Just thought of this today...

Prince is something of a New Romantic himself - not in the English sense of someone who was there for the Blitz days - but he is a "romantic" in the artistic sense of the word, as well as the punk energy/funk fusion that the New Romantics represent... And after all, he did adopt his style after attending a New Romantic party, according to DMSR...

But I digress. Was the family Prince's attempt at creating a true New Romantic group? All the elements are there... mixed-ethnic band & influences, retro glamour... and I do remember a quote from DMSR about Prince going after the "Duran Duran money" (haven't replaced my burnt copy of DMSR yet, so can't exactly find the page for you)...

Thoughts?

Under the Cherry Moon and The Family's whole "Casablanca" look gives me more interwar Hollywood/Parisien glamour than a real New Romantic vibe. I think there were even references to Life Magazine (circa 1940) in some of The Family's photography. But I'd say New Romanticism is undeniable in Prince's early '80's style and sound. And it definitely had a part in what he was doing with Sheila's band in 1985! Though her album that year was "Romance 1600," her band's look and even some of their lyrics were more indicative of a "Romance 1800s" air! Check out the clothes on Sheila's lead guitarist Sir Stephen. Look at that sweeping, frosted hair and high makeup on both guys and gals. Remember that huge Victorian-era hat Sheila had on in the "Sister Fate" video? And Check out lines like...

(From A LOVE BIZAARE)
"A strawberry mind, a body that's built 4 2
A kiss on the spine, we do things we never do
Come swallow the pride and joy of the ivory tower
We'll dance on the roof, make love on a bed of flowers."

or

(From ROMANCE 1600)
"I was all alone
When the doorbell rang
Going 4 my own
A narcissistic thang
He was dressed in red
A mask covered his eyes
Something 4 my head
He said he had a big surprise..."
(...And then this mysterious stranger procedes to take Sheila to a masquerade orgy!!)

Is that not totally Byronesque -- maybe even Gothic!?!?

I think our hero was definitely influenced by this aesthetic.

...Also, I think that "Duran Duran money" quote was made in reference to Prince's project with the band the Three O'clock. And I think you definitely got a case on those guys...

Lammastide said:

Prince did virtually nothing with this group... The band existed before signing with PP...they signed to his label for one album and he tossed them a song but otherwise he was pretty hands off, IIRC.

jtfolden said:

Yeah, aside from Neon Telephone, Prince didn't actively do much for them, apparently. But I wonder if he was into them in the first place because of an affinity for their retro sound and style. Also, I wonder if he didn't prod them at least a bit further in that direction than they'd intended. I've read that part of the reason they broke up is because their sound became immediately too "poppy" and their look too pretty upon signing to Paisley Park.

nah, the family just sound like prince with st paul singing. Which is exactly what he did with the time at the beginning, except morris was singing.

Image wise? It was a self indulgent project, and WB musta known not to bother wasting much money on it LOL, but its got its moments (could do without the humdrum instrumentals though)

Yeah, the 'Duran Duran money' comment was made in reference to The Family.

I think what you have in the Family is a couple of things - Firstly, the project began as a continuation of the Time, after Jesse and Morris departed, only with white singers (hence the Duran Duran money comment). Adding Susannah into the mix gave them a unique twist I think, instead of just being The Time with a white singer, now there was chance to play with the image/marketing of a male/female lead duo. (Shame that never got a chance to pan out more).

Secondly, I think The Family project was, just like The Time and Vanity 6, a chance for Prince to put out some stuff, he wanted to try out, but didn't want to necessarily put out on his own albums immediately - it allowed him to try out more horns, the strings (which give the album a very cinematic, 'lush' sound), and a romanticised image - All of which surfaced later on Parade (I see the image/sound of The Family, as very much a precursor to Parade).

Where as The Time and Vanity 6 were New Wave Funk, their replacements - The Family and Sheila E. were influenced by the New Romantic look (as Prince was, ruffles and all) - As Lammastide said above, you see this in the image of themes of Romance 1600 (in the title track, and the video to Sister Fate and artwork).

The instrumentals on the Family are also nodding towards what Prince and Eric would later do with Madhouse.

Ahh... I stand corrected. I thought the "Duran Duran money" comment was about the Three O'Clock.

I still think, though, that peerhaps his interest in them had to do with their whole Paisley Underground sound and aesthetic.

Lammastide said:

I didn't even think to look to the Sheila! Thanks for the tip. I'm going to dig up some pictures for comparison fun. (I had them all up in my school locker. )

The "flower" bit reminds me of the flowers all over the PR album and "When Doves Cry" video. It was definitely a flowery era. Then he himself, a few years later, blooming like a big ol' flower on the cover of Lovesexy... but I digress.

As for the costuming yen, oh my. Can't do anything without the right OUTFIT! The true New Romantics are consistently obsessed, I find, with dress, style and aesthetics in general.

That said, let's get back to the Family... Do you remember some of the New Romantic videos that were very much "old" Hollywood? Not merely a return to the 60s Connery Bond years, but a very classic 40s look (even 30s) informed by appropriation of the Teddy Boy subculture, which was still around at that time... as well as older Hollywood.

I'm thinking of some of the ABC videos (Poisoned Arrow, uniforms galore), Planet Earth (you see a 30s-style woman in there), Spandau Ballet's "Gold"... I'll think of more.

Anyway, they were heavy imitators of Bowie who experienced his own nostalgic return to the 30s in his "Berlin" era, until he jumped on the NR bandwagon himself (appropriate, as he had helped create it )...

From a personal standpoint, I loved the New Romantics and was equally obsessed with old Hollywood... I guess that's why I see it all over these videos.

Thanks again for your 2 cents.

NouveauDance said:

And apparently Duran boys were quite the fans of Parade...

Since the 60s there has been so many interesting exchanges between British and American pop artists. That said, groups like Duran and Culture club wanted consciously to put the funk back into pop... they loved the energy of punk, but one British punk objective was to create a uniquely "white" music, which would have nothing to do with original black influences. Apparently this idea couldn't last long and remain mainstream.

I'd have to agree with the comment made about the vibe being more Parisien with the Family and UTCM, than New Romantic. I've listened to the Family album a whole lotta times (see username for proof of obsession ) and it's never struck me as New Romantic. For me New Romantic means the earlier music of the genre, such as early Spandau, early Human League, when he still had that ridiculous haircut. By the time Duran were big the sound was a lot more diluted.

Eighties, yes, but not New Romantic....IMO!

Heiress said:

Trying to visualise the mess Boy George or Simon Le Bon's faces would get in if they ever came into contact wth some real punks....

susannah said:

Err, you're talking about the difference between, say, music from 1980 vs. music from 1981? That's a pretty short time frame for a sound to get diluted... In other words - what exactly, in your opinion, is the "essence of New Romantic?"

After all, the parties at Billy's that got the whole New Romantic thing started took place when - in 1979? Didn't D2 start the first version of their band (J Taylor & Rhodes) in 1979 as well?

As far as an "early" NR sound goes, I'd always equate that with Japan more than any other band... but that's just me, perhaps. Kind of "artsy, Bowie, obsession with all things Japanese..."

susannah said:

Ah OK, I'll excuse you for that remark, as I see you are only 22...

That said, Le Bon was a nice, middle-class boy... but Boy George was a definite ruffian, my dear... Many, if not most, New Romantics were of working-class background, I believe.

oh yes, one more thought on youth subcultures... from what i can see, it's always been skinheads & teds who were the truly mean ones, not the punks... after all, what does the word "punk" mean?

enough of all that for today.

Heiress said:

I was actually comparing the difference between music from 80/81 with that of 1985, by the time all those bands were diluted, and when the Family was released.

I also said "IMO".... so please dont use my age against me - theres nothing I can do about that! Except for try to learn about what came before

Oh, and Im not arguing that George wasnt a ruffian, Im sure he was, but he was a cross-dressing homosexual, and that gets you beaten up in many cultures

That was all!

susannah said:

I think that's pretty dern cool that a 22-year-old would be such a Family fan, actually. Props to you for that.

The New Romantic "period," as it were, is anywhere from 79-85; but I'd feel free to call any of the relevant bands who came out in that period a New Romantic - if they're still around today. After all, it's about the attitude, more than anything - the sound of a given band will always evolve.

George was also a big ol' bruiser! Oh boy. I just got done reading "Take it like a man," his autobiography... he loves, fights, drugs, oh my goodness... terrifying! I wouldn't cross him fer nothing!

Heiress said:

Bruiser eh?!

Well thankyou, but that is the mere tip of the iceberg in terms of musical taste

I see where you would make the connection to New Romantic with the Family, but I dunno, I think there were different influences, along with what was..."popular", so to speak, at the time...

Interesting question though, by the way!

susannah said:

What do you see as the larger influences? I mean, I'm interested in your opinion of this, as a big fan of the band...

Heiress said:

Well, I guess the same as Prince's at the time. Ive never really thought about it actually. What Lammastide said about a Hollywood/Paris glamour thing seems really accurate, when you look at UTCM and Parade, as well as the Family and the Rvolutions style at that time. Also a healthy dose of the general musical vibe at the time, in the early-mid 80s, which as you quite rightly said, I cant really comment on with too much depth because I wasnt there. But the New Romanticism does seem to be a factor, whether it was just in the background, as "what everyone else was doing", or whether it was a direct influence I dont know.

I cant seem to think of any larger influence of the sound itself...apart from an outlet for Prince. Maybe Ive heard it too much to be capable of unbiased comment! Can you think of anything else?

susannah said:

I guess what I've seen, somewhat, is that Prince's influences were also, say, Duran Duran's influences... in other words, they were white boys who listened to black music, and wanted to fuse the energy of punk with funk; and Prince was a black boy who listened to white rock music as well, and wanted to integrate both influences into his sound and not be sterotyped... he definitely had that punkish attitude, by the time of Dirty Mind.

and all of the above are among some of the most dandyish men this woman has ever seen... st. paul too, as well as morris day - dandies all.

that's kind of what i have on my mind at this moment, but i'm working w/ aesthetics and not merely the music on this subject.

Heiress said:

Yeah thata all pretty fair to say...I cant say Ive ever thought much further than Bowie in terms of New Romantic's influences, so I can treally compare them. Never really had a lot of time for the genre...

Well, I hope you get some better answers from others!!

susannah said:

Quite all right! Bowie was the grandpa of it all.

One of the biggest aspects of the classic Romantics that Bowie copped was the concept of creating distinct personas and characters to externalize internal conflicts. With Ziggy Stardust, The Thin White Duke and others, Bowie used characters to dramatatize his inner struggles, and to accentuate his message in his art. Prince, perhaps more than any other artist of the New Romantic movement, has taken this idea and run with it. Early on in his career, he was creating characters such as Jamie Starr, and was giving himself "rivals" in the form of Morris Day's character as frontperson for The Time.



The character that Prince crafted, through Morris, was that of a dark doppleganger. Whereas Prince celebrated love and sensuality, Morris was all about sexual gratification. Morris was a gigalo, hustling women and worshipping the almighty dollar. He was suave, debonair, vain and witty. He never really seemed to take anything seriously, other than one-upping his competition. In short, Morris was all the negative things that Prince saw in himself. The film of Purple Rain incorporated the Morris character as the primary nemesis for Prince. Prince was creating a mythological world, with a utopian "Uptown" as the centerpiece, and all the characters populating it where from his own mind.



When Morris abruptly left the band, Prince was left without a rival within his own, mythological world he was crafting. He shifted focus from "Uptown" to the new, psychedelic world of "Paisley Park". The aesthetics of Prince's projects shifted to a more Beatles-eque look, but still fell squarely within the realm of the New Romantics (it is important to note that The Beatles themselves used plenty of classic Romantic ideas. If Bowie is the father of the New Romantic movement, then John, Paul, George and Ringo were certainly its grandparents)



Once again, he set out to filling this universe with a cast of characters. Sheila E and her band were assigned classic, Romantic clothing on album artwork and in videos. Prince, however, still needed a foil. He chose Paul Peterson from The PR era lineup of The Time. No doubt, Prince saw in Peterson the opportunity to further reel in white listeners by having his sound coming from a white fronted band. He was young, clean cut and good-looking, lending to possible marketing potential as a teen idol. Still, it goes much deeper than this.



Prince reportedly wanted to mold Paul into a new rival for him. Rechristened "St. Paul" (a nod to the Twin cities), Peterson was instructed to imitate Prince vocally as much as possible. Peterson seemed confused by this, but it seems obvious in retrospect: St. Paul was to be another extension of Prince's psyche. The Family were all decked out in pajamas, a la Hugh Hefner, and were photographed in black and white to give them a "classic Hollywood" appearance. Like Morris, St. Paul bragged about how much money he had, and sang songs about scoring rich girls. Unlike Mr. Day, St. Paul seemed to have interests beyond those of money and sex. His sensitive side shows up in songs like "Nothing Compares 2 U" and "Desire". It seems that Prince intended to give this rival more depth and character than he had previously.

St. Paul was paired with Prince's then-fiancee, Susannah Melvion, as the "love interest" within The Family. It has been suggested that this was the set-up to a possible film project down the line, where Prince and St. Paul would battle for the affections of Melvion.

All this is deeply steeped in the ideals of The New Romantics. The Family's aesthetic is that of glamorous, classic Hollywood, which frequently was referenced by many New Romantics. Musically, it leaned more on the funk/R&B side, but the keyboards were still quite prominent (and many of the NR artists incorporated funk and other black music into their sound. Bowie's "Fame" is one of the best examples). The very concept of the band as a way of Prince expressing his own inner turmoil is a classic Romantic concept.

JediMaster said:

Thank you, as always Jedi, for taking the time to break it all down...

I agree wholeheartedly with the protegee-as-personality extension idea. Didn't get to expand on that as much as I would have liked in my first Prince paper, because it went quite overlong as it was.

Do you see Morris as an Dionysian rival, and St. Paul as the more Apollonian, then? Prince's "two sides, and we're both friends" as it were? Interesting that the externalization of the side with deeper, more complex qualities found in the St. Paul persona didn't go farther... whatever "light" was in St. Paul had to remain in Prince's persona, whereas Morris was free to be an absolutely evil, comic character.

It's a terrible pity St. Paul was never fleshed out as a more complex rival... there was so much interesting potential for conflict - maybe Prince as the black side of the twin cities, St. Paul as the white side. So appropriate he would be born in a TWIN city, just incredible. Here we are, back to twinship again...

If we're going back to Romantic rock performers, let's start with Elvis. After all, you have remarked a resemblance in the young Elvis and the young Simon Le Bon, right? Tune-wise, it would seem Prince is more Beatle-esque, but I can hardly see how anyone who cares about rock could hardly escape from under the shadow of Elvis... how about those COSTUMES? Was he not rather glam himself?



Lots of food for thought here!

Heiress said:

Elvis certainly had a dash of the Romantic in him, no doubt about it. Whether that was intentional on his part, or something that he absorbed from some of his black heroes, I cannot say.

FANTASTIC observation about Morris being Dionysian, and St. Paul being Apollonian. I think you're DEAD-ON with that one.

Of course, the reason the whole thing with St Paul wasn't developed further is due to his quitting the band, which has always seemed like a crying shame to me. There was a real opportunity there for an interesting, new myth to play out. I think it was at this point that Prince decided to further flesh out the alter-egos he had created for himself, and put less emphasis on his protege's performances of those roles. Camille took on a life of his/her own shortly thereafter, and seemed to become the single biggest representation of his conflicts with light & darkness, eros & agape, and anima & animus within his work.

JediMaster said:

Did you ever note the physical resemblance between Elvis and Lord Byron? I must have talked about it before... Paglia wrote a couple of pages about that in Sexual Personae, noting that Elvis demonstrated a sort of "archetypal male beauty." All the Duran boys kind of do, in different ways.

I might have to pose a picture of Morris Day next to Paul Peterson, in my report... Along with this:

Hmm, just had a thought... could these guys be cousins?

I always thought St. Paul looked like a young James T. Kirk on the Lp cover. That's just me, though!!!!!

JediMaster said:

As usual great post Jedi. I can tell you really put a lot of thought into your posts.