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Printableebonyrhythmbuddha said: griffinw said: I'd like to add to this question, if I may. Prince has always used the latest in musical gear, across the board, and seems to freely mix between live drummers and programmed drums. In a relatively short period of time, Prince went from having your virtuosic pounding to having Kirk Johnson's (very cool but still) programmed rhythms. I guess my only question here is whether or not you can shed any light on the choices Prince was making. I mean, it seems clear to me that a live drummer of your calibre would be the preferable way to go; do you think Prince was going for a different vibe with the programmed drums, or what? And do you have any feelings on the issue that you'd care to share? Again, thanks so much for your time and for participating in this forum! -G from what i've witnessed, there's no exact science, and sometimes, no rhyme or super significant reason for why prince chooses what he chooses.. he doesn't have any hard fast rules about music. it comes down to what's available to him, or how long he'll have to wait, or just getting the idea down. prince works impulsively. he has an idea, and needs for it to come to it's fruition asap, usually. which means sometimes he doesn't wanna wait for an engineer to get good drum sounds.. especially if the linn machine is just sitting there, and the sounds are fat, coming directly out of it. also, some things are meant to sound organic, and others are not. real drums invoke a different feeling than programmed ones. it depends on the subject matter, what the other instruments are intended to do, but mostly just what sounds good. sometimes prince reworks a track from electronic to organic, sometimes vice-versa. we recorded a version of 319 that was pretty rocking, but prince didn't like it. so, another version was constructed from that one, which had no bass, and the drums were programmed. in my opinion, it was more effective this way.. there's also the harmonic angle.. i remember when we were working on material for rosie's solo album. i overheard prince telling her that she had the kind of voice that belonged in a more organic environment, musically. he didn't like the way she sounded, as much, when she was singing with machines. she has a classic sound, vocally.. which is why most of her stuff was recorded with a rhythm section, and not pieced together with loops, and keyboards with sequencers, and drum machines.. michael b. [Edited 6/13/06 1:59am] Thanks for such a thoughtful reply! This all makes sense... I remember a magazine interview that Prince gave with Bass Player back in '99 where he mentioned choosing his bass timbre (live or synth) based upon the tone of the kick drum, and your response above points towards a similar pragmatism. Another question: I got to thinking about the chemistry that you and Sonny Thompson have as a rhythm section, which is obviously borne of working together for so many years in so many different projects. (Not to mention the Combo--y'all sounded great last night, as usual! G-Sharp was cracking me up during "Reasons"...) But when I sit and really listen to the lines that Sonny is playing, they seem unpredictable--the man knows the fretboard so well that he seems to be able to play something that sounds like a solo right in the middle of a verse, and yet it all works together. My question is this: given his active style, how do you two stay so tight? Is it just the old funk princile of hitting the "one" together every time and then going your separate ways? Do you have private cues that you guys use? I imagine this question might not have an answer, but I figured I'd better ask it anyway. Again, thanks for chatting with us--and especially for posting a reply at 1:30 in the morning, right after you must have gotten back from Bunkers. You have inhuman stamina. -G | |
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MB,
We know that you are a well rounded drummer, but have you ever encountered a song in any of the projects you've worked in where you just simply either couldn't get the part down well or couldn't capture the feel? If so, how did it end up being resolved? If not, what song made you struggle the most? | |
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ebonyrhythmbuddha said: lenny kravitz, terence trent d'arby, and dallas austin
dallas austin, really? wow  | |
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griffinw said: ebonyrhythmbuddha said: from what i've witnessed, there's no exact science, and sometimes, no rhyme or super significant reason for why prince chooses what he chooses.. he doesn't have any hard fast rules about music. it comes down to what's available to him, or how long he'll have to wait, or just getting the idea down. prince works impulsively. he has an idea, and needs for it to come to it's fruition asap, usually. which means sometimes he doesn't wanna wait for an engineer to get good drum sounds.. especially if the linn machine is just sitting there, and the sounds are fat, coming directly out of it. also, some things are meant to sound organic, and others are not. real drums invoke a different feeling than programmed ones. it depends on the subject matter, what the other instruments are intended to do, but mostly just what sounds good. sometimes prince reworks a track from electronic to organic, sometimes vice-versa. we recorded a version of 319 that was pretty rocking, but prince didn't like it. so, another version was constructed from that one, which had no bass, and the drums were programmed. in my opinion, it was more effective this way.. there's also the harmonic angle.. i remember when we were working on material for rosie's solo album. i overheard prince telling her that she had the kind of voice that belonged in a more organic environment, musically. he didn't like the way she sounded, as much, when she was singing with machines. she has a classic sound, vocally.. which is why most of her stuff was recorded with a rhythm section, and not pieced together with loops, and keyboards with sequencers, and drum machines.. michael b. [Edited 6/13/06 1:59am] Thanks for such a thoughtful reply! This all makes sense... I remember a magazine interview that Prince gave with Bass Player back in '99 where he mentioned choosing his bass timbre (live or synth) based upon the tone of the kick drum, and your response above points towards a similar pragmatism. Another question: I got to thinking about the chemistry that you and Sonny Thompson have as a rhythm section, which is obviously borne of working together for so many years in so many different projects. (Not to mention the Combo--y'all sounded great last night, as usual! G-Sharp was cracking me up during "Reasons"...) But when I sit and really listen to the lines that Sonny is playing, they seem unpredictable--the man knows the fretboard so well that he seems to be able to play something that sounds like a solo right in the middle of a verse, and yet it all works together. My question is this: given his active style, how do you two stay so tight? Is it just the old funk princile of hitting the "one" together every time and then going your separate ways? Do you have private cues that you guys use? I imagine this question might not have an answer, but I figured I'd better ask it anyway. Again, thanks for chatting with us--and especially for posting a reply at 1:30 in the morning, right after you must have gotten back from Bunkers. You have inhuman stamina. -G sonny and i have played like that, since the first time he cane to bunker's to sit in.. this is pre-npg.. 1988, probably. we played "chameleon". it was like falling off a log. we were immediately on the same wavelength. sonny sometimes will play certain things from songs we both know, and that kinda works like a cue.. for instance, in the middle of the organ solo on "the payback" when we play it al bunker's, sonny sometimes will start playing a bass line from "luv and hate" by sly, from "there's a riot goin' on".. and i'll jump on it. we turn a corner for eight bars or so.. that's the just one example. but it could be any funky jam from 30 years ago, or earlier.. we know mostly all the same music.. that's what also helps us to lock. we both hear time, the same way. admittedly, i'm simplifying, for the sake of maintaining an informative, and rational response. but, many times, sonny and i will both play the exact same figure, rhythmically, out of thin air, literally. there's a telekinesis between he and i that defies explanation, to be perfectly honest. it's really strange. michael b. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: MB,
We know that you are a well rounded drummer, but have you ever encountered a song in any of the projects you've worked in where you just simply either couldn't get the part down well or couldn't capture the feel? If so, how did it end up being resolved? If not, what song made you struggle the most? every situation has it's difficulties. hard to explain. i guess the hardest part about doing what i do, is having the foresight to know what will still sound good, long after the recording session is over and done. all music, for me, is hard, in that respect. you have to figure out what's important, and be willing to commit to an idea or approach, that might make you sick to hear, later on. michael b. | |
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ebonyrhythmbuddha said:
sonny and i have played like that, since the first time he cane to bunker's to sit in.. this is pre-npg.. 1988, probably. we played "chameleon". it was like falling off a log. we were immediately on the same wavelength. sonny sometimes will play certain things from songs we both know, and that kinda works like a cue.. for instance, in the middle of the organ solo on "the payback" when we play it al bunker's, sonny sometimes will start playing a bass line from "luv and hate" by sly, from "there's a riot goin' on".. and i'll jump on it. we turn a corner for eight bars or so.. that's the just one example. but it could be any funky jam from 30 years ago, or earlier.. we know mostly all the same music.. that's what also helps us to lock. we both hear time, the same way. admittedly, i'm simplifying, for the sake of maintaining an informative, and rational response. but, many times, sonny and i will both play the exact same figure, rhythmically, out of thin air, literally. there's a telekinesis between he and i that defies explanation, to be perfectly honest. it's really strange. michael b.[/quote] I can easily believe that you and Sonny have a musical connection that can't be put into words; you sure play like it. Your example was great--interpellating "Luv n Haight" into "Payback"--I haven't noticed that before (though I made the mistake of leaving before the third set this past monday). You and Sonny are an education in the history of funk, all by yourselves--I've been listening to "Riot" and my copy of JB's "Star Time" box all day so that I can refamiliarize myself with the subtle differences in drums and bass on all those songs. Speaking of, are there any old albums (aside from "Riot") that you find yourself putting on when you need inspiration or sustenance? Or have you internalized the music of 30 years ago to the extent that you don't need to bother playing the LPs at all? Alternately, are there any contemporary artists that you'd want to name whose music inspires you, or are you too busy playing to listen to much new music? Thanks again, and much respect to you. | |
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griffinw said: ebonyrhythmbuddha said:
sonny and i have played like that, since the first time he cane to bunker's to sit in.. this is pre-npg.. 1988, probably. we played "chameleon". it was like falling off a log. we were immediately on the same wavelength. sonny sometimes will play certain things from songs we both know, and that kinda works like a cue.. for instance, in the middle of the organ solo on "the payback" when we play it al bunker's, sonny sometimes will start playing a bass line from "luv and hate" by sly, from "there's a riot goin' on".. and i'll jump on it. we turn a corner for eight bars or so.. that's the just one example. but it could be any funky jam from 30 years ago, or earlier.. we know mostly all the same music.. that's what also helps us to lock. we both hear time, the same way. admittedly, i'm simplifying, for the sake of maintaining an informative, and rational response. but, many times, sonny and i will both play the exact same figure, rhythmically, out of thin air, literally. there's a telekinesis between he and i that defies explanation, to be perfectly honest. it's really strange. michael b. I can easily believe that you and Sonny have a musical connection that can't be put into words; you sure play like it. Your example was great--interpellating "Luv n Haight" into "Payback"--I haven't noticed that before (though I made the mistake of leaving before the third set this past monday). You and Sonny are an education in the history of funk, all by yourselves--I've been listening to "Riot" and my copy of JB's "Star Time" box all day so that I can refamiliarize myself with the subtle differences in drums and bass on all those songs. Speaking of, are there any old albums (aside from "Riot") that you find yourself putting on when you need inspiration or sustenance? Or have you internalized the music of 30 years ago to the extent that you don't need to bother playing the LPs at all? Alternately, are there any contemporary artists that you'd want to name whose music inspires you, or are you too busy playing to listen to much new music? Thanks again, and much respect to you.[/quote] the touchstones of my music collection haven't changed, since i don't know when.. it's pretty much all about "fresh" by sly, "abbey road" by the beatles, a ray charles box set, "lovesexy", "everybody likes some kind of music" by billy preston, and "english settlement" by xtc. anything else is a minor deviation, whether it's old or new music.. michael b. [Edited 6/14/06 19:12pm] | |
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ebonyrhythmbuddha said: the touchstones of my music collection haven't changed, since i don't know when.. it's pretty much all about "fresh" by sly, "abbey road" by the beatles, a ray charles box set, "lovesexy", "everybody likes some kind of music" by billy preston, and "english settlement" by xtc. anything else is a minor deviation, whether it's old or new music.. michael b. [Edited 6/14/06 19:12pm] Thanks for the insight! I'm putting "Fresh" on right now. The first time I ever saw the NPG with you playing drums was the night y'all were filming the "Gold Experience" video, and if memory serves, one of the songs you guys played with Prince (during a half-hour or so set that you treated us to in between shots) was a cover of Sly's cover of "Que Sera Sera." That's one of my greatest memories of seeing your version of the band. I noticed that you mentioned "Lovesexy" among your musical touchstones, and I certainly think that's an important album. I'm curious, though: it seems like "Parade" is the (early) Prince album that gets name-checked more by people who move in funk and hip-hop circles these days. Can you tell us anything about why "Lovesexy" in particular moves/interests you? Is it the drumming in particular, or the overall musicality and message? (And do you have any thoughts on "Parade"?) -G | |
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the touchstones of my music collection haven't changed, since i don't know when.. it's pretty much all about "fresh" by sly, "abbey road" by the beatles, a ray charles box set, "lovesexy", "everybody likes some kind of music" by billy preston, and "english settlement" by xtc. anything else is a minor deviation, whether it's old or new music..
Michael, did you ever tell Prince of your admiration of the 'lovesexy' album? I wonder if he even knows how a great it was. I knw he toured behind it but he tours behind every album... | |
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griffinw said: ebonyrhythmbuddha said: the touchstones of my music collection haven't changed, since i don't know when.. it's pretty much all about "fresh" by sly, "abbey road" by the beatles, a ray charles box set, "lovesexy", "everybody likes some kind of music" by billy preston, and "english settlement" by xtc. anything else is a minor deviation, whether it's old or new music.. michael b. [Edited 6/14/06 19:12pm] Thanks for the insight! I'm putting "Fresh" on right now. The first time I ever saw the NPG with you playing drums was the night y'all were filming the "Gold Experience" video, and if memory serves, one of the songs you guys played with Prince (during a half-hour or so set that you treated us to in between shots) was a cover of Sly's cover of "Que Sera Sera." That's one of my greatest memories of seeing your version of the band. I noticed that you mentioned "Lovesexy" among your musical touchstones, and I certainly think that's an important album. I'm curious, though: it seems like "Parade" is the (early) Prince album that gets name-checked more by people who move in funk and hip-hop circles these days. Can you tell us anything about why "Lovesexy" in particular moves/interests you? Is it the drumming in particular, or the overall musicality and message? (And do you have any thoughts on "Parade"?) -G "parade" was, in fact, the first prince album i heard where it was evident to me that he was a genius. before i heard that one, i didn't really consider myself a fan of his music. there's alot of things about "lovesexy" that i dug. the horn arrangements, the mixes, the songs, etc. i especially dig the fact that he only was given something like 6 weeks to turn in a record to replace "the black album", and he churned out a masterpiece.. i thought it was a brave work, in every way, really. michael b. | |
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Ronny said: the touchstones of my music collection haven't changed, since i don't know when.. it's pretty much all about "fresh" by sly, "abbey road" by the beatles, a ray charles box set, "lovesexy", "everybody likes some kind of music" by billy preston, and "english settlement" by xtc. anything else is a minor deviation, whether it's old or new music..
Michael, did you ever tell Prince of your admiration of the 'lovesexy' album? I wonder if he even knows how a great it was. I knw he toured behind it but he tours behind every album... i found it somewhat difficult to talk to prince about past musical victories. he always seemed to re-focus the conversation on something new he was working on. i don't think he used to enjoy looking back, all that much. | |
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