I have lurked for a long time and have only fairly recently been partcipating directly but I am getting increasingly frustrated by threads being locked.

This used to happen but no way as often as now and seemingly for reasons that are unbalanced and based on personal feelings alone.

The latest Larry Graham thread for example has just been locked apparently due to it being "offensive" - offensive my eye - any look at that thread shows its just the same old 'org banter - sure - close to the knuckle sometimes but not further than that - no flaming even.

It used to be that the comments would be snipped not the whole thread locked down.

Look down the lists of threads and a fair few will be locked out.

I liked the org because of its balance - sure there have always been lots of 'naysayers'but thats part of its charm - part of freedom actually - I want to have no part in an org that is effectively censoring due to personal opinions alone. Cut out the truly offensive sure but otherwise where will it stop? Will the thread that says UTCM is crap be locked out beacuse June7 does not like it?

I know that my loss would be no great shakes to the org but I have to say I dont like the change of moderating style and believe that unless it is changed the org will change, for good, and for the worst.

You might notice more threads being locked now, because we have more eyes on the site. Maybe those same threads would/should have been locked before, too, but it was impractical. Some may not really need to be. I haven't read the threads you refer to, so can't comment on those cases.

If you have particular threads you want reviewed, email me with the links. But once it's locked, it's likely to stay locked. However, if we discuss among the mods and decide it shouldn't have been, perhaps in the future similar ones or ones with similar issues, won't be. Please respect the mods' decisions. If you want to debate it, debate it with them privately, and if that doesn't resolve it, talk to me. But really, I'd prefer to not discuss specific threads here. (I see you partially want to discuss it as a 'trend', so I will allow this thread to stand, with this response...)

Thanks for your response -

I know it cant be easy - I also appreciate the point re lack of mods b4. I have no affinity for any thread - so thanks but its not necessary to reinstate any - I simply felt that the Org should not any up being censored when one of its strengths is its range of opinions and their expression. Hence I hope that threads will be locked only as a last resort - not as a whim - one assumes that 'snipping' of messages is still available on the new org?

Two further points

1. save for the slow chatroom the new org design is a big improvement on b4
2. thanks to you (and all the mods) for the hard work - the org is a great place

Loverobot

i've noticed this trend too - it's like a mod decides that the thread should be locked because it has the *potential* for becoming nasty or because it might become offensive down the road, and so locks it before it ever does.

that being said, i appreciate the long, long hours (24/7) some mods put in for this place. can't be an easy job

XxAxX said:

All the mods love what they're doing. A little bit too much in some cases. See my sig.

XxAxX said:

Agreed.....

Seems people are jumpin' on the slightest thing, in order to flex some Mod Muscle.

AnotherLoverToo said:

i gotta question for all of ya'll here: when you first started up at your place of employment or took up a new task in your life, did you already know what to do when you first started up?

...and none of you best not say 'yes', cuz i'll know you're lyin.

Honest to god, there's nothing exciting about locking a thread or warning an orger.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Dansa - I agree - for the record I have no problem in accepting that the mods are doing a good job 99% of the time and that it cant be easy , but....

I felt that the locking thread problem needed comment so that others could comment and so that if my concerns were echoed the mods and Ben could listen and adopt a toned down stance.

Not a criticism - an observation - and I think a valid one.

Loverobot

I've never been a fan of my thread being locked.

I'm not a fan of locking threads either... but sometimes it is a necessary evil.

When you OrgPopped me your disapproval of my thread locking, I think I replied in kind... then this. I guess it comes with the job.

I have locked my share of threads since becoming moderator. Some were very much in need of a good lockin', some I may have jumped the gun on.

When I have jumped the gun, I've acknowledged it... and even unlocked the thread. In the thread that started this bruhaha, I stood firm.

Sure, you can call me out on it, protest, start a thread regarding locked threads, etc... but, if I honestly feel the thread merited the lock, then I'll stand behind my decision.

While I appreciate the fact that you reached out to me via the OrgPop (condescending as it was), to enlighten me with your views on my decision to lock a thread - I don't appreciate being used as an example in your views as to what I deem unworthy of further posts... but, whatever.

Then again, I took the job... I'll accept the consequences. On the same note, you should respect our decisions regarding a ruling, or at least attempt to handle things with the mods in a more private TWO WAY conversation, before posting your dislike of the way things are being handled. Imagine how it could have turned out, had you Org NOTED me privately with a less condescending attitude to DISCUSS your issue.... Hmm?

Oh well, I doubt this complaining will stop here.

I doubt the lockings will stop altogether too.

But, I promise to do my job to the best of my ability and SNIP when necessary, and LOCK if needed.

I ask for your patience when I make a bad call - and your support when I make a good one, K?

K.

June7 said:

I am sorry but I take offence to this post.

The contents of your post are simply untrue. Please support your position with facts and not things that have been made up / distorted.

A few things arise -

1. This is not re one thread but many - read it again.
2. I did orgpop you re one thread - and simply posed the question as to why it had been locked - how can a straight question be condescending? Your response was "that is my decison and my decision is final" - hardly a discussion was it? With respect you were the one talking down - Incidentally the thread concerned wasnt even mine - I just was surprised that it had been locked. It is easy to suggest condescension in an orgpop with no proof - less so in a thread isnt it?
3. If raising issues for helping the org to improve is in your mind "complaining" then I think you need to think again - dont you?

I have no personal gripe with you nor with any individual thread being locked. I have observed that more threads are being locked than before and oftentimes in what seems to be unnecessary circumstances. That's my opinion - you are entitled to yours - but then that's your decision and tha's final - no? C O M M U N I C A T I O N - its what sets us apart from the beasts - right?

im curious...are you guys noticing locked threads and thats what your commenting on?

or are you there locked thread that you would have wanted to participate in if not for them being locked?

in the second case, by all means email ben directly when you have issue....we all need "a chance to grow"..


and this issue isnt just about newbies, for the record!!

thanks all for sharing your opinion on the matter....

LoveRobot said:

I cannot provide this as fact, as you ORGPOPPED ME... not OrgNote, where I could provide you with a full detailed account of what you said and how I replied. This was your choice - as you initiated the conversation. Frankly, I've never even heard of you before this. Waiting for a reply from you (another OrgPop, I assumed, as that's how YOU chose to discuss this) I then found this thread, after the fact, with my name in it as an example. It is quite obvious that your "issue raising" was a direct complaint on the locking of a thread YOU thought was unworthy of being locked.

Now who's distorting the truth? I did not respond in that way. I thanked you for your interest, and expressed to you why it was locked. There's not a lot of room in an OrgPop to go into great detail as to the reasons, but when you OrgPop me out of the blue with "I'm having a problem with your locking threads..." etc, how is that a request to discuss a situation?

Here's a perfect example of how you're NOT condescending... uh ... yeah.

I will tell you this much. I'm done with this thread. I've explained myself in a forum that really required no explanation... and that is in the rules. I will, however, keep all issues you have raised in mind while moderating. I DO believe in communication, this is one of the reasons I was chosen to be a moderator by Ben... I wasn't just a name pulled out of a hat. If you check my history here, you will find I'm not a bad guy. I try to be fair. 'Nuff said by me...

Thank you for sharing.

sosgemini said:

I am noticing that threads are being locked that I have participated on - not because of what I have posted - but often what is happening is that decent threads are being locked because of what appears to be either 'banter' or a message of abuse - result = locked - then the entire discussion is down the pan. I thought that the usual practice was to snip the flame and keep the thread open. Also there has been a suggestion that threads about issues previously discussed will be locked - not good really when you consider that most issues have been discussed before but people gain a different insight as time moves on - and still want to discuss. Finally it seems that there has been a tendency to lock threads that appear nonsensical eg Mani is pregnant - again no real reason to lock these - everyone knows that the bull meter is on overload but they are funny and should stay imho.

An example of good locking was recently when there were mutiple threads on the same topic all live and repetitive - all the mods were locking them and rightly - they were a waste of time / server

I am trying to be constructive - if points are not raised then things will never improve - in my business if people didnt point out where we go wrong we can never better our service and so we welcome constructive criticism with open arms

June7 said:

Sorry but my quote above is word for word - in future I will orgnote you and then there will be no problem will there?

As for the "I have never heard of you ..." and the "I was chosen (by) Ben" - sorry but that does not give you a monopoly upon being correct nor on having an opinion. I am quite happy to tolerate anyone's opinions but will not accept being misquoted in an attempt to score points.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

this is one example of what i mean, dear. sorry to pick out one of your threads but you are one of those i'm referring to http://www.prince.org/msg/7/85561 . i don't understand why you locked this thread? it isn't a flame war, it isn't off topic, . .. . i can only conclude that you simply disagree with the sentiments expressed?

i do appreciate the enormous amounts of time you spend on here, don't get me wrong.
[This message was edited Mon Mar 22 4:30:42 2004 by XxAxX]

Seems like now that those Orgers who were at all controversial are banned, there's much less here to moderate, yet more moderators. So when threads are locked or deleted because of what "might" happen, or other reasons, it starts looking like Mods are bored and just waiting for something to do. (might not be true, but that's how it can appear)

AnotherLoverToo said:

Didnt realise anyone had been banned ! Must have been pretty bad ! Have to say I have seen all sorts of questionable behaviour but all part of life's rich tapestry....!

AnotherLoverToo said:

Yep. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it usually is one. Personally I think that there's a vaccination that any person who gets to a position of relative power is given, with the label INCOMPETENT. So that even if u weren't before, u are for sure when u're given that one.

I was talked down to by June7 as well, being told, while I was on the phone with England trying to find a good org friend to get her taken care of, that if I was such a good friend to this person I should do more than argue the locking of a thread. I WAS doing more.

Wait, I just broke a rule didn't I? Not allowed to reveal what a mod has said. Cos if we compare notes, mods might be exposed.

Teacher said:

Oh hold on... I know I said I was done with this thread, but if you're going to slander me, you may want to attempt to tell the whole story.

When you open a "discussion" with calling me an "Asshole", what response are you attemting to get from me... a "thank you"?

We all read the site and appreciate it just like everyone else. Why would any one of us want to make it unenjoyable?

There's some orgers that get frustrated when they see that several threads have been locked and feel too many conversations are being cut short, and there's some orgers that get irritated when they have to sift through a bunch of misleading, or pointless, or redundtant threads.

Feedback is cool, the more the better.

June7 said:

Sorry but who exactly has called you an "asshole" ?

Tom said:

That's what I hoped - and that's how the thread was intended. I run my own business and like to hear of problems so that we can improve our service. Obviously not all comments are valid / merited and are passed over - but some are learning experiences for us and help us to 'grow' and strengthen. We are successful because we listen to these points...

LoveRobot said:

Nope its ok - I just worked it out for myself - you are saying that Teacher did - for a moment I thought you were suggesting that I had...

LoveRobot said:

I know there's a sentiment that some mods are locking threads "just because they can", and people who wish they would use more restraint in doing that.

But the same can be said for some people who start thread after thread "just because they can" without stopping for a moment to think if it's really something worth posting, or interesting to read/discuss.

Dont act like being a mod isn't a head trip.."cause you know you're lyin'."There has not been one mod in the org history who has not had an attitude change once they became a mod.

SENSHY said:

So in other words, you're pre-judging anyone that volunteers as a mod?
[This message was edited Tue Mar 23 11:32:18 2004 by Tom]

Tom said:

No, because I have seen the attitude adjustment with mine own eyes. In print at least. Even with you Tom. But that's human nature anyways.

Actually June 7 and Sweeny have been relatively the same as pre-modship imo.

BTW, I like your signature Tom.

SENSHY said:

thats an interesting observation.....the bulk of us new moderators have yet to really get involved in moderating within the forums.....i think there is a huge disconnect between perception and reality....but i take your comments serious..expecially when perception is 80% more important then reality...

thanks for sharing...

-sos