Anyone know what happened to the infamous "executive producer" of Emancipation, Kirky J? What a horrible producer he was...the way most tracks on Emanicpation were produced, they're so so flat and lifeless! Kind of like the original version of "The Dance." Nice vocals, but so damn flat. Compare that to "The Dance" on 3121... so much better, so thick and fat with soul. I bet a lot of songs on Emanicpation would be much better received with that kind of production.

He is still working with his Casio and has now taught Pharell how to produce.

ISN'T HE ONE OF THE FONKY BALDHEADS?????

lspear76 said:

He's been touring with Candy Dulfer and also plays in The Truth (with various other MPLS music vets).

I find it humorous that even though P was the overall producer on Emancipation, people continually hang their distaste for the album on Kirk. I doubt that anyone who's made these comments has ever witnessed firsthand KJ's work in the studio. Ironically (considering the love for Michael B. around here), Michael B himself said that one of the only drummers in MPLS who's style he likes and respects is Kirk Johnson. If people don't like Emancipation, don't listen to it. Don't resort to cutting someone down (besides the producer himself) to make you feel better about hating the album. For the record, I've gone back and forth on how I feel about albums between 96-99. I happen to really enjoy Emancipation and parts of NPS now (disappointed with NPS when it was released). BUT I never blamed Kirk for something "the emancipated Prince" had complete control over.

I find it humorous that even though P was the overall producer on Emancipation, people continually hang their distaste for the album on Kirk. I doubt that anyone who's made these comments has ever witnessed firsthand KJ's work in the studio. Ironically (considering the love for Michael B. around here), Michael B himself said that one of the only drummers in MPLS who's style he likes and respects is Kirk Johnson. If people don't like Emancipation, don't listen to it. Don't resort to cutting someone down (besides the producer himself) to make you feel better about hating the album. For the record, I've gone back and forth on how I feel about albums between 96-99. I happen to really enjoy Emancipation and parts of NPS now (disappointed with NPS when it was released). BUT I never blamed Kirk for something "the emancipated Prince" had complete control over.[/quote]

Good call. It's kind of like the Larry Graham hate. I find it a little funny that many fans who know how much of a control freak Prince is are the same to point the blame at others when there is a period of output of Prince's music that doesn't suit their tastes.

I can say that Emancipation is not my favorite album of Prince's by far, but I don't bear any ill will towards anyone involved. It's Prince's album and what he wanted to make.

Good call. It's kind of like the Larry Graham hate. I find it a little funny that many fans who know how much of a control freak Prince is are the same to point the blame at others when there is a period of output of Prince's music that doesn't suit their tastes.

I can say that Emancipation is not my favorite album of Prince's by far, but I don't bear any ill will towards anyone involved. It's Prince's album and what he wanted to make.[/quote]

Yeah, Larry G. falls right into that same category. Larry's a music legend and some P fans want to reduce him to a religious freak that pushed Prince in the same direction. Another convenient scapegoat for what they don't like about Prince, his music or his choices.

My answer to this question is maybe he learned to drum.

He is by far the worst drummer Prince has ever used. I'm convinced that he's used photos of Prince fellating Richard Simmons as blackmail for the job.

Why are yall still Bitch**g about Kirk. Leave him alone. He ain't working with prince no mo' Happy now? Don't like his programming. Blame Prince. He picked the beats. Michael Bland also said he likes Kirk's programming. I like Kirk's programming. But... just not for Prince. Kirk's hard R&B sound don't fit with Prince, in my opinion.

As for his drumming. I love his drumming. He's strictly all pocket. I am a drummer I know what I'm talking about. That's all the f**k I care about. Kirk can do what Blackwell do. I've seen him rip all over the kit and I was shocked. I didn't know Kirk was an excellent soloist. But he's more concerned with grooving and keeping it simple. Trust me, I know because he told me personally. I don't care about that lame John Blackwell and his flashy twirling. It don't impress me. Trust me, go pick up one of his dvd's and ask any professional musician if his groove and timing is off. Many would say that John Blackwell's pocket is off. I spoke with two former TOP prince band member which I know personally and one of them is my dad. No lie. Both said that Blackwell's pocket is lame. And his timing is off sometimes. Didn't some of you hear that Prince was once not pleased with Blackwell's playing and threatened to find another drummer if he doesn't get his s**t together? Yeah, it's the truth. But surprisingly his pocket improved. But still, even in his post Prince career. He still hasn't learned anything that Prince taught him -- keep your pocket and groove solid. I was watching one of his performance on YouTube. Oh my god. He was awful. He was playing all over the place. There was no groove.

I don't understand how can Kirk be so bad and Bobby Z is not. Kirk can play circles around Bobby Z and no one bad mouths Bobby. I don't get it. According to my dad Bobby Z was horrible. He never said that Kirk was horrible but he does prefer Michael Bland. My dad also likes Kirk for his good solid pocket groove.

If yall wanna bad mouth somebody, bad mouth yourself because some of you Kirk-haters have no understanding of music and pocket or groove. If some of you Kirk-haters aren't drummers I suggest you to shut the he*ll up and learn to play the drums before you bad mouth Kirk. Some of you Kirk-haters who are drummers, get more drumming lesson and learn what grooving is. Kirk is excellent and I'm proud to say that he is my favorite drummer and Michael Bland is second.

OperatingThetan said:

He was probably working with YOUR Casio that he stole from your cheap studio.

PearlDrummer said:

I seriously thought you were going to say, "Kirk is excellent and I'm proud to say that he is my...dad".

I don't know why.

Anji said:

I do.

Kirk is listed as the manager or president of Love 4 One Another charities.

PearlDrummer said:

Thanks for letting me know I have a 'cheap' studio. Where is it?

In all seriousness, I was only joking. Until I came on here I didn't mind Kirk at all. I actually think his production is quite solid on 'New Power Soul' and most of 'Rave'. And of course, Prince is always executive producer anyway.

Live I thought Kirk was reasonable too. I saw him live in 1998 with Prince and one of the things I appreciated was that he was not overly flashy and that his drums didn't dominate the sound. Prince's new drummer Cora Dunham fits perfectly into the category between 'being in the pocket' and 'flashy' when necessary. But Kirk is by no means a terrible drummer. I prefer straight, rhythmic drumming to flashiness and showmanship.

Kirk is affected by the same shit as Larry Graham. I've seen Larry live and he plays that bass like NOBODY I've seen before or after. Larry is a 100%, straight-up musical legend and innovator, but he gets treated like crap round here because of JW conspiracy theories. The same applies to Kirk. Kirk is blamed for the production some fans didn't like, but Prince obviously did.

[/quote]

I seriously thought you were going to say, "Kirk is excellent and I'm proud to say that he is my...dad".

I don't know why.[/quote]


Nope. I'm not going to say who my dad is. It's confidential. And sorry for being so harsh guys. Whenever I hear somebody bash Kirk. I take it personally. The good things is. Kirk don't care if yall don't like him.

If some of you were Prince's drummer and everybody bashes you... would you care? Probably not. I'm happy for the guy. He got the chance to play with one of the biggest artists on the planet. Not many drummers will get that chance.

pzlyprk said:

Yeah, I blame Mayte for inspiring that steaming pile of crappy love songs from "emancipated" Prince! Emancipated my ass--he was p*ssy whipped.



.
[Edited 8/19/07 9:26am]

PearlDrummer said:

Thank you PearlDrummer! You're someone who knows what he's talking about! There are sooooo many drummers out there who try to play EVERY drumfill they can into every song. Anyone wanting to learn the correct way to play drums professionally can take a lesson from Kirk. He sticks with the basics, which are Tempo and Dynamics. And yes he can play circles around Bobby Z.

[/quote]Thank you PearlDrummer! You're someone who knows what he's talking about! There are sooooo many drummers out there who try to play EVERY drumfill they can into every song. Anyone wanting to learn the correct way to play drums professionally can take a lesson from Kirk. He sticks with the basics, which are Tempo and Dynamics. And yes he can play circles around Bobby Z.[/quote]


FINALLY!!! FINALLY!!! someone GETS it! Basics and Dynamics and Tempo. That's all Prince cares about. Prince said in a magazine once that the only thing he requires his drummers to do is keep pocket, time and solid groove. THAT's IT!

When I was 10years old. I used to sit behind Michael Bland during rehearsals just because I was fascinated with his professionalism. But then Kirk found a time to jump on Michael's drums and started playing. I was floored with how smooth he was. Then automatically he became my favorite over Bland in terms of solid pocket groove. Not that Michael was bad. Michael just has a different sound. It was more rock. Kirk is more R&B and I happen to prefer Kirk's sound.

Several years later, my cousin mentioned to me that Kirk became Prince's full time drummer. I was kind of shocked myself because I never considered Kirk to be flashy. Michael was flashy, in a way but, Kirk was more laid back and humble. I never thought Kirk's drumming was at the level of Michael Bland. But, I understood why Prince asked Kirk to play the drums. His pocket is so solid. But a lot of us don't even know that prior to playing the drums for Prince, Kirk hadn't played the drums for YEARS and had a lot of catching up to do. For a guy who hadn't played the drum for years, he did a good job.

I'm a drummer as well and been playing since the age of 3, and i saw Kirk play for candy and KJ is a tight drummer he does keep some pocket smooth and tight, some drummers are flashy and all over the place but cannot keep pocket to save their life,take Bobby Z for instance... not the greatest drummer in the universe but he had Pocket,

I'm not a drummer - what's "pocket"

BOBBY Z IS BETTER DRUMMER THEN KIRK.
BOBBY WAS WITH PRINCE IN THE TIME WHEN DRUMMING WAS OUT,DRUM MACHINES WERE IN.
BOBBY Z SAID:WHEN PRINCE THREW AWAY HIS ACOUSTIC DRUM AND BROUGHT IN LINN DRUMM HE THOUGHT HE WAS OUT OF JOB.PRINCE TOLD HIM"SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH THIS.

IF YOU WANT TO HEAR HOW GREAT BOBBY WAS ON DRUMS CHECK ATLANTA OMNI 1980 RICK JAMES SUPPORT CONCERT.
BOBBY WAS GREAT THERE.
ALSO BOBBY WAS MORE VERSATILE THEN KIRKY AND BOBBY'S DRUMMING WAS MUCH MORE COMPLIMENTING PRINCE SOUND THEN KIRKY .

AND PLEASE DON'T SHIT ABOUT JOHN BLACKWELL.HE CAN PLAY CIRCLES AROUND EVERY PRINCE DRUMMER.
ALTHOUGHT I LIKE MICHAEL BLAND MACHO HEAVY HARD HITTING SOUND.

SORRY FOR CAPS LOCK MY COMP IS SHIT

thebanishedone said:

Sorry, but I already shit about John Blackwell. I won't change my mind about how I feel about him. Sorry! If you like Bobby Z. Great! If you think Kirk is lame... ask Michael Bland yourself what he think of Kirk. He would strongly disagree with you. Trust me, I asked him myself. You're entitled to your opinion but. I rather take opinions from REAL musicians who understands music. If Prince thinks Kirk is good, then he's gotta be good. Sorry!

PearlDrummer said:

I wouldn't go that far....after all Prince also thought it was a "good" idea to let Carmen Electra and Tony M have their own rap albums.

DevotedPuppy said:

I don't know why you're comparing artists to musicians? It's two different thing. Carmen is obvious -- he was f***in her! I don't know about Tony. Oh yeah, what about all this lame songs that Prince has put out? He also thought they were good songs. But... what are we talking about here? Artists or Musicians? I wouldn't go that far, either.

PearlDrummer said:

Fair point, but Kirky started as a 'game boy,' same as Tony M. I think Tony played a little guitar (I vaguely remember a video from D&P(?) where he was playing?).

But you just disproved your own point by saying, "what about all this lame songs that Prince has put out? He also thought they were good songs." Bottom line: just because Prince (who is a musical genius) thinks something/someone is good does not automatically mean it is.

I was just playing a bit of devil's advocate anyway--I don't really have anything against Kirk--don't really have anything for him either. I hate Emancipation--but like I said before I blame Mayte for inspiring that drivel and Prince for being too p*ssy whipped to realize it was . Doesn't matter if you're a good drummer or not if the song sucks to begin with.

Yeah but WHAT'S POCKET?

this thread got hardcore!

One thing people need to understand is this.....its ok to have our OWN opinions but that doesnt mean to cut someone down while expressing yourself. Even though Kirk J may not be my favorite drummers, I respect his work with prince. Bland, will always be my fav. He not only possess finese, but raw energy as well. I know I may get shot down for this....but Ive always said that Bland to Prince.....is like Jon Bohnam to Led Zepplin. And ever sine bland's departure.....Prince's sound hasnt been the same since.

HELLOOOOO ANYBODY WHAT'S POCKET?????

jaypotton said:

This is exactly why a lot of idiots on the forum shouldn't be bashing Kirk.

Don't worry jaypotton. This isn't directed at you.

Pocket is a term that describes how good and solid a music feels to you. James Brown is the King of pocket. Just listen to his music. It's solid and funky and just feels good. Listen to James Brown's song Payback. Oh My God. That's the ultimate pocket song especially the drums and bass. It feels so good.

From a drummer standpoint. Pocket is basically how good a drummer's groove is. Do you ever get the feeling that when drummer plays a simple beat on and on without adding stupid fills, he locks it in and grooves and it feels so good it makes you want to dance or close your eyes and feel the beat or twist your face into the "funkface."