teller said:

Does anybody really believe this?

jessyMD32781 said:

Jessy, you rock!

bkw said:

as do you!

All I know is the next time someone invites me to a private party, it better be for sex!!

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

live and learn. and then go to sex parties.

althom said:

Moving elsewhere probably.

.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 15:36:52 PST 2004 by Marrk]

Marrk said:

My thoughts exactly!

Where would you draw the line Teller? You said it got pretty ugly in spots and it did, as we all know. You also state that you didn't condone some of the content, yet you overlooked it, allowed it to remain as the host. Where do you draw the distinction between not condoning something and allowing it to continue on your Web site? It was your baby, so to speak!

This will be an ongoing feature.

Lie number 1: That this was an experiment in free speech, that the site was "unmoderated."

The site was moderated on the most fundamental and offensive level: people's presence on this "open forum" was rigidly and ideologically "moderated," so that there would be only like-minded individuals present as the "kinks" were being worked out. You allowed curse-words, big whoop, that's hardly a clarion call for free-speech.

And this was not a private forum or email correspondence or whatever. It was on a public message board. You typically evade the most substantial charge by turning this into an issue of "beta-testing."

Speech in this situation was anything but free because it was not required to engage in argument or debate. It was not forced to think of the consequences of this speech or any other possible reactions than laughter. Anyone who doesn't agree that it is funny is called self-righteous. This is comedy drained of intelligence, which I agree is a hallmark of IceNine's posting style.

As site designer and person who decided who would and would not be invited, this particular fault lies entirley at your feet teller, not with any of those who perhaps innocently signed up as a result of an invitation and who were not aware of the ideological vetting process they were subject to.

2the9s said:

Now, that's exactly, exactly what I have wanted to say about Icenines claims to freedom of speech FOR OVER A YEAR when really bashing others, but I've not known how to express myself. Thank you 2the9s. Brilliantly said.

teller said:

btw, this is a pretty fucking hysterical statement coming from a guy with a skeleton fetish.

i'm on this site a lot and i can still say:

y'all need a hobby!

Well, Chris Rock can pull it off because he also laughs at his own origins/group/race. Straight white male humor should also be about straight white males if you venture into race/sexual orientation "jokes". And from what I've seen, there wasn't a whole lot of that. So-called subsersive humor, to be truly subsersive, must raise above the clichés. Otherwise, it's just a couple of straight white guys laughing at the same old groups bigots joke about. I don't think that's very edgy.

Aerogram said:

You should have seen me and Supa flirting. What the Uptown Reporter missed was all the love.

Lleena said:

I don't know Lleena. I once had a party where two of my best friends met for the first time and absolutely HATED each other. Days later they had nothing but evil, vile, shit to say about the other. I loved them both. I accepted it. Such is life.

I saw Ice tear into you once--it broke my heart. But I think both of you are terrific in your own unique ways. I refuse to choose sides.

Just because it was a forum instead of email or a party doesn't make much difference to me. It's all social behavior, and I won't apologize for loving You and IceNine at the same time.

I got high on people using my software and lost my perspective--I enabled some org-attacking stuff directly--I know I fucked up in that respect.

2the9s said:

That's the first meaningful thing you've said in months.

Yep...who I chose was a sort of "moderation." But I couldn't invite you--you'd squeal.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I'll always have more spankings for you, honey.

Marrk said:

I have lots of common sense. Unfortunately, it exists entirely within my wife.

The "I hate spades" thread was about shovels. The "I hate coons" thread was about raccoons. Etc, etc, etc. IceNine used to pull this "PSYCHE!" thread shit all the time. Comedy!

But the Uptown Reporter thought it would be fun to lie to you instead. Whoever that is, for someone who went to the trouble to dig through all the archives and find only the worst possible crap, they somehow managed to omit the punchline.

Extremely dishonest move, whoever you are...I'm not impressed...but the herd is impressed, so you're a star.

teller said:

i'm sorry, i don't find advocating the dragging deaths of people real or theoritcal at all funny. that's what really offended me personally more than anything else. the joke thread was disgusting and offensive, but yes, jokes.

but there is no way i can find advocating the murder of people, specifically three people of color (C, RD, and Pej) at all even mildly humorous.

You sited South Park and the Family Guy, and I think both of those are genius envelops pushing social commentary shows, but even they would not ever make jokes about dragging people of color behind moving vehicles and leaving their remains in front of a KKK meeting.



about the usual aaron shit? not really. i am pretty damn used to it. it actually made me laugh because aaron seems to have convinced himself he has this magic power over me to make me cry, and even the people there were generally telling him he was nuts.

however, i was very offended by his vile AIDS comment. do i think people who are HIV positive or living with AIDS should be martyred and free from comment about it? absolutely not. but i think it was a truly despicably low blow, and there is no way i can see it as comedy or schtick.



well, thank you for your apology, it actually does mean something to me. but i don't see the comments i mentioned as comedy, nor will i ever.






.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 19:47:14 PST 2004 by cborgman]

jessyMD32781 said:

Yeah, I think you've got me there. Oh well...

My wife calls my adopted hispanic brother a "spic" all the time. And he calls her a "redneck" and teases her about incest being in her lineage all the time...stereotypes...our current goal is to get him to call her a "bitch" one day. We're a hard-core family that enjoys a good low-brow bit of fun. And we all love each other. Very much. We don't have those hang-ups and eggshells.

One the comic genius end of things, IceNine's thread: They call me 'The Fucker.' I know none of you people get the humor, and wouldn't consider it to be at Chris Rock's level, but for me, it was the funniest shit I've heard all week. Pure gold. Call me weird.

teller said:

I almost had bella out of the picture!!! Damnit...Just one more day!

teller said:

Good for you if there was some of that, but my comments are more about the perils of "controversial", "edgy" race/sexual orientation humor. It takes a tightrope artist to make it work if it deserves to work at all. Icenine is more cannonball than tightrope, whatever one thinks of his posting style.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 19:46:43 PST 2004 by Aerogram]

FWIW, I didn't think the AIDS bit was funny either.

Aerogram said:

I'll take the cannon-ball, thank you very much. I love it--break the rules! Be an equal opportunity offender! But that's me.

Actually, I suspect a lot of people find that stuff funny--they're just not allowed to admit it in public.

teller said:

and the stuff about C, RD, and Pej being dragged to death?

teller said:

The double entendre thing is done here all the time. I'm so retarded I thought the Spades thread was about the card game and went in to explain how to play it

Everyone is free to make their judgements about any and everyone involved. Aarron, Ice, Chemmie...gee wonder what they'd have to say. The same thing they said here, just not so subtle. I aint defending them so drop the gloves right there please. I don't like that kind of fucked up humor but they do. Hey

I get why this is tinged with such outrage. the dragging and AIDS and all that, those aint pretty subjects. They're hurtful and full of incredible pain. I am sorry for anyone who got hurt because of that shit and hope they can move beyond it and realize that they really don't care what those people think anyway. Believe me, I'm not minimizing, just adding my thoughts...

cborgman said:

Eh...I can't speak for Ice, but I think he really hates those guys. That was one of those times that I looked the other way. Well, maybe I chimed in and vented once or twice when he was bitching about RD, just because RD pisses me off too sometimes, but I didn't find the outright hatred funny, no. It's close to the edge.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

the threads in question were jokes, yes, but disgusting and extremely offensive. i hold those in the same regard as the offensive joke thread.

I am extremly disinterested in anything any of the three have to say on the matter. chemmie orgnoted me, and i could not bring myself to read it. aaron posted a very half-hearted apology about the AIDS comment, then continued right on attacking. he did not apologize for the gay slurs, because no one called those into question, indicating to me that his apology was false. he seemed only to be sorry for being caught, and sorry that he lost friends over the matter.



as i said before, i have moved beyond it to some extent, and will continue to do so, but i feel that labeling such extremist comments as comedy is a softshoe around the real issues.







.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 20:04:05 PST 2004 by cborgman]

teller said:

Sorry...don't mind me...just don't want you to pussy out and delete this after the airplane glue wears off.

Carry on...