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Morris and Jesse's decision 2 leave As I am reading DMSR....the part about the defection of Morris and Jesse and just recently I re-read the Rolling Stone article from last year where Prince spoke about the Time joining on a few Musicology dates. Saying this was how the Purple Rain tour was suppose to be. In hindsight as a fan I feel slighted. Imagine that....the Puprle Rain tour with Shelia, the Time and P and the Revolution!!!!! The music would've been great, P's guitar work would've gone up with Jesse lighting a fire under dat ass,Time vs.Revolution II.....the $$$$ would've been monstrous.
As I read DMSR I can't help but wonder if Morris and Jesse regret their decision. Had they at least rode that tour out, that most certainly would have put them in better finances. It's no way you can tell me summer of 84 Morris is sittin' in LA broke with no direction, watching PR blow up thinking "I'm gonna make it on my own". He couldn't even afford a ticket to the opening!!!!! Of course had this happened the Family wouldn't have come out.....as much as I like that album i would've been happy seeing the 84 Time live. Jesse's solo release may have been delayed but he may have sold more units had he done the PR tour and then defected. I think had they reconsidered, in spite of P's firm grip, they may be in better positions right now..... | |
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In 1984,there were tentative plans for The Time to do their own headlining tour,with Apollonia 6 as the opening act.Both groups broke up,so the tour never materialized. | |
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either proposed tour would have certainly put the Time and both gentlemen in better future positions. I'm sure over time both Morris and Jesse have probably wished things went down a little differently. | |
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Yep. Their fortunes would've been a lot different methinks. But most of all, the fans would've benefitted - seeing the Time on the PR tour or their own tour in 84 would've been mind blowing. I hate when egos clash and people can't just go out and do it for music's sake. ~And even when I'm right, I'll be wrong...it's Automatic too. | |
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I still think it was a huge mistake for The Time to breakup when they did.In 1984,they were at the height of their popularity.Thanks to "Purple Rain",the pop audience were finally getting into their music.If they had done their own headlining tour in the fall/winter of 1984,it would have been HUGE,just like Prince's own tour.Can you imagine getting a few more Time albums in the 80s?
When they finally reunited in 1990,it was too late.The thrill was gone,and hip-hop had taken over.Funk bands were becoming irrelevent. | |
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Although I would have loved more albums from The Time, when I look back, Morris and Jesse left at the perfect time. The Time may have been a group but they were still a group controlled mostly by Prince. Prince was probably keeping most of the profits also.
The "Purple Rain" era was the last time Prince was feeling his "Minneapolis Sound". He would have put some classical orchestra bullshit on The Time's late 1980s albums and they would have become just as big a joke as Prince became during that era. Actually, they would have become a bigger joke because their audience was mostly the R&B crowd (a large part of which left Prince because of this style change). Instead, Morris and Jesse had some great solo albums during the mid to late 1980s that were well loved while DJs were playing snips of "Do U Lie" and callers were calling in laughing their asses off. I'm sure they were making more money also because Prince wasn't controlling the albums and taking all the profits. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: Although I would have loved more albums from The Time, when I look back, Morris and Jesse left at the perfect time. The Time may have been a group but they were still a group controlled mostly by Prince. Prince was probably keeping most of the profits also.
The "Purple Rain" era was the last time Prince was feeling his "Minneapolis Sound". He would have put some classical orchestra bullshit on The Time's late 1980s albums and they would have become just as big a joke as Prince became during that era. Actually, they would have become a bigger joke because their audience was mostly the R&B crowd (a large part of which left Prince because of this style change). Instead, Morris and Jesse had some great solo albums during the mid to late 1980s that were well loved while DJs were playing snips of "Do U Lie" and callers were calling in laughing their asses off. I'm sure they were making more money also because Prince wasn't controlling the albums and taking all the profits. Actually, seeing how big the Time were becomimg in 84', I think Prince would have let them (especially Morris, Jesse, Jellybean and maybe St. Paul) hhve a bigger role in the studio. Prince could see that Jungle Love was a big hit an would have started a sound similar. PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever ----- Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It | |
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Morris didn't have any great solo albums!!!! that alone is funny.He had a few good singles. Had the Time stayed together.....Prince my have stayed a little more funkier. Parade may have been done differently. Either way it would have been 1 hellva show to see the movie play itself out live with the bands battling. | |
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All of these things said, it brings me back to a post I did a couple weeks ago. Did Morris receive the bulk of the money that Prince didn't take from the time's albums? As far as he and Jesse leaving when they did, what were they going to do? Stay and make the small salaries that Prince paid them forever? Color of success sold well. Daydreaming sold realtively well. All of Jesse's albums except maybe Bare my naked soul sold pretty well. I
I don't think Morris was BROKE in the summer of '84 however, and he was about to make a lot more money. |
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Even IF The Time had stayed together, Prince wouldn't have given them any more studio time. The Time was PRINCE'S band. It is what Prince would sound like if he had a funk band. There is no way that Prince would step back and allow that.
That said, it was unfortunate that The Time didn't participate on the P.R. tour. Seeing both bands against each other would have led them into a great competition that pushed each to the stratosphere. I doubt Prince would have EVER added orchestra to their sound. Listen to Corporate World, or even some of the songs that were written for The Time during that period (Movie Star, etc.)... they all maintained the funk. Morris was just riding high on his new stardom. From what I understand, Prince and Morris got along fine while recording Ice Cream Castles in the winter/spring of 84. It sounds like if Morris was angry at Prince, he was just as angry at the rest of The Time. Remember it was Morris that walked out on the band's last performance in October of 83, leaving the band confused. The expanded version of my book PRINCE and The Purple Rain Era Studio Sessions 1983-1984 was released in November 2018. (www.amazon.com/gp/product/1538114623/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0) or www.facebook.com/groups/1...104195943/ | |
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vainandy said: Although I would have loved more albums from The Time, when I look back, Morris and Jesse left at the perfect time. The Time may have been a group but they were still a group controlled mostly by Prince. Prince was probably keeping most of the profits also.
The "Purple Rain" era was the last time Prince was feeling his "Minneapolis Sound". He would have put some classical orchestra bullshit on The Time's late 1980s albums and they would have become just as big a joke as Prince became during that era. Actually, they would have become a bigger joke because their audience was mostly the R&B crowd (a large part of which left Prince because of this style change). Instead, Morris and Jesse had some great solo albums during the mid to late 1980s that were well loved while DJs were playing snips of "Do U Lie" and callers were calling in laughing their asses off. I'm sure they were making more money also because Prince wasn't controlling the albums and taking all the profits. Actually,I don't think Prince would have messed with The Time's formula.He knew that they were primarily a funk band and I doubt that he would have taken them in the same "classical orchestra" direction that he was venturing into.Did you ever hear the Mazarati album? I think that's where The Time would have been headed.Some of those songs ("100 MPH") would have been given to The Time. | |
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vainandy said: The "Purple Rain" era was the last time Prince was feeling his "Minneapolis Sound". He would have put some classical orchestra bullshit on The Time's late 1980s albums and they would have become just as big a joke as Prince became during that era. Actually, they would have become a bigger joke because their audience was mostly the R&B crowd (a large part of which left Prince because of this style change). Instead, Morris and Jesse had some great solo albums during the mid to late 1980s that were well loved while DJs were playing snips of "Do U Lie" and callers were calling in laughing their asses off. You mean like the Clare Fischer strings Morris Day himself used on his "Daydreaming" track "A Man's Pride"? I could go on to ask you not to presume to speak for all Black fans like myself who didn't feel "betrayed" by ATWIAD and Parade, but why bother? DavidEye said: When they finally reunited in 1990,it was too late.The thrill was gone,and hip-hop had taken over.Funk bands were becoming irrelevent. Isn't that a bit of revisionist history? I seem to remember "Jerk Out" being all over MTV and BET as well as Black and Top 40 radio (something that would be unheard of now that hip-hop really HAS taken over to the exclusion of all else) and I think it was even a Top 10 Pop hit (if I'm wrong about that I'm sure someone will point that out). I recall the lack of a strong follow-up single and video being put out after "Jerk Out" had peaked, and by the time "Chocolate" (a poor choice and even poorer video IMHO) was released the momentum of "Pandemonium" had passed. [Edited 12/21/05 3:18am] [Edited 12/21/05 4:37am] |
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"JerkOut" did okay as a single,but the reunion didn't exactly live up to expectations."Chocolate" bombed as a single,and a planned tour was scrapped (before the album was released,Jimmy Jam said that if it sells 2 million copies,The Time will tour).Imagine if The Time had stayed together,completed a lengthy "Ice Cream Castles" tour in 1984,then followed it up with a strong follow-up album in 1985.The masses would have ate it up,and they could have been the most successful funk band of the 80s. | |
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JQuad said: Morris didn't have any great solo albums!!!! that alone is funny.He had a few good singles
I agree.His solo albums are a mess,imo.Too many damn synthesizers! The songs sound too much alike.There's nothing exciting like "The Stick" or "777-9311" on his solo albums. | |
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DavidEye said: vainandy said: Although I would have loved more albums from The Time, when I look back, Morris and Jesse left at the perfect time. The Time may have been a group but they were still a group controlled mostly by Prince. Prince was probably keeping most of the profits also.
The "Purple Rain" era was the last time Prince was feeling his "Minneapolis Sound". He would have put some classical orchestra bullshit on The Time's late 1980s albums and they would have become just as big a joke as Prince became during that era. Actually, they would have become a bigger joke because their audience was mostly the R&B crowd (a large part of which left Prince because of this style change). Instead, Morris and Jesse had some great solo albums during the mid to late 1980s that were well loved while DJs were playing snips of "Do U Lie" and callers were calling in laughing their asses off. I'm sure they were making more money also because Prince wasn't controlling the albums and taking all the profits. Actually,I don't think Prince would have messed with The Time's formula.He knew that they were primarily a funk band and I doubt that he would have taken them in the same "classical orchestra" direction that he was venturing into.Did you ever hear the Mazarati album? I think that's where The Time would have been headed.Some of those songs ("100 MPH") would have been given to The Time. Actually, I thought about Mazarati after I made my post. I think Prince let Brown Mark have more of a hand in that group, which was smart because Prince was just gone off in a totally different direction during that period. I would hope if The Time had remained together during these years, that Prince would have let the band members have more input instead of doing most of it himself as in previous years (when he was actually capable of making such hardcore jams).  Andy is a four letter word. | |
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redflag said:
You mean like the Clare Fischer strings Morris Day himself used on his "Daydreaming" track "A Man's Pride"? Not exactly two of his stronger tracks either or the ones that got airplay either. I could go on to ask you not to presume to speak for all Black fans like myself who didn't feel "betrayed" by ATWIAD and Parade, but why bother?
I very seldom use the word "black" fans because funk fans come in all races and most funk lovers (notice I didn't say "all") do not like classical music. A white funk lover would be pissed too. Also, I would never say that an entire race only likes one particular type of music because there are always exceptions. I've seen people with dull tastes in every race. . . [Edited 12/21/05 6:50am] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: redflag said:
You mean like the Clare Fischer strings Morris Day himself used on his "Daydreaming" track "A Man's Pride"? Not exactly two of his stronger tracks either or the ones that got airplay either. I could go on to ask you not to presume to speak for all Black fans like myself who didn't feel "betrayed" by ATWIAD and Parade, but why bother?
I very seldom use the word "black" fans because funk fans come in all races and most funk lovers (notice I didn't say "all") do not like classical music. A white funk lover would be pissed too. Also, I would never say that an entire race only likes one particular type of music because there are always exceptions. I've seen people with dull tastes in every race. . . [Edited 12/21/05 6:50am] For the record, I'm a funk lover too, I don't like classical music either (I find Prince's use of strings more in the Phil Spector tradition myself), I just like my funk flavored with other things. Besides, Prince is not the first Black artist ever to use strings on a record. I guess you would call those Gamble/Huff Philly soul records of the '70's "classical music bullshit" as well. I know people with a similarly narrow view of music to yourself that manage to have certain albums by Bowie, Queen and Robert Plant in their collections and I often wonder why people accept White artists taking elements of Black music and combining it with rock and various other eclectic forms of music, but won't support Black artists doing the same thing. Just because I have a broader view of music than you do doesn't make my tastes dull. [Edited 12/21/05 8:30am] [Edited 12/21/05 8:31am] |
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I think had Morris and Jesse rode the tour out....P may have allowed them to contribute more to the studio. Especially since Jungle Love was/is a big hit for the Time. he may have still had a watchful eye on the group but I think he may have begun to let up some. People would've been checking for them more than they where in say 82-83. They would've become bigger stars than they were....to a point to where people would've known all the members.
I think that narcotic had Morris in a David Ruffin/Eddie Cane phase. I think the real reason Jesse left cause hell Morris,Terry,Jimmy,Monte were gone. If P had decided to let Jesse front the Time instead of Paul he may have worked something out. Oh it never happend all we can do is wonder what would've been.... | |
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redflag said:
For the record, I'm a funk lover too, I don't like classical music either (I find Prince's use of strings more in the Phil Spector tradition myself), I just like my funk flavored with other things. Well, that's you. You got your taste and I got mine. Besides, Prince is not the first Black artist ever to use strings on a record.
No one ever said he was. I guess you would call those Gamble/Huff Philly soul records of the '70's "classical music bullshit" as well.
No, because they are not Prince. I have some of those records also but they were known for that sound and it is what I got and expected when I bought those records. Many artists have their own sound, not just Prince, and this sound is what draws people to them over other artists. I knew Prince for an entirely different type of funk altogether....a more futuristic and stronger type funk. When Prince uses orchestras on his music, it makes it much weaker than it was before. It also gets further and further away from his own sound. A sound that drew me to him in the first place. Orchestras aren't the only thing I complain about with Prince's music. Horns are another. Yes, I like horns but I don't like horns with Prince. I love horns with Rick James and I complained when he stopped using them also because it started sounding less like The Stone City Band sound. Yes, I love using words like "classical bullshit" when referring to particular tracks on the "Parade" album. When something I love as much as funk is tampered with and weakened, I love to use every word I consider an insult to describe it. Other words I have used in the past are "artsy/fartsy", "nerdy", "music from La La Land", and "Waldo music". That's just me and hey, I gotta be me. Obviously, you're new around here because these words are nothing new coming out of my mouth. I'm well known for being the one that shits on people's "Parade".  Hey, if I don't like it, well...I don't like it. I'm not going to pretend I like it just because others might like it.
I know people with a similarly narrow view of music to yourself that manage to have certain albums by Bowie, Queen and Robert Plant in their collections and I often wonder why people accept White artists taking elements of Black music and combining it with rock and various other eclectic forms of music, but won't support Black artists doing the same thing. Just because I have a broader view of music than you do doesn't make my tastes dull.
Once again, the race thing, which this has absolutely nothing to do with. I love older music from Rod Stewart and Elton John but I can't stand anything they have done for years. They went from throwing down hard to becoming strictly adult contemporary artists. It's not limited to just black artists. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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