"I will not apologize for hosting an unmoderated forum.I don't think there's anything wrong with it"




Then,why the hell did you shut down the site? If you TRULY believe that your site was harmless,inoffensive fun,why did you immediately start removing the contents once we all found out about it? Guilty conscience,perhaps?

On one of the threads from your site,you,IceNine and Chemmie were discussing alter egos that you guys were planning to create at Prince.org,for the sole purpose of race-baiting and pissing off other Orgers.Does this line look familiar?

"My next account will be a black woman who dislikes Whites.But she doesn't say anything blatantly racist"

and let's not even mention the threads titled "I Hate Spades" and "I Hate People Who Act Niggardly".
[This message was edited Fri Feb 6 6:36:28 PST 2004 by DavidEye]

2the9s said:

Erm, isn't that what teller said?

"It was called 'QuaidBowl' for a while... When some of the personal attacks began, Quaid asked that I remove his logo and move the site. I did…it was called 'The Beta BBS' for a little while, then when Aero posted that funny thread about 'The Center for Banned and Departed Orgers,' it seemed cute." --teller, 02/05/04 1:29pm

Methinks a retraction and apology are in order.

matt said:

Hey, maybe I just didn't see the part you quoted. Should I apologize for what I didn't see?
[This message was edited Fri Feb 6 9:05:25 PST 2004 by 2the9s]

I am not a crook.
[This message was edited Fri Feb 6 8:48:37 PST 2004 by KoolAid]

teller said:

And the deactivations continue...

rdhull RIP

2the9s said:

2the9s said:

A most cogent observation.

Exhibitions of "intelligence" untempered by wisdom and the exercise of "freedom" without responsibility can be as dangerous and destructuve as outright stupidity and anarchy.

Teller, if you had applied one percent of the thought that went into this rationalization to the question of whether your world, my world, our world would be better off without The Center . . .

How did Billy Sparks put it? "What a fuckin' waste."

KoolAid said:

So that makes:

C

Bliss

MD7

rd...

The beat goes on...

2the9s said:

why was rd deactivated? he hasn't done anything except this:

jessyMD32781 said:

Matt decativated him because of a statement rd made that Matt didn't see fit to interpret as a joke...

But anyway, sorry to jack this thread, back to your point teller, you were saying that the site that you designed and Matt participated on, where someone said that rdhull and some others should be dragged behind a pickup truck, should be seen as a joke...

Carry on with that...

2the9s said:

Yes... a homophobic statement, that is. RD had already been warned twice in the past month about such comments.

I'm surprised that people who get seriously upset over racism will look the other way when it comes to homophobia. Come to think of it, isn't such silence the same thing that Quaidbowl users were criticized for?

matt said:

Oh don't get me wrong, I think you were blind to the homophobia at Quaidbowl too, and to the statements that IceNine made about attempting to hack Ben's site.

2the9s said:

In fact you only saw fit to "see" examples of homophobia when it suited your desire to ban rdhull because of "unfounded accusations" that he made about you and Hands. Didn't you tell him that when you banned him?

matt said:

i honestly can't recall seeing any homophobic comments/words such as faggot and whatnot on this site. I do remember having a discussion with one orger about how it was wrong of her to keep her kids away from other children with homosexual parents lest they be "influenced". it was a very respectful discussion, too. That's the closest thing to homophobia that i've seen here.

matt said:

Maybe he thought it would get him an invite to the same site you participated in?

And spare us your surprise. You have done nothing but run from the racism issue yourself. Now that it can be used to further your own agenda, you will begin to suggest the wrong-ness of it all.

Maybe that's why RD did the damn thing. To show how hypocritical you and others are.

2the9s said:

His lies are merely an additional reason why RD deserved to be deactivated. Defamation is also against the User Agreement / Terms of Service.

But anyway, instead of dodging the question, can you please explain to us why your friend's homophobia should be tolerated here on the .org? I mean, we all know that "it was just a joke" doesn't hold water as an excuse.

KoolAid said:

As if Matt would ever agree to that. Remember, he's coping well with all this (his own words)

matt said:

What question did I dodge, Matt? And who is "us"? The collective org spirit? Are you now putting the victims on trial? I guess I should be glad since C and rd and Bliss and MD7 didn't get the opportunity of one. The point I was making was that you are inconsistent in your moderation and you interpretation of what you find offensive. And that you were involved in a site in which someone said they wanted rd to be dragged behind a truck (to his death I presume), but you didn't express your disapproval in that case, even as a member, here or there. But now you are ready to claim this as a clear and unambiguous case of homophobia. Pardon me if I don't find your judgements to be entirely honest. I think racism and homophobia are too important to be made a part of someone's personal politics like this.

I never said that homophobia should be tolerated on the Org. I resent the implication (lie) that I did and ask for an apology and retraction. I find this to be defamatory and against the TOS. That bit you added about "my friend's" is disingenuous. It is teller's argument, not mine, that anything his friends do or say is humorous and everything others say is "venomous."

You seem to pick and choose what is right and wrong according to what suits you.

As for dodging questions, did you see where IceNine said that he had attempted to hack this site or not?
[This message was edited Fri Feb 6 10:27:03 PST 2004 by 2the9s]

alright, i can see matt is taking a rather uncalled for beating over RD...

i and another orger who shall remain nameless reported the comment. the orger contacted me, cause i replied to rd's comment. so bothe of us reported it. he had been warned numerous time about using those little gay insults. i even went as far as to ask that he not be deactivated for it last time, merely that they simply remove the comments last time, knowing as he was then and was now, on his final strike. i and several other gay and str8 orgers have pointed out that his use of such deragotory gay slang is offensive and not appropriate, especially when he only uses them when he is mad at someone, and he continued to do it anyway.

if you want to blame someone, blame me. matt was merely carrying out the actions of the people who reported it.

i like rd, i like that he finally stopped this drama with him, and i will be glad to see him when he gets back from his deactivation, which i hope will be soon. but he had been repeatedly warned about that kind of thing including a warning from ben himself. he is responsible for his own actions, and those kinds of things are not permitted.
[This message was edited Fri Feb 6 10:39:43 PST 2004 by cborgman]

RD

I hope RD stays away.

You people are not deserving.

All you softpedaling that nonsense. Doling out "forgiveness" there but not here like free ass. You are lucky that site is no longer available.

There were only 10 pages, and on average less than 15 posts per thread. And some of the most offensive threads were on page 1. If you spent 10 minutes there, you would have come across the filth and repugnance of it all.

So for those claiming "I never saw this" or "I never saw that" I was only there to talk to such and such. What a lie.

Those of you who went there... you said nothing, you maintained the secrecy which is a form of assent

In one thread, Aaron said "no need to email Tron an invite, I'll just call him." Did he? So when Tron posts his melodramatic "I'm sickened by this" I really wonder. Then when he posts his backpedaling jesus tapdancing thread, it makes one wonder how much he really knew.

And supa... oh please. You have whined and cried on the org about evil things people said to you as a child as proof of the discrimination faced by gays. Yet you too have be so lackadaisacal and casual about this all when it does not pertain to gay issues. Maybe you are right, you were too busy trying to fuck Teller, to paraphrase your words, to even pay attention to it. But it's hard to believe. And then to see you on here joking about the "I"(cenine) word, as though this is all a big joke. All can be said is

And as far as the "nameless" person... that person defended Icenine, said he liked him, missed him, and implied that somehow RD had brought those statements on himself.

Maybe RD's statements should be taken in that context. Through this week he showed amazing restraint. You are all lucky "sistah girl" was the worst thing you heard from RD. Cuz there are quite a few choice words you do deserve.

none of my business edit
[This message was edited Fri Feb 6 11:34:31 PST 2004 by cborgman]

2the9s said:

The one where I asked, "Come to think of it, isn't such silence the same thing that Quaidbowl users were criticized for?" Instead of answering, you ducked the question with, "Oh don't get me wrong, I think you were blind to the homophobia at Quaidbowl too, and to the statements that IceNine made about attempting to hack Ben's site."



I'm merely pointing out the inconsistency in the position that many people have taken in this controversy.


They'd still be here if they hadn't chosen to flame (C, Bliss, and MD7) or post homophobic comments (RD). Let me add that none of them were banned for a first offense--they all had the benefits of warnings. If you keep abusing a dog after it barks in protest, don't be surprised when you get bitten.


A good portion of the Quaidbowl controversy has been personal politics. Forgive me for suspecting that some (not all) of this outrage has been people jumping on the bandwagon and seeking to advance personal feuds.


I'm simply pointing out an inconsistency. Where were you when RD posted homophobic comments? I'm not accusing you of homophobia--I'm simply asking how to reconcile silence on homophobia with the notion that everyone who had a Quaidbowl account is guilty for not speaking up.

Speaking of an apology and retraction, why did you post an apology/retraction to me and then edit it out?


You're drawing a connection that I didn't intend to make. I'm merely anticipating the most likely defense that'll be offered for his actions.


No, I didn't.

KoolAid said:

threats? are we now in the business of making threats now? and when did i ever say that RD brought any statements on to himself (yourself?)? dont put words in peoples mouths (or print) simply to defend your point...

and for the record, i did enjoy my experiences w/ icenine...never once did i or am i excusing his behavior.

I have a solution!!

Put Quaidbowl back up!

Seriously! Edit out those hateful comments. Maybe start over witha clean slate. And anyone who wants to go there can go!

It can be like the Org/AMP of yore! There would only be ocassional skirmishes between the boards but most of the sniping would be kept on the separate boards!

Just don't make Quaidbowel specifically about "Org watching" or whatever that dumbass shit was. Hey, we know you're watching us anyway...

I have nothing against those people having their own site! Most of them have fucked up this one anyway, so their departure would be welcome!

So now Tron is implicitly involved in things he never did or said?

Koolaid, you don't know me, or maybe you do and you're hiding behind a secret account like Bliss... You can believe what you want. I could care less.

How am I being lacsidaisacal or casual about all this? I suppose people care most about the issues that pertain to them. So yes, gay issues affect me very deeply. That doesn't mean that i'm blind to the issues others face. I addressed it in this thread about the gay minstrel show:

http://www.prince.org/msg...sg_1385328

This is where I got involved in the RD/Borgman saga (the day before asking if RD would be welcome on Quaidbowl).

Why don't you go through and glance at how members, including RD, were minimizing homophobia. Unlike you (at least I've never seen you do so), I have actually discussed and debated and explored the issue. RD & Sumtymes were insinuating that people were being racist. Not a light accusation. You will notice in my interaction with RD in that thread never once did I resort to using stereotypes or personal slams (and I didn't on Quaidbowl either, even though I was free to do and say whatever I wanted in a private environment). He however continued to use them against Chris Borgman.

In RDs conflict with Borgman, he used stereotypes in dealing with his banter back and forth with Chris Borgman. It went unchallenged and unnoticed for quite some time. Nobody but me addressed the fact that gay stereotypes are just as bad as racial stereotypes. Chris Borgman even asked RD to edit those stereotypes out of his posts. RD played dumb and didn't do so.

Just imagine if Chris started saying things about Watermelon and Fried Chicken, ghettos and rap music in his dispute with RD. How long would that be posted before being addressed? I'm sure you and others would jump all over that in an instance. Hence the perceived double standard.

I personally believe the banned members should be brought back so they can put closure on this and deal with it. But if someone cannot refrain from personal and stereotypical slams, they should be called on it whether they be black, white, gay or straight.

So the next time you call people guilty for sitting back and sayin nothin about stereotypes and prejudicial language over on Quaidbowl, realize many people are doing the same fucking thing here....

.
[This message was edited Fri Feb 6 19:04:17 PST 2004 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy]

one final statement...

there was continued harrasment of gays within this forum by rd...im sure he is a wonderful person in real life..and im sure he made a lot of wonderful friends here too...but you cant dismiss the continued baiting of homosexuals...you cant dismiss the fact that people were offended and quite frankly frightened to use this forum simply because another poster couldnt "keep it friendly"...

we all are here...we all have to post within the rules...i asked rd to ignore me...he chose not to...so dont act like this was put on by anyone else but him...i wish the outcome would have been different...but we all have to take accountability for our actions...in life and online...

By the way, I give this thread Zero Stars!