OldFriends4Sale said:

Seems u got it twisted.

Graycap23 said:

Graycap, I'm definately not arguing with you that's not what I want

But I understand from your first response in this topic that you want/like verrrrry short posts or resonses

the last 2 posts of your are so short, that they are vague, I don't know or can't descern what you mean or what your saying

So I'll leave it as I got it twisted

OldFriends4Sale said:

All I'm saying is, being around friends has nothing 2 do with living in the past as it seems that u are suggesting.

Graycap23 said:

lol well then my friend, you got it twisted, I'm always saying that being around friends is not living in the past, I'm looking beyond the Revolution but friends who are musicians

I don't see how anyone got that confused from my post

You said something about NEW music, I don't care if it was old or new, I was refering to SOmeone who said Prince doesn't live in the past in comparison with performing with Revolution members (not Revolution band)

OldFriends4Sale said:

Lol.....I re-read your post. U are correct.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, but a "Revolution composition" doesn't mean they R on the recorded version. Prince may be giving some writing credit 4 some input, or idea from a jam, but what Dr Fink is saying is that it was mostly all Prince on those two albums.

Matt Fink:



.
[Edited 6/9/09 10:39am]

I'll say this for The Revolution, that era (1999 thru to Parade) signifies the greatest period of artistic growth in Prince's entire career. They helped bring him on, no doubt.

Umm yes, they play much tighter man, some of teh stuff on , TGE, Crystal Ball, Lotusflow3r the revolution coulda never played some of that stuff.

This thread's made me think more about NPG vs. Revolution.

To me, the Revolution's sound -- the "cold funk" of "Darling Nikki" that Prince acknowledged around 2000-1 in some interview as being something only they could really pull off -- is a narrower and more specialized sound than the NPG has done over the years. The Revolution might have been capable of doing a lot of different kinds of sounds, and I suppose when you look at the range from the 1999 tour (MPLS sound robo-funk) to the expanded Revolution in 1986 (a more nimble kind of jazzy funk), there is a pretty decent variety there. And they probably could have had an even greater range if Prince had been interested in exploring it with them.

But, overall, the NPG has shown a lot greater breadth. Think of an album like o(+> (1992). Not the best Prince album of all time, perhaps, but it does have that range, from hip hop to "Damn U" (which could almost be a Cole Porter tune) to Queen-like bombast. Could the Revolution have pulled off all that? 1995 aftershows? A lot of variety of musical styles there.

It may be more a matter of how Prince used them rather than what the talent of the individual players in each band would have allowed, but I think the NPG (and the SOTT/Lovesexy band) showed more musical diversity as a performing band than the Revolution. Not even close, really.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say it was the main reason why the Revolution was disbanded. Bobby Z's a pretty decent drummer, but it's hard to imagine him measuring up in a situation like the August 18, 1988 aftershow. What if he'd been in the drummer's seat? Can you imagine him starting the show off in as imaginative and restrained and creative a way that Sheila did? Again, he might have been able to stretch further than Prince let him go, but...Shelia he is not.

The Revolution had its place and time, but it was very particular to that place and time. I am not too surprised Prince has not done a reunion with them. I'm sure a one-off wouldn't do any harm for the sake of nostalgia, and Prince goes into the mode of reflecting on the past musicallly at times like any other artist that's been around for a while. But I can understand why he wouldn't want to do a full-blown tour with them. It's just too...stuck in the 80's and its peculiarities of its sound, which the Revolution (and the Revolution-era Prince) did so much to shape.

i don't want to see a Revolution reunion tour. Saw that when it happened, it was great. Saw all the other bands pretty much they were great too. Whatever was happening during the Revolution period was the most unique and interesting stuff (as a whole) to my ears. That is when I felt Prince was an artist I could listen to until I was an old man. On occasion after that I saw some flashes, but now it's just bland and contrived imo. What i want to see is some people that he really vibes with and makes good music. Clearly he can't do it in a vacuum as some suggest. Seems to me from what I read- Prince may have played the parts, but he had people around him sparking creativity and new direction (as well as clearly writing some of it) and THAT is what has ben missing for waaaay to long imo.

Marrk said:

And that's what Prince is missing,

a lot of musicians are tight a lot of bands are tight
But that doesn't bring musical inspiration, lyrical depth and the energy we get from the Dirty Mind - Lovesexy bands

I really like the SOTT / Lovesexy band
but I would not want Sheila on drum all the time, I like her upfront on the percussios
I also don't think that the SOTT/Lovesexy band had the chemistry he had with the post/Revolution band as far as creativity

Again the proof is in the pudding, the bulk of unreleased music that a lot of fan covet is from the 1999-Dream Factory years

We can only attribute 50% of SOTT chemistry to that particular band because only Dr Fink Eric Leeds & Matt Blistan took part in the Dream Factory music/era

Sheila E had her parts there as well, she was also a protege since 84 so she brought the purple vibe in, Mico too.

But we see a drop in outtakes and b-sides, a drop in work that required proteges to release through and then Lovesexy outtakes drop even more, I have about 4 that I know of

But the SOTT/Lovesexy band mostly were a part of the extended Revolution as well as a part of protege groups:Levi Sheila & Boni in particular

the 2 dancers(male) were cool for stage antics but Cat was good enough

Thibaut said:

well NPG is not one band but a few bands under 1 name over time

And the Revolution could have explode LotusFlow3r

Crystal Ball is a compilation album
made up of stuff that ranged from the Revolution period including Dream Factory

let's say all the member of the Revolution thru the current NPG band are around the same age. What most people do in judging this is 1.)either look at the bands racially and assume the dominately 'blacker' bands are tighter and funkier,
or do a disservice to the ones who stopped playing with Prince in 1986/87 and leave it as that is their best best work, yet the other NPG member we credit yet we give them their full years of honing their craft and say they are better.

Anotherwontdare said:[quote]This thread's made me think more about NPG vs. Revolution.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say it was the main reason why the Revolution was disbanded. Bobby Z's a pretty decent drummer, but it's hard to imagine him measuring up in a situation like the August 18, 1988 aftershow. What if he'd been in the drummer's seat? Can you imagine him starting the show off in as imaginative and restrained and creative a way that Sheila did? Again, he might have been able to stretch further than Prince let him go, but...Shelia he is not.[quote]


That's not why the Revolution was disbanded

I could see Bobby Z & Sheila E switching, I still prefere her upfront, and Bobby would have gotten much better
Dr Fink stayed
and Prince wanted Brown Mark to stay(I think he's much better than Levi)
BrownMark left on his own (this is also were the money issues came into play)
Wendy & Lisa were 'fired' for personal reasons, not musical or lyrical, Prince felt slited during the tour, and he regretted it(refer to In this Bed I Scream)

Eric & Atlanta Bliss stayed

Cat was added

That's not why the Revolution was disbanded

I could see Bobby Z & Sheila E switching, I still prefere her upfront, and Bobby would have gotten much better
Dr Fink stayed
and Prince wanted Brown Mark to stay(I think he's much better than Levi)
BrownMark left on his own (this is also were the money issues came into play)
Wendy & Lisa were 'fired' for personal reasons, not musical or lyrical, Prince felt slited during the tour, and he regretted it(refer to In this Bed I Scream)

Eric & Atlanta Bliss stayed

Cat was added[/quote]

Do you think in light of the recent playing with the past band members and their increased output, Family 2.0 and Wendy and Lisa's new album, that there could be more collaborations/performances with some of the past musicians?

Franchise said:

Do you think in light of the recent playing with the past band members and their increased output, Family 2.0 and Wendy and Lisa's new album, that there could be more collaborations/performances with some of the past musicians?[/quote]

Yes,
Allan Leeds Susannah & Paul Peterson have talked about having Prince do some work with them on the new album

Prince talks with Susannah regularly
as well as with Dr Fink, Wendy & Lisa,
Eric is working with the Family 2.0

the above(women) play with Sheila E regularly(COED)

I don't know what his relationship with BrownMark & Bobby Z are
but I also didn't know he & Andre Cymone were friends again either

OldFriends4Sale said:

Maybe not, but my main point was that the (say) '93-95 NPG was able to perform a broader range of musical styles than the Revolution in terms of what Prince needs a band to do, which is a) back him up live and b) provide studio performances that are better than, or offer variety in a way he can't do alone.

Do you disagree?

Just curious, not trying to be challenging.

Anotherwontdare said:

no, this is a cool conversation
I think the Revolution and I'm going to use the Revolution to describe his Prince/Dirty Mind band - Parade/Dream Factory band because for the most part they are the same members just got the official name in 84

I think the Revolution musically was much more diverse, his albums in my opinion where much more diversed musically between Dirty Mind-Dream Factory
sounds that ranged from Classical,Funk,Rock,almost Metal, Jazz,& Blues

I think post Diamonds & Pearls Prince music was seriously affected by the changing climate of hip hop and I think he lost his voice, there are too many hit's and misses after Diamonds & Pearls
This is my opinion: Rainbow Children could have easily been something he did in the 80's to me that's a Prince album, for too long most of his album had no cohesive feel

Again I think we are judging the Revolution like the Revolution even SOTT musicians stopped growing as musicians in 1986 or 1988. Stopped playing instruments. They continued but we just didn't hear them anymore as a band.

NPG bands are good, I'm definately not saying that they aren't(how many different groups of musicians were there for NPG)

Mirabelle said:[quote]The Extended Revolution was great, so glad I saw them back in 1986 in Rotterdam....

Wow so lucky.Were you atthe show were he shouted out to the audience to stop fightting otherwise he would walk out. I remember him tearing into a ripping version of AMERICA after that.

LEEDS: Initial reaction is purely personal: time flies! I suppose the film’s legacy standing is a bit unexpected given the normally brief shelf life of pop art. But the long term impact of Purple Rain may be abetted some by the fact that youngsters playing “real” music on traditional instruments is so less common than it was twenty five years ago. In my lifetime, the idea of a bunch of young hopeful musicians getting together and starting a band was almost cliché-ish. Today, it’s almost unheard of. Youngsters with musical ambitions today concentrate on computer skills and the entire process of writing and recording music has become completely masturbatory. I suppose, in the sense that he played all the parts on many of his recordings, Prince was a precursor to that which makes the impact of Purple Rain all the more ironic.

Love this quote!
Alan in particular comes across as a very intelligent person.
[Edited 6/10/09 4:36am]

Did any of you see the last streaming Family broadcast? Sort of backs up my idea that Prince needs people he trusts and can bounce stuff off. Susannah told the story of Starfish and Coffee and how it cam from actual people and a girl from her school - plus the happy faces and everything. Cynthia Rose is real!I love that song and always wondered. An example of how others shape your artistry and why Prince's why the Revolution was so important sine they all started as friends and band mates- rather than just hired help. Go check it out. Towards the end of the stream.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1606185

Zannaloaf said:

Totally agree with you
even the Vanity 6 stuff too me had more debth and history behind it that some post 1988 stuff
because like you said it's a group that consisted of Girlfriend exGirlfriend/highschool mate, and friend-wife of stage manager

I love every NOTE!I want it all!

and now it turns out that Lisa wrote Power Fantastic....will wonders never cease....??

Great interview!

Excellent Interview. Very Candid.

I honestly think The Revolution were just the guys who happened to be there when P was at his creative peak. If it hadn't been them it would've been someone else. Dr. Fink seems to be pretty realistic about that.....



And P is right to not hook up with them again. That would be charity work. It would be great for them and for some sentimentalists in the audience, but it would have no value other than nostalgia and that would depress as many as it would thrill, particularly Prince. The Revolution were not a band in the same way that The E Street Band are. They were hired hands. Bruce and The E Street Band are blood brothers.

That said, I would love to see Prince have the kind of meaningful collaboration he had with Wendy & Lisa again. They GENUINELY did stretch him. I don't think any of his other collaborators have ever challenged him like they did.

EDIT: Forgot to mention. Love the interview.
[Edited 6/29/09 8:01am]

dolorespark said:[quote]

Mirabelle said:

the introduction of America at the Purple Rain concert was awesome
all the musicians were on, Sheila E had a hot solo, Bobby Z tore up a quick electronic drum set solo(he made it sound really good and then...before it's time, broke into a serious House beat(house music fans?) around 13:00 minutes into the song

midnightmover said:

I don't know if they could be considered just hired hands, especially in light of the time,
These were friends (actually Prince is still friends with most of them, Wendy Dr Frink, Lisa, Bobby Z, Dez, Andre, I don't know where BrownMark is)

But these people were with him from when he was no body
They hung out, stayed at each others houses, ran around the city/cities together, Dr Fink Prince Andre used to work out together, cook outs, knew each others families, Lisa said in the current SPIN mag that she and Prince lived together for a while, she would make him sandwiches they did laundry together ... that's just hired hands?

I don't think it could have been anyone that was in the band at the time. For example I think Lisa brought something to the table that Gayle Chapman didn't have, and I think she was able to go sexual-musically/lyrically with Prince in a way Gayle couldn't.

Everyone brings different experiences and a different background.
When I looked into the musical background of the Revolution members I was blown away, another example, as much as I love the SOTT/Lovesexy band I don't think as a whole they had the studio/songwriting creativity Prince got from the Revolution + Susannah.

Prince's subsequent musicians were always talented. But arguably, they're not of the level he once had. If they don't bring any ideas, they don't challange him, they don't stimulate him. The Revolution were constantly bringing songs to his attention. They would leave rehearsal and go listen to a Duke Ellington record or a country western record. He was all ears. The more money he's had, the more he's been able to isolate himself from the real world. He handpicks his input.

-Alan Leeds SPIN Mag July 2009 pg 61

OldFriends4Sale said:

Don't be fooled by those heart warming anecdotes. Just 'cos your boss cracks a joke with you once in a while doesn't mean he sees you as an equal. Obviously Andre was different and Wendy & Lisa clearly were important contributors to Parade, but the rest were along for the ride (as Fink said himself). Pretty much all the definitive Prince stuff was done by P ALONE!

Sometimes if one of them came up with a cool bass line or keyboard riff P would take that and turn it into a song, but frankly when a songwriter is in the zone, as P was at that time, they can use anything for inspiration and make it work. Remember, a riff and a song are two different things. It's also worth pointing out that the songs where P shared credits were often the weaker ones. Most of them were either not released or were lesser moments on stellar albums. CB for instance is the weakest track on PR. IGBABN is not one of the highlights of SOTT either. The highlights were done by P ALONE!

Those guys did their jobs well, but none of them were essential, and P played with much better musicians later. The problem was P himself was not as inspired later, which is why I say those guys were lucky to be there when they were.