sosgemini said:

I'm sorry but your comment in # 2 made me laugh. I wonder if people felt that way when he tried to push Nikka Costa's career? Not hardly. Frustrated by the hit and run tours with Tamar? No way, I've been to 2 of those shows and I must say I loved it. Prince was very personal with his fans at both shows and played guitar entirely through both shows and sang some songs with her as well.

Fans just need to get used to the new Prince in town and stop trying to go back 20 something odd years wishing he could fulfill their "personal" fantasy so to speak. Apparently those type of fans have a void somebody else needs to fill, get over it, it's a new Prince in town, with a new protege and her name is "Tamar" Watch out now!

silverandgold said:

once again your turning the discussion personal by telling fans to "get over it"...they have the right to their opinion...if you cream at the thought of prince chilling with tamar, "super". enjoy it...declare it here...but dont tell other fans how they should feel...if they want their prince up on stage all by their lonesome...thats their perogative...

how can you defend prince's right to be, do and say what he wants but then complain when folks here are, do and say what they want?

freedom is a two-way streak.

sosgemini said:

How am I turning it personal, when I am just stating my opinion just like everyone else? When I say "get over it", I am just saying either deal with it or don't. Never said they "can't say what they want about her". I was replying to their remarks about how I felt, regarding their remarks on Tamar, just like members here are replying to mine. How is giving my opinion about it any different from theirs? Did you not say "differing opinions" were welcome? Members have a right to their opinions? well don't I?

My point is when I give my opinion, the mods are quick to delete it because they or you are taking it personal or you wouldn't delete it. Seems to me the members are handling what I've stated pretty well.

Since most are complaining about Tamar performing with him and his band, and rather see Prince perform alone, then they have the choice of attending the show or not-don't they??? Who is stopping them?

If you see the billing states "Prince with special guest Tamar" or Tamar with special guest "Prince" then you know both will be on stage, so what's the problem when you get to the show knowing they will both be there? Everyone is not going to like certain performers, that's expected. But if I or anyone here mentions the real reason why we think most members are making the kind of remarks they have made about her, you say it's becoming personal or focuses too much on the race factor, yet you say, members have a right to state their opinion, please make up your mind. Yeah, ok.

Oh and as far as "creaming" how immature, says a lot about you , What does that have to do with me being proud ofPrince introducing this talented young lady to the world? Maybe "creaming" is a term you should use to describe how you feel everytime you see Prince performing on stage, I'm sure he's used to a lot of women doing that

For me, I'm just proud to be a fan of his music and appreciate it as well.

Carry on! (I'm sure it will just be a matter of time before you find a reason to delete my posts again or ban me, but what can I say, I'm just exercising my "right to my opinion")

silverandgold said:

huh? why are you being so defensive over me using "creaming"? i meant it as a positive...as in someone getting excited...see, once again your putting more weight, drama and intent then ever was there. i "cream" in my pants whenever i see meshell peforming...nothing negative about it.

re: turning it personal. you turn the topic personal when you make the issue about the person making the comment versus the actual topic. you just did it with my "creaming" statement...your adding motive thas isnt there.

and members are right to share their perspectives "on the topic". but when you infer that folks comments are clouded in racist well, that crosses the line of whats acceptable. and when thats done (regarless of it being your opinion) then you've broken org rules and your statements/threads/posts will be handled accordingly.

sosgemini said:

Oh I'm not being defensive about your use of the word "creaming", just laughing about it and still laughing. You claim my opinions are personal, that's on you. I don't think they are and that's my final opinion on the matter. I can truly see you enjoy reading my post though, seem more like you're taking it more personal that everyone else. Like I said, everything I have stated in my posts "still stands" regardless if they are deleted or if I am banned for it. As far as breaking org rules, I haven't broken any. You're just trying to find a reason to ban me and keep me from posting on this site, which would not surprise me , but if that does happen, then at least I'll know why, what can I say sh** happens.

I don't think silverandgold's post has anything to do with anyone being a fan of Tamar. I think her post speaks to individuals that call themselves fans of an artist that built their career around racial harmony and love4oneanother but then turn around and make racially offensive comments about his associates looks...then show up at his concert like they are down with what he's all about.

I think her post speaks to individuals that call themselves fans of an artist that built their career around racial harmony and love4oneanother but then turn around and make racially offensive comments about his associates looks...then show up at his concert like they are down with what he's all about.

It is very obvious that many have a problem with Tamar being a protege of Prince's because of the way she that looks ...dark-skin with traditional African features and because she has a sexy role.

She may have fetal alcohol syndromew caused by mothers drinking when they are pregnant and the resulting offspring looking like that, having small foreheads, low IQs and bleak prospects, like the boose version of crack babies.

silverandgold said:

You are seriously my new hero

Sos, why do you consistently chime in with that "we're all free to share our views" shit, when there are many of us who believe that we know what the underlying "problem with Tamar" is. No one is discrediting the other's views. But when the other's don't have a substantial reason other than "well I just think she's ugly her eyes are too far apart", it's nothing more than going deeper into the surface of a shallow answer. It just seems that you want discussion to take place on your terms. So far no one has been disrespectful to one another. Is it that we are only allowed to share views to a certain extent or we should only share views that are deemed acceptable to sosgemini?

BSK3601 said:

huh? let me make it clear, i dont moderate this forum...im simply trying to share with folks my own thinkings on why folks get so "bent" when it comes to discussing tamar and why i thought some of the mods have stepped in and taken action with it came to the tamar/mani/divorce topics.

and your right, nobody has been disrespectful of anyone else within this thread...thats why this thread has stayed open and folks comments werent snipped.

i would like to address the highlighted statement of yours...why cant "tamar is ugly because her eyes are wide" just be a superficial shallow responce? why does it have to be deeper? and if your curious to find out why someone thinks tamar is ugly why not just ask that person? instead of making conjecture and saying, "i think folks who think tamar are ugly are just a shade of racist who dont like dark sistas". a perfect example of this type of assault is rhondab. someone started to get in her face and accuse her of having deeper motives when it came to tamar's cloths when it wasnt deeper...she just thinks tamar dresses ugly...

ya hear what im saying?

silverandgold said:

once again your turning the discussion personal by telling fans to "get over it"...they have the right to their opinion...if you cream at the thought of prince chilling with tamar, "super". enjoy it...declare it here...but dont tell other fans how they should feel...if they want their prince up on stage all by their lonesome...thats their perogative...

how can you defend prince's right to be, do and say what he wants but then complain when folks here are, do and say what they want?

freedom is a two-way streak.

sosgemini said:

I can dig that, but using RhondaB is a bad example because most of us know that RhondaB is veteran orger who is very good at explaining her stance when an explanation is requested. Where's the room for open discussion if you're going to get all defensive on someone elses behalf if people like myself, silverandgold or anyone else challenges their original thought? I mean that's all fine and good if they just want to type statements like that and never appear in the thread again. But what's the harm in probing further opinions of those who appear in thread after thread about Tamar venting that same dislike for Tamar's appearance. I could leave the statement alone if it were qualified with a "I don't think people with wide eyes are attractive." But for some reason, Tamar has to be likened to down syndrome, aliens and crack babies. Honestly, I think Mayte's eyes were just as spread apart as Tamar's... don't believe me? Look at the Child of the Sun LP cover. I think race is the underlying reason and I don't see the harm in calling folks out on it especially when they don't prove otherwise.
[Edited 8/2/06 15:56pm]

Point taken waterinyourbath, however, I must state that this thread is mild compared to the numerous comments that I have read on here and on other Prince fan sites about Tamar's looks...dating back to February.

silverandgold said:

actually, i am enjoying this conversation...its an interesting topic...i have however highlighted another statement within your post that turns the subject personal. just so you get a feel of the issue im trying to point out. your making assumptions about me rather then discussing the topic with me.

understand?

silverandgold said:

You are seriously my new hero

Sos, why do you consistently chime in with that "we're all free to share our views" shit, when there are many of us who believe that we know what the underlying "problem with Tamar" is. No one is discrediting the other's views. But when the other's don't have a substantial reason other than "well I just think she's ugly her eyes are too far apart", it's nothing more than going deeper into the surface of a shallow answer. It just seems that you want discussion to take place on your terms. So far no one has been disrespectful to one another. Is it that we are only allowed to share views to a certain extent or we should only share views that are deemed acceptable to sosgemini?
[Edited 8/2/06 14:33pm]

sosgemini said:

But SOS the point of the matter is that if you don't care for her singing or clothes or whatever once you've given your don't keep hopping on threads and creating threads to insult the woman. And for the most part it's the same folks over and over popping up with the same bs.

By the way when I say "you" I mean it in general terms. Not you - SOS.


.
[Edited 8/2/06 16:55pm]

sosgemini said:

But SOS the point of the matter is that if you don't care for her singing or clothes or whatever once you've given your don't keep hopping on threads and creating threads to insult the woman. And for the most part it's the same folks over and over popping up with the same bs.

By the way when I say "you" I mean it in general terms. Not you - SOS.


.
[Edited 8/2/06 16:55pm]

sosgemini said:

But did you not do that to me? I have been warned not to turn this thread into a race-baiting thread, and that's not what I am doing. I am just stating honestly, just like everyone else here, why I feel there are an enormous amount of negative criticism by a lot of members here about Tamar. I don't see where I am breaking any rules here. It's my honest opinion, just like yours and everyone else’s.

I am not trying to sway anyone into agreeing with me on the matter, because there are those here that know what is “familiar” so to speak and can relate to the comments I made in my previous posts. I did not call anyone here any "racist" names, because I have no reason to do that, but to think that I am turning this whole conversation to race bait is ridiculous, just because I stated my beliefs and it concerned the “skin color” of an artist.

I entered this thread for the simple fact that I have noticed since Prince has introduced Tamar as his protege, the enormous negative criticism she has received and a lot of focus on her physical characteristics than her singing and performance, and I believe most of it is due to her “skin tone”. . So far. I've read on quite a few sites and here, comments like "she's thick, not pretty, where did he get her from, oh I wish he wouldn't have her at his next concert, she's not his type of protege, she needs to lose weight, she looks like a monkey, she's ugly, she’s too dark, he doesn’t like darker tone females, he should have picked a caramel-colored female, she's not his usual pick of girls." etc., etc., etc.

It's one thing to say she is not his "usual type", that's no surprise because of what most of us (including myself) have seen or have been used to seeing him with over the years, but come on, you have to be blind not to know what the underlying reason is for most of these negative comments, and it’s become more apparent since the announcement of his divorce. It's not the same as saying "oh I don't like what she is wearing" or "I don't think the way she sung a particular song at one of the shows was impressive to me". There just have been an extremely, large amount of negative criticism towards Tamar regarding her skin color and physical features, more than his previous female associates, and I bet behind closed doors and off these forums, the comments are even worse.

Now I can't stop anybody from feeling the way they do about her or how they feel seeing Prince perform with her, that’s not my job, but I have a right to point out why I feel most of these comments are being made, because that is “my right” just like everyone else’s here, and yes, regardless of the negative comments being made about Tamar in general and her association with Prince.

But I am not going to apologize for any of the comments I have made or change my opinion about it, and I don’t expect anyone else to change theirs, whether I liked what they said or not. I was honest and direct-- like you said, the site allows “differing opinions” and mine was one of them, but a bit more blunt and open. I stated what others might not have been comfortable saying, and that’s no reason to warn me about having my posts deleted or banned should I “cross the line.”

The only line I crossed is the “Truth” as I see it, so be it. By the way, glad you are enjoying the conversation.
[Edited 8/2/06 17:48pm]

Ifsixwuz9 said:

Ifsixwuz9 said:

but isnt that what makes the org such a fun place? and its not just tamar that gets this treatment...open up any madonna, janet, x-tina, mj or larry graham thread...you always get folks crapping on acts.

isnt that just the way it is?

silverandgold said:

yeah, your free to express yourself...but as far as i can see the line is crossed when someone directly responds to another persons post and "implies" that they might be racist...if the discussion was held in a polite, respectful and non-accusatory tone (such as this thread) then nobody is going to get their comments snipped or be banned.

ohh..and btw: i warned you about turning this thread into a discussion about race...because if you did the thread would be more appropriate for the p&r forum...i never warned you about race baiting...you can scroll up and re-read my comments if you want.
[Edited 8/2/06 18:06pm]

silverandgold said:

By the way I agree with most of what you've posted re: this subject on the various threads.

Ifsixwuz9 said:

ok, now this is really getting scary, both you and sosgemini are being nice, but thanks anyway,

silverandgold said:

What are you talking about? I think this may have been the first time I've ever responded to one of your posts about anything. Refresh my memory if I'm wrong.

sosgemini said:

As a matter of fact no it isn't the same. Before this girl sang note one she was being dogged.

We all know Janet can't sing a lick and is coasting on her celebrity and physical features. And Madonna can't play guitar and only the uber fans of hers think she's freaking Bonnie Raitt. I could go on but I think you get my drift.

Ifsixwuz9 said:

and what was tamar being dogged for? her horrible choice of cloths... some dogged her cause she was next to prince and they werent.

and the fact that she's got enough space between her eyes to land one of these:



it dont help.

theres just soo many golden oppurtunities for comedy with her...come on folks. she wore a freaken dress with duct tape down the middle of it.

There's a lot of naive optimism in those who don't face up to colour prejudice. As beautiful as Tamar is by African beauty standards it's not by chance that Beyonce, Mya, Ashanti, Ciara etc are all lighter skinned, in straight wigs and with less negroid features.

Tamar hasn't got the look to endear herself to western mainstream audiences. Both black and whites have been engineered to accept only the more dilluted versions of black womanhood and image is as important as the music itself to many. The dancing twins will always get more male attention than Tamar with their accessible look.

A lot of fans here just have problems with Prince finally embracing his black roots of course in recent times. Both via song lyrics and who he surrounds himself with.

sosgemini said:

And you were doing so well. I can see now that your post to silverandgold wasn't on the up and up so, nevermind.

sosgemini said:

And you were doing so well. I can see now that your post to silverandgold wasn't on the up and up so, nevermind.