New topic
PrintableDavidEye said: BlaqueKnight said: Well, it was no mistake for Jam & Lewis, since they are the one Minneapolis act that has become a seperate entity from Prince that he had no control over. They have become established producers and regardless to how often they thank Prince, when it comes to the business decisions, unlike most others from the MN camp - they didn't need Prince's approval. There comes a time for some employees when they have to make decisions on what's better for themselves rather than what's best for the company. That's pretty much what they did. They took a risk. Of course, they didn't expect to get snowed in, but they valued what they were working on more than what Prince was doing. Some of the Prince minions on this site see this as betrayal, but its really a matter of doing what's best for you. Just because someone hooks you up doesn't mean you owe them a life of indentured servitude. They ourgrew Prince. Plain & simple. 
One of the biggest mistakes Prince ever made was trying to stop Jam and Lewis from writing and producing songs.They weren't really making alot of money in The Time (at one point,they were making only $200 a week).If Prince was smart,he would have signed them to a production deal with Paisley Park Records.His own acts (The Family,Apollonia 6,Mazarati,etc) could have used many of those big hits that Jam and Lewis gave to others. ----- I agree but, once again they knew what they were getting into from the jump. It worked out for them in the end. | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
BlaqueKnight said: laurarichardson said: I have only said this a dozen times on this board whenever this comes up. Maybe P is an ass but, he was the boss and they all new that there would be a limited amount of money or control avalible when they signed on. I just think no one likes to take responsibility for their own mistakes. Well, it was no mistake for Jam & Lewis, since they are the one Minneapolis act that has become a seperate entity from Prince that he had no control over. They have become established producers and regardless to how often they thank Prince, when it comes to the business decisions, unlike most others from the MN camp - they didn't need Prince's approval. There comes a time for some employees when they have to make decisions on what's better for themselves rather than what's best for the company. That's pretty much what they did. They took a risk. Of course, they didn't expect to get snowed in, but they valued what they were working on more than what Prince was doing. Some of the Prince minions on this site see this as betrayal, but its really a matter of doing what's best for you. Just because someone hooks you up doesn't mean you owe them a life of indentured servitude. They ourgrew Prince. Plain & simple.  BK Baby, once again you hit right on the nose. Prince's Ego trip cost him mega bucks. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
laurarichardson said: sextonseven said: They do? I've always heard them say they learned a lot from Prince. ----- Not often. They spent more time dogging him. I noticed that they kind of slacked off in the last few years but I remebmer reading a lot of interviews they did in the late 80's to early 90's. They were having a good old time slamming P. You don't have to ignore the truth just to disagree with me. (LOL) I was asking an honest question, not ignoring anything. I do find it odd however, that around that same time you mentioned was when they agreed to work with Prince again on The Time reunion album. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
sextonseven said: laurarichardson said: ----- Not often. They spent more time dogging him. I noticed that they kind of slacked off in the last few years but I remebmer reading a lot of interviews they did in the late 80's to early 90's. They were having a good old time slamming P. You don't have to ignore the truth just to disagree with me. (LOL) I was asking an honest question, not ignoring anything. I do find it odd however, that around that same time you mentioned was when they agreed to work with Prince again on The Time reunion album.  They probably decided to let bygones be bygones. When Jam and Lewis rejoined, they had already made thier money as production team so, they had proven themselves. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
sextonseven said: laurarichardson said: ----- Not often. They spent more time dogging him. I noticed that they kind of slacked off in the last few years but I remebmer reading a lot of interviews they did in the late 80's to early 90's. They were having a good old time slamming P. You don't have to ignore the truth just to disagree with me. (LOL) I was asking an honest question, not ignoring anything. I do find it odd however, that around that same time you mentioned was when they agreed to work with Prince again on The Time reunion album. ----- Yes, it was weird they were on Video Soul promoting Pandemonium and slamming P at the same time. I did not know if they were trying to keep in character with GB or just found something else to be pissed about. It was very strange. (LOL) | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
laurarichardson said: sextonseven said: I was asking an honest question, not ignoring anything. I do find it odd however, that around that same time you mentioned was when they agreed to work with Prince again on The Time reunion album. ----- Yes, it was weird they were on Video Soul promoting Pandemonium and slamming P at the same time. I did not know if they were trying to keep in character with GB or just found something else to be pissed about. It was very strange. (LOL) | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
BlaqueKnight said: laurarichardson said: I have only said this a dozen times on this board whenever this comes up. Maybe P is an ass but, he was the boss and they all new that there would be a limited amount of money or control avalible when they signed on. I just think no one likes to take responsibility for their own mistakes. Well, it was no mistake for Jam & Lewis, since they are the one Minneapolis act that has become a seperate entity from Prince that he had no control over. They have become established producers and regardless to how often they thank Prince, when it comes to the business decisions, unlike most others from the MN camp - they didn't need Prince's approval. There comes a time for some employees when they have to make decisions on what's better for themselves rather than what's best for the company. That's pretty much what they did. They took a risk. Of course, they didn't expect to get snowed in, but they valued what they were working on more than what Prince was doing. Some of the Prince minions on this site see this as betrayal, but its really a matter of doing what's best for you. Just because someone hooks you up doesn't mean you owe them a life of indentured servitude. They ourgrew Prince. Plain & simple. Damn right! It's great for someone to give you a start but there comes a time that you have to think about your own future. As controlling as Prince was, Jimmy and Terry were very smart to have side projects because who knows when Prince would have fired them at the drop of a hat for the smallest thing. If they didn't have these side projects going at the time, they would have become forgotten like many of the others from the Prince camp.Andy is a four letter word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
laurarichardson said:
But Jam and Lewis do act like it was mistake to hook up with Prince in the first place. They talked about their situation with him for about 15 years. They got fired because they took a risk and it worked out for them. Why keep bitching about it. You you leave on bad terms, of course there's going to be bitterness. The guys are human. Andy is a four letter word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DavidEye said:
One of the biggest mistakes Prince ever made was trying to stop Jam and Lewis from writing and producing songs.They weren't really making alot of money in The Time (at one point,they were making only $200 a week).If Prince was smart,he would have signed them to a production deal with Paisley Park Records.His own acts (The Family,Apollonia 6,Mazarati,etc) could have used many of those big hits that Jam and Lewis gave to others. That's an excellent idea but it would be too much like right. As controlling as Prince is, he would have had to put his two cents in about their projects which would have caused even more confusion. During the Paisley Park years, Jimmy and Terry, as well as the other protegees, were continuing with the "Minneapolis Sound" and Prince's head was in a "Around The World" state of mind.  Prince's new sound bled over into his protegee groups on Paisley Park at the time also, which were not near as successful as his earlier groups. You know he would have tried to force this sound on Jimmy and Terry also.Andy is a four letter word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
laurarichardson said: sextonseven said: They do? I've always heard them say they learned a lot from Prince. ----- Not often. They spent more time dogging him. I noticed that they kind of slacked off in the last few years but I remebmer reading a lot of interviews they did in the late 80's to early 90's. They were having a good old time slamming P. You don't have to ignore the truth just to disagree with me. (LOL) Years have passed since then and they have now given Prince props and honored him for the great artist he is and giving them their start. In the late 1980s, that was recent years after the breakup. They were human, they were bitter, and had every right to be. There's an old saying...."You can forgive, but you'll never forget". Andy is a four letter word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Hotlegs said: sextonseven said: I was asking an honest question, not ignoring anything. I do find it odd however, that around that same time you mentioned was when they agreed to work with Prince again on The Time reunion album. They probably decided to let bygones be bygones. When Jam and Lewis rejoined, they had already made thier money as production team so, they had proven themselves.So true. They had already had huge success with Janet Jackson, probably bigger than they ever dreamed of, so they definately didn't need Prince in their lives anymore. The "Pandemonium" album was around the time I saw a lot of the bitterness coming to an end. I'm sure they had probably been friends with Prince for years before the break-up and probably wanted to become friends again. Andy is a four letter word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
laurarichardson said: sextonseven said: I was asking an honest question, not ignoring anything. I do find it odd however, that around that same time you mentioned was when they agreed to work with Prince again on The Time reunion album. ----- Yes, it was weird they were on Video Soul promoting Pandemonium and slamming P at the same time. I did not know if they were trying to keep in character with GB or just found something else to be pissed about. It was very strange. (LOL) I think they were expecting a great movie like "Purple Rain" and Prince comes up with an embarrasing movie like "Grafitti Bridge". Prince's head was never the same after "Purple Rain"....he was into all this spiritual "artsy/fartsy" type stuff and his protegees were all still throwing down hard like the old days. If they had went along, lied and said the movie was great, and supported Prince, they would have appeared just as "far out" as he was at the time. It would have ruined their own images. Andy is a four letter word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
vainandy said: I think they were expecting a great movie like "Purple Rain" and Prince comes up with an embarrasing movie like "Grafitti Bridge". Prince's head was never the same after "Purple Rain"....he was into all this spiritual "artsy/fartsy" type stuff and his protegees were all still throwing down hard like the old days. If they had went along, lied and said the movie was great, and supported Prince, they would have appeared just as "far out" as he was at the time. It would have ruined their own images. 
Funny as hell, but so true! "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
prodigalfan said: vainandy said: I think they were expecting a great movie like "Purple Rain" and Prince comes up with an embarrasing movie like "Grafitti Bridge". Prince's head was never the same after "Purple Rain"....he was into all this spiritual "artsy/fartsy" type stuff and his protegees were all still throwing down hard like the old days. If they had went along, lied and said the movie was great, and supported Prince, they would have appeared just as "far out" as he was at the time. It would have ruined their own images.
Funny as hell, but so true! You know it! Andy is a four letter word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
vainandy said: You know it! I second that motion. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
vainandy said: I think they were expecting a great movie like "Purple Rain" and Prince comes up with an embarrasing movie like "Grafitti Bridge". Prince's head was never the same after "Purple Rain"....he was into all this spiritual "artsy/fartsy" type stuff and his protegees were all still throwing down hard like the old days. If they had went along, lied and said the movie was great, and supported Prince, they would have appeared just as "far out" as he was at the time. It would have ruined their own images. ----- They could have just read the script and ran for the hills. I know I would have. (LOL) | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
vainandy said: DavidEye said:
One of the biggest mistakes Prince ever made was trying to stop Jam and Lewis from writing and producing songs.They weren't really making alot of money in The Time (at one point,they were making only $200 a week).If Prince was smart,he would have signed them to a production deal with Paisley Park Records.His own acts (The Family,Apollonia 6,Mazarati,etc) could have used many of those big hits that Jam and Lewis gave to others. That's an excellent idea but it would be too much like right. As controlling as Prince is, he would have had to put his two cents in about their projects which would have caused even more confusion. During the Paisley Park years, Jimmy and Terry, as well as the other protegees, were continuing with the "Minneapolis Sound" and Prince's head was in a "Around The World" state of mind. Prince's new sound bled over into his protegee groups on Paisley Park at the time also, which were not near as successful as his earlier groups. You know he would have tried to force this sound on Jimmy and Terry also.So true.I've always felt that,the main reason Paisley Park Records failed is simply because Prince was spreading himself too thin.He was writing and producing his own records,PLUS all of his protege's albums too.He was also involved with movies and concert tours.There was no way he could give 100% to every project.Jam and Lewis could have really helped him out in this regard.Remember Gamble and Huff's label in the 70s? They produced much of those classic albums,but they also relied on in-house songwriters/producers like Bunny Sigler and McFadden and Whitehead,and the occasional assistance from Thom Bell and Linda Creed.If Prince had set up his label this way,it could have been the Motown of the 80s/90s,with one hit after another.He could have also hired his old pal Andre Cymone as an in-house producer.By the late 80s,Andre had proven that he was a top-knotch producer. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DavidEye said: vainandy said: That's an excellent idea but it would be too much like right. As controlling as Prince is, he would have had to put his two cents in about their projects which would have caused even more confusion. During the Paisley Park years, Jimmy and Terry, as well as the other protegees, were continuing with the "Minneapolis Sound" and Prince's head was in a "Around The World" state of mind. Prince's new sound bled over into his protegee groups on Paisley Park at the time also, which were not near as successful as his earlier groups. You know he would have tried to force this sound on Jimmy and Terry also.So true.I've always felt that,the main reason Paisley Park Records failed is simply because Prince was spreading himself too thin.He was writing and producing his own records,PLUS all of his protege's albums too.He was also involved with movies and concert tours.There was no way he could give 100% to every project.Jam and Lewis could have really helped him out in this regard.Remember Gamble and Huff's label in the 70s? They produced much of those classic albums,but they also relied on in-house songwriters/producers like Bunny Sigler and McFadden and Whitehead,and the occasional assistance from Thom Bell and Linda Creed.If Prince had set up his label this way,it could have been the Motown of the 80s/90s,with one hit after another.He could have also hired his old pal Andre Cymone as an in-house producer.By the late 80s,Andre had proven that he was a top-knotch producer. ----- Alan Leeds also said the WB never put in money into the label. He said that Paisley Park was really just a lable on paper and that he believed it was just a way to keep Prince at WB. If this is true it would not have matter who he had working for him. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |