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Printable‘I wasn't allowed to call him, ever. Even when we were married; I had to wait for him to call me. I've no idea why, he never actually said,’
WTF?!?!? What if there was some type of emergency or something? What if she just wanted to hear his voice? OK, Prince. If this is true, you best stick with the youngins because no woman worth her salt would put up with that mule droppings! Better yet. Don't ever get married again! Just keep 'em young and commin! | |
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I have 2 agree with you all completely. P is cowardly and hypocritical with this kind of intimate relationship.
Personally, I don't consider monogamous relationships at all natural. They demand constant maintenance, otherwise they fall apart, and can sometimes get very ugly. He should be much more careful with people he commits himself to. I still think, all in all, mayte has benefitted immeasurably from her time with prince, however perverse it was. | |
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malbena said: I'm seriously getting tired of hearing a blind majority of fans protecting Prince no matter what. He's almost too perfect to be a bad guy.
First let me clarify by stating that I am not part of any blind majority who protects Prince no matter what. He is a grown man, he doesn't need a stranger to protect him, nor would I try to protect someone I don't know. I am simply making the point that no one can legislate the proper way to react to grief/tragedy. Everyone reacts to grief differently. Some people turn to God, some turn to alcohol, some turn to drugs, some turn to work, some emotionally detach, some turn to other people and some turn inward and isolate themselves from other people. There is no "right" way to deal with grief or tragedy. So why does anyone have to be a "bad guy" in this situation? My immediate family experienced a freak, tragic event two years ago involving my twin sister. Each one of us dealt with it differently at the time. Fortunately, things turned out ok in the end, but for awhile we didn't know if we were going to lose her, if she would be brain damaged or paralyzed. To this day we've never talked to one another about our individual feelings. We all just dealt with it differently and individually - in the same house. My father turned to drinking, my mother cried and prayed, my brother detached emotionally and I just focused on what I needed to do to take care of my sister - never crying or allowing my emotions to get in the way of my responsibilities. Knowing how close my sister and I are, friends were checking on me left and right to make sure that I was "ok." They thought I would be a wreck and told me they were shocked at how I held it together. As I said, my way of coping was to not accept that there could be a "bad" outcome and to just focus on visiting her at the hospital everyday and taking care of her needs. My sister's boyfriend was there with her the first day in the hospital, then got so depressed that he didn't return for a day or so. My sister didn't get angry at any of us either, because she knew we were all dealing with the tragedy in our own ways. Neither of us blamed the other for the way that they dealt with the situation. We all did what we had to do to maintain our sanity and overcome the situation. For example, my father cannot deal with tragedy, his way of dealing is drinking, which he turned to after his sister was murdered by her husband. So, when tragedy struck again that is what he did. He never visited my sister in the hospital, because emotionally he couldn't handle it - and we knew it. He never had to say a thing. My sister never got angry or called him a bad guy for not visiting her in the hospital, because she knew that emotionally he could not handle seeing her that way. So my only point was that people should not be so quick to judge Prince based on his reaction to the tragedy of losing a child. No man can stand in judgment of another's method of dealing with grief. We are all different. There is no textbook or manual for experiencing life. Life is not a fairytale. perfection is a fallacy of the imagination... | |
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bellanoche said: malbena said: I'm seriously getting tired of hearing a blind majority of fans protecting Prince no matter what. He's almost too perfect to be a bad guy.
First let me clarify by stating that I am not part of any blind majority who protects Prince no matter what. He is a grown man, he doesn't need a stranger to protect him, nor would I try to protect someone I don't know. I am simply making the point that no one can legislate the proper way to react to grief/tragedy. Everyone reacts to grief differently. Some people turn to God, some turn to alcohol, some turn to drugs, some turn to work, some emotionally detach, some turn to other people and some turn inward and isolate themselves from other people. There is no "right" way to deal with grief or tragedy. So why does anyone have to be a "bad guy" in this situation? My immediate family experienced a freak, tragic event two years ago involving my twin sister. Each one of us dealt with it differently at the time. Fortunately, things turned out ok in the end, but for awhile we didn't know if we were going to lose her, if she would be brain damaged or paralyzed. To this day we've never talked to one another about our individual feelings. We all just dealt with it differently and individually - in the same house. My father turned to drinking, my mother cried and prayed, my brother detached emotionally and I just focused on what I needed to do to take care of my sister - never crying or allowing my emotions to get in the way of my responsibilities. Knowing how close my sister and I are, friends were checking on me left and right to make sure that I was "ok." They thought I would be a wreck and told me they were shocked at how I held it together. As I said, my way of coping was to not accept that there could be a "bad" outcome and to just focus on visiting her at the hospital everyday and taking care of her needs. My sister's boyfriend was there with her the first day in the hospital, then got so depressed that he didn't return for a day or so. My sister didn't get angry at any of us either, because she knew we were all dealing with the tragedy in our own ways. Neither of us blamed the other for the way that they dealt with the situation. We all did what we had to do to maintain our sanity and overcome the situation. For example, my father cannot deal with tragedy, his way of dealing is drinking, which he turned to after his sister was murdered by her husband. So, when tragedy struck again that is what he did. He never visited my sister in the hospital, because emotionally he couldn't handle it - and we knew it. He never had to say a thing. My sister never got angry or called him a bad guy for not visiting her in the hospital, because she knew that emotionally he could not handle seeing her that way. So my only point was that people should not be so quick to judge Prince based on his reaction to the tragedy of losing a child. No man can stand in judgment of another's method of dealing with grief. We are all different. There is no textbook or manual for experiencing life. Life is not a fairytale. Here is what I wrote after thinking about it Bellanoche. It was posted prior to your response. I don't know if it can help. Although I first disagreed with BellaNoche about him not being there to help Mayte during the tragedy, I still think it takes two to tangle, and we'd need to hear his side of the story to be able to judge. We will probably never know as Prince doesn't like to talk about his private life However, when you gather bits of information from different people who had any kinda of relationship with him, you can have an idea of his personnality. He's very controlling and selfish in my opinion no matter how talented and successful he became, he's just like us, not perfect. In my mind, when there is a tragedy, we should all be one for one another. Also, if I and other people responded that way, it is obviously because we suffered also suffered a tragedy and didn't like the fact Prince wasn't there for her but who am I to set a definite behavior. | |
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I agree bella. This is no strange phenomenon in terms of people and their inability to deal with the emotional trauma of losing a child. People handle grief differently but it is not uncommon for one partner i.e. the male partner, to detach from the situation. In the movie Babel starring Brad Pitt, he shut down and left his wife to deal with the loss of their baby. However, we're not told this. Instead we feel the strain and the anger within their relationship and naturally we believe he has cheated. Eventually we learn the truth when his wife exclaims that his leaving made her feel as if he was blaming her for the baby's death. He tells her that he didn't blame her at all but simply couldn't deal with the situation. Generally speaking, men are not in touch with their emotions like women are and therefore are not very good in handling situations like this. Men have been told from birth to be strong and that they can't cry so sometimes they can come off as blank or without emotion even when they hurt inside, so cut Prince some slack. | |
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airbak said: I agree bella. This is no strange phenomenon in terms of people and their inability to deal with the emotional trauma of losing a child. People handle grief differently but it is not uncommon for one partner i.e. the male partner, to detach from the situation. In the movie Babel starring Brad Pitt, he shut down and left his wife to deal with the loss of their baby. However, we're not told this. Instead we feel the strain and the anger within their relationship and naturally we believe he has cheated. Eventually we learn the truth when his wife exclaims that his leaving made her feel as if he was blaming her for the baby's death. He tells her that he didn't blame her at all but simply couldn't deal with the situation. Generally speaking, men are not in touch with their emotions like women are and therefore are not very good in handling situations like this. Men have been told from birth to be strong and that they can't cry so sometimes they can come off as blank or without emotion even when they hurt inside, so cut Prince some slack.
I totally agree with the grieving part of it. There is no need to repeat it all over again as Bella explained it very well and I believe we all understand now that one grieves differently. I still find it harsh on Mayte to be dumped right after the tragedy... because this is what actually happenned. What was going on in Mayte's mind back then: He left me because I've lost the baby. he left me because all he wanted was a baby, he left me because I look too old and fat for him....Prince healing through work is one thing, Prince leaving Mayte right after, I don't understand. | |
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airbak said: I agree bella. This is no strange phenomenon in terms of people and their inability to deal with the emotional trauma of losing a child. People handle grief differently but it is not uncommon for one partner i.e. the male partner, to detach from the situation. In the movie Babel starring Brad Pitt, he shut down and left his wife to deal with the loss of their baby. However, we're not told this. Instead we feel the strain and the anger within their relationship and naturally we believe he has cheated. Eventually we learn the truth when his wife exclaims that his leaving made her feel as if he was blaming her for the baby's death. He tells her that he didn't blame her at all but simply couldn't deal with the situation. Generally speaking, men are not in touch with their emotions like women are and therefore are not very good in handling situations like this. Men have been told from birth to be strong and that they can't cry so sometimes they can come off as blank or without emotion even when they hurt inside, so cut Prince some slack.
NO SPOILERS WITHOUT WARNING!!!  Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: airbak said: I agree bella. This is no strange phenomenon in terms of people and their inability to deal with the emotional trauma of losing a child. People handle grief differently but it is not uncommon for one partner i.e. the male partner, to detach from the situation. In the movie Babel starring Brad Pitt, he shut down and left his wife to deal with the loss of their baby. However, we're not told this. Instead we feel the strain and the anger within their relationship and naturally we believe he has cheated. Eventually we learn the truth when his wife exclaims that his leaving made her feel as if he was blaming her for the baby's death. He tells her that he didn't blame her at all but simply couldn't deal with the situation. Generally speaking, men are not in touch with their emotions like women are and therefore are not very good in handling situations like this. Men have been told from birth to be strong and that they can't cry so sometimes they can come off as blank or without emotion even when they hurt inside, so cut Prince some slack.
NO SPOILERS WITHOUT WARNING!!! I humbly apologize for sharing this part of the movie Babel without warning. However, this wasn't an integral part of the story, so I didn't believe I would be ruining anything by divulging this part. Secondly, the movie wasn't very good in my opinion so I may have saved some people from wasting their money! LOL | |
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 Space for sale... | |
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airbak said: I agree bella. This is no strange phenomenon in terms of people and their inability to deal with the emotional trauma of losing a child. People handle grief differently but it is not uncommon for one partner i.e. the male partner, to detach from the situation. In the movie Babel starring Brad Pitt, he shut down and left his wife to deal with the loss of their baby. However, we're not told this. Instead we feel the strain and the anger within their relationship and naturally we believe he has cheated. Eventually we learn the truth when his wife exclaims that his leaving made her feel as if he was blaming her for the baby's death. He tells her that he didn't blame her at all but simply couldn't deal with the situation. Generally speaking, men are not in touch with their emotions like women are and therefore are not very good in handling situations like this. Men have been told from birth to be strong and that they can't cry so sometimes they can come off as blank or without emotion even when they hurt inside, so cut Prince some slack.
I coudl but its still wrong of him to do i have done it before and u dont have to be male to Shut down in Pull away i Hold in my Emotions from time to time and other times i dont. i have hurt may as coming off as Cold hearted to them i am not that way i have a big heart so for me i try in not Trp over that in be there for them as they are for me Just seems he cant have a Serious marrage i been married 6 years and have lived through the ups in downs my Nanny in law and Paw Paw in Law they been married for 57 years 57 years if he wants some thing Serious he needs not be so Possive controling and Demanding for god sake And for me i am not big on men are like im gonna try in be strong but she need his Strength look at it like this some times i put my Emotions a side i deal withem on my own and i am close in there for that person i am their Streagth i have had to do that many times with my Son. we all have sides to us i hvae been bossy and not nice at times but i make up for it just hope im not repeating myself. *Sigh* i look at hime differently but i can never hate a person No matter what just how i am some times i just kill em With Kind ness i am having to do that lately. take care all  | |
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Shyra said:[quote]‘I wasn't allowed to call him, ever. Even when we were married; I had to wait for him to call me. I've no idea why, he never actually said,’
In some songs like silly game and when you love somebody, Prince is saying that she did call him. For instance in when you love somebody he says "I was the one waiting by the phone when you were with somebody". And in silly game he says " I get happy knowing that you phoned". Now these songs seemingly seem to be about Mayte and the demise to their relationship that they were going through. So I wonder did he ever allow her to call him like when they were really on the rocks, or is he just improvising in these songs? [Edited 12/28/06 9:53am] | |
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'if you're always with me, you'll never have to call me...'
maybe she didn't need a phone. maybe she had other ways to get his attention if it was needed. maybe. [Edited 12/28/06 9:38am] [Edited 12/28/06 9:45am] | |
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if even half of this stuff is true, prince is still terribly screwd up and needs help. *shakes head in pity*
i agree that both mayte and mani had to know what they were in for, but it seems like they both come from backgrounds where be controlled and mindless was how they were raised so it wouldn't have seemed unusual for them to experience this sorta thing in a marriage. it's still fucked up, imo.  Prince #MUSICIANICONLEGEND | |
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wavesofbliss said: it seems like they both come from backgrounds where be controlled and mindless
not that i want to make any response in depth, but i don't enough about either of these individuals to make the assumptions regarding their backgrounds,their marriages or their futures. as yet. i have little insight into who they really are other than what they've chosen to make public. from here, i see some very focused, driven, spiritual, compassionate, intelligent, beautiful women who added their unique flavor to his life, music, knowledge and connection with the world. obviously he loved them, so i doubt they were completely unworthy or undeserving of his companionship. i do not see them as being purchased brides who were kept in captivity, and certainly they have learned from their time with him. i can imagine that it's very difficult to share their lives with a man they've chosen as well as with the public who judges them based on their information that is not often based in any kind of reality. i wish them well, everyone's burden in life is different, i certainly hope for them what i hope for anyone, that they are able to take lessons from what happened and do well for themselves - ultimately making the world a better place with the tools they now have at their disposal. i am sure as they build thier futures, if you care to, you'll have the chance to see who they chose to become. the wiser you get, the more wisdom you'll see in the world. | |
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wavesofbliss said: if even half of this stuff is true, prince is still terribly screwd up and needs help. *shakes head in pity*
i agree that both mayte and mani had to know what they were in for, but it seems like they both come from backgrounds where be controlled and mindless was how they were raised so it wouldn't have seemed unusual for them to experience this sorta thing in a marriage. it's still fucked up, imo. i don't understand the part in red. why do you say that? | |
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Christopher said: I bet hes shitting high heels at this point. the fact he cant control her no more and she gives an interview like this!?
you bet your bootlegs hes like 
 hillarious...white couch and all  | |
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sosgemini said: origmnd said: Of course he's "strict", but I gather that Mayte , or anyone else he gets involved with, is made aware of his tight-assed-ness. But how can you blame him. easily, the motherf*cker is f*cked up in the head. there are many many many other celebrities out there that don't do this sh*t to their women. prince is f*cked up. he lives in a loony world. his actions are considered disgusting when a real pimp does it (manipulates and controls a woman) and he should not receive a "get out of jail card for free" simply because he is prince. this sh*t is f*ckin' wrong. period. | |
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Stymie said: sosgemini said: easily, the motherf*cker is f*cked up in the head. there are many many many other celebrities out there that don't do this sh*t to their women. prince is f*cked up. he lives in a loony world. his actions are considered disgusting when a real pimp does it (manipulates and controls a woman) and he should not receive a "get out of jail card for free" simply because he is prince. this sh*t is f*ckin' wrong. period. yeah, you do have a point there, thought provoking stuff. Who is in the clear? I try though, and I know That I've never treated anyone as bad as he treated her. I'm suprised and disappointed with P for this weakness he has.Even though I don't consider myself exceptionally good I wouldn't tolerate that in myself. To only look out for yourself is one of the worst human traits. We know the man through the music, here his actions seem inconsistent. | |
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Stymie said: sosgemini said: easily, the motherf*cker is f*cked up in the head. there are many many many other celebrities out there that don't do this sh*t to their women. prince is f*cked up. he lives in a loony world. his actions are considered disgusting when a real pimp does it (manipulates and controls a woman) and he should not receive a "get out of jail card for free" simply because he is prince. this sh*t is f*ckin' wrong. period. You know what? You guys could go back and forth on this topic forever but at the end of the day, whether P was right or wrong, Mayte allowed herself to be treated like this and probably did the shit happily. If one is 'fucked up' then so is the other. I know that my personal life is fucked up enough NOT to put on blast and I think Mayte is not only tacky but stupid as fuck for telling people this stuff. And there it is. I think her dishing 'dirt' says far more about her than the actual words say about Prince. 14 minutes and counting.... | |
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Stymie said: sosgemini said: easily, the motherf*cker is f*cked up in the head. there are many many many other celebrities out there that don't do this sh*t to their women. prince is f*cked up. he lives in a loony world. his actions are considered disgusting when a real pimp does it (manipulates and controls a woman) and he should not receive a "get out of jail card for free" simply because he is prince. this sh*t is f*ckin' wrong. period. i'm not reading any negativity or cattiness from her comments that would justify your response...after all, its her life to discuss. but, if you feel that way...you feel that way. [Edited 12/28/06 17:43pm] Space for sale... | |
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thedribbler said: Stymie said: You know what? You guys could go back and forth on this topic forever but at the end of the day, whether P was right or wrong, Mayte allowed herself to be treated like this and probably did the shit happily. If one is 'fucked up' then so is the other. I know that my personal life is fucked up enough NOT to put on blast and I think Mayte is not only tacky but stupid as fuck for telling people this stuff.
yeah, you do have a point there, thought provoking stuff. Who is in the clear? I try though, and I know That I've never treated anyone as bad as he treated her. I'm suprised and disappointed with P for this weakness he has.Even though I don't consider myself exceptionally good I wouldn't tolerate that in myself. To only look out for yourself is one of the worst human traits. We know the man through the music, here his actions seem inconsistent. | |
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sosgemini said: Stymie said: You know what? You guys could go back and forth on this topic forever but at the end of the day, whether P was right or wrong, Mayte allowed herself to be treated like this and probably did the shit happily. If one is 'fucked up' then so is the other. I know that my personal life is fucked up enough NOT to put on blast and I think Mayte is not only tacky but stupid as fuck for telling people this stuff.
i'm not reading any negativity or cattiness from her comments that would justify your response...after all, its her life to discuss. but, if you feel that way...you feel that way. [Edited 12/28/06 17:43pm] It keeps her in the limelight though doesn't it? Why discuss such personal stuff with strangers, the most of which you will never see? Whatever, it makes interesting news for the likes of us. | |
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sosgemini said: Stymie said: You know what? You guys could go back and forth on this topic forever but at the end of the day, whether P was right or wrong, Mayte allowed herself to be treated like this and probably did the shit happily. If one is 'fucked up' then so is the other. I know that my personal life is fucked up enough NOT to put on blast and I think Mayte is not only tacky but stupid as fuck for telling people this stuff.
i'm not reading any negativity or cattiness from her comments that would justify your response...after all, its her life to discuss. but, if you feel that way...you feel that way. [Edited 12/28/06 17:43pm] | |
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sosgemini said: origmnd said: Of course he's "strict", but I gather that Mayte , or anyone else he gets involved with, is made aware of his tight-assed-ness. But how can you blame him. easily, the motherf*cker is f*cked up in the head. there are many many many other celebrities out there that don't do this sh*t to their women. prince is f*cked up. he lives in a loony world. his actions are considered disgusting when a real pimp does it (manipulates and controls a woman) and he should not receive a "get out of jail card for free" simply because he is prince. this sh*t is f*ckin' wrong. period. "a real pimp"? [Edited 12/28/06 18:38pm] | |
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sosgemini said: Stymie said: You know what? You guys could go back and forth on this topic forever but at the end of the day, whether P was right or wrong, Mayte allowed herself to be treated like this and probably did the shit happily. If one is 'fucked up' then so is the other. I know that my personal life is fucked up enough NOT to put on blast and I think Mayte is not only tacky but stupid as fuck for telling people this stuff.
i'm not reading any negativity or cattiness from her comments that would justify your response...after all, its her life to discuss. but, if you feel that way...you feel that way. [Edited 12/28/06 17:43pm] agreed there was SO MUCH MORE DIRT she could have dished. like Mani, the Tora period. She was actually very restrained and very non judgemental. I am sure it cut her heart out to lose first her baby, then her "soul mate" so close together. I personally would have not been so restrained. really. "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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sosgemini said: Stymie said: You know what? You guys could go back and forth on this topic forever but at the end of the day, whether P was right or wrong, Mayte allowed herself to be treated like this and probably did the shit happily. If one is 'fucked up' then so is the other. I know that my personal life is fucked up enough NOT to put on blast and I think Mayte is not only tacky but stupid as fuck for telling people this stuff.
i'm not reading any negativity or cattiness from her comments that would justify your response...after all, its her life to discuss. but, if you feel that way...you feel that way. [Edited 12/28/06 17:43pm] Mayte seems to have a pretty good attitude towards it all, considering the situation. Prince was a huge part of her life even before marriage and IMO maybe it took a while to open up (esp since he's now going thru a divorce) I have no doubt the relationship was emotionally abusive. Some women, (particularily with the age difference) are not strong enough nor have the self esteem required to get the hell out. What support system did she have? There's also the possibility she was calling him nonstop and made it difficult to get anything done. I have an 18 y.o. daughter who is on her cell phone constantly. The other info given indicates he was a control freak. I'd still beat the guy with his own phone if he pulled that shit and I was married to him. | |
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Stymie said: sosgemini said: i'm not reading any negativity or cattiness from her comments that would justify your response...after all, its her life to discuss. but, if you feel that way...you feel that way. [Edited 12/28/06 17:43pm] 1. There are 2 sides to every story. Prince, anytime now, can defend his honor. 2. The situations described have "abuse" written all over the place. 3. Mayte was very young when she married Prince who was twice her age 4. Blaming the victim is common 5. Prince's track record with personal/professional relationships is consistant enough for me to consider Mayte's statements credible.IMO. | |
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supregat said: wavesofbliss said: it seems like they both come from backgrounds where be controlled and mindless
not that i want to make any response in depth, but i don't enough about either of these individuals to make the assumptions regarding their backgrounds,their marriages or their futures. as yet. i have little insight into who they really are other than what they've chosen to make public. from here, i see some very focused, driven, spiritual, compassionate, intelligent, beautiful women who added their unique flavor to his life, music, knowledge and connection with the world. obviously he loved them, so i doubt they were completely unworthy or undeserving of his companionship. i do not see them as being purchased brides who were kept in captivity, and certainly they have learned from their time with him. i can imagine that it's very difficult to share their lives with a man they've chosen as well as with the public who judges them based on their information that is not often based in any kind of reality. i wish them well, everyone's burden in life is different, i certainly hope for them what i hope for anyone, that they are able to take lessons from what happened and do well for themselves - ultimately making the world a better place with the tools they now have at their disposal. i am sure as they build thier futures, if you care to, you'll have the chance to see who they chose to become. the most sensible thing i've read on this entire thread. thank you for the rationale. the wiser you get, the more wisdom you'll see in the world. | |
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xplnyrslf said: Stymie said: Yeah, it is her life to discuss but she, I am pretty sure, was asked not to discuss the Prince aspect of it. I never said she was being catty or negative and was responding solely to your post that Prince is the bad guy in all of this. Both shoulder the blame and since none of us were there, I find it hard to take Mayte's words at face value.
1. There are 2 sides to every story. Prince, anytime now, can defend his honor. 2. The situations described have "abuse" written all over the place. 3. Mayte was very young when she married Prince who was twice her age 4. Blaming the victim is common 5. Prince's track record with personal/professional relationships is consistant enough for me to consider Mayte's statements credible.IMO. 1. Maybe one day he will but seriously, their relationship is none of our business. 2. No one can treat you any way you don't allow them to. 3. And? 4. "Victim" implies something done to someone against their will. 5. I can concede that but once again, if her story's true, what part did she play? | |
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Stymie said: xplnyrslf said: 1. There are 2 sides to every story. Prince, anytime now, can defend his honor. 2. The situations described have "abuse" written all over the place. 3. Mayte was very young when she married Prince who was twice her age 4. Blaming the victim is common 5. Prince's track record with personal/professional relationships is consistant enough for me to consider Mayte's statements credible.IMO. 1. Maybe one day he will but seriously, their relationship is none of our business. 2. No one can treat you any way you don't allow them to. 3. And? 4. "Victim" implies something done to someone against their will. 5. I can concede that but once again, if her story's true, what part did she play? Women do not allow men to beat them up, however the woman is manipulated into believing it is her fault that it occurred or are told over and over again that it won't happen again. In essence, they are brainwashed into believing they are at fault. Mayte commented in the interview that she was young and thought the relationship was supposed to be this way, and had no other way to judge how a relationship was supposed to be. Now it could be that Prince manipulated the situation and made her feel all relationships are like that, or it could just be that it was as she stated, she was young, inexperienced, and really had no way to judge how a relationship should be. | |
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