-time favorite songs. And I love the work they did for Janet's "Control" I know they can create great tracks.

Still, Blondie & Skillet are ok tunes, but throwaways just the same. They sound like generic rock tracks. To me other than the playing, the compositions are by the numbers. The same cannot be said about Chocolate & Jerk Out, you listen to them now, and they still stand out like a lemurs among pigeons.

Even in his lesser works, Prince is able to lift his leg and leave his scent all over his music, making his tracks with his unmistakable pungent funk easily stand out among the noise. I am not trying to be dismissive of anyone, but the guys in the band, as well as most all the record buying public will agree.

[Edited 2/11/11 15:20pm]

V10LETBLUES said:

sextonseven said:

Then I suggest you stay far away from this new album if it ever gets released because with Jimmy, Terry, Monte and Jesse doing production, more songs like the non-Prince Pandemonium tracks are what you'll get. Which suits me just fine, I love those songs. I listened to the album again yesterday because of this thread. Love it--the only REAL Time album.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I sincerely hope any album they eventually realase is great, and I'll check it out regardless of Prince Involvement. Jimmy & Terry's "Just Be Good To Me" for the SOS band is one of my all-time favorite songs. And I love the work they did for Janet's "Control" I know they can create great tracks.

Still, Blondie & Skillet are ok tunes, but throwaways just the same. They sound like generic rock tracks. To me other than the playing, the compositions are by the numbers. The same cannot be said about Chocolate & Jerk Out, you listen to them now, and they still stand out like a lemurs among pigeons.

Even in his lesser works, Prince is able to lift his leg and leave his scent all over his music, making his tracks with his unmistakable pungent funk easily stand out among the noise. I am not trying to be dismissive of anyone, but the guys in the band, as well as most all the record buying public will agree.

[Edited 2/11/11 15:20pm]

The Time is neither The SOS Band nor Janet Jackson so tracks Jam & Lewis create for them will not sound like ones they will contribute to The Time--different artists, different sounds even from the same producers.

I don't think "Donald Trump (Black Version)" or "Data Bank" stand out at all from the other tracks--not musically anyway. I like Pandemonium more than any Prince album released in the last 20 years so his "pungent funk" is something I haven't smelled in a long time.

sextonseven said:

his "pungent funk" is something I haven't smelled in a long time.

I agree, and in the same vein, the same can be said about J&T and Morris and.....

sextonseven said:

V10LETBLUES said:

Thanks for the suggestion.

I sincerely hope any album they eventually realase is great, and I'll check it out regardless of Prince Involvement. Jimmy & Terry's "Just Be Good To Me" for the SOS band is one of my all-time favorite songs. And I love the work they did for Janet's "Control" I know they can create great tracks.

Still, Blondie & Skillet are ok tunes, but throwaways just the same. They sound like generic rock tracks. To me other than the playing, the compositions are by the numbers. The same cannot be said about Chocolate & Jerk Out, you listen to them now, and they still stand out like a lemurs among pigeons.

Even in his lesser works, Prince is able to lift his leg and leave his scent all over his music, making his tracks with his unmistakable pungent funk easily stand out among the noise. I am not trying to be dismissive of anyone, but the guys in the band, as well as most all the record buying public will agree.

[Edited 2/11/11 15:20pm]

The Time is neither The SOS Band nor Janet Jackson so tracks Jam & Lewis create for them will not sound like ones they will contribute to The Time--different artists, different sounds even from the same producers.

I don't think "Donald Trump (Black Version)" or "Data Bank" stand out at all from the other tracks--not musically anyway. I like Pandemonium more than any Prince album released in the last 20 years so his "pungent funk" is something I haven't smelled in a long time.

OMG I hadn't boiled it down to that simple fact but you are totally correct. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a Prince album that AS A WHOLE was better than Pandemonium. Wow. That is crazy when it is put like that, but you are right. Since 1991, I can't think of a Prince album that I liked better.

sextonseven said:

I believe half of the songs on Pandemonium are 'The Time without Prince':

Pandemonium

Blondie

Skillet

It's Your World

Sometimes I Get Lonely

Is it correct that Prince had no input on these tracks? I like all these songs. The only song on the album I don't like so much is Prince's "Data Bank".

Of the four Time albums released, this is the only real one to me.

I would add Jerk Out to the list, because the Prince version is a lot darker and not in any way a funny/party type song like The Time's version. Prince's "Corporate World" and "Graffitti Bridge" Time tracks are extremely weak in my opinion. Prince post-1987 Black Album nervous breakdown is just rarely all that interesting to me. I think The Time can do best without his involvement. Prince likely knows that, and that is why he's screwing around about allowing them to release anything.

[Edited 2/11/11 20:27pm]

V10LETBLUES said:

sextonseven said:

his "pungent funk" is something I haven't smelled in a long time.

I agree, and in the same vein, the same can be said about J&T and Morris and.....

I don't hold Morris Day to the same standards as Prince, Jam & Lewis and Jesse. He's not as talented as a producer as they are.

sextonseven said:

V10LETBLUES said:

I agree, and in the same vein, the same can be said about J&T and Morris and.....

I don't hold Morris Day to the same standards as Prince, Jam & Lewis and Jesse. He's not as talented as a producer as they are.

And as much as Prince's output has slid in his old age, I do not hold J&T or Jesse anywhere near as talented as Prince. For whatever the man is right now, he will be remembered as one of America's greatest artists of all time.

V10LETBLUES said:

sextonseven said:

I don't hold Morris Day to the same standards as Prince, Jam & Lewis and Jesse. He's not as talented as a producer as they are.

And as much as Prince's output has slid in his old age, I do not hold J&T or Jesse anywhere near as talented as Prince. For whatever the man is right now, he will be remembered as one of America's greatest artists of all time.

When it comes to tracks that they contributed to The Time's four released albums, they are all on the same level to me.

sextonseven said:

V10LETBLUES said:

And as much as Prince's output has slid in his old age, I do not hold J&T or Jesse anywhere near as talented as Prince. For whatever the man is right now, he will be remembered as one of America's greatest artists of all time.

When it comes to tracks that they contributed to The Time's four released albums, they are all on the same level to me.

OK, you lost me there.

I thought Prince more or less wrote and produced just about everything on the classic Time albums.

To say that Pandemonium is on par with the first three albums,......um, I disagree, but more than that...I am at a loss for words.

V10LETBLUES said:

sextonseven said:

When it comes to tracks that they contributed to The Time's four released albums, they are all on the same level to me.

OK, you lost me there.

I thought Prince more or less wrote and produced just about everything on the classic Time albums.

To say that Pandemonium is on par with the first three albums,......um, I disagree, but more than that...I am at a loss for words.

Pandemonium is 100x better than Ice Cream Castle. I like it a lot more than the first Time album as well. As for the individual songs themselves--"Wild and Loose" vs. "Pandemonium", "I Don't Wanna Leave You" vs. "It's Your World", "Girl" vs. "Sometimes I Get Lonely" for example--I don't think any one is so much better than the other.

sextonseven said:

V10LETBLUES said:

OK, you lost me there.

I thought Prince more or less wrote and produced just about everything on the classic Time albums.

To say that Pandemonium is on par with the first three albums,......um, I disagree, but more than that...I am at a loss for words.

Pandemonium is 100x better than Ice Cream Castle. I like it a lot more than the first Time album as well. As for the individual songs themselves--"Wild and Loose" vs. "Pandemonium", "I Don't Wanna Leave You" vs. "It's Your World", "Girl" vs. "Sometimes I Get Lonely" for example--I don't think any one is so much better than the other.

Ok, I have nothing else to say. I think that says it all and sums up our differences in music. After all music is subjective, it's all just a matter of taste.

V10LETBLUES said:

sextonseven said:

When it comes to tracks that they contributed to The Time's four released albums, they are all on the same level to me.

OK, you lost me there.

I thought Prince more or less wrote and produced just about everything on the classic Time albums.

To say that Pandemonium is on par with the first three albums,......um, I disagree, but more than that...I am at a loss for words.

more or less. Sort of like everything from that artistic period he did. He had a lot of great influences and friends around him he worked with - credited or not. I'm not trying to diminish what Prince has accomplished, just that it is clear back then he had people around whose ears he trusted and had influence. Which should never be discounted.

In other words, he didn't create this stuff in a bubble.

I think Pandemonium has moments that are as good as the first three. Frankly except for Jungle Love and The Bird (and Ice Cream Castles...a bit) I almost never listened to the third album. Seemed like a contractual obligation.

Zannaloaf said:

more or less. Sort of like everything from that artistic period he did. He had a lot of great influences and friends around him he worked with - credited or not. I'm not trying to diminish what Prince has accomplished, just that it is clear back then he had people around whose ears he trusted and had influence. Which should never be discounted.

In other words, he didn't create this stuff in a bubble.

I think Pandemonium has moments that are as good as the first three. Frankly except for Jungle Love and The Bird (and Ice Cream Castles...a bit) I almost never listened to the third album. Seemed like a contractual obligation.

I get where you are coming from and agree with most of it, but honestly, I almost always forget there was another album after Ice Cream Castles until someone mentions Jerk Out and Chocolate.

I also do not consider Ice Cream Castles better than the first two, but to me definitely much much better than Pandemonium.

Besides the tracks you mentioned, to me My Drawers is a minor classic. If we were going to about talk Time rock tracks, to me this one wipes the floor with Skillet & Blondie. And far more original too.

[Edited 2/12/11 15:51pm]

V10LETBLUES said:

Zannaloaf said:

more or less. Sort of like everything from that artistic period he did. He had a lot of great influences and friends around him he worked with - credited or not. I'm not trying to diminish what Prince has accomplished, just that it is clear back then he had people around whose ears he trusted and had influence. Which should never be discounted.

In other words, he didn't create this stuff in a bubble.

I think Pandemonium has moments that are as good as the first three. Frankly except for Jungle Love and The Bird (and Ice Cream Castles...a bit) I almost never listened to the third album. Seemed like a contractual obligation.

I get where you are coming from and agree with most of it, but honestly, I almost always forget there was another album after Ice Cream Castles until someone mentions Jerk Out and Chocolate.

I also do not consider Ice Cream Castles better than the first two, but to me definitely much much better than Pandemonium.

Besides the tracks you mentioned, to me My Drawers is a minor classic. If we were going to about talk Time rock tracks, to me this one wipes the floor with Skillet & Blondie. And far more original too.

[Edited 2/12/11 15:51pm]

I love My Drawers. Best song on Ice Cream Castles and its better than Blondie(which I also love), But Skillet is from another planet, especially after you've seen Jesse play the solo live

[Edited 2/13/11 0:13am]

I was disappointed with 'Ice Cream Castles'.I like "My Drawers" but the other tunes aren't that great,imo.

Actually Ice Cream Castle is a pretty solid album. I like the tittle track, but does not fit the band though. It seems better suited as more of "Prince" Track.

But the remaining tracks have aged great. All are classics. I even love Chili Sauce.

The Bird & Jungle Love are undisputed classics

1. Ice Cream Castles
2. My Drawers
3. Chili Sauce
4. Jungle Love
5. If The Kid Can't Make You Come
6. The Bird



V10LETBLUES said:

Actually Ice Cream Castle is a pretty solid album. I like the tittle track, but does not fit the band though. It seems better suited as more of "Prince" Track.

But the remaining tracks have aged great. All are classics. I even love Chili Sauce.

The Bird & Jungle Love are undisputed classics

1. Ice Cream Castles
2. My Drawers
3. Chili Sauce
4. Jungle Love
5. If The Kid Can't Make You Come
6. The Bird



An overlong skit like "Chili Sauce" is a classic? Okay.