Bobby Z returned to acoustic drums after Purple rain tour
he used drum machine prominently during 1983-1985 tour period

He composed Rivers Run Dry
also

He composed Rivers Run Dry
also

he seemed a bit robotic to me. almost as if Prince said, play this, and then he did it.

whereas w/ the other drummers, you get a sense of more individuality coming through (perhaps because they were more on acoustic drums)

if you wanna hear how tight Bobby was on drums,just listen to Atlanta Omni 1980 live

Bobby is on 94 East wow
which trax?

What was the integral part of early P shows?
Bobby Z crazy drum programing during 1983-1986 period.
things he did in a live setting is much harder then
just sit there and play the drums.

and on Acoustic drums Bobby was very in the pocket drummer.
listen to Atlanta 1980 Rick James opening act show.
Bobby was killing it on the drums.

And his drum programming is still influental even today.
Very underrated musician

if you wanna hear how tight Bobby was on drums,just listen to Atlanta Omni 1980 live

thebanishedone said:

HOW? LOL
My first time seeing the revolution was the purple rain live DVD. Did he play at all during that show?

1982 pre 1999 1st Avenue show
is a very organic band and really shows
Bobby Z's skill and diversity

from a metal version of Bambi
to a hard rock pre album rel version of All the Critics Love U in NY
rockabilly When You Were Mine
funky Sexy Dancer
countryish-rnbish soulful Still Waiting
upbeat Head
new wave jungle Sexuality

Booby Z should never be confused as a great drummer or having any significant impact on any music.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Bobby wasn't even respected in the local music scene that much! Prince took a lot of flack for choosing Z over his cousin and Morris Day.

To me, Bobby is very unspectacular... has no memorable moments in any Prince recorded songs. Yeah, he's basically a cymbal crasher.

Prince was mainly behind his own drum song and programming -- Prince did "When Doves Cry" and "Dorthy Parker", not Z.

On songs like "Tambourine", "Life Can Be So Nice", and other songs where there was serious live drumming, either Sheila E. or Prince played the drums on those songs.

Booby Z should never be confused as a great drummer or having any significant impact on any music.

chopchop20 said:

U R way off, and must not be a real Prince fan, U obviously have never heard or been to any of the live shows from For U-Parade (NONE)

You say Prince was behind the drumming on songs like Dorothy Parker and When Doves Cry? that was a drum machine... even Prince couldn't play that live, yet Bobby Z did pretty good at the 1st Avenue show 6.7.1984 Sheila E used drum machine during the SOTT & Lovesexy tour too, When Doves Cry is not a good song live, the album cut is the killer

Bobby Z is really good, and in the early years Prince really didn't care for a spectacular drummer, (in Prince's music played live it takes away from the songs) U must not hear Prince's music because 99.9% of the songs drumming is repetitive, lots of linn usuage

Prince is good on the drums, but not 'spectacular' either

plus by the 3rd album he was using the band, and he still had his songs that he did completely himself
[Edited 9/10/09 17:09pm]

Still, Bobby was able to deliver a solid beat when performing live and being alert on stage which Prince gave him props for.
So he's merely a "servicable metronome" because he had his beat locked tight during gigs ? I'm shure many drummers here or elsewhere would've loved to step in a time machine and be there in Bobby's place.
We might as well say that neither of The Revolution had any innovative or spectacular input when recordng in the studio, because Prince mainly did most of the performing on record by himself anyway.
So a musician is only aknowlegded and appreciated when they have a required ceritficate to be "innovative" ?,
otherwise they're merely a replacable and servicable musician who shouldn't get the props they deserve and which they worked for ?
[Edited 9/10/09 23:29pm]

Z on the other hand, was just another drummer who's role could have been easily filled.

Prince said, "...he pays attention like no other drummers do"

chopchop20 said:

I guess he was appreciated by Prince for some specific quality :

chopchop20 said:

If that quality was easy to be filled, why gave Prince him those props anyway and not replace him right away ?

As for Brownmark :

"...he became a record producer and recording artist himself after parting company with Prince in 1986."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownmark

Iirc, The Revolution disbanded in 1986.

Although "When Doves Cry" (from Purple Rain) was the first Prince song where he took out the bass line completely, most of his music did not utilise the stereotypical Larry Graham slap bass groove, to the extent that other funk artists before him had done. Songs in this vain, like "Uptown" (from Dirty Mind, 1980), "Alphabet Street" (from Lovesexy, 1988) and "Emancipation" (from same-titled album, 1996) are rare in Prince's vast cannon. Prince often used the bass as a percussive element instead of a harmonic one. Its heaviest use was in lead-in's to the snare beats on the 2nd and 4th, adding just an single slap or flourish here and there to syncopate the groove and emphasis the drum beat: "Automatic" (from 1999) is notable for this. Apart from a rapid quirky slap flourish every four bars on beat 4.5 (the fourth beat plus a quaver, or the last quaver before the bar line) to emphasis the one, this is the total bass guitar input for the entirety of the song apart from the ending. This is because the music is driven by Prince most recognisable compositional characteristic; the drums.

The interplay between the bass and drum parts have in his music is extremely intricate. 1999 is perhaps the album that best demonstrates this. At the forefront of every mix in 1999 is that distinctive 1-kick…2-snare…3-kick…4-snare, with hardly any fills or breaks to interrupt the ostinato, as often is the case within his music. With snares sounding slightly ahead of the beat, it produces this drive that is ridiculously catchy in itself. Songs like "Let's Go Crazy" (from Purple Rain, 1984) and "If" (from Sign O The Times, 1987) are both songs that are driven by their unyielding rigid drum patters. Prince's drums aren't only significant because of their prominence but also their timbre; especially with the snare. One trick he developed was running his infamous LM-1 drum machine through a Boss effects pedal to create unique drum sounds. The results of these experiments were used in the majority of his '80's material, making every song sound like it has its own specific drum kit.

Where other funk artists like George Clinton tended to focus on bass grooves to drive the music and James Brown generally used the guitar or horns for his, Prince utilised his drums programming. His drum sequences are not clever because they are complex or completely original, but due to the way they propel the music forward. To hear this explicitly, listen again to Prince's catalogue from the album 1999 through to Sign- there, his drum timbres contain rich variation with some repetition of the ideas that generally returned with slight variation. Parade is probably the best example- it's an album which contains the widest variation in percussion from one song to the next, including a lot reversed phased percussion, like the snare on the opening track "Christopher Tracy's Parade" and the bass drum in "Kiss." One distinct percussion signature he used during this time (especially on Purple Rain) was a processed rim shot sound, most notably on "Lets Go Crazy," "The Beautiful Ones, " "Computer Blue" and "When Doves Cry" (all from Rain) as well as "Raspberry Beret" (Around the World in a Day, 1985) and "Play In the Sunshine" (Sign O the times). This drum sound is very distinguishably and keyed to Prince's aural world.

Based on musicianship:
1.Dr. Fink - master of sound synthesis, virtuoso keyboardist
2. BrownMark - extremely funky and skilled bassist
3. Wendy - very good rhythm guitarist
4. Lisa - good, but not great technically, very good sense of cmposition
5. Bobby Z - average technically and artistically

Based on influence:
1. Wendy & Lisa - broadened Prince's musical palette, co-wrote songs
2. Dr. Fink - influenced the sound and also Prince's playing
3. BrownMark - same as Fink, lesser influence on Prince's sound because of the way Prince composed music then
4. Bobby Z - hard to tell anything substantial



Again, this was 99.99% Prince, not Bobby Z.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I'm saying, Bobby Z does not have a standout on any Prince record -- or anyone elses for that matter. Sorry, I'm not 45 so I missed him live back in '86, but still the guy is serviceable at best.

Prince said, "...he pays attention like no other drummers do" -- not a ringing endorsement for his skills, basically saying he's a good metronome.

And yes, Prince used a lot of drum machines that kept to similar patterns. BUT make no mistake about it, Drums were the most distinctive element of the Minneapolis Sound era. Prince arranged music around the beat and he used bass guitar in a non-traditional funk way (not a lot of low-end). He was very creative in that aspect and that's why the sound has translated so well to Hip Hop that we're hearing today.

But again, that was all Prince not Bobby Z.