I need to take cover before I make this statement.
But in defense of Larry Graham, I don't necessarily like the toned down version of Prince either, and I understand that LG had a lot to do with this.
BUT! I just watched live version of "Free" P and LG performing.
P looks so dayum happy to be on stage with LG. Like he is having a good time.

So hey, if Prince likes it, I LOVE it!

prodigalfan said:

U know, when I first got on this site, I saw a lot of bad mouthing about Larry Graham. I was surprised cuz, me myself, I always dug Larry. He was a CRUCIAL member in Sly and the Family Stone and one of the best bassist ever. His solo work with GCS was way off the hook as well. People seriously blaming Larry for P's thought process and beliefs is kinda way out. P is and has been a grown man longer than some folks on here have been alive. P is responsible for the choices he makes, no one else. I think a lot of folks actually take credit away from P and undercut him by basically saying Larry has been brainwashing P. That's an insult, really. If that was the case, what does that say for P?

I'M GONNA ADD SOME BOTTOM!!!!
SO THAT THE DANCERS JUST WON'T HIDE!!!

BlackG
I realy respect your opinion on musical abilities just from reading some of your posts. I keep hearing LG was/is a legendary bass guitarist. Is he better than Rhonda.(I know stupid quest) but I can really hear Rhonda's bass on Sex in the Summer, and I think she is very talented. But I haven't heard a song that I can really hear LG playing at his best. (haven't heard Sly and family except what played on top 40 back in the day).
What would be a great song that really showcases LG talent? Because Prince just looks like he is is living a dream when he is playing with LG. He is acting like I would act if by some reason I was able to play on stage with Prince himself.
He is trying hard not( and not succeeding) to just bust out in a big grin. He can barely contain his smile and trying very hard to look serious.

prodigalfan said:

You wanna hear Larry's talent?
Check out these songs from the following albums:
Graham Central Station (1974)
Hair
Tell Me What It Is
Ghetto
Ain't No Fun To Me

Release Yourself (1974)
Release Yourself
Today
I Believe In You

Ain't No Bout A Doubt It (1975)
Water
The Jam
It's Alright
I Can't Stand the Rain
Old Smokey
Nothing But a Warner Bros. Party

Mirror (1976)
Priscilla
Forever
Save Me

Now Do U Wanta Dance (1977)
Now Do U Wanta Dance
Last Train
Earthquake

My Radio Sounds Good to Me (1978)
Pow
Is It Love

...early 80s stuff wasn't really my thing but there were some classic ballads.

Also it wouldn't hurt to check out his work with Greg Errico on Betty Davis' self-titled LP.

psykosoul said:

I couldn't have said it any better, pysko, my brother. And a big high - five for mentioning Betty Davis's album, too!

blackguitaristz said:

Yes! Yes! Yes! and don't forget the jam and also the jam

Thanks, I have copied this post and will see what I can find online. I imagine a lot of these albums are hard to find.

blackguitaristz said:

blackguitaristz said:

Thank you BG for your voice of reason. Lord knows, I have tried to school some of these people but they wouldn't listen to Ms Legs. I can't see how can they ignore all of the great funk contributions that Larry has made over years unless they don't have a soul. I see great minds think alike. Perhaps,we were married in a another life .

Hotlegs said:

U just now coming to that? I think we're married now, spiritually, anyways. Really though, I don't have a problem with folks being knee deep into P, that's their thing. Whatever. But, to go to the depths that some do, blaming one man for another man's decisions, is like I said, way out.

blackguitaristz said:

No Doubt.

prodigalfan said:

THEN YOU NEED TO GET YOU SOME SLY & THE FAMILY STONE!!! my friend...

psykosoul said:

yep!!! This says it all...

I recognize Larry's contributions/talent but most of the performances I"ve seem of them together bored me and struck me as "kiss Larry's a-- because of his past. Seems like Prince was too busy paying homage to the man to make great music with Larry.

Silkilove said:

Actually I'd say that Larry conformed to what Prince was doing. Unfortunately it came at a time when Kirky J was still at the helm of co-production. Larry used to represent that serious electric Bay funk. That's why I can't help but cringe whenever I see the "Larry ruined Prince" threads because to those who know 'bout Bay Area Funk (i.e. TOP, GCS, Sly etc) they would see it the other way 'round.

psykosoul said:

Exactly.

Hotlegs said:

THEY DON'T KNOW GRAHAM!!!!

funkpill said:

They just don't sound that good together to me. I can't place blame on either of them, its just that these two "greats" together sound like a really tired old school show. Personal chemistry was there but where was the musical chemistry? Can somebody refer me to a Larry and Prince recording thats fantastic? I'd like to hear it.

TO me I think when prince plays with larry he probably feels the same way I would as a guitarist playing with Dez Dickerson or Prince for that matter. I grew up on Sly and Larry (GCS) and I do think that Larry has toned down his agressive funk since he started playing with Prince.

I've never heard ANY Bassist or Funk Artist even come remotely close to touching the early Graham Central Station albums.

'Graham Central Station', 'Ain't no Bout A Doubt It', 'Release Yourself', 'Now-Do-U-Wanta-Dance' ... .

Have any of those criticising Larry Graham here ever heard 'Earth Quake', 'Hair', 'I Believe in You'(often performed by Prince), 'The Jam'(performed by Prince on numerous occasions) or 'Water'?

The dude is a bass-playing legend. His work is hugely influential. The influence it had on Prince's playing and style is clearly audible.

As for spiritual choices, Prince is a grown man who makes his own choices and decisions. Any speculation otherwise is pure fantasy.

Next to Sly himself, I think Larry was the most talented member of sly and the family stone, and in terms of endurance/longevity I think he's surpassed sly (unless all this stuff sly's been allegedly recording in his apartment esconced from the world is absolutely F*cking amazing). He invented an entire style of playing that helped to define an entire genre (yes upright players had been slapping and popping, but not on the electric bass and not in quite the same way, as bootsy once said "nobody slaps and pops as well as larry").

I think the reason prince seems to admire and idolize this guy so excessively is because he's the next best thing to Sly himself: the person I believe to be prince's number one musical inspiration. Prince converting to Jehovah's witness may have paliated his music and his image, but as many have said, Prince is a grown man and he can make his own decisions. No matter how tame a legend may become when they're past their prime, they're still a legend and they deserve respect.
[Edited 5/6/05 15:55pm]

I've hated Larry since he was first introduced as a Prince sidekick in the late 90's, you could tell Prince under Larry's wicked spell by the way Prince looked at Larry, as if Prince were an obidient child or a submissive woman with no opionoin of his own, being dominated by a super tall, man-like beast with a overgrown mustache and a bass guitar! It's cool if Prince respects the dude, but to hang on Larry's every word and obey his every order is simply ridiculous of a grown ass man to do!

Prince acts as if he never had a daddy and it would not surprise me if Prince goes crying to Larry Grahm about every little problem he has, looking for answers. Larry knows all too well the influence he has over Prince and he knows that Prince is puddy in his hands, Larry has a plan, he is after Prince's fortune.

klhk said:

See this is what I am talking about. I don't see Prince as the submissive woman. I don't think that is in his make up to be that way. But I have noticed there are some public figures that he apparently has respect for and it shows on his face when he meets them etc. I think it is cool, that Prince is a "fan" of other public figures. Seems more normal. Another celebrity that Prince met and had similar response, is Muhammad Ali. Ali, sort of pets Prince on the head, the way a father would do a son, and Prince seemed to be sort of not awestruck, but the way a kid would look meeting a childhood idol. And in fact maybe Graham and Ali are childhood idols. Doesn't mean Prince is "puddy in his hands" or that Prince can't think for himself. :rolleyes:

prodigalfan said:

Right - would a man that revolutionized the way major artists distribute music and led a solitary crusade for independence be a synchophant?

klhk said:

TO: klhk,
WOW!! It sounds like you need some serious help! There is help out there. There might even be some sort of medication that could help you sort things out and get back in touch with REALITY.

PRNfreak

blackguitaristz said:

one of the most explosive funk tracks eva!!

PRNfreak said:

but you're the PrinceRogersNelsonFreak! u need MEDS!!!

Mr7 said:

Look, over in the Prince: Music and More section, there are some SERIOUS FANATICS over there. I mean, it's on the verge of sick, really. That said, I say three fourths of them have NOT heard "Earth Quake", "Hair", or "Water'. To blame Larry on P's state of mind just shows how rational and mature (a lack thereof) a lot of folks are who appear to worship P. It's way out. A lot of them haven't even heard of GCS.

blackguitaristz said:

A lot them are not aware of or old enough to notice the good funk contributions of the original Graham Central Station BG Baby.